"Everyday Racism"

DelaneyIn

Gardaí are investigating Monday’s Black Lives Matter protest in Dublin with a view to potentially prosecuting organisers for their role in such a large public gathering during the Covid-19 lockdown.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-investigate-dublin-black-lives-matter-protest-over-covid-19-rule-breach-1.4268919

They should cancel the COVID-19 payment of the people involved in this protest. Trying to show solitary to people in another country while giving zero ****s about their own. Very smart.

Gradius

There comes a certain point where you just go back to basics.

All these increasingly complicated and unworkable "solutions" to having crowds of different people forced into living with each other don't...work!

I'm sure many people have rented shared accommodation at one point or another, and have had to deal with housemates that were a pain in the arse. The conclusion was always the same, you go, or they go.

To extend into analogy, imagine the landlord instructing the tenants about words they can and can't use, food they can and cannot eat, ideas they can and cannot express, traditions they must and must not accept...nightmare for everyone.

End of story. That's the solution that works. Everything else is a fruitless exercise in irritation for all concerned.

Calhoun

Segregation has proven time and time again that it does not work, silo'ing communities just makes the barriers worse.

Mixing people together is the way to go however, what we have seen for the most part has been poor implementation. If you don't have a set rules for living together in a harmony and don't reinforce them you just end up causing a bigger problem.

Calhoun

Calhoun wrote: »

Segregation has proven time and time again that it does not work, silo'ing communities just makes the barriers worse.

Mixing people together is the way to go however, what we have seen for the most part has been poor implementation. If you don't have a set rules for living together in a harmony and don't reinforce them you just end up causing a bigger problem.

And how do you enforce the rules without being accused of racism.

Calhoun

Deleted User wrote: »

And how do you enforce the rules without being accused of racism.

That is why you need to basically call bull**** on people using a race card to excuse bad behavior.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

And how do you enforce the rules without being accused of racism.

I was wondering that too.

Black communities grow because Black people prefer to live among other black people. Regardless of whether there is actual racism in other areas, they're often very community driven, which lessens the desire to expand into other areas. Same with Hispanics. There will be individuals who break the cultural norm, but, you see it abroad too. Black people tend to live near other black people, whenever they're a minority. It's very much the case in Asia with the Black communities in cities.

Calhoun

Calhoun wrote: »

That is why you need to basically call bull**** on people using a race card to excuse bad behavior.

Yeah, but isn't the point to prevent segregation or islands of racial groups? It's not really about bad behavior as such. It's just that there tends to negative results when such is commonplace in a nation.

Calhoun

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, but isn't the point to prevent segregation or islands of racial groups? It's not really about bad behavior as such. It's just that there tends to negative results when such is commonplace in a nation.

Well that is what i meant that you mix groups together, my main thing about behavior was to the point that it doesn't work because of negative consequences.

Gradius

Calhoun wrote: »

Segregation has proven time and time again that it does not work, silo'ing communities just makes the barriers worse.

Mixing people together is the way to go however, what we have seen for the most part has been poor implementation. If you don't have a set rules for living together in a harmony and don't reinforce them you just end up causing a bigger problem.

I see the point your making, but people want to group together. It's a natural inclination and nothing will ever change that.

But beyond that, I think it has never been more evident worldwide that mixing people together does not work.

Instead of worrying yourself to death as to how to move a whale into your home and build an aquarium and where will you get food and how will you afford it and what if it gets sick and....just don't get a whale. "Problem" solved. Look at the bigger picture of the origin of your "problem".

Instead of trying in vain to force people to get along with each other, don't bring in outside people.

This goes as equally for Ireland as it does for South Africa. People self-divided over vast amounts of time through misery and violence to create countries in which to live together with people they want to live with in somewhat harmony.

Undoing that is trouble with a capital T, exemplified right now by the United States.

It will never be any more simple than this nor complicated than this. The whole thing is an artificial problem that was created out of thin air, there's nothing natural about it.

ExMachina1000

gw80 wrote: »

I dont know,
Has anyone stopped to think for a minute that maybe multiculturism just doesnt work,
I mean, they say its a great thing but if it was such a good thing then why is it so hard to make it work?
Laws have to be made, and punishments dished out .
And it seems that white europeans seem to be the only race of people who want to promote the dilution of their race, the chinese have no interest, the japanese, asians, africans, middle easterns, none of them have any interest in multiculturism, but europeans cant seem to disolve their ethnicity fast enought,
Funny that.

You won't see many complaining in China that the government isn't diversified enough.

Calhoun

Gradius wrote: »

I see the point your making, but people want to group together. It's a natural inclination and nothing will ever change that.

