Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Sultan_of_Ping

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Eh...I quoted the relevant bit of the article, you know the bit that rubbishes what was being said here last night?


Ireland's Pharma indiustry is at capacity...it cannot produce more or gear up...we were told last night by 'pharma experts' who appeared on thread.


Is the Irish Times too 'touchy feely Irish stuff' too?

OK, let me put this in terms SF might understand - this isn't like making fertiliser bombs, you can't just get a couple of extra bags, and a few extra litres of fuel oil and few extra yokels to mix it all together.

Pharma plants may well be working at planned capacity, but it's not just a case of flicking a switch to command things to take off - production expansion is incremental and has to be planned as such......it would be dangerous to rush because the last thing we need to do now is introduce added problems such as faulty test kits, ineffectual medicines or treatments or defective devices such as ventilators.

Mortelaro

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

OK, let me put this in terms SF might understand - this isn't like making fertiliser bombs, you can't just get a couple of extra bags, and a few extra litres of fuel oil and few extra yokels to mix it all together.

Pharma plants may well be working at planned capacity, but it's not just a case of flicking a switch to command things to take off - production expansion is incremental and has to be planned as such......it would be dangerous to rush because the last thing we need to do now is introduce added problems such as faulty test kits, ineffectual medicines or treatments or defective devices such as ventilators.

FrancieBrady

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Ok, to explain - the pharma sector is not one big homogenous lump - read the EMA links I posted in response to one of your earlier replies and you'll get a flavour for just how diverse the sector is.

Some plants and some equipment can be re-tasked to Covid-19 relevant work, as in the story you posted.

That's about reagents - but you can make all the reagent you want, it still doesn't mean it will be any use to you unless you can get all the other bits to make up a test kit, then distribute them, have a testing infrastructure (including trained testers) and, crucially, enough labs and staff to examine the kits.

It's a bit like making petrol - you can have millions of litres in a refinery, but unless there is some way to distribute it, and some way to use it then it's useless.

Sorry, that's as simple as I can make it.

Now it seems we'll be making enough reagent, but where are the rest of the kit elements going to come from?

You can try and refine and refine the argument to cover blushes here.


The fact is, Pharma here can 'step up' can begin to produce different products etc.

We were told in no uncertain terms last night, that anyone suggesting or calling for that...was 'mouthing off'.

Embarrassing for those involved in that and I suggest you let it go now.

Shefwedfan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Eh...I quoted the relevant bit of the article, you know the bit that rubbishes what was being said here last night?


Ireland's Pharma indiustry is at capacity...it cannot produce more or gear up...we were told last night by 'pharma experts' who appeared on thread.


Is the Irish Times too 'touchy feely Irish stuff' too?

This just confirms your ignorance on the subject

FrancieBrady

Shefwedfan wrote: »

This just confirms your ignorance on the subject

Are you just gonna continue with the invective and insults or are you going to make a point?

joeguevara

Rows Grower wrote: »

Did you read the piece?

Read it and tell us what you think.

I read it. Quite a good piece. It analysed the NAMA report quite well. I disagreed with the fact that mainstream media were not interested in the report.

For instance here is Irish times with exactly what IrishCentral said https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/while-public-is-distracted-by-covid-19-nama-shrugs-off-loan-sale-findings-1.4208238?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Fcommercial-property%2Fwhile-public-is-distracted-by-covid-19-nama-shrugs-off-loan-sale-findings-1.4208238

Business Post said this https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwj2l_7srMnoAhX0snEKHfrYAEEQqQIILCgAMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businesspost.ie%2Fcompanies%2Fcag-report-raises-namas-sale-of-house-to-one-of-its-officials-1a487f7a&usg=AOvVaw2sK5YC6cywgDiWZBRTIDA_

Independent said this https://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/nama-could-have-got-better-price-on-nantes-loan-sale-39059881.html

It also said this https://www.independent.ie/business/difficult-to-conclude-nama-secured-the-best-possible-price-c-and-ag-39059586.html

Irish Examiner said this https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/nama-did-not-achieve-best-financial-outcome-when-selling-off-loans--report-989020.html

To suggest it slipped under Media scrutiny is not true.

