Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Wanderer78

Shefwedfan wrote:

Either not a great trait for a so called potential Taoiseach

She ll never be Taoiseach, sf may never be in government

Nitrogan wrote:

Every country has them unfortunately. Next time someone's going on about how great our education system is take a look at how many people voted for SF in the last election. That's a damning failure of the system, especially as we don't hold back in calling Americans thick for voting for Trump.

I gave sf a strong vote, and I believe I've something upstairs, I will agree though, our educational system has serious problems, but it's probably not the worst in the world. It's understandable why many Americans voted for trump, and will vote for him again, possibly/probably re electing him

Shefwedfan

Nitrogan wrote: »

The US has Trump fans, the UK has Brexiters and Ireland has Sinn Feiners.

Every country has them unfortunately. Next time someone's going on about how great our education system is take a look at how many people voted for SF in the last election. That's a damning failure of the system, especially as we don't hold back in calling Americans thick for voting for Trump.

The problem is the Trump type voter are now outnumbering the rest of us, then it will be a mess

Wanderer78

Shefwedfan wrote:

The problem is the Trump type voter are now outnumbering the rest of us, then it will be a mess

The American political mess is slightly different than ours, don't worry about it, we probably won't experience it here, ffg are well in control, possibly indefinitely

Yurt2

Nitrogan wrote: »

The US has Trump fans, the UK has Brexiters and Ireland has Sinn Feiners.

Every country has them unfortunately. Next time someone's going on about how great our education system is take a look at how many people voted for SF in the last election. That's a damning failure of the system, especially as we don't hold back in calling Americans thick for voting for Trump.

With some of the mouthbreathing guff coming out of the traditional party loyalists (particularly the you know whos) in this thread and others, I wouldn't be so sure about that assertion. Many of them are operating off a thin veneer of respecitibilty and you don't have to dig too far before you get some kooky outbursts about who they think should be in charge and why.

TheCitizen

aido79 wrote: »

It's a big step into reality going from the opposition benches into government as it is very easy to criticise a government when you're not the one making the hard decisions and getting the figures to add up. Big ideas always need to be followed up with details and I most parties in opposition are guilty of criticising the party in power when they know they themselves wouldn't do much better if they were given the opportunity to have a go at making things better

One thing is for sure though. Sinn Fein's manifesto has gotten a severe dose of coronavirus and is currently somewhere between life support and the cemetery. Their promises are worth nothing after this is over.

It’s not just about money though. There’s also political intent political will involved. You have to take on vested interests to change and as I said one thing is for sure and that is that Fine Gael won’t be doing that. As Micheál Martin said pre election “they’ve been in there too long etc.. it’s time for a change etc.”

He said he wouldn’t go in with SF either but then SF ended up on one seat less and a bigger vote share than FF and Micheál and his buddies decided it’s better to put FG back in as FF will be the slightly larger partner in an arrangement with them. It’s politics but not necessarily “in the National interest”.

TheCitizen

Nitrogan wrote: »

The US has Trump fans, the UK has Brexiters and Ireland has Sinn Feiners.

Every country has them unfortunately. Next time someone's going on about how great our education system is take a look at how many people voted for SF in the last election. That's a damning failure of the system, especially as we don't hold back in calling Americans thick for voting for Trump.

Ah, someone’s been listening to Pat Kenny. Pat and other MSM commentators like Miriam FF O’Callaghan tried that line. SF are many things; they are not reactionary, race card playing right wingers like Trump and the Brexiteers. If you’re looking for a home for that type of politics you’ll be more at home in Fine Gael, see Phil Hogan or Charlie Tanaghan’s dad for examples.

TheCitizen

Wanderer78 wrote: »

The American political mess is slightly different than ours, don't worry about it, we probably won't experience it here, ffg are well in control, possibly indefinitely

LOL so anyone but FFG is the Trump option. The old self preservation society (FFG) are hanging in there for now right enough. Their grip on Irish society and use and abuse of it for their own ends is slipping though.

Rows Grower

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/doherty-seeks-central-bank-assurance-on-customer-protection-991104.html

Runaways

Trying to throw SF who have an open border pro immigrant stance last I checked, and their definition of nationalism in with brexiters and trump cultists definition of nationalism, really shows you know nothing at all about anything of each, Nitrogan.

That’s a really laughable and ignorant tabloid take and even the worst of our gutter press didn’t go there. Despite that take being espoused by some far right talking heads in the UK who tried and failed to make the connection stick.

Didn’t even read much of it from the more feeble minded regulars here.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

It’s not just about money though. There’s also political intent political will involved. You have to take on vested interests to change and as I said one thing is for sure and that is that Fine Gael won’t be doing that. As Micheál Martin said pre election “they’ve been in there too long etc.. it’s time for a change etc.”

He said he wouldn’t go in with SF either but then SF ended up on one seat less and a bigger vote share than FF and Micheál and his buddies decided it’s better to put FG back in as FF will be the slightly larger partner in an arrangement with them. It’s politics but not necessarily “in the National interest”.

