Is it just me or have SF vanished?

all about the mane

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Yeah, look SF seemed to think any old reagent would do - they failed to grasp (and still do) what's involved in developing a diagnostic test for a novel infectious agent.

As Tully confirmed with her statement released yesterday (and linked above) SF still have no idea what's involved. She is "urging the government to liaise with the many medical device companies with facilities here in Ireland to produce domestic kits to increase testing capacity here."

She can urge all she wants, the government can liaise all it wants, but can SF not understand? - medical device companies cannot produce test kits.

Abbott Nutrition and Abbott Diagnostics are separate business lines - just because one makes test kits or the elements of test kits, it doesn't mean all of Abbott can make test kits.

There has been a major breakthrough in reagent production though in Cork. Will help address worldwide shortages. Brilliant result.

FrancieBrady

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Yeah, look SF seemed to think any old reagent would do - they failed to grasp (and still do) what's involved in developing a diagnostic test for a novel infectious agent.

As Tully confirmed with her statement released yesterday (and linked above) SF still have no idea what's involved. She is "urging the government to liaise with the many medical device companies with facilities here in Ireland to produce domestic kits to increase testing capacity here."

She can urge all she wants, the government can liaise all it wants, but can SF not understand? - medical device companies cannot produce test kits.

Abbott Nutrition and Abbott Diagnostics are separate business lines - just because one makes test kits or the elements of test kits, it doesn't mean all of Abbott can make test kits.

So nobody talked about 'magicing up mega litres' of reagent.
Do stop exaggerating.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

Your wan in Clare is probably suggesting homeopathic treatments.

However, your other point is correct, their only experience of chemical treatments is which colour dye.

I had assumed she was some weirdo anti-science outlier in the party, seemingly not.

Sultan_of_Ping

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So nobody talked about 'magicing up mega litres' of reagent.
Do stop exaggerating.

I think we can see from SF's "step up" call and Tully's statement yesterday just how much SF don't know about the pharmaceutical industry.

Doubtless they'd have accepted any colouredy water waved in front of them

smurgen

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

I think we can see from SF's "step up" call and Tully's statement yesterday just how much SF don't know about the pharmaceutical industry.

Doubtless they'd have accepted any colouredy water waved in front of them

Like Harris and co buying ppe off Alibaba?

Sultan_of_Ping

all about the mane wrote: »

There has been a major breakthrough in reagent production though in Cork. Will help address worldwide shortages. Brilliant result.

Yes, only 4 iterations to get to the good stuff is, to my mind, really super going and excellent work.

And they went with Lilly, not any old medical device manufacturer.

Suckit

blanch152 wrote: »

How many tests should we be doing?

The UK are doing around 10,000 tests per day, should we be doing 900, because that is the proportional number?

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52149832

Cases per capita reflect testing per capita, up to a certain point. Testing needs to be at a level that catches 98% of cases in order to completely eliminate the virus. We are not there, but we are a long way ahead of others, so that means we have a higher case number per capita.

Did you just randomly quote me and then start blurting stuff out on the keyboard?
It says how many tests are our target in the post you quoted.

Who would have honestly thought that the cases per capita are reflected by the amount of people tested? :eek: That is some fine detective work right there.
We won't catch 98% of cases while we are still thousands per day under our daily target, which is why I said we are weeks away from reaching said target.

Now that we have confirmed that tested cases will let us estimate the amount of cases per capita, do you think that figure is goin to drop or grow?

I know 12-15 people now that have had COVID-19, 5 have taken the test almost 3 weeks ago and still not got their results, one has been in ICU and is on the far side of it now hopefully.

That is 7-10 people untested, all but confirmed via tests that they have had it in a small area.

FrancieBrady

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

I think we can see from SF's "step up" call and Tully's statement yesterday just how much SF don't know about the pharmaceutical industry.

Doubtless they'd have accepted any colouredy water waved in front of them

All about the Mane has news you might be interested in. I remember earlier people were claiming that all our pharma companies were at capacity etc etc.

Seems one has found the time. Mad what can happen in a crisis.

Sultan_of_Ping

smurgen wrote: »

Like Harris and co buying ppe off Alibaba?

Where would you have bought PPE during a global pandemic when demand overwhelmingly exceeds supply?

I'm sure you can name an alternative that would've supplied first rate kit?

