Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Sultan_of_Ping

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So YOU say. But others say different.

It's like washing hands or even the 2 meter rule, some washing of hands is better than none, some distance is better than none.
They are guidelines, not hard scientific methods of not catching the virus. As is a mask.

Nobody suggested these were medical standard safeguards...just another deterrent in the absence of better.

No, it's not the same - the 2m rule is based on scientific facts relating to droplet and aerosol spread, likewise handwashing with soap, is not a guideline - its a fact because the lipid corona of the SARS-CoV-2 virus is broken down by soap and detergent.

Untreated folded cotton is not a recognised public health control measure - if people want to advocate otherwise they should indicate as much.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Mr Murphy said officials from the Republic of Ireland were forced to go ahead with an order for the equipment after global powers, including USA and India, entered the race for PPE, before a joint order was agreed with Northern Ireland.


That is your answer right there. He announced it before it was agreed.

The journalist is saying that from my reading of it.

Here is the BBC's reporting what he said:

On Friday afternoon, Mr Murphy said he had agreed to process an order for PPE with Dublin from China last week, and was arranging the transfer of payment when a number of "significant players had moved in", thwarting the order.

It does require transparency and clearing up.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Good luck, I won't be indulging you in your lies on this anymore.

Mainly because I'm exposing you is it?
Shur everyone is exposing you here because you are doing so much spoof posting

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The journalist is saying that from my reading of it.

Here is the BBC's reporting what he said:


It does require transparency and clearing up.

I agree SF need to explain what happened.

FrancieBrady

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

No, it's not the same - the 2m rule is based on scientific facts relating to droplet and aerosol spread, likewise handwashing with soap, is not a guideline - its a fact because the lipid corona of the SARS-CoV-2 virus is broken down by soap and detergent.

Untreated folded cotton is not a recognised public health control measure - if people want to advocate otherwise they should indicate as much.

'Based on' scientific facts. It is no guarantee though.

NOBODY suggested that folded cotton is a recognised public health measure. We have gone from touching elbows in greeting to staying 2m's away in trying to control the spread of this...if we need to move to medically approved ones as the crisis deepens, I am sure we will and all TD's will be promoting them.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

I agree SF need to explain what happened.

But what good would that do for people who don't believe a word they say.
We need clarity and that is going to involve definitive statements from both party's involved. As it always does.

What perplexes me is what gain there was for Murphy when it was going to be apparent very quickly that no PPE was coming.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

But what good would that do for people who don't believe a word they say.
We need clarity and that is going to involve definitive statements from both party's involved. As it always does.

What perplexes me is what gain there was for Murphy when it was going to be apparent very quickly that no PPE was coming.

Did the HSE say a contract was in place , if not what do they need to clarify?

All PM has to do is clarify if he went public prior to the contract being signed.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What perplexes me is what gain there was for Murphy when it was going to be apparent very quickly that no PPE was coming.

Maybe he's not very good at his job.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Did the HSE say a contract was in place , if not what do they need to clarify?

All PM has to do is clarify if he went public prior to the contract being signed.

The HSE said an 'order could not be placed'.

I haven't seen anything else from them. Murphy seems to be saying the order went south after he had agreed on it and had been processing payment.

Would you process payment without a contract?

Short answer is I don't know what to believe and I will say again there needs to be transparency here. Which is what I was asked about. One side can't give that.

Asking Connor Murphy to confirm your suspicions isn't transparency, unfortunately.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Maybe he's not very good at his job.

Maybe. Plenty of TDs, Ministers, MP's and MLA's aren't.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The HSE said an 'order could not be placed'.

I haven't seen anything else from them. Murphy seems to be saying the order went south after he had agreed on it and had been processing payment.

Would you process payment without a contract?

Short answer is I don't know what to believe and I will say again there needs to be transparency here. Which is what I was asked about. One side can't give that.

Asking Connor Murphy to confirm your suspicions isn't transparency, unfortunately.