Also, I have not read the Comptroller and Auditor General report that was critical of Nama. Were they critical of the Department of Finance?

Runaways

‘Sinn Fein haven’t a clue and wouldn’t have a notion how to run a government’

What you’re actually saying is

‘We’re afraid they might actually fix the countless crisis FFG have created and ignored and left behind and we can’t have that happening’

In a nutshell

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The fact is, Pharma here can 'step up' can begin to produce different products etc.

We were told in no uncertain terms last night, that anyone suggesting or calling for that...was 'mouthing off'.

Embarrassing for those involved in that and I suggest you let it go now.

Would ya g'wan out of that
I suggest you get your glands checked as they're really gone into claptrap overdrive this past few weeks

Noone suggested pharma couldn't switch
Your health spokeswoman on the other hand,for(like you) want of something to complain about,is going on like it's a click your fingers job and it happens

Sultan_of_Ping

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You can try and refine and refine the argument to cover blushes here.


The fact is, Pharma here can 'step up' can begin to produce different products etc.

We were told in no uncertain terms last night, that anyone suggesting or calling for that...was 'mouthing off'.

Embarrassing for those involved in that and I suggest you let it go now.

Not covering any blushes - I work in a small part of the sector so I know what is capable of, and, equally, what problems can be created by rushing to production and/or facilities moving to produce items they are not familiar with - look at the problems the UK and US are having with contaminated kits and faulty reagents - not only are those kits useless, the time/resources taken to produce them has been wasted and they've damaged confidence in testing.

The whole system needs to be synchronised properly or you are wasting resources and wasting time.

And the story you linked mentions only one reagent - there are usually 3/4 different reagents in each kit - and as I said, you can have all the reagents you want, but they are only one part of the testing kits, and examining testing kits requires people, equipment and lab space.

If SF have a solution to synchronising production of a multi-component kit, with the testing and analysis regime maybe they could share it with us?

Shefwedfan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you just gonna continue with the invective and insults or are you going to make a point?

ignorance

/ˈɪɡn(ə)r(ə)ns/

noun
noun: ignorance

lack of knowledge or information.

Best description for you on a number of subject.

No need to post, you just keep showing your ignorance with each post. You should learn sometimes it is better just to keep quiet.

Sultan_of_Ping

Runaways wrote: »

‘Sinn Fein haven’t a clue and wouldn’t have a notion how to run a government’

What you’re actually saying is

‘We’re afraid they might actually fix the countless crisis FFG have created and ignored and left behind and we can’t have that happening’

In a nutshell

Maybe pick one of the crises you mention and explain how SF fix it?

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Would ya g'wan out of that
I suggest you get your glands checked as they're really gone into claptrap overdrive this past few weeks

Noone suggested pharma couldn't switch
Your health spokeswoman on the other hand,for(like you) want of something to complain about,is going on like it's a click your fingers job and it happens

What?

Here is just one post from earlier saying just that:

Also, does she realise how bespoke these facilities are? The regulatory requirements required to start production, the equipment, training etc. She hasn’t a feckin clue. Is she seriously meant to be SF’s spokesperson on health??

Keep digging lads and lassies, the laugh is truly on you today.

Undermined again. Sean O'Rourke discussing this now and reps of Irish Pharma companies due on to talk about 'switiching' to making reagaent.

So embarrassed for a few posters here again. (well, I'm not actually, just laughing at them getting caught out 'mouthing off' on behalf of FG)

joeguevara

Runaways wrote: »

Wish we had more of this. Great to see a journalist from outside the bubble actually tell it like it is.
We have little more than mouthpieces here currently. Repeating what they’re told rather than asking hard questions.
All too cosy and close to each other and the parties

Can I ask you a question? Have you read this article https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/while-public-is-distracted-by-covid-19-nama-shrugs-off-loan-sale-findings-1.4208238?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Fcommercial-property%2Fwhile-public-is-distracted-by-covid-19-nama-shrugs-off-loan-sale-findings-1.4208238

The Irish Times article which was published on March 21st a full 6 days before Shane O Briens article in the Irish Central. Why are you saying that media didn’t ask the hard questions when it was clear the Irish Times did and even suggested that the report was published when the public were distracted. And why did it take the Irish Central another 6 days to publish theirs. Why weren’t they all over this?

