Ryanair and their cancellations

Irish Steve

Not making excuses for Ryanair, but while airline staff may be deemed essential, they are not exempt from social separation rules, and very few call centres meet those requirements, so they will be short staffed

Working from home in that scenario may not be straghtforward, due to network and security requrements. Getting things like firewalls configured to allow access for home workers, and yet block internet fraudsters who may well be using the same IP blocks is not going to be easy, even more so with the dynamic addressing that most ISP providers are using, and that presumes they have all the necessary hardware in place to do it. Getting it wrong is not an option in this situation, allowing a hacker to get inside the firewalls will not go down well with the data protection regulators!

troyzer

Irish Steve wrote: »

Not making excuses for Ryanair, but while airline staff may be deemed essential, they are not exempt from social separation rules, and very few call centres meet those requirements, so they will be short staffed

Working from home in that scenario may not be straghtforward, due to network and security requrements. Getting things like firewalls configured to allow access for home workers, and yet block internet fraudsters who may well be using the same IP blocks is not going to be easy, even more so with the dynamic addressing that most ISP providers are using, and that presumes they have all the necessary hardware in place to do it. Getting it wrong is not an option in this situation, allowing a hacker to get inside the firewalls will not go down well with the data protection regulators!

It's really not that complicated. My girlfriend works for a major payments company which has unbelievably strict requirements known as PCI compliance.

There was a day or two of getting things setup and then everyone in her company could remote in. They have much higher security requirements than a merchant like Ryanair.

It's not rocket science, they're seeing every other airline get away with and know that the regulators won't be able to hammer everyone. So they're trying to protect their reserves. I don't blame them, nor do I blame them for giving out a bull**** excuse.

But please, don't drink the Kool-aid

paddy19

Irish Steve wrote: »

Not making excuses for Ryanair, but while airline staff may be deemed essential, they are not exempt from social separation rules, and very few call centres meet those requirements, so they will be short staffed

Working from home in that scenario may not be straghtforward, due to network and security requrements. Getting things like firewalls configured to allow access for home workers, and yet block internet fraudsters who may well be using the same IP blocks is not going to be easy, even more so with the dynamic addressing that most ISP providers are using, and that presumes they have all the necessary hardware in place to do it. Getting it wrong is not an option in this situation, allowing a hacker to get inside the firewalls will not go down well with the data protection regulators!

With due respect. the computer security issue is a diversion, Michael O'Leary's Ryanair were processing refunds up to very recently. He could have continued to process the refunds. I think everybody understands that this is a unique situation and it would take time.

He has now said, according to the Irish Times that he is not processing any refunds until covid is over. Which is probably at least 12 months.
The law requires a cash refund must be proceeded within 7 days.

What changed was our illustrious temporary minister Ross decided to try to introduce "a lets get consumers to give MOL an interest free loan scheme".

MOL being an accountant so an opportunity to flog vouchers rather than refund cash and suddenly he had security issues with his computers.

Vouchers are a much better deal for Ryanair. They are a crap deal for us consumers.

As a side issue. MOL and his 300 IT wizards in Ryanair Labs could automate this refund process in jig time. Validate the info on the refund request form, validate flight was cancelled. Process refund. No need for human intervention at all.

paddy19

Caranica wrote: »

I applied on 11 March. Got the same email as Paddy19 this week with a voucher. I'll be going to the CAR as per the ECC on the stroke of 6 weeks

Did you get an actual voucher or the offer of a voucher?

Caranica

paddy19 wrote: »

Did you get an actual voucher or the offer of a voucher?

They sent a voucher number in the email and a link to a form to apply for a refund. Which I already did on 11 March and followed up with them on 30 March when they told me I'd have to wait another 28 days. My weird scenario is that I received a partial refund immediately... It was on application for the outbound flight. But I didn't get the return sector.

iebamm2580

Dear Customer,

The spread of the Covid-19 Virus and associated Government travel restrictions, continues to have a negative impact on the schedules of all Ryanair Group Airlines.

As a result of this we want to offer our customers as much flexibility as possible in relation to their scheduled travel plans. We are now offering you the following options in relation to your booked flight.

· You can change your flight to any date in the next 3 months, up to Aug 31 2020.
· The flight change fee will be waived in full.
· You will only have to pay the difference in fare.
· This flight date change will only apply to the route you have already booked.
· Please do not try to change to another date in May.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused by this unprecedented crisis. The safety and well-being of our people and customers is our main priority, and we are working closely with the state authorities and we will follow any travel restrictions that are imposed and will continue to comply with all WHO and EASA guidelines to combat the Covid-19 virus.

To change your travel date, click on My Bookings below.

Am i missing something, i cant see anything about a refund on this?

paddy19

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Am i missing something, i cant see anything about a refund on this?

This is outrageous.
You are entitled to a cash refund under EU 261.
Ryanair are also required to tell you that are entitled to a cash refund.

This is a clear breach of the law and should be highlighted to the regulator.

I would also complete the refund form immediately.
At least that will clarify what you want.

The Airlines are hustling the politicians like Ross to get these vouchers accepted.

There is certainly a chance that they will get away with it.