Or is this just more hurling from the ditch?

smurgen

aido79 wrote: »

There has never been such a demand for ventilators before so being the 4th largest exporter of medical devices that can be used to treat covid19 means nothing. For all we know this could mean Ireland exports 50 ventilators a year.

The reagent for covid19 was only developed this year and there is a worldwide shortage so I wouldn't bet that it's being made in Ireland currently. The 17bn worth of sales were for last year so no real relevance.

Ireland is one of the biggest manufacturers or ventilators internationally. Metronic has it's global headquarters here and the plant in Galway manufacturers them.

Sultan_of_Ping

FrancieBrady wrote: »

All about the Mane has news you might be interested in. I remember earlier people were claiming that all our pharma companies were at capacity etc etc.

Seems one has found the time. Mad what can happen in a crisis.

Yes, you'll see I've responded to his post.

And look who they worked with - Lilly!!

Mad that they went with an established manufacturer with the requisite expertise instead of adopting SF's AMDWD (Any Medical Device Company Will Do) policy - it's almost as if they knew this stuff can't be knocked together by anyone with a few test tubes and a bit of salt

In fact, happy to be corrected, but I don't Lilly do medical devices (maybe insulin pumps) - which shows that competencies are not transferable.

smurgen

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Where would you have bought PPE during a global pandemic when demand overwhelmingly exceeds supply?

I'm sure you can name an alternative that would've supplied first rate kit?

Or is this just more hurling from the ditch?

Don't blame me for Leo and Harris' boo boo. As far as I know most of the issue is 3/4 length gowns . If they can source midget nurses and doctors it might be grand.

FrancieBrady

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Yes, you'll see I've responded to his post.

And look who they worked with - Lilly!!

Mad that they went with an established manufacturer with the requisite expertise instead of adopting SF's AMDWD (Any Medical Device Company Will Do) policy - it's almost as if they knew this stuff can't be knocked together by anyone with a few test tubes and a bit of salt

In fact, happy to be corrected, but I don't Lilly do medical devices (maybe insulin pumps) - which shows that competencies are not transferable.

So not all pharma companies are at capacity. One has had time to develop something.

And people here argued long and hard that it was 'hurling from the ditch' to inquire or stupid to suggest that it could be made here.

Sultan_of_Ping

smurgen wrote: »

Don't blame me for Leo and Harris' boo boo. As far as I know most of the issue is 3/4 length gowns . If they can source midget nurses and doctors it might be grand.

So nothing to offer by way of an alternative.

Funny, by the way you were criticising the honest efforts of others, I thought you might have had a line on a secret stash of PPE the HSE missed - guess you had nothing to offer.

Sultan_of_Ping

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So not all pharma companies are at capacity. One has had time to develop something.

And people here argued long and hard that it was 'hurling from the ditch' to inquire or stupid to suggest that it could be made here.

Ok, this has been explained to you.

Many companies are at capacity. A lot, maybe all, are at planned capacity - they can generate short lifts in capacity through various means and more permanent uplifts through changes that take a long time to engineer.

There is a difference between "capacity" which is transient, and production ceilings which are fixed.

Companies are not profitable if they operate below capacity - spare capacity, as you know as a business person, is wasteful - it eats cash, erodes margins and leads to efficiency deteriorations.

Think of it this way - production capacity is near and small, production ceilings are big and far away.

Capacity, near and small.....

Ceiling, big and faaaaar away.

smurgen

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

So nothing to offer by way of an alternative.

Funny, by the way you were criticising the honest efforts of others, I thought you might have had a line on a secret stash of PPE the HSE missed - guess you had nothing to offer.

I don't have a stash but it's not my job. Also if I was buying I'd make sure to do due diligence in advance especially after other countries had warned they'd been burnt.

FrancieBrady

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Ok, this has been explained to you.

Many companies are at capacity. A lot, maybe all, are at planned capacity - they can generate short lifts in capacity through various means and more permanent uplifts through changes that take a long time to engineer.

There is a difference between "capacity" which is transient, and production ceilings which are fixed.

Companies are not profitable if they operate below capacity - spare capacity, as you know as a business person, is wasteful - it eats cash, erodes margins and leads to efficiency deteriorations.

Think of it this way - production capacity is near and small, production ceilings are big and far away.

Capacity, near and small.....

Ceiling, big and faaaaar away.

Which is spinning and not what was being said earlier. Any comment suggesting that kits or reagent be made here was roundly rubbished.