Also, the Irish Central Article directly quoted the Times, Examiner and the Journal to make their points. It’s strange that you give out about mouthpiece journalism and heap praise on an article that is predominantly made up of said mouthpiece journalism.

FrancieBrady

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Not covering any blushes - I work in a small part of the sector so I know what is capable of, and, equally, what problems can be created by rushing to production and/or facilities moving to produce items they are not familiar with - look at the problems the UK and US are having with contaminated kits and faulty reagents - not only are those kits useless, the time/resources taken to produce them has been wasted and they've damaged confidence in testing.

The whole system needs to be synchronised properly or you are wasting resources and wasting time.

And the story you linked mentions only one reagent - there are usually 3/4 different reagents in each kit - and as I said, you can have all the reagents you want, but they are only one part of the testing kits, and examining testing kits requires people, equipment and lab space.

If SF have a solution to synchronising production of a multi-component kit, with the testing and analysis regime maybe they could share it with us?

Not what the issue was at all Sultan and i don't know if you are being genuine or trying to cover blushes tbh.

The issue was...'could pharma companies step up - Yes they can, by their OWN admission.
And could pharma switch production - and the answer to that again - is clearly, that they can.

The nuances and logistics of the above wasn't the point. Of course there will be challenges to 'step up to'.

FrancieBrady

Shefwedfan wrote: »

ignorance

/ˈɪɡn(ə)r(ə)ns/

noun
noun: ignorance

lack of knowledge or information.

Best description for you on a number of subject.

No need to post, you just keep showing your ignorance with each post. You should learn sometimes it is better just to keep quiet.

Look...this is just more invective...are you going to make a point?

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What?

Here is just one post from earlier saying just that:



Keep digging lads and lassies, the laugh is truly on you today.

Undermined again. Sean O'Rourke discussing this now and reps of Irish Pharma companies due on to talk about 'switiching' to making reagaent.

So embarrassed for a few posters here again. (well, I'm not actually, just laughing at them getting caught out 'mouthing off' on behalf of FG)

Post you quoted,doesnt say what you say it says
It just states that the processes are bespoke ie backing up the point that finger clicking changes dont happen
It takes time
Your inexperienced (in pharma) health spokesperson like yourself meanwhile just scraping that FG hste barrel looking for so.ething to complain about
Would you like a shovel?

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Post you quoted,doesnt say what you say it says
It just states that the processes are bespoke ie backing up the point that finger clicking changes dont happen
It takes time
Your inexperienced (in pharma) health spokesperson like yourself meanwhile just scraping that FG hste barrel looking for so.ething to complain about
Would you like a shovel?

Ah so it was 'finger clicking' change that was called for now...more lies.

The Pharma Industry just embarrassed the whole contingent of you on here by showing that they can indeed 'step up, and change production' if there is enough of a need.

Rows Grower

Shefwedfan wrote: »

ignorance

/ˈɪɡn(ə)r(ə)ns/

noun
noun: ignorance

lack of knowledge or information.

Best description for you on a number of subject.

No need to post, you just keep showing your ignorance with each post. You should learn sometimes it is better just to keep quiet.

So you got the last memo and won't be making anymore insulting remarks about travellers?

That's one group out of the way, it's a start anyway.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

invective

I thought you that word a few weeks back
I'm smiling that you've learned it
You were a fan yourself of what it means when I showed the word to you after you threw invective after invective at me in the IRA run SF thread
But I'm a modest man
Granny always told me,self praise is no praise

Shefwedfan

Mortelaro wrote: »

Post you quoted,doesnt say what you say it says
It just states that the processes are bespoke ie backing up the point that finger clicking changes dont happen
It takes time
Your inexperienced (in pharma) health spokesperson like yourself meanwhile just scraping that FG hste barrel looking for so.ething to complain about
Would you like a shovel?

