Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Shefwedfan

TheCitizen wrote: »

Who's fault it it that the health service is in worse nick than ever in this country after two terms of FG lead governments despite a few years of economic prosperity and many promises when they were in opposition prior to that that they would reform the public health system?

Nice goal post move....we are talking about SF in North, instead of firing mud at a party in South, maybe explain how SF have managed to completely f**k it up so bad in north they had no government for 3 years

Runaways

Shefwedfan wrote: »

As always, it’s someone else’s fault

DUP and SF are power sharing, so how is it DUP holding the reins?

SF don’t want people to use the North as a reference cause it shows they lack any sort of negotiating power!! Shown in the North and now repeated in Republic

Only yesterday MON said an all island approach on covid was coming.

But they needed 5 ministers an only had three.


Guess who they needed support from and who wouldn’t agree to it?

The dup

all about the mane

TheCitizen wrote: »

Who's fault it it that the health service is in worse nick than ever in this country after two terms of FG lead governments despite a few years of economic prosperity and many promises when they were in opposition prior to that that they would reform the public health system?

When SF get into power, they can tackle the health system. It’ll be sorted in no time

Shefwedfan

Runaways wrote: »

Only yesterday MON said an all island approach on covid was coming.

But they needed 5 ministers an only had three.


Guess who they needed support from and who wouldn’t agree to it?

The dup

Again, power sharing

Instead of talking to press the idea would be to talk to the DUP, only a gob**t negotiated via the press. That’s what SF do, same with Mary Lou shouting about FF, instead of talking to FF she was shouting to RTÉ

Your point is a negative, not a positive. SF have learned nothing from shutting down the North assembly for 3 years, the way they are going it will be closed down again soon

TheCitizen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

One term of SF in power and let’s see how much their support dwindles. That’s the issue now and why I would prefer to throw SF into power now

SF and seemingly their supports are great at throwing mud at opposite but not too great at doing anything

As I said al along, stick them in now, give it 12 months and apart from the social welfare crew the entire country will be kicking them to touch. Then we won’t have to listen to page after page of thread like this with all talk and no action

Problem is Mary Lou couldn’t negotiate her way out of a wet paper bag so she will not get anyone to join up with them, so rest of us will have to listen to years of this s**t about “ well SF would have done xyz”, God help us all....

Sure sure here's the "stick them into power and see how they do" shtick again, but in reality the party you voted for have no intention of doing any such thing.

That insufferable bollocks Patrick O'Donavon was out with that gibberish post election saying "We (FG) lost the election ...it's up to SF to form a government etc..." knowing full well that SF needed to go in with either FF or FG if they were to form a government and him knowing full well that FF would not go in with SF as equal partners and FG sure as hell wouldn't go in with SF as junior partners. O'Donovan wasn't the only one coming out with that gibberish, you're talking the same rot now. When push came to shove and despite in their own terms after "losing the election"; FG will cling to the reigns of power.

FrancieBrady

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Again, power sharing

Instead of talking to press the idea would be to talk to the DUP, only a gob**t negotiated via the press. That’s what SF do, same with Mary Lou shouting about FF, instead of talking to FF she was shouting to RTÉ

Your point is a negative, not a positive. SF have learned nothing from shutting down the North assembly for 3 years, the way they are going it will be closed down again soon

You just keep digging and digging that hole.

LOOK at who negotiated a deal with the DUp. LOOK at who walked away from that deal and LOOK at who endorsed that walk away.

LOOK at how the deal was eventually done when the DUP were finished with by the people who had endorsed them previously.

Of course you won't look at that and will continue to do the digging.

TheCitizen

all about the mane wrote: »

When SF get into power, they can tackle the health system. It’ll be sorted in no time

In No time you say? Nah, It will take a bit of time to take on such a task.

FFG have had roughly 98 years between them to tackle that issue and have failed time and time and time again.

Hamsterchops

Runaways wrote: »

Only yesterday MON said an all island approach on covid was coming.

But they needed 5 ministers an only had three.

Guess who they needed support from and who wouldn’t agree to it? Would an 'all island' approach mean shutting down air travel (& sea travel) between the two islands? In other words, would Dublin be feeding Northern Ireland?

The dup

Would an 'all island' approach mean shutting down air travel (and sea travel) between the two islands?

In other words, would Dublin be feeding & supporting Northern Ireland, because if so, then you can well appreciate why the DUP would say NO to shutting off NI from the rest of the UK 'Britain'.

Ballso

TheCitizen wrote: »

In No time you say? Nah, It will take a bit of time to take on such a task.

FFG have had roughly 98 years between them to tackle that issue and have failed time and time and time again.

I can see SF taking on the unions and eliminating the inefficiencies causing the problems in our health service alright. Hah.

FrancieBrady

Ballso wrote: »

I can see SF taking on the unions and eliminating the inefficiencies causing the problems in our health service alright. Hah.