You couldn't possibly look at how SF have "governed" in NI and think they are who we need to run this country, at least, not rationally.

NI remains one of the poorest places in Europe, it has high state dependant employment, a homelessness crisis and (most seriously imo) a suicide crisis.

SF are not to blame for all of the above, but they have done sweet **** all to solve any of the above. If anything, when faced with Brexit and the suicide crisis they collapsed the assembly. Bizarre. Genuinely bizarre.

Runaways

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You couldn't possibly look at how SF have "governed" in NI and think they are who we need to run this country, at least, not rationally.

NI remains one of the poorest places in Europe, it has high state dependant employment, a homelessness crisis and (most seriously imo) a suicide crisis.

SF are not to blame for all of the above, but they have done sweet **** all to solve any of the above. If anything, when faced with Brexit and the suicide crisis they collapsed the assembly. Bizarre. Genuinely bizarre.

DUP hold the reins in NI in reality. We shouldn’t really be using SF up north as any gauge as it’s not comparable to here.

is_that_so

Rows Grower wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/doherty-seeks-central-bank-assurance-on-customer-protection-991104.html

To his credit Pearse is singlehandedly trying to resurrect the art of letter writing!

Yurt2

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The problem is the Trump type voter are now outnumbering the rest of us, then it will be a mess

If we were to do a blind taste test on the posts on this thread, you and fellow travelers would test positive for strong symptoms of Trumpism.

Runaways

Runaways wrote: »

DUP hold the reins in NI in reality. We shouldn’t really be using SF up north as any gauge as it’s not comparable to here.

Ah would you stop, there's always someone else for SF to blame.

DUP are bad bastards too, and lousy at actual governance, but there is a pair of them in it.

Sorry, just to edit, the idea we should ignore their performance in NI is bizarre. We can see there exactly what SF do in power, and it's nothing much.

TheCitizen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You couldn't possibly look at how SF have "governed" in NI and think they are who we need to run this country, at least, not rationally.

NI remains one of the poorest places in Europe, it has high state dependant employment, a homelessness crisis and (most seriously imo) a suicide crisis.

SF are not to blame for all of the above, but they have done sweet **** all to solve any of the above. If anything, when faced with Brexit and the suicide crisis they collapsed the assembly. Bizarre. Genuinely bizarre.

They didn’t collapse the Assembly over Brexit, they collapsed it over a corruption scam involving the DUP. It gets used then as a stick to beat them with by FFGers down here. SF were powerless to stop Brexit. What’s this about a suicide crisis? Anyway Norn Ireland is a jumped up county council and a strange power sharing one at that, governing down here is different. Apples and oranges.

Runaways

is_that_so wrote: »

To his credit Pearse is singlehandedly trying to resurrect the art of letter writing!

I’m seeing this loads the last few days! Made me wish I had a fountain pen and loads of posh paper

Runaways

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah would you stop, there's always someone else for SF to blame.

DUP are bad bastards too, and lousy at actual governance, but there is a pair of them in it.

Sorry, just to edit, the idea we should ignore their performance in NI is bizarre. We can see there exactly what SF do in power, and it's nothing much.

Well no. We’ve a different set of SF tds here. I don’t know much about even MON but she’s capable and has somehow managed to work with Arlene. Which is really no small feat.

MLMD and PD are far more capable than their NI colleagues I’d imagine.


Ps I don’t know if true but the suicide numbers in NI lean far more into the unionist communities. Not really sure what any party up there could do to stop that. It’s awful though.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

They didn’t collapse the Assembly over Brexit, they collapsed it over a corruption scam involving the DUP. It gets used then as a stick to beat them with by FFGers down here. SF were powerless to stop Brexit. What’s this about a suicide crisis? Anyway Norn Ireland is a jumped up county council and a strange power sharing one at that, governing down here is different. Apples and oranges.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/01/world/europe/northern-ireland-suicide.html

NI has one of the highest rates of suicide in the world, and it's getting worse. I am continually disappointed how little coverage it gets (though I know there's restrictions on reporting such things) in Ireland generally.

That article makes for depressing reading btw, by most metrics SF/DUP have been a disaster for NI.

Wanderer78

TheCitizen wrote: »

LOL so anyone but FFG is the Trump option. The old self preservation society (FFG) are hanging in there for now right enough. Their grip on Irish society and use and abuse of it for their own ends is slipping though.

unfortunately our political system is stuck, with no real alternatives capable of governance, ffg is far from the trump option, theres major differences between both, intelligence being one, compassion and understanding also from ffg compared to trump. i disagree with the slip, ffg are very much in control, and i expect them to come off very well after this virus, particularly fg, and on we go. i can never see alternatives such as sf being ever able to lead a government largely due to the power play by both ffg, they ll never give that up

Runaways

Runaways wrote: »

Well no. We’ve a different set of SF tds here. I don’t know much about even MON but she’s capable and has somehow managed to work with Arlene. Which is really no small feat.

MLMD and PD are far more capable than their NI colleagues I’d imagine.