You will go in circles to be honest with taht poster, every post is a goalpost change.....then when that doesnt work,

1. the caps lock key will come on
2. will call you stupid or something
3. Will then accuse you of not answering his/her questions


Best to sit back and laugh.....

Sultan_of_Ping

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What?

Here is just one post from earlier saying just that:



Keep digging lads and lassies, the laugh is truly on you today.

Undermined again. Sean O'Rourke discussing this now and reps of Irish Pharma companies due on to talk about 'switiching' to making reagaent.

So embarrassed for a few posters here again. (well, I'm not actually, just laughing at them getting caught out 'mouthing off' on behalf of FG)

OK, all they were saying is that bespoke facilities are bespoke facilities - aircraft hangars and train sheds are in the transport sector but no one expects that you could service DARTS at the airport, and aircraft powerplants in Inchicore - or maybe SF do, I don't know.

And again, reagent is but one element - where are the other elements coming from? Not to mention the sample processing and reading kit?

Maybe we could get car repair facilities to knock up a few PCR readers?

Btw, if you want to see how difficult it is - have a look at QIAGEN - they make Covid-19 testing kits, but even they are having trouble trying to convert more of their own facilties over to manufacturing testing kits!!

So the notion that any ol' pharma company can lash out a few kits is the type of patent nonsense you'd expect from SF.

Rows Grower

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You will go in circles to be honest with taht poster, every post is a goalpost change.....then when that doesnt work,

1. the caps lock key will come on
2. will call you stupid or something
3. Will then accuse you of not answering his/her questions


Best to sit back and laugh.....

Ohh the irony, the sweet, sweet irony.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you are the most entertaining poster on this forum.

Mr E

Shefwedfan wrote: »

This just confirms your ignorance on the subject

Shefwedfan wrote: »

ignorance

/ˈɪɡn(ə)r(ə)ns/

noun
noun: ignorance

lack of knowledge or information.

Best description for you on a number of subject.

No need to post, you just keep showing your ignorance with each post. You should learn sometimes it is better just to keep quiet.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You will go in circles to be honest with taht poster, every post is a goalpost change.....then when that doesnt work,

1. the caps lock key will come on
2. will call you stupid or something
3. Will then accuse you of not answering his/her questions

Best to sit back and laugh.....

Mod: @Shefwedfan - maybe try debating the issues instead of post crap like this please. Don't post in this thread again.

Runaways

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Maybe pick one of the crises you mention and explain how SF fix it?

By actually acknowledging they exist would be a start. Something FFG haven’t done. At all. Housing crisis alone was an open goal for FF to kill FG with in the election. They didn’t bring it up at all. I wonder why.

tikkahunter

tikkahunter wrote: »

See Louise OReilly mouthing off on the news about Pharma plants having to step up to the plate .She is a lousy piece of ****e , the majority of pharma plants are already 24/7 365 and are struggling to keep up with batches . Not a word about the employees that have to go in and work in the plants risking bringing the virus home to their family if they become infected at work . Not all of us can stay at home and get paid for it .

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-s-pharma-industry-gears-up-to-make-key-ingredient-for-covid-19-testing-1.4218334%3fmode=amp



Alot of egg on some faces here after last night.....surely it was obvious us,having a massive pharma sector,that we should use it to our advantages??


Louise oreilly said it...terrible evil,bad and stupid ill-informed idea,it gets go ahead through government....great idea,fantastic (which it is).....levels of hyprocrisy here is mind-boggling

Sultan_of_Ping

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not what the issue was at all Sultan and i don't know if you are being genuine or trying to cover blushes tbh.

The issue was...'could pharma companies step up - Yes they can, by their OWN admission.
And could pharma switch production - and the answer to that again - is clearly, that they can.

The nuances and logistics of the above wasn't the point. Of course there will be challenges to 'step up to'.

Of course they can step up - everyone is stepping up - and some can even shift production to making Covid-19 relevant products - but not all companies can, and I'd even question whether it's advisable for companies to step outside their competencies - because any marginal gain that might accrue from their efforts will likely be swamped by the resources they'll draw off from elsewhere, for example, in relation process validation and verification, and regulatory assessment.