I don't want to listen to that defensive argument again, thanks all the same, just saying.

There are obviously things that can be done in a crisis that are not the ordinary, normal way of doing things. We are all in this together...including pharma companies I presume.

smurgen

all about the mane wrote: »

There has been a major breakthrough in reagent production though in Cork. Will help address worldwide shortages. Brilliant result.

Wonder where the Harris pulled the 15k out of? Some howler that was.

Hurrache

smurgen wrote: »

Like Harris and co buying ppe off Alibaba?

That was idiot Cosgrave.

all about the mane

smurgen wrote: »

Wonder where the Harris pulled the 15k out of? Some howler that was.

What are you raving about now?

Sultan_of_Ping

smurgen wrote: »

I don't have a stash but it's not my job. Also if I was buying I'd make sure to do due diligence in advance especially after other countries had warned they'd been burnt.

So Dr Ryan of the WHO was wrong then when he said

“Be fast, have no regrets. You must be the first mover. The virus will always get you if you don’t move quickly,” Dr Ryan said.

“If you need to be right before you move, you will never win,”

“Perfection is the enemy of the good when it comes to emergency management,” Dr Ryan said.

“Speed trumps perfection.

“The problem in society we have at the moment is that everyone is afraid of making a mistake. Everyone is afraid of the consequence of error.

“But the greatest error is not to move. The greatest error is to be paralysed by the fear of failure.”

.......but sure what would he know.

Sultan_of_Ping

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Which is spinning and not what was being said earlier. Any comment suggesting that kits or reagent be made here was roundly rubbished.

I don't want to listen to that defensive argument again, thanks all the same, just saying.

There are obviously things that can be done in a crisis that are not the ordinary, normal way of doing things. We are all in this together...including pharma companies I presume.

Sorry, I can't make it any simpler.

And if we're all in this together how come SF are still coming out with distracting nonsense like Tully's statement yesterday?

FrancieBrady

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

So Dr Ryan of the WHO was wrong then when he said



.......but sure what would he know.

You just leapt all over a SF rep who you reckoned made a mistake. A bit hypocritical and protective of one party...no?

Ballso

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

So Dr Ryan of the WHO was wrong then when he said



.......but sure what would he know.

Are you suggesting we should take the opinion of the head of the World Health Organisation ahead of smurgen here? What are you, some kind of Tory?

FrancieBrady

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Sorry, I can't make it any simpler.

And if we're all in this together how come SF are still coming out with distracting nonsense like Tully's statement yesterday?

Right back at you!

“Be fast, have no regrets. You must be the first mover. The virus will always get you if you don’t move quickly,” Dr Ryan said.

“If you need to be right before you move, you will never win,”

“Perfection is the enemy of the good when it comes to emergency management,” Dr Ryan said.

“Speed trumps perfection.

“The problem in society we have at the moment is that everyone is afraid of making a mistake. Everyone is afraid of the consequence of error.

“But the greatest error is not to move. The greatest error is to be paralysed by the fear of failure.”

Sultan_of_Ping

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You just leapt all over a SF rep who you reckoned made a mistake. A bit hypocritical and protective of one party...no?

What? I genuinely have no idea what you are alluding to here?

I was just pointing out the ridiculousness of conducting full due diligence in a procurement exercise during a pandemic.

Ballso

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

What? I genuinely have no idea what you are alluding to here?

I was just pointing out the ridiculousness of conducting full due diligence in a procurement exercise during a pandemic.

He ironically thinks we should weight the opinion of a "SF rep" equally with the head of the WHO.

Like I was saying earlier, delusional.

Sultan_of_Ping

Ballso wrote: »

Are you suggesting we should take the opinion of the head of the World Health Organisation ahead of smurgen here? What are you, some kind of Tory?

No, I'm not for one minute suggesting we take the opinion of the of the WHO ahead of Smurgen.......don't be ridiculous!!

I'm suggesting we take the opinion of Executive Director of the World Health Organization's Health Emergencies Programme ahead of Smurgen's.

FrancieBrady

Ballso wrote: »

He ironically thinks we should weight the opinion of a "SF rep" equally with the head of the WHO.

Like I was saying earlier, delusional.

I never mentioned the 'head of WHO'.

Sultan_of_Ping

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Right back at you!

Yeah, still not got a scooby-doo what you're driving at, but as you seem happy in yourself you should just continue.