Please contact you TDs.

I would ask them why Shane Ross thinks you should be forced to give Michael O'Leary an interest free loan.

iebamm2580

paddy19 wrote: »

This is outrageous.
You are entitled to a cash refund under EU 261.
Ryanair are also required to tell you that are entitled to a cash refund.

This is a clear breach of the law and should be highlighted to the regulator.

I would also complete the refund form immediately.
At least that will clarify what you want.

The Airlines are hustling the politicians like Ross to get these vouchers accepted.

There is certainly a chance that they will get away with it.

Please contact you TDs.

I would ask them why Shane Ross thinks you should be forced to give Michael O'Leary an interest free loan.

But i wasn't even sent a refund form or offered it, it just seems i have to re-book a flight and pick a date thats not more than 3 months from now, i would be ok even if i had to get av voucher like aerlingus are making me do for my out going flight.

crazy 88

Irish Steve wrote: »

Not making excuses for Ryanair, but while airline staff may be deemed essential, they are not exempt from social separation rules, and very few call centres meet those requirements, so they will be short staffed

Working from home in that scenario may not be straghtforward, due to network and security requrements. Getting things like firewalls configured to allow access for home workers, and yet block internet fraudsters who may well be using the same IP blocks is not going to be easy, even more so with the dynamic addressing that most ISP providers are using, and that presumes they have all the necessary hardware in place to do it. Getting it wrong is not an option in this situation, allowing a hacker to get inside the firewalls will not go down well with the data protection regulators!

VPNs are very easy to set up. There are companies a fraction the size of Ryanair who have managed to set them up during this crisis. And you are very gullible if you believe Ryanair didn't have this already set up long before this all started. This is nothing but a stalling tactic from them

pablo57

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Dear Customer,

The spread of the Covid-19 Virus and associated Government travel restrictions, continues to have a negative impact on the schedules of all Ryanair Group Airlines.

As a result of this we want to offer our customers as much flexibility as possible in relation to their scheduled travel plans. We are now offering you the following options in relation to your booked flight.

· You can change your flight to any date in the next 3 months, up to Aug 31 2020.
· The flight change fee will be waived in full.
· You will only have to pay the difference in fare.
· This flight date change will only apply to the route you have already booked.
· Please do not try to change to another date in May.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused by this unprecedented crisis. The safety and well-being of our people and customers is our main priority, and we are working closely with the state authorities and we will follow any travel restrictions that are imposed and will continue to comply with all WHO and EASA guidelines to combat the Covid-19 virus.

To change your travel date, click on My Bookings below.

Am i missing something, i cant see anything about a refund on this?

When is your flight(s)?

I'm guessing it hasn't officially been cancelled/the date hasn't passed yet, hence the lack of mention of a refund.

iebamm2580

pablo57 wrote: »

When is your flight(s)?

I'm guessing it hasn't officially been cancelled/the date hasn't passed yet, hence the lack of mention of a refund.

Flying first week of may, i have no intention of getting the flight anytime soon again so re-booking is not an option for me.

paddy19

iebamm2580 wrote: »

But i wasn't even sent a refund form or offered it, it just seems i have to re-book a flight and pick a date thats not more than 3 months from now, i would be ok even if i had to get av voucher like aerlingus are making me do for my out going flight.

The refund form is on the web. You can just complete it, you don't need to be offered it by Ryanair. They should have told you. They review all refund forms and if they can find a way out of it they will refuse it.

Vouchers are lousy they limit your options but if it works for you, go for it.

They owe you a cash refund until the law is changed but it looks like our illustrious Minister wants you to fund the airline.

iebamm2580

paddy19 wrote: »

The refund form is on the web. You can just complete it, you don't need to be offered it by Ryanair. They should have told you. They review all refund forms and if they can find a way out of it they will refuse it.

Vouchers are lousy they limit your options but if it works for you, go for it.

They owe you a cash refund until the law is changed but it looks like our illustrious Minister wants you to fund the airline.[/QUOTE

cheers i will complete the form, its not ideal but its better than having to pick a date now for a flight i dont want. Looks like the airlines are going to get away with this voucher ****.

funkyouup

I had flights with Ryanair on 26 and 29 of April, Colleague got an email on the 7th( same flight as me but booked on his card) saying they were cancelled, i had no email but when i logged in the flght was showing as cancelled and let me proceed through the refund application process.

Got this the following morning -

Dear Customer,

I refer to your recent request for a refund on your booking confirmation xxxxxx.

Due to the high volume of flight cancellations due to COVID 19, we are experiencing an unprecedented high volume of requests. We are currently working through the backlog and ask that you please bear with us.

Please do not resubmit your request.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Yours sincerely,
Ryanair Customer Services

And this afternoon i got this one -

Our Ref: xxxxx

Dear Customer,

I refer to our recent correspondence regarding your refund request on booking xxxxx

As previously advised, our Customer Services Team are experiencing an unprecedented high volume of requests due to the COVID-19 crisis and we are prioritising our most vulnerable customers. This has been compounded by government public health restrictions on non-essential work travel which means we have less staff available to us during this busy time. Please rest assured your refund request is currently in the queue and will be processed. If you have selected new travel dates and would prefer to move your booking, please contact us

We appreciate your patience at this time.

