Is it just me or have SF vanished?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

The questioning isn't the problem it's your naive proposed solutions that are getting lambasted.

Do you not think that such a well resourced party like SF should have a better understanding of how these things work?

Is it incompetence or opportunistic point scoring behind this is the real question.

So making some attempt at inspecting goods before dispatch is 'naive'. okie doke.
Remind me not to give you a job in procurement so.

aido79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So making some attempt at inspecting goods before dispatch is 'naive'. okie doke.
Remind me not to give you a job in procurement so.

To be taken seriously you need to be explain how this inspection could have been done without delaying the delivery by weeks.

Yurt2

aido79 wrote: »

I'd put them in the category of "better than nothing" from what I've read similar to closing your eyes when using an angle grinder instead of using goggles or safety glasses.
Still no solution for frontline staff who are the main end users of the ppe required.

I don't think the SF TD in retweeting an account talking about how to make homemade masks is suggesting they are adequate for PPE purposes for frontline.

It is however in-line with competent British authority advice on masks for the general public if you don't have access to professionally made masks.

Which is what someone was getting hot and bothered about

blackwhite

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How the f**k do you what is and isn't feasible if you don't ask questions?

Again, all it took was a photo on Twitter to explain to the nation what the problems were with the shipment.

Indeed. Applying the most basic aspect of critical thought or analysis does seem to be completely beyond you alright. We saw it before in your despicable defences of anti-vaxxers (but only Shinner anti-vaxxers mind). "I'm just asking questions" isn't a defence for proffering knowingly dangerous theories time and again.

Anyone with half a brain could have figured out that the 14-day quarantine being imposed by the Chinese would prevent flying out inspectors - all of course except our resident "businessman"

Your solution is to send out an inspection team and wait 2 weeks to get 75% of the consignment approved and shipped.

The simpler and safer solution - which was followed - was to take the delivery immediately and inspect it on arrival in Ireland and have use of the 75% of confirming PPE without delay.

But f*ck anyone who happens to die because of the delays by you "just asking questions" - right Francie? They're not as important as point-scoring for SF on the internet :rolleyes:

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So making some attempt at inspecting goods before dispatch is 'naive'. okie doke.
Remind me not to give you a job in procurement so.

It is if you are getting deliveries from China and India on a weekly / monthly basis.

The procurement contract sets the specs for the product and they are inspected on arrival as to whether they meet that requirement before being released for use.

That is how all pharma companies do it. it's the most efficient way of doing it.

Otherwise you would need a permanent presence in the country you are sourcing from.

Multinationals operate differently to small SME's like i'm assuming you work for.

walshb

Ballso wrote: »

Sure Sinn Fein have a simple solution for everything. Solutions they've no experience of and likely will never have to implement.

But they only ever demand them solutions of others......yo do it, you do it, you do it....

FrancieBrady

blackwhite wrote: »

Indeed. Applying the most basic aspect of critical thought or analysis does seem to be completely beyond you alright. We saw it before in your despicable defences of anti-vaxxers (but only Shinner anti-vaxxers mind). "I'm just asking questions" isn't a defence for proffering knowingly dangerous theories time and again.

WTF?

Anyone with half a brain could have figured out that the 14-day quarantine being imposed by the Chinese would prevent flying out inspectors - all of course except our resident "businessman"

Your solution is to send out an inspection team and wait 2 weeks to get 75% of the consignment approved and shipped.


The simpler and safer solution - which was followed - was to take the delivery immediately and inspect it on arrival in Ireland and have use of the 75% of confirming PPE without delay.

But f*ck anyone who happens to die because of the delays by you "just asking questions" - right Francie? They're not as important as point-scoring for SF on the internet :rolleyes:

Where did I say anything about two weeks? I said we have people out there already with business expertise and who know and have dealt with companies there. Were they tasked to help here? Could they have helped?



With 200m at stake, we could just as easily ended up with none of it usable...is the point here. As other countries found to their cost...as posted by somebody last night, Finland's entire consignment was defective.

blackwhite

FrancieBrady wrote: »

WTF?

You can try and deny your post history all you want. It's there for anyone to read back on your defence of anti-vaxxers who were "just asking questions"

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where did I say anything about two weeks? I said we have people out there already with business expertise and who know and have dealt with companies there. Were they tasked to help here? Could they have helped?

With 200m at stake, we could just as easily ended up with none of it usable...is the point here. As other countries found to their cost...as posted by somebody last night, Finland's entire consignment was defective.

You advocated flying out inspectors - ignoring the fact that they'd be quarantined for 2 weeks as soon as they left the plane in China.

Of course - we could have dithered around as you advocate for 2 weeks, and have another country swoop in and divert our allocated supplies away to someone else (as Trump has been seen to do plenty of times).