But beyond that, I think it has never been more evident worldwide that mixing people together does not work.

Instead of worrying yourself to death as to how to move a whale into your home and build an aquarium and where will you get food and how will you afford it and what if it gets sick and....just don't get a whale. "Problem" solved. Look at the bigger picture of the origin of your "problem".

Instead of trying in vain to force people to get along with each other, don't bring in outside people.

This goes as equally for Ireland as it does for South Africa. People self-divided over vast amounts of time through misery and violence to create countries in which to live together with people they want to live with in somewhat harmony.

Undoing that is trouble with a capital T, exemplified right now by the United States.

It will never be any more simple than this nor complicated than this. The whole thing is an artificial problem that was created out of thin air, there's nothing natural about it.

Nobody is saying we should be importing people on mass the make sure we have mixed groups together but when we do get new people in our country we have to make sure we have a plan for it.

The problem in the US is caused exactly because of segregation and alienation of one group. Throughout its history minorities have shared similar fates to black people.

Gradius

Calhoun wrote: »

Nobody is saying we should be importing people on mass the make sure we have mixed groups together but when we do get new people in our country we have to make sure we have a plan for it.

The problem in the US is caused exactly because of segregation and alienation of one group. Throughout its history minorities have shared similar fates to black people.

I know what you mean. I've just gone full circle on the whole lot of it.

People will self segregate no matter what. It just takes longer than the USA way of doing things. You can see examples m everywhere.

For me there is no ignoring the root of the problem anymore and I see no value in placating an impossible problem. And, very much to the point, it is a problem that does not have to exist.

I don't have to worry about Ramadan and insulting or upsetting a housemate if I choose not to have that housemate in the first place. Equally, the housemate doesn't have to worry about me.

It's back to basics and to hell with jamming a square through a circle anymore

Clarence Boddiker

Calhoun wrote: »

Segregation has proven time and time again that it does not work, silo'ing communities just makes the barriers worse.

Mixing people together is the way to go however, what we have seen for the most part has been poor implementation. If you don't have a set rules for living together in a harmony and don't reinforce them you just end up causing a bigger problem.

Having to force different groups to live together because their natural inclination is to live around their own is all the proof you need that Multiculturalism doesn't work.

mr_fegelien

Stefan Molyneux was saying that multiculturalism (though I don't know if Europeans themselves have a different culture) only works when people values enable them to contribute to the economic growth of a country.

If you think about it, multiculturalism only seems to be a problem with African and Muslim people who's culture is said not to be conducive to economic success of immigrants. You never hear people complaining about multiculturalism when it comes to Asian, European, or Jewish immigrants and that's because their culture generally promotes values or hard work and perseverance which are on par with the values of the country of the people that they're emigrating to.

starrygleam11

enricoh wrote: »

Disability allowance is where it's at, jobs seekers allowance and sent off on some stupid course or else 20hrs on some Mickey mouse scheme is for suckers.

I have Polish friend shes a girl shes been here sińce she was 7 did school went to college got cancer at 22 so what ? Are u going to be racist to her just becouse shes in receipt of diasability ? Its not peoples fault that they get sick? And are u normal when a person is seriously ill physically and mentally some arent able to work full time so maybe stop bashing people just becouse they are weaker than you maybe doing a ****ty course that u said or 20 hrs a week or even 4 makes them feel better then listening to disgusting **** like this.its either live or kill yourself and if u live u take small steps to get better bull**** talk like this doesnt help anyone and never will grow up.

goose2005

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

You won't see many complaining in China that the government isn't diversified enough.

Yes you will. There are many ethnic minorities in China. Typically the local governor of a minority area will be a member of the minority group (e.g. a Mongol in Inner Mongolia), while the party secretary, the real power in the province, will be Han. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/ethnic-minority-elites-in-chinas-party-state-leadership-an-empirical-assessment/

Calhoun

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Having to force different groups to live together because their natural inclination is to live around their own is all the proof you need that Multiculturalism doesn't work.

The only time you would be forcing people to live together is under social house, you should not build ghetto's from that perspective.

If you can afford to live where you want then go knock yourself out. Normal societal rules and laws should apply.

Gradius

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Having to force different groups to live together because their natural inclination is to live around their own is all the proof you need that Multiculturalism doesn't work.

Don't forget to see the forest for the trees!

This is precisely the origin of countries. People group together because they want to. They grow in number. It forms a protected community that works for itself as much as it can. It grows into several communities of kinship. It eventually forms a "country".

What we see in many places now is, essentially, the seeding of proto-countries within existing countries. It's disaster waiting to happen or, in some cases, already happening.

