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Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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    #1322
    TheCitizen
    Registered Users Posts: 9,528 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Ok, maybe I am tying it wrong....


    I didn't ask about FF and FG who have clear issues with SF. Of all the other parties who have joined with them?

    The other parties would have weighed in if FF or FG agreed to a deal with SF. There was no point otherwise.

    Of the other parties I think only Labour were the ones coming out with that old "we won't do business with SF" schtick.

    Anyway the deals been done to suit FF primarily, they will be the senior partner, and there's the quid pro quo that FF backed FG in the Confidence and Supply government. So FG owe them one and FG will also take the gamble that as a "party of government" perhaps they can recover some ground while keeping some of their Ministerial gigs etc.


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    #1323
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TheCitizen wrote: »
    I don't think there will be another election anytime soon. If FFG cobble together a government as seems likely they will stick it out for a full term. They know they are putting themselves in a vulnerable position as it is re their traditional hold on Irish politics by going into government officially together. If they pull the plug early in the lifetime of the next government that would only make things worse.

    They havnt the numbers.....they need 8 to 10 helpers/indo to govern and 12-14 to safely govern


    Their complete arrongance in excluding greens in coalition talks has come back to haunt em


    They've spent last month sneering at the shinners for failing utterly to form a government and now are caught with no pants on as the tide has gone out on em....there is a beautiful irony in all this



    Unless they go for a national government,there will be an election,but both varadkar and martin lack capacity to carry their party,neither are as popular among rank-and-file members that i know,both locally and nationally, as its protrayed...alot of internal strife within FF in particular


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    #1324
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Rodney Bathgate wrote: »
    20% Francie? Are you massaging that figure?

    Apologies...20.9% to be exact.

    SF have 22.8% to be precise in NI.


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    #1325
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    TheCitizen wrote: »
    The other parties would have weighed in if FF or FG agreed to a deal with SF. There was no point otherwise.

    Of the other parties I think only Labour were the ones coming out with that old "we won't do business with SF" schtick.

    Anyway the deals been done to suit FF primarily, they will be the senior partner, and there's the quid pro quo that FF backed FG in the Confidence and Supply government. So FG owe them one and FG will also take the gamble that as a "party of government" perhaps they can recover some ground while keeping some of their Ministerial gigs etc.


    Ok, is it that difficult to admit that no party in Ireland wants to work with SF? PBP as far as I am aware said they would if SF bent over backwards and accepted all their terms. SO that would be a no.

    Would that not suggest to people, that the problem is with SF? and not with every other party in Ireland?

    P.S. I know I posted this before, but the SF supporters seem to ignore this minor detail and always revert back to "but but but but FF and FG"


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    #1326
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    FG have 20% of the vote here.

    With that result FG said they would go into opposition because of such a poor result. Yet you are telling us that the North thinks SF are ready for government??


    Something doesn't add up in those two statements, does it?


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    #1327
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    Shefwedfan wrote: »




    Would that not suggest to people, that the problem is with SF? and not with every other party in Ireland?

    Not really
    I think no party wants to be first or out on their own for fear of the consequences
    Those being a lashing from their own supporters and other parties
    It's not an easy conundrum


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    #1328
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Mortelaro wrote: »
    Not really
    I think no party wants to be first or out on their own for fear of the consequences
    Those being a lashing from their own supporters and other parties
    It's not an easy conundrum


    But Mary Lou was on the TV telling us all that she was talking to them. Greens, PBP, Social De etc etc


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    #1329
    TheCitizen
    Registered Users Posts: 9,528 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    Deleted User wrote: »
    They havnt the numbers.....they need 8 to 10 helpers/indo to govern and 12-14 to safely govern


    Their complete arrongance in excluding greens in coalition talks has come back to haunt em


    They've spent last month sneering at the shinners for failing utterly to form a government and now are caught with no pants on as the tide has gone out on em....there is a beautiful irony in all this



    Unless they go for a national government,there will be an election,but both varadkar and martin lack capacity to carry their party,neither are as popular among rank-and-file members that i know,both locally and nationally, as its protrayed...alot of internal strife within FF in particular
    Yes, FF in particular are in danger of splitting apart. They're not happy campers. You've got guys like O'Cuiv and rural FF members who might prefer a coalition with SF to a coalition with FG and then you've got o'Callaghan and Chambers who are scared of SF because SF will steal their clothes and they're trying to pretend that FF and SF are incompatible. Both factions see the danger of allowing SF to lead the opposition and MM is in an impossible position trying to keep them all happy.

    FF used to be The Republican Party. My old man was member, he'd be turning in his grave God rest him that they're going to go into government with The Blueshirts.

    If they go in with FG and others though as seems likely they'll have to make it work for as long as possible.


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    #1330
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    YEs but have 35 seats....seats count, not first preferences
    So why are you on about percentages?
    With that result FG said they would go into opposition because of such a poor result.
    Well if you adopt the attitude that I have...that FF and FG will speak volumes out of both sides of their mouths at the same time, then you will believe anything they might say.
    Yet you are telling us that the North thinks SF are ready for government??


    Something doesn't add up in those two statements, does it?

    What?
    Where did I say 'the North thinks SF are ready for government'...what are you on about?


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    #1331
    TheCitizen
    Registered Users Posts: 9,528 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Ok, is it that difficult to admit that no party in Ireland wants to work with SF? PBP as far as I am aware said they would if SF bent over backwards and accepted all their terms. SO that would be a no.

    Would that not suggest to people, that the problem is with SF? and not with every other party in Ireland?