Better get a consignment with a usable percentage now, than wait 2 weeks to get the same usable quantity and open the risk of someone gazzumping our order (as well as exposing front-line workers to a needless two-week delay).

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

WTF?



Where did I say anything about two weeks? I said we have people out there already with business expertise and who know and have dealt with companies there. Were they tasked to help here? Could they have helped?



With 200m at stake, we could just as easily ended up with none of it usable...is the point here. As other countries found to their cost...as posted by somebody last night, Finland's entire consignment was defective.

Unless you worked in the industry you wouldn't know this but in India and China it's like the wild west when it comes to supplying the medical / pharma industry.

Feckers in China once even built a fake second pharma plant exclusively for show to foreign regulators so they could get away with non-compliance in the real plant.

Yurt2

jh79 wrote: »

Unless you worked in the industry you wouldn't know this but in India and China it's like the wild west when it comes to supplying the medical / pharma industry.

Feckers in China once even built a fake second pharma plant exclusively for show to foreign regulators so they could get away with non-compliance in the real plant.

I could tell you stories about this type of carry-on in China (regretfully from personal experience) but I'd be going way off topic

Sultan_of_Ping

Yurt! wrote: »

I'm not sure where you're taking this. The professional on the podcast more or less said that the advice from the competent British authority on wearing homemade masks wasn't a bad one.

Just that it won't stop you picking up virus particles, which some commentators are suggesting - for example O'Rourke's tweet doesn't say "wear a maks if you are symptomatic or think you are infected" thus leaving the clear impression that a folded bandana will protect a healthy individual from contracting the virus.

The studies suggest surgical masks will limit the shedding of the virus (the Cowling study) and the PHE study suggests likewise and, additionally, that certain household materials may also hold some potential when it comes to limiting the shedding of the virus.

But the idea that a homemade mask, with no filter insert can stop you picking up the virus when its aersolised is a reckless one, and not something, I think, public reps should be encouraging.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Unless you worked in the industry you wouldn't know this but in India and China it's like the wild west when it comes to supplying the medical / pharma industry.

Feckers in China once even built a fake second pharma plant exclusively for show to foreign regulators so they could get away with non-compliance in the real plant.

I would have no doubt about it.

But if you know that and I know that, shouldn't somebody spending 200 million have known it too?

As I keep saying, we could have ended up with a much much higher or even total defective rate.

What measures have been put in place to ensure quality in subsequent orders would be good to know too.

But 'questioning' seems to be not allowable.

blackwhite

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I said we have people out there already with business expertise and who know and have dealt with companies there. Were they tasked to help here? Could they have helped?

Usually people can last more than 2 hours without catching themselves in a lie.

That's not your original suggestion

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Had it been me, knowing China's reputation for varying quality I'd have sent a team out there to inspect the product before accepting it. A bit of logistics required but certainly doable. The defective materials were discovered very quickly on arrival...that could have been picked up in China by random sampling.

tikkahunter

FrancieBrady wrote: »

WTF?



Where did I say anything about two weeks? I said we have people out there already with business expertise and who know and have dealt with companies there. Were they tasked to help here? Could they have helped?



With 200m at stake, we could just as easily ended up with none of it usable...is the point here. As other countries found to their cost...as posted by somebody last night, Finland's entire consignment was defective.

See the red herring is the gear was defective, none of the stuff we got was defective Francie, it was approved by the WHO , the main issue was some of the gowns where 3/4 length sleeve , obviously made for Chinese people or with a 3/4 length sleeve you would wear the longer gloves that go past the elbow but the gear was of a standard that complies with regulation. The stuff they where donated from the likes of that dick head Paddy Cosgrove (who was trying to act billy big balls) was sourced from alibaba and spurious sites was not up to standard, other countries fell into that trap in desperation, Spain for instance and Belgium. Then you see twitter stories where they say they got defective PPE from China , but not that they bought from spurious suppliers, that headline gets buried. We done very well to get the gear we did when demand is high and cut throat at the moment.

Sultan_of_Ping

jh79 wrote: »

Unless you worked in the industry you wouldn't know this but in India and China it's like the wild west when it comes to supplying the medical / pharma industry.

Feckers in China once even built a fake second pharma plant exclusively for show to foreign regulators so they could get away with non-compliance in the real plant.

I know some of the counterfeit stuff we get sent to evaluate is almost indistinguishable from our own products - a few years ago we just had to worry about packaging being counterfeited, now its whole assemblies and components.....so I'm not sure how even a well trained team of auditors/assessors on an airport apron could even hope to inspect enough PPE, in sufficient detail to pass or reject a consignment - it's fantasyland stuff from people who have no clue how the real world runs.

eastie17

Are balaclavas considered PPE? If they are I'd expect SF to step up and crack open that bunker with all the guns in it and the Northern Bank cash and hand it over to the HSE.
They could use some of the cash to buy more PPE from China as well

Yurt2

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

But the idea that a homemade mask, with no filter insert can stop you picking up the virus when its aersolised is a reckless one, and not something, I think, public reps should be encouraging.