The protests and rioting in the United States isn't about some dude that got killed, or police, or institutions, or even "racism" in some ways. It's about power and ownership.

It is about one group of people losing control to another group over who owns the country, who the police are for, who decisions are made for etc. Demands for equality are nothing but a stepping stone to superiority. All people are the same.

goose2005

CrankyHaus wrote: »

It's the Irish State Broadcaster preaching to Irish people that they need to "recognise and counter the privilege within themselves so that they can correct unconsciously damaging behaviours and help other white people to do better too".



This argument takes as its starting point the position that we, as white Irish people, are privileged, unconsciously racist and need to do better; in other words that we're bad.



If you're old enough to remember what this country was like when the Church ran the show you should be able to recognise the parallels with original sin and penance to keep people in line.

at least with original sin there was the possibility of redemption

goose2005

DulchieLaois wrote: »

3. There are videos being shared on social media by kids of African American descent portraying guards as being bad ass and heavy handed, and yet I never see any other race like Chinese or Eastern European doing this,I feel that this is an area that is be exploited and an dangerous precedent.

it's hard to avoid the feeling that they really want to be oppressed, they're jealous of African-Americans that get to be the Most Oppressed People Ever

statesaver

starrygleam11 wrote: »

I have Polish friend shes a girl shes been here sińce she was 7 did school went to college got cancer at 22 so what ? Are u going to be racist to her just becouse shes in receipt of diasability ? Its not peoples fault that they get sick? And are u normal when a person is seriously ill physically and mentally some arent able to work full time so maybe stop bashing people just becouse they are weaker than you maybe doing a ****ty course that u said or 20 hrs a week or even 4 makes them feel better then listening to disgusting **** like this.its either live or kill yourself and if u live u take small steps to get better bull**** talk like this doesnt help anyone and never will grow up.

You missed what the poster was implying plus white people CANNOT be racist to other white people.

Gradius

Gradius wrote: »

Don't forget to see the forest for the trees!

This is precisely the origin of countries. People group together because they want to. They grow in number. It forms a protected community that works for itself as much as it can. It grows into several communities of kinship. It eventually forms a "country".

Not quite. The community is part of a city. That's how things work in the modern world, and that community, should it consist of the uneducated, and lacking in financial resources or employment, will turn into some form of Ghetto. Which, in turn, emphasis the more negative aspects of culture. Black culture and Hispanic cultures in the US generate different negative aspects from their culture, but it amounts to the same thing. A circle of inequalities growing.

That's happened around the world. Not just the US. Like the Turkish community in Frankfurt.

What we see in many places now is, essentially, the seeding of proto-countries within existing countries. It's disaster waiting to happen or, in some cases, already happening.

The protests and rioting in the United States isn't about some dude that got killed, or police, or institutions, or even "racism" in some ways. It's about power and ownership.

It is about one group of people losing control to another group over who owns the country, who the police are for, who decisions are made for etc. Demands for equality are nothing but a stepping stone to superiority. All people are the same.

It's about economics, culture and education. The black communities tend to have very low levels of education, which results in the need of more casual/menial/factory employment... which a modern world isn't particularly driven towards. Except in services, which is generally seen as low level employment in the States. Just as the culture affects them which can be seen by the high numbers of single mothers, and the "broken" homes, which tends to produce more people who become disruptive.. which results in more social instability. There's heaps of reasons for what's happening, even without talking about the failings or racist tendencies of the non-black leadership. That's reflected in many minority communities within cities across the States.

In Europe, it also relates to education, culture and economics. Economic refugees typically don't have the education (or language) required to do well in a first world nation, and based on reports from Germany (who have an excellent educational system), migrants do very poor in education, including learning the host language. They also don't have much money on arriving, relying on welfare or the "black" economy of casual work. And in many cases, their culture prohibits them from integrating, which means they stand out from the crowd.

It's not simply about lack of power. It's about the inability to compete on a level playing field with the majority racial group. In the US, educated Black people do very well, and there are examples of prosperous & peaceful black communities. The Black middle class which have done well for themselves... because they've gained the education, and don't live within the general communities which are poor.

Demands for equality will do nothing because they're looking for more than equality. They're looking for benefits. Even should actual racial equality be achieved (which is doubtful), they'll still be disadvantaged due to education and culture. there will be individuals who break from the group, by achieving their education, and gaining good employment, but chances are, they'll be held back by family commitments or some misguided pressure that they remain loyal to the poor... Black culture, or many migrant cultures have very strong demands on people to conform to the mainstream demands of their community. Hence the focus on gangs in the US, or the smaller issues with gangs in Europe (although in Europe Religion is a bigger issue).