So you reckon the problem is the 'unions'.

Why haven't FF and FG taken them on if the problem is so obvious?

Ballso

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So you reckon the problem is the 'unions'.

Why haven't FF and FG taken them on if the problem is so obvious?

It's politically impossible to take them on. You are over in another thread yellow-vesting about resourcing in the middle of a global pandemic ffs. Imagine the perception of scaling back numbers in the HSE from the hysterical twitter mob in normal times, it would be political suicide for any party. If the "neo-liberal" wing of our political establishment can't sort out the inefficiencies in health there isn't a hope in hell populists like SF can.

TheCitizen

Wanderer78 wrote: »

theyre still in full control, of course you re right on some points, but expect this 'partnership' to carry on for a long time, possibly indefinitely, they ll do everything in their power to remain in power, blocking alternatives. the only thing the alternatives can do is influence ffg, which is currently what is happening, and is somewhat working

It's for the good anyway that the cosy FFG cartel is under threat via the rise of Sinn Féin. They'll (FFG) have to up their game if they want to cling on to power.

At some point one of Tweedledee or Tweedledum might outsprint the other and the current carry on of one of them taking turns being the senior partner may come to an end.

TheCitizen

Ballso wrote: »

It's politically impossible to take them on. You are over in another thread yellow-vesting about resourcing in the middle of a global pandemic ffs. Imagine the perception of scaling back numbers in the HSE from the hysterical twitter mob in normal times, it would be political suicide for any party. If the "neo-liberal" wing of our political establishment can't sort out the inefficiencies in health there isn't a hope in hell populists like SF can.

Nope. The issue with the health system is the vested interests are buddies with FFG. The consultants that rub shoulders with FGers and FFers down the golf club and that send their kids to the same schools.

FG and FF don't have the political will to take them on, they don't even want to take them on. They (FFG) feel beholding to them and the others in society that are in the top wage brackets, the builders etc. Health and Housing the two biggest issues in Ireland and we're going to have a government lead by two parties that thus far have failed time and time and time again to tackle the vested interests in both sectors and initiate real reform.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

Who's fault it it that the health service is in worse nick than ever in this country after two terms of FG lead governments despite a few years of economic prosperity and many promises when they were in opposition prior to that that they would reform the public health system?

Even prior to Covid, the health system was not in the worst nick we've ever had in this country.

If you take the time to read about the health system prior to the mid 1990's it was way, way (like comprehensively) worse. Don't let rose tinted glasses fool you.

Wanderer78

TheCitizen wrote: »

It's for the good anyway that the cosy FFG cartel is under threat via the rise of Sinn Féin. They'll (FFG) have to up their game if they want to cling on to power.

At some point one of Tweedledee or Tweedledum might outsprint the other and the current carry on of one of them taking turns being the senior partner may come to an end.

i will agree its a good idea both of them are being put under pressure from the likes of sf, but never underestimate ffg's real power

Runaways

Runaways wrote: »

Well we’re not locked into orange v green and the massive divides for a start.
And your analogy only works if we also say Leo is equally as inept as Maria Bailey.
Just cos you think one member of a party is crap means they all must crap on that party be isnt really how this works I’m afraid.

I don't think one member of SF is crap, I think as a governing party in NI they have been inept (except maybe on education). Most the metrics support my view, tbf.

storker

TheCitizen wrote: »

Nope. The issue with the health system is the vested interests are buddies with FFG. The consultants that rub shoulders with FGers and FFers down the golf club and that send their kids to the same schools.

I think the problem is these guys and the unions.

FrancieBrady

Ballso wrote: »

It's politically impossible to take them on. .

It 'has' been...is what you mean.

Why? Because we have a power swap in this country. It is not in the interests of FG or FF to fix anything if it damages them. Hence so much disaster in public services.

As the crisis shows, if the will is there...etc etc.

jh79

TheCitizen wrote: »

Nope. The issue with the health system is the vested interests are buddies with FFG. The consultants that rub shoulders with FGers and FFers down the golf club and that send their kids to the same schools.

FG and FF don't have the political will to take them on, they don't even want to take them on. They (FFG) feel beholding to them and the others in society that are in the top wage brackets, the builders etc. Health and Housing the two biggest issues in Ireland and we're going to have a government lead by two parties that thus far have failed time and time and time again to tackle the vested interests in both sectors and initiate real reform.

A quick google says we spend 500 million pa on consultant wages from a total of 6500 million pa across the whole health service.

The maths don't really work out for the populist "elites should pay for everything" SF approach.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It 'has' been...is what you mean.

Why? Because we have a power swap in this country. It is not in the interests of FG or FF to fix anything if it damages them. Hence so much disaster in public services.

As the crisis shows, if the will is there...etc etc.