I don't see why the HSE need to explain anything. They never said a contract had been finalized. Connor Murphy did so he should show us the signed contract or explain why he made the announcement before it was finalized.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

I don't why the HSE need to explain anything. They never said a contract had been finalized. Connor Murphy did so he should show us the signed contract or explain why he made the announcement before it was finalized.

Don't be adding to what we know.
He said 'agreed'. That could mean anything.

The HSE said a joint order was not able to be placed. They didn't say whether one had been agreed or not.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Don't be adding to what we know.
He said 'agreed'. That could mean anything.

The HSE said a joint order was not able to be placed. They didn't say whether one had been agreed or not.

So he said it was agreed (not the HSE) and as you say it could mean anything so wouldn't it be reasonable to expect that CM explains what he meant by agreed and at what stage of the process they were actually at when he made his announcement?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

So he said it was agreed (not the HSE) and as you say it could mean anything so wouldn't it be reasonable to expect that CM explains what he meant by agreed and at what stage of the process they were actually at when he made his announcement?

Yes. And he has done.

He was at processing payment stage when it emerged/he was told the order could not be processed.

The HSE were obviously involved at some level here.

When looking for transparency you need to hear from both party's. Basic proceedure for any fair inquiry...no?

p.s. You seem to be saying you will only be satisfied if he confirms what you think happened.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes. And he has done.

He was at processing payment stage when it emerged/he was told the order could not be processed.

The HSE were obviously involved at some level here.

When looking for transparency you need to hear from both party's. Basic proceedure for any fair inquiry...no?

p.s. You seem to be saying you will only be satisfied if he confirms what you think happened.

Inquiry into what exactly from the HSE perspective? They never said a contract had been finalized.

PM made a claim and has access to the relevant documents, he is in a position to clarify why he claimed an order was in place.

P.S. PM is a foreign politician and owes me no explanation. It's just funny to me how you have a different standard for SF politicians.

Sultan_of_Ping

Varadkar is doing alright amongst the Nordies......they have him ahead of O'Neill.

Even the Nationalist/Republicans have him ahead of O'Neill - if he's as bad as SF make out, how bad must she be!

cd76

Pkiernan wrote: »

I haven't seen or heard anything from Mary Lou, Slab Murphy and other good Republicans in ages.

What's going on?

They'be been shifting some ATMs around Dundalk and Forkhill in South Armagh.

all about the mane

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Varadkar is doing alright amongst the Nordies......they have him ahead of O'Neill.

Even the Nationalist/Republicans have him ahead of O'Neill - if he's as bad as SF make out, how bad must she be!

Wow, that’s some luck in the teeth for the shinners around here!

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Inquiry into what exactly from the HSE perspective? They never said a contract had been finalized.

PM made a claim and has access to the relevant documents, he is in a position to clarify why he claimed an order was in place.

P.S. PM is a foreign politician and owes me no explanation. It's just funny to me how you have a different standard for SF politicians.

You are not going to believe Murphy...where does that leave us?

The HSE have to say what happened.

I am not talking about an Inquiry, I am talking making inquiries into what happened.
Murphy has said what he believes happened...you don't accept that. What now?

Yes..you want him to agree to your version of what happened. Stop being ridiculous, we simply need both sides of the story. :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady

all about the mane wrote: »

Wow, that’s some luck in the teeth for the shinners around here!

Why?

It isn't a comparison as far as I can see. And he isn't a leader in the north.
Are we running away with ourselves a bit here.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are not going to believe Murphy...where does that leave us?

The HSE have to say what happened.

I am not talking about an Inquiry, I am talking making inquiries into what happened.
Murphy has said what he believes happened...you don't accept that. What now?

Yes..you want him to agree to your version of what happened. Stop being ridiculous, we simply need both sides of the story. :rolleyes:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-conor-murphy-denies-misleading-assembly-over-ppe-1.4224390

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-hse-confirms-no-joint-order-for-ppe-with-northern-ireland-1.4220378

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/when-starting-pay-ps170m-ppe-stormont-minister-was-told-it-wasnt-coming-2533723

Bit more detail above.