Plus, any company moving outside its area of competence is essentially an "amateur" - and they run the serious risk of introducing noise and excessive demands in to the system of pharmacovigilance - just at a time when we need such channels to be kept clear with new treatments evolving all the time.

My advice to you and SF is stay clear of this - it's clear you don't know enough about the sector, and how it operates, to contribute anything useful - and suggesting any ol' plant producing a few medical devices, medicines (both animal and human) or equipment can quickly shift gears to do something else is not just unhelpful, it's destructive and distracting at a time when neither is needed.

joeguevara

Runaways wrote: »

By actually acknowledging they exist would be a start. Something FFG haven’t done. At all. Housing crisis alone was an open goal for FF to kill FG with in the election. They didn’t bring it up at all. I wonder why.

Is that true that they didn’t bring it up. In the Journal.ie they specifically stated the following with regards homelessness

Fianna Fáil: The party said in its response to TheJournal.ie that it is committed to building 50,000 new social housing units by 2025. It said these units would be made available as part of the ‘Home First’ strategy.
It also aims to increase Rent Supplement and Housing Assistance Payment supports.
The party plans to increase homeless funding to €250 million per annum.
Fianna Fáil plans to set up a Homeless Prevention Unit with the Department of Housing to develop and support effective prevention actions.
Fianna Fáil also seeks to establish a “preventing homelessness” fighting fund. It said: “We will set up a rolling acquisition fund in the Housing Agency to purchase repossessed units and keep those tenants in place. At current repossession numbers we will allocated €168 million to purchase all repossessed Buy to Let units.”

https://www.thejournal.ie/housing-homelessness-general-election-4985853-Feb2020/

Why say that they didn’t raise it?

Runaways

joeguevara wrote: »

Can I ask you a question? Have you read this article https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/while-public-is-distracted-by-covid-19-nama-shrugs-off-loan-sale-findings-1.4208238?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Fcommercial-property%2Fwhile-public-is-distracted-by-covid-19-nama-shrugs-off-loan-sale-findings-1.4208238

The Irish Times article which was published on March 21st a full 6 days before Shane O Briens article in the Irish Central. Why are you saying that media didn’t ask the hard questions when it was clear the Irish Times did and even suggested that the report was published when the public were distracted. And why did it take the Irish Central another 6 days to publish theirs. Why weren’t they all over this?

Also, the Irish Central Article directly quoted the Times, Examiner and the Journal to make their points. It’s strange that you give out about mouthpiece journalism and heap praise on an article that is predominantly made up of said mouthpiece journalism.

I don’t have an IT subscription. And usually their best stuff is behind a paywall.

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

I thought you that word a few weeks back
I'm smiling that you've learned it
You were a fan yourself of what it means when I showed the word to you after you threw invective after invective at me in the IRA run SF thread
But I'm a modest man
Granny always told me,self praise is no praise

WOW again. The absolute arrogance of some of you on here.

Not just embarrassed for you now...actually morto for you.


2019

Come on...before you go with the invective...cost it for us?

*deflection or more invective incoming.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110594038&postcount=510

2019 again

Data trumps invective every day of the week FH.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110604850&postcount=611

2018

*Nice to get the old invective in there before you go to bed! I have actually outworked you by 2 years, if that matters at all.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=108720705

joeguevara

Runaways wrote: »

I don’t have an IT subscription. And usually their best stuff is behind a paywall.

You can see the headline While public is distracted by Covid-19, Nama shrugs off loan sale findings

You can also see the first two paragraphs


Paschal Donohoe, the Minister for Finance, has been sitting on The Comptroller and Auditor General’s report into the knockdown sale by Nama of loans linked to Derek Quinlan for three months. He received the report from Seamus McCarthy’s office on the day before Christmas Eve. The Minister then had three months to put the State spending watchdog’s findings in front of the Dáil.
Given its focus on allegations involving Nama, he was always unlikely to publish the report ahead of a general election. On Thursday, days before the deadline ran out and while almost the entire country is distracted by the Covid-19 crisis, the report was released.

This was 6 days before IrishCentral