If he made such a claim I'd agree with you, but I don't believe he did.

Sultan_of_Ping

Yurt! wrote: »

If he made such a claim I'd agree with you, but I don't believe he did.

No, but is this really a situation where you want ambiguity - no context when you're providing information is probably not where we want to be.

FrancieBrady

blackwhite wrote: »

Usually people can last more than 2 hours without catching themselves in a lie.

That's not your original suggestion

Yes...because I can accept that something I said was wrong and rethink. I didn't know that people sent out had to do 2 weeks quarantine nor that the pilots were not allowed off the plane until somebody said it here..so I do what I always do...I looked for another possibility/solution.
I didn't just throw my hands in the air and say...ah that can't be done.

blackwhite

blackwhite wrote: »

Indeed. Applying the most basic aspect of critical thought or analysis does seem to be completely beyond you alright. We saw it before in your despicable defences of anti-vaxxers (but only Shinner anti-vaxxers mind). "I'm just asking questions" isn't a defence for proffering knowingly dangerous theories time and again.

Anyone with half a brain could have figured out that the 14-day quarantine being imposed by the Chinese would prevent flying out inspectors - all of course except our resident "businessman"

Your solution is to send out an inspection team and wait 2 weeks to get 75% of the consignment approved and shipped.

The simpler and safer solution - which was followed - was to take the delivery immediately and inspect it on arrival in Ireland and have use of the 75% of confirming PPE without delay.

But f*ck anyone who happens to die because of the delays by you "just asking questions" - right Francie? They're not as important as point-scoring for SF on the internet :rolleyes:

Pretty much. There's no end to easy answers SF won't promote.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I would have no doubt about it.

But if you know that and I know that, shouldn't somebody spending 200 million have known it too?

As I keep saying, we could have ended up with a much much higher or even total defective rate.

What measures have been put in place to ensure quality in subsequent orders would be good to know too.

But 'questioning' seems to be not allowable.

Of course they knew there is a risk with orders form China but anyone with experience in the industry would know that there isn't a lot you can do except check the order on delivery and liaise with the supplier to ensure the quality of subsequent orders and if that doesn't work maybe add financial penalties in the procurement contract and in the background try an find an alternative supplier.

But in a pandemic your hands are tied even more.

FrancieBrady

This is so embarrassing...Josepha retweeting the exact same tweet.



https://twitter.com/ciarakellydoc/status/1246429238317715457

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes...because I can accept that something I said was wrong and rethink. I didn't know that people sent out had to do 2 weeks quarantine nor that the pilots were not allowed off the plane until somebody said it here..so I do what I always do...I looked for another possibility/solution.
I didn't just throw my hands in the air and say...ah that can't be done.

You could just say the Governmen/HSE got this one right.

Sultan_of_Ping

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This is so embarrassing...Josepha retweeting the exact same tweet.

https://twitter.com/ciarakellydoc/status/1246429238317715457

Is that not Ciara Kelly, and yes it's not embarassing - it's still a stupid idea.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes...because I can accept that something I said was wrong and rethink. I didn't know that people sent out had to do 2 weeks quarantine nor that the pilots were not allowed off the plane until somebody said it here..so I do what I always do...I looked for another possibility/solution.
I didn't just throw my hands in the air and say...ah that can't be done.

So you're admitting you are posting stuff without the facts
Hmmmm.... this looks like deja vu
You were at that all day yesterday denying you'd said the government were picking what advice to take from NPHET with no evidence to back that up whatsoever

You do this kind of fake news a lot

Yurt2

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This is so embarrassing...Josepha retweeting the exact same tweet.

https://twitter.com/ciarakellydoc/status/1246429238317715457

This just went from reckless and irresponsible to pretty good idea actually.

FrancieBrady

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Is that not Ciara Kelly, and yes it's not embarassing - it's still a stupid idea.

I added a screen grab as the retweet didn't show.

Yurt!

Yurt! wrote: »

This just went from reckless and irresponsible to pretty good idea actually.

For front line workers?

Can I interest you in a range of homeopathic virus cures?

Sultan_of_Ping

Yurt! wrote: »

This just went from reckless and irresponsible to pretty good idea actually.

This isn't about ideology - it's still a dumb idea, promoting the idea that home-made masks offer protection against picking up SARS-CoV-2 particles.

A virus particle is between 70 & 90 nm in diameter - cotton weave, even in layers isn't going to catch that.

Mortelaro

Yurt! wrote: »

This just went from reckless and irresponsible to pretty good idea actually.

Last several pages was on ppe for frontline staff
These are for the general public who may be asymptomatic
To offer some protection to others
It's the advice in the USA