SF simply jumped the gun before the order was finalized to try and show they were in control of the situation. MON claimed a contract had been signed, PM says he never said a contract was signed just an order placed. Did MON see a signed contract or did his department say one was signed?

SF made a mess of it, HSE has no questions to answer.

road_high

all about the mane wrote: »

Wow, that’s some luck in the teeth for the shinners around here!

Makes complete sense- The Taoiseach and FG have been the only ones doing anything anyway tangible for Northern Nationalists- looking out for their interests from Brexit to now Covid 19, while SF were floundering making videos about it.

The government in England seem more than happy too to "let them at it" allowing bit of Northern policy follow South as appropriate. BoJo referenced his constant contact with the Taoiseach a few times. It wasn't Ms O'Neill he was calling.
FG have done more practically and diplomatically to unite the country than SF whining and rabble rousing has ever done. Any sensible reasoned Northern Nationalist can appreciate and see that as poll confirms.

road_high

Not to mention our Government sorting the North out with PPE. SF were probably making videos about that too, I haven't seen.

all about the mane

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why?

It isn't a comparison as far as I can see. And he isn't a leader in the north.
Are we running away with ourselves a bit here.

Then you need to look harder

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-conor-murphy-denies-misleading-assembly-over-ppe-1.4224390

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-hse-confirms-no-joint-order-for-ppe-with-northern-ireland-1.4220378

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/when-starting-pay-ps170m-ppe-stormont-minister-was-told-it-wasnt-coming-2533723

Bit more detail above.

SF simply jumped the gun before the order was finalized to try and show they were in control of the situation. MON claimed a contract had been signed, PM says he never said a contract was signed just an order placed. Did MON see a signed contract or did his department say one was signed?

SF made a mess of it, HSE has no questions to answer.

So this whole thing was about a 'contract' or an 'agreement' and the interpretation of same. Michelle O'Neill used the wrong term - what an appaling blunder, off with her head.

He seems to have satisfied the moderate Unionist anyhow:

Mr Aiken concluded by saying that, having heard the evidence, he was “content” and had “no doubt that you were doing your best and were trying to do your best in particularly trying circumstances”.

Interesting in his answers that he understood that there were people on the ground monitoring the quality of the items and that it was an 'established supply chain'.

FrancieBrady

all about the mane wrote: »

Then you need to look harder

What does, 'How has each performed in the context of their own position and responsibilities?' mean to you?

all about the mane

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What does, 'How has each performed in the context of their own position and responsibilities?' mean to you?

It’s an assessment of each leader. These are then all put on the same graph to allow comparison. This is really simple stuff francie

James Brown

People in FG still afraid of SF?
When do we think they'll realise it's not SF but them? Never I suppose...egos won't allow it.

FrancieBrady

all about the mane wrote: »

It’s an assessment of each leader. These are then all put on the same graph to allow comparison. This is really simple stuff francie

Oh FFS. Poor poor you. Lordy! :D

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So this whole thing was about a 'contract' or an 'agreement' and the interpretation of same. Michelle O'Neill used the wrong term - what an appaling blunder, off with her head.

He seems to have satisfied the moderate Unionist anyhow:




Interesting in his answers that he understood that there were people on the ground monitoring the quality of the items and that it was an 'established supply chain'.

So you agree it was poor communication and a lack of diligence on the part of the SF ministers rather than an issue with the HSE?

Mr Aiken concluded by saying that, having heard the evidence, he was “content” and had “no doubt that you were doing your best and were trying to do your best in particularly trying circumstances”.

He made an understandable mistake in the circumstances maybe you should show the same level of understanding to our Ministers.

Mr Murphy replied: “Well, I think that anybody who places an order like that from China is basing it on the fact that there are people on the ground to try to establish the quality of it, the quantity of it and...we were operating on the back of an established supply line.”

That shows a lot of naivety and lack of understanding of logistics in healthcare on his part to assume a team where on the ground especially for an established supply line.