Yours sincerely,
Ryanair Customer Services

Collie D

iebamm2580 wrote: »

paddy19 wrote: »

The refund form is on the web. You can just complete it, you don't need to be offered it by Ryanair. They should have told you. They review all refund forms and if they can find a way out of it they will refuse it.

Vouchers are lousy they limit your options but if it works for you, go for it.

They owe you a cash refund until the law is changed but it looks like our illustrious Minister wants you to fund the airline.

cheers i will complete the form, its not ideal but its better than having to pick a date now for a flight i dont want. Looks like the airlines are going to get away with this voucher ****.

Don’t fill in any forms until Ryanair cancel the flight. Doing it before then means you are the one cancelling and you’ll only be entitled to tax back minus an admin fee which will likely wipe that out.

pablo57

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Flying first week of may, i have no intention of getting the flight anytime soon again so re-booking is not an option for me.

Like most people, but they won't offer a refund as they haven't officially cancelled the flight yet. Just need to sit tight.

JimmyVik

easypazz wrote: »

I don't get the vulnerable customers bit, what are they exactly in terms of refunds?

If you are a customer of Ryanair you are vulnerable

JimmyVik

paddy19 wrote: »

With due respect. the computer security issue is a diversion, Michael O'Leary's Ryanair were processing refunds up to very recently. He could have continued to process the refunds. I think everybody understands that this is a unique situation and it would take time.

He has now said, according to the Irish Times that he is not processing any refunds until covid is over. Which is probably at least 12 months.
The law requires a cash refund must be proceeded within 7 days.

What changed was our illustrious temporary minister Ross decided to try to introduce "a lets get consumers to give MOL an interest free loan scheme".

MOL being an accountant so an opportunity to flog vouchers rather than refund cash and suddenly he had security issues with his computers.

Vouchers are a much better deal for Ryanair. They are a crap deal for us consumers.

As a side issue. MOL and his 300 IT wizards in Ryanair Labs could automate this refund process in jig time. Validate the info on the refund request form, validate flight was cancelled. Process refund. No need for human intervention at all.

I think as soon as my flight dates pass I will be going straight to charge back with credit card. That will be faster than dealing with Ryaniar. This is not at all on from Ryanair.

JimmyVik

Caranica wrote: »

They sent a voucher number in the email and a link to a form to apply for a refund. Which I already did on 11 March and followed up with them on 30 March when they told me I'd have to wait another 28 days. My weird scenario is that I received a partial refund immediately... It was on application for the outbound flight. But I didn't get the return sector.

Out of curiosity, any sneaky terms to the voucher? Expiry, premium numbers, cost etc? Really there should be no terms to these vouchers. They should be the same as straight cash. to be used like cash

ronano

I've questions if anyone can bring clarity

1. I applied for refunds for flights that were meant to fly on 22 march and 1st April, will I get refund or fobbed off with vouchers?

2. I can initiate a chargeback when the amount of time is allowed, is there anything else I can do or any other organisation/regulator I should contact?

Thanks

paddy19

JimmyVik wrote: »

If you are a customer of Ryanair you are vulnerable

If you are a customer of any airline you are vulnerable.

In fairness to Ryanair they were processing refunds.

It was only after our caretaker Minister decided to support the IATA "free loans from passengers" BS that they conveniently found their computers couldn't manage a basic security process.

paddy19

I've questions if anyone can bring clarity

"1. I applied for refunds for flights that were meant to fly on 22 march and 1st April, will I get refund or fobbed off with vouchers?"

Possibility that the EU will bring in a variation of the IATA no refunds BS.
Don't take the vouchers until we have legal clarity.
The other problem is time. Michael O'Leary has said no refund until after the Covid is abated...whatever that means.

"2. I can initiate a chargeback when the amount of time is allowed, is there anything else I can do or any other organisation/regulator I should contact?"

Go for the chargeback, I'm not sure how successful you'll be but worth a try.

You could let you local TDs and minister Ross know that you object to giving an interest free loan to MOL.

TD's email addresses are in the standard format.
First name.Last name @oireachtas.ie

i.e. shane.ross@oireachtas.ie

Caranica

paddy19 wrote: »

You could let you local TDs and minister Ross know that you object to giving an interest free loan to MOL.

TD's email addresses are in the standard format.
First name.Last name @oireachtas.ie

i.e. shane.ross@oireachtas.ie

Shane Ross is not a TD so that address will not work for him. Non elected members lost their Oireachtas email addresses on 20 March.

Irish Steve

danmci wrote: »

VPNs are very easy to set up. There are companies a fraction the size of Ryanair who have managed to set them up during this crisis. And you are very gullible if you believe Ryanair didn't have this already set up long before this all started. This is nothing but a stalling tactic from them

No, not gullible. 50 YEARS of experience with computers, so I know about tricks that most people haven't even heard of.



Not defending Ryanair either, so that I am clear.

paddy19

Caranica wrote: »

Shane Ross is not a TD so that address will not work for him. Non elected members lost their Oireachtas email addresses on