    P.S. I know I posted this before, but the SF supporters seem to ignore this minor detail and always revert back to "but but but but FF and FG"

    That's the way you'll spin it but nah, not even FFG fans will actually believe it.


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    #1332
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    So what are SF doing today to try and form a government?

    Has Mary Lou picked up the phone to FF today? Has she made any attempt to meet FF (or any of the other parties) half-way, or is it all about SF?


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    #1333
    TheCitizen
    Registered Users Posts: 9,528 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    hmmm wrote: »
    So what are SF doing today to try and form a government?

    Has Mary Lou picked up the phone to FF today? Has she made any attempt to meet FF (or any of the other parties) half-way, or is it all about SF?

    You haven't been paying attention have you?


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    #1334
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    hmmm wrote: »
    So what are SF doing today to try and form a government?

    Has Mary Lou picked up the phone to FF today? Has she made any attempt to meet FF (or any of the other parties) half-way, or is it all about SF?

    why should she do that again? ff and fg made it clear they have no time for democracy and ruled SF out


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    #1335
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    maccored wrote: »
    why should she do that again? ff and fg made it clear they have no time for democracy and ruled SF out

    How have FF and FG made it clear they have no time for democracy exactly?


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    #1336
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    How have FF and FG made it clear they have no time for democracy exactly?

    because they are fit to decide they wont talk to parties that have as much as vote percentage as they themselves have. not really interested in forming a government .. just interested in playing silly arseholes


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    #1337
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,423 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    maccored wrote: »
    why should she do that again? ff and fg made it clear they have no time for democracy and ruled SF out

    She said the day of the election results FF or FG in government would be a disaster.

    So she kind of ruled them out herself.


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    #1338
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    maccored wrote: »
    because they are fit to decide they wont talk to parties that have as much as vote percentage as they themselves have. not really interest in forming a government .. just interested in playing silly arseholes

    Nothing undemocratic about that. If the Conservatives needed 7 seats to form a government and wanted to talk to SF, and SF refused, would that be anti-democratic on the part of SF?

    I don't think it would be. You?


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    #1339
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    She said the day of the election results FF or FG in government would be a disaster.

    So she kind of ruled them out herself.

    ah right. so she didnt ring MM or anything then ...... :rolleyes:


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    #1340
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Nothing undemocratic about that. If the Conservatives needed 7 seats to form a government and wanted to talk to SF, and SF refused, would that be anti-democratic on the part of SF?

    I don't think it would be. You?


    thats a bit of a silly question considering SF dont recognise WM. FF or FG cant say they are doing everything to form a government but refusing to talk to SF


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    #1341
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    maccored wrote: »
    thats a bit of a silly question considering SF dont recognise WM. FF or FG cant say they are doing everything to form a government but refusing to talk to SF

    Nothing silly about it all. By your logic it's undemocratic. Or is it only undemocratic when FF/FG do it?

    By the by, why would any Irish party want to be in government with a party that doesn't even recognise the parliament of our closest neighbour?


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    #1342
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Nothing silly about it all. By your logic it's undemocratic. Or is it only undemocratic when FF/FG do it?

    By the by, why would any Irish party want to be in government with a party that doesn't even recognise the parliament of our closest neighbour?

    Well maybe you can tell a few others on here that SF tried their best and were blocked by FF and FG - since thats what happened. Call it what you want - I call it complete ignorance and recklessness by FF and FG


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    #1343
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,273 ✭✭✭jh79


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Nothing silly about it all. By your logic it's undemocratic. Or is it only undemocratic when FF/FG do it?

    By the by, why would any Irish party want to be in government with a party that doesn't even recognise the parliament of our closest neighbour?

    British SF don't recognize it whereas Irish SF do :D


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    #1344
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    maccored wrote: »
    Well maybe you can tell a few others on here that SF tried their best and were blocked by FF and FG - since thats what happened. Call it what you want - I call it complete ignorance and recklessness by FF and FG

    You inferred that both parties were undemocratic. This is not true. Would it be reckless and ignorance if SF refused to talk to the Conservatives about forming a government?

    Or is it only ignorance and recklessness when such a thing happens to SF?


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    #1345
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    jh79 wrote: »
    British SF don't recognize it whereas Irish SF do :D

    It's farcical. Regardless I thought modern SF did recognise it, just refused to sit in it.


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    #1346
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    You inferred that both parties were undemocratic. This is not true. Would it be reckless and ignorance if SF refused to talk to the Conservatives about forming a government?

    Or is it only ignorance and recklessness when such a thing happens to SF?

    off you go - keep missing the point.


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    #1347
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    It's farcical. Regardless I thought modern SF did recognise it, just refused to sit in it.

    whats farcical about it?


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    #1348
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    maccored wrote: »
    off you go - keep missing the point.

    No point missed. I'm using your "logic". Maybe you now see how silly it is.


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    #1349
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    No point missed. I'm using your "logic". Maybe you now see how silly it is.

    i see you arent arguing the fact that SF have tried to form a government with FF and FF refuses to talk to them.


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    #1350
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    maccored wrote: »
    i see you arent arguing the fact that SF have tried to form a government with FF and FF refuses to talk to them.

    They don't have to. Would you be making the same arguments if SF did likewise with a Conservative government in Britain? I think not.


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    #1351
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    They don't have to. Would you be making the same arguments if SF did likewise with a Conservative government in Britain? I think not.

    what are you talking about?

    Its been stated SF have vanished, havent been trying to set up a govn etc etc. Ive pointed out this untruth to that line of thought.

    meantime you waffle on about the conservatives. You deserve the Whataboutery Award for that one


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