Ps I don’t know if true but the suicide numbers in NI lean far more into the unionist communities. Not really sure what any party up there could do to stop that. It’s awful though.

Genuine question, what tangible proof are you basing that opinion on.

The rational thing is to assume they are equally inept either side of the border, imo.

overkill602

Runaways wrote: »

Well no. We’ve a different set of SF tds here. I don’t know much about even MON but she’s capable and has somehow managed to work with Arlene. Which is really no small feat.

MLMD and PD are far more capable than their NI colleagues I’d imagine.


Ps I don’t know if true but the suicide numbers in NI lean far more into the unionist communities. Not really sure what any party up there could do to stop that. It’s awful though.

Voilet the rent defaulter and the up the ra clown... yeah it the headers behind PD people are wondering about.

The electorate in general have elected or reelected some real gems to be fair a few examples the green salad man Ryan, hand in the till Lowry and kilarnery chip van plant hire gombeens.

Shefwedfan

Yurt! wrote: »

If we were to do a blind taste test on the posts on this thread, you and fellow travelers would test positive for strong symptoms of Trumpism.

Ahh touched a nerve....a traveler as you call them as some sort of insult, would have better manners than I have seen from any of your posts

Shefwedfan

Runaways wrote: »

DUP hold the reins in NI in reality. We shouldn’t really be using SF up north as any gauge as it’s not comparable to here.

As always, it’s someone else’s fault

DUP and SF are power sharing, so how is it DUP holding the reins?

SF don’t want people to use the North as a reference cause it shows they lack any sort of negotiating power!! Shown in the North and now repeated in Republic

TheCitizen

Wanderer78 wrote: »

unfortunately our political system is stuck, with no real alternatives capable of governance, ffg is far from the trump option, theres major differences between both, intelligence being one, compassion and understanding also from ffg compared to trump. i disagree with the slip, ffg are very much in control, and i expect them to come off very well after this virus, particularly fg, and on we go. i can never see alternatives such as sf being ever able to lead a government largely due to the power play by both ffg, they ll never give that up

Their (FFG) cumulative vote share has dwindled progressively over several decades to the point where they're now getting into government together and they don't even have the numbers to form a government without add ons from others.

So they've given up on the hold they had when they were always either leaders of government or leaders of the opposition. They're losing their grip alright, make no mistake about it.

Wanderer78

TheCitizen wrote: »

Their (FFG) cumulative vote share has dwindled progressively over several decades to the point where they're now getting into government together and they don't even have the numbers to form a government without add ons from others.

So they've given up on the hold they had when they were always either leaders of government or leaders of the opposition. They're losing their grip alright, make no mistake about it.

theyre still in full control, of course you re right on some points, but expect this 'partnership' to carry on for a long time, possibly indefinitely, they ll do everything in their power to remain in power, blocking alternatives. the only thing the alternatives can do is influence ffg, which is currently what is happening, and is somewhat working

FrancieBrady

Shefwedfan wrote: »

As always, it’s someone else’s fault

DUP and SF are power sharing, so how is it DUP holding the reins?

SF don’t want people to use the North as a reference cause it shows they lack any sort of negotiating power!! Shown in the North and now repeated in Republic

There are plenty of resources out there to study how things work (or don't work) in the north.

BTW, they negotiated a deal to get government back up and running OVER 2 years ago. While doing your research, have a look at who walked away from that and why. And who tacitly endorsed those that walked away by bringing them into a 'deal' in Westminster.

Runaways

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Genuine question, what tangible proof are you basing that opinion on.

The rational thing is to assume they are equally inept either side of the border, imo.

Well we’re not locked into orange v green and the massive divides for a start.
And your analogy only works if we also say Leo is equally as inept as Maria Bailey.
Just cos you think one member of a party is crap means they all must crap on that party be isnt really how this works I’m afraid.

TheCitizen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

As always, it’s someone else’s fault

DUP and SF are power sharing, so how is it DUP holding the reins?

SF don’t want people to use the North as a reference cause it shows they lack any sort of negotiating power!! Shown in the North and now repeated in Republic

Who's fault it it that the health service is in worse nick than ever in this country after two terms of FG lead governments despite a few years of economic prosperity and many promises when they were in opposition prior to that that they would reform the public health system?

Shefwedfan

One term of SF in power and let’s see how much their support dwindles. That’s the issue now and why I would prefer to throw SF into power now

SF and seemingly their supports are great at throwing mud at opposite but not too great at doing anything

As I said al along, stick them in now, give it 12 months and apart from the social welfare crew the entire country will be kicking them to touch. Then we won’t have to listen to page after page of thread like this with all talk and no action

Problem is Mary Lou couldn’t negotiate her way out of a wet paper bag so she will not get anyone to join up with them, so rest of us will have to listen to years of this s**t about “ well SF would have done xyz”, God help us all....

Rows Grower

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ahh touched a nerve....a traveler as you call them as some sort of insult, would have better manners than I have seen from any of your posts

This post reminds me of a quote from Abraham Lincoln "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."