You're not suggesting that SF would take them on? It's not in their DNA. They'll cut wages at the top end and increase the bottom ultimately leading to a bigger PS wage bill.

FrancieBrady

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i will agree its a good idea both of them are being put under pressure from the likes of sf, but never underestimate ffg's real power

It is what the 'system' here has been crying out for.

You will see real change now that a 3rd party with a different ideology has emerged.

I'm not talking about what pretends to be a Labour party btw.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

You're not suggesting that SF would take them on? It's not in their DNA. They'll cut wages at the top end and increase the bottom ultimately leading to a bigger PS wage bill.

I was replying to a poster who thinks the problem is just Unions...I don't think it is.

It is a combination of vested interests and unions.
The unions have only dug themselves in to protect against those vested interests.

So the solution is in finding balances where everyone's interest is catered for.

Are SF capable of that...I don't know, but they are entitled to have a go as much as FF and FG have failed to step up to the plate on it.

Ballso

Nobody said the problems are "just unions".

Some problems are deeply complex, difficult to resolve, cannot be reduced to easily digestible sound bites and create problems elsewhere when resolved. Resources are finite and hard decisions sometimes need to be taken on where to deploy them. This is a problem all of us who work in industry or professional services encounter every day.

Sinn Fein supporters will learn this fairly rapidly if their party ever gets into government. Must be such fun to be in government or the civil service having half wits screaming at you about how everything is wrong and is so easy to fix if only you weren't so evil. :rolleyes:

Randy Archer

Eamonn8448 wrote: »

my grandfather is long dead and he played his part too , one day lad smart arses like you shall get their just deserts , its a small island !

It sure is a small island, commando , you have just confirmed the justification for the continuation of the Special Criminal Court with the horse manure that you just uttered there .

Your boys and their bullets failed , you’d have thought after 40 years it would be enough time for ye to cop on ��. I dare you make up such threats in public within ear shot of the Gardai. Typical barstool Republican nonsense

Oh, and this self entitled brat thing ...lol, not sure such a description is apt against those who pay income tax at the 40% rate , something few Shinners would know about

FrancieBrady

Ballso wrote: »

Nobody said the problems are "just unions".

You did.

Ballso wrote:

I can see SF taking on the unions and eliminating the inefficiencies causing the problems in our health service alright.

Stop trying to row away from what you clearly said is 'causing the problems in our health services'

Jesus, you guys are unreal!

TheCitizen

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i will agree its a good idea both of them are being put under pressure from the likes of sf, but never underestimate ffg's real power

Never underestimate the power of the Dark Side. LOL. When the blueshirts and the cronies in the Galway Tent come together.

Randy Archer

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah would you stop, there's always someone else for SF to blame.

DUP are bad bastards too, and lousy at actual governance, but there is a pair of them in it.

Sorry, just to edit, the idea we should ignore their performance in NI is bizarre. We can see there exactly what SF do in power, and it's nothing much.

Nice to see SF doing partitionism when it suits them

Imagine closing down Parliament over a language package that won’t be used by anyone and will cost way too much on already limited funds. Whatever about closing down due to Sharleene and Cash for ash but nope, close down over a proxy Irish language act ...

TheCitizen

jh79 wrote: »

A quick google says we spend 500 million pa on consultant wages from a total of 6500 million pa across the whole health service.

The maths don't really work out for the populist "elites should pay for everything" SF approach.

The problem with the health service isn’t money, it’s the vested interests (not just the consultants btw) and also the insurance companies have a stake in it as well. FFG won’t take them on, some of them are pals of theirs

Runaways

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Again, power sharing

Instead of talking to press the idea would be to talk to the DUP, only a gob**t negotiated via the press. That’s what SF do, same with Mary Lou shouting about FF, instead of talking to FF she was shouting to RTÉ

Your point is a negative, not a positive. SF have learned nothing from shutting down the North assembly for 3 years, the way they are going it will be closed down again soon

So you’re now aware it’s power sharing

Earlier you were blaming SF for all of it.

Sorry but Theres a few different parties and problems at the table.

So stop with the SF down here analogies.

Randy Archer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

One term of SF in power and let’s see how much their support dwindles. That’s the issue now and why I would prefer to throw SF into power now

SF and seemingly their supports are great at throwing mud at opposite but not too great at doing anything

As I said al along, stick them in now, give it 12 months and apart from the social welfare crew the entire country will be kicking them to touch. Then we won’t have to listen to page after page of thread like this with all talk and no action

Problem is Mary Lou couldn’t negotiate her way out of a wet paper bag so she will not get anyone to join up with them, so rest of us will have to listen to years of this s**t about “ well SF would have done xyz”, God help us all....

Local elections of 2014 is a decent start. Sf dominated many county councils such as Dublin City Council between 2024-2019 ...look how they failed in the 2019 local elections ..