SporadicMan

What? all of it? :rolleyes:

Or just the history of African Americans...?

Bloody stupid idea.

iebamm2580

One girl on twitter said if Ireland is not racist then how come irish is taught to all children, no lie i deleted my account soon after.

Cordell

No, not all of it, only the good parts.

iebamm2580

iebamm2580 wrote: »

One girl on twitter said if Ireland is not racist then how come irish is taught to all children, no lie i deleted my account soon after.

The sad part is that Ireland is doing quite well economically. We could be encouraging immigration for people whose skills are in demand and high intelligence, to make Ireland even more competitive in a global market.

Instead, we get morons like that. Although I guess it was an Irish person who said it. The decline in birth rates for first world nations unfortunately doesn't mean an improvement in those being born.

iebamm2580

Deleted User wrote: »

The sad part is that Ireland is doing quite well economically. We could be encouraging immigration for people whose skills are in demand and high intelligence, to make Ireland even more competitive in a global market.

Instead, we get morons like that. Although I guess it was an Irish person who said it. The decline in birth rates for first world nations unfortunately doesn't mean an improvement in those being born.

Dont think her parents were born here anyway, she may have been, i didnt inquire ha.

Mr. Karate

Deleted User wrote: »

What? all of it? :rolleyes:

Or just the history of African Americans...?

Bloody stupid idea.

Africans haven't been around in Ireland long enough to be considered historical [unless RTE starts some rewriting of history] and everything they have here has been handed to them on a silver platter [even though they like to pretend otherwise] so they haven't actually had to fight for anything here.

Mr. Karate

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Dont think her parents were born here anyway, she may have been, i didnt inquire ha.

Obviously not. Otherwise they would have clued her in that Irish is taught in Irish schools.

tonycascarino

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Africans haven't been around in Ireland long enough to be considered historical [unless RTE starts some rewriting of history] and everything they have here has been handed to them on a silver platter [even though they like to pretend otherwise] so they haven't actually had to fight for anything here.

Why would anyone even bother to entertain these lads. As the saying goes ..'Give an inch and they would take a mile'....

Geuze

Will Celtic history be taught in Togo, Benin or Chad?

Eric Cartman

SporadicMan wrote: »

wouldn't mind this actually, especially if we highlight the notable parts about the rate of unemployment of Nigerian migrants, the illegal ways in which many have sought entry into the country, the many headlined cases of welfare fraud, violent crime and of course the credit card skimming gangs.

A proud Nigerian-Irish person such as herself should be all too happy for Irelands school children to learn of the very rich tapestry their community has woven in our welfare and criminal justice systems.

TBH rather than focusing on teaching Black history, or shift the focus away from our own history, wouldn't it make more sense to introduce practical subjects like programming, business administration, home planning/finances, Avoiding credit card debt, etc.

There are so many areas that children/teens aren't taught about, that adults are simply expected to learn for themselves... and judging by our modern society, many adults are failing to learn, with serious consequences. How about another European language, or an international language like Chinese, or Spanish, which could improve their chance of employment after Leaving certificate (should University not be an option)?

Eric Cartman

Deleted User wrote: »

TBH rather than focusing on teaching Black history, or shift the focus away from our own history, wouldn't it make more sense to introduce practical subjects like programming, business administration, home planning/finances, Avoiding credit card debt, etc.

There are so many areas that children/teens aren't taught about, that adults are simply expected to learn for themselves... and judging by our modern society, many adults are failing to learn, with serious consequences. How about another European language, or an international language like Chinese, or Spanish, which could improve their chance of employment after Leaving certificate (should University not be an option)?

that would actually be a good idea and create a financially stable productive workforce, the left would never go for it.

ELM327

Eric Cartman wrote: »

that would actually be a good idea and create a financially stable productive workforce, the left would never go for it.

Unemployment and state support is such a vote getter for them, theyd never go for fixing the problem at source


Just like homelessness, too much big business for the "charities" involved.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

that would actually be a good idea and create a financially stable productive workforce, the left would never go for it.

TBF it's not just the left anymore. The "right" have their connections with the various businesses that support/enable the poor, the migrants, welfare, etc. It's big money for various businesses in terms of government support, or the spending habits of their customers.

While Ireland is a very well developed country with a great standard of living.. one of the main detractors is the limited thinking regarding long term planning, and real attempts to nip problems in the bud before they actually become problems.

That's been the case with the migrants, welfare, obesity, city level crime, transport infrastructure, etc. Too many fingers in the pies preventing real change from occurring except as an unexpected side effect.

Snickers Man

statesaver wrote: »

Social welfare dependency , which is high in certain immigrant communities.,is not wanted. Pointing things like that out gets people labelled ' racist '. Yawn.

It's pretty damned high in "certain" indigenous communities as well. Yawn. And speaking as a former emigrant, I can say with a high degree of personal experience and quite a lot of observed experience that emigrants typically travel in search of opportunity, not welfare.

But of course pointing that out often gets you labelled a "libtard", "virtue signaller" "woke intersectionalist" yadda yadda bore bore bore.

Ulysses Gaze

SporadicMan wrote: »

Why focus on Americans? And why only positive?

Snickers Man

Snickers Man wrote: »

It's pretty damned high in "certain" indigenous communities as well. Yawn. And speaking as a former emigrant, I can say with a high degree of personal experience and quite a lot of observed experience that emigrants typically travel in search of opportunity, not welfare.

But of course pointing that out often gets you labelled a "libtard", "virtue signaller" "woke intersectionalist" yadda yadda bore bore bore.

Does it? As I'm on a lot of these kind of threads, and I haven't seen many such comments. Could you link me to some of these responses to your posts? (I suspect if it does happen, it's for more than pointing out that migrants come looking for work, than welfare)

In any case, the vast majority of objections to migrants, don't relate to those who enter through the normal legal channels (outside of asylum/refugee) where the migrant has the education, and funds to provide for themselves. The issue being with those who can't provide for themselves and so, become a drain on the State, and as they're poor, they might turn to criminal/disruptive behavior. Which we don't need more of.

Yes?

Gatling

Snickers Man wrote: »

I can say with a high degree of personal experience and quite a lot of observed experience that emigrants typically travel in search of opportunity, not welfare.

But there is a substantial number who have travelled to here and elsewhere in Europe due for lifelong social welfare and long term housing .

There is migrants all over the world , traveling to work and are able to relocate due to having a decent 3rd level education and skills ,
But then there is the bogus asylum seekers who know once they arrive with a sob story there set for life and if anybody challenges the narrative is spun to begrudgery or jealousy and racism .

titan18

I'm pretty sure Martin Luther King is touched on in secondary school history. Might be at LC cycle but im pretty sure there was a topic on it.

Anyway, itd be kinda racist to just pick out black history. You'd have to pick out Asian, Islam etc history too which as far as I remember had zero topics on it.

Galwayguy35

SporadicMan wrote: »

Excellent idea, hopefully they will include the part about how Nigerian tribal chiefs were involved in the slave trade and became very rich selling them to Arabs for hundreds of years and later on in the 17th and 18th centuries to Europeans.

Gatling

What about Eastern European studies in primary schools ,

Gatling

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Excellent idea, hopefully they will include the part about how Nigerian tribal chiefs

Correct me if I'm wrong but in the pictures bar Nelson Mandela (south Africa) the rest of the images are of black Americans .

So do they want black history or American history ?

Ulysses Gaze

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Excellent idea, hopefully they will include the part about how Nigerian tribal chiefs were involved in the slave trade and became very rich selling them to Arabs for hundreds of years and later on in the 17th and 18th centuries to Europeans.

And the likes of Sani Abacha, Charles Taylor, Idi Amin, Haile Selassie, Robert Mugabe, Omar Al-Bashir, Idriss Deby, Mobutu Sese Seko etc, etc.

Mr. Karate

tonycascarino wrote: »

Why would anyone even bother to entertain these lads. As the saying goes ..'Give an inch and they would take a mile'....

They shouldn't. Apparently there a BLM matter here in Kilkenny the other day and ofcourse one of the speakers had to claim that she was told to go back to Africa since coming here in 2010. Much like the on RTE today who claims his young son was told to F Off back to where you came from.

Mr. Karate

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Excellent idea, hopefully they will include the part about how Nigerian tribal chiefs were involved in the slave trade and became very rich selling them to Arabs for hundreds of years and later on in the 17th and 18th centuries to Europeans.

They don't want it that deep. Just the bits to reinforce the "Blacks are oppressed" narrative.

Ulysses Gaze

Gatling wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but in the pictures bar Nelson Mandela (south Africa) the rest of the images are of black Americans .

So do they want black history or American history ?

No Steve Biko. No Albert John Luthuli. No Desmond Tutu. Or any other Black African Nobel Prize winners either.

Mr. Karate

Gatling wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but in the pictures bar Nelson Mandela (south Africa) the rest of the images are of black Americans .

So do they want black history or American history ?

You can bet they won't get into any Mandela's atrocities. Just this angelic figure we're supposed to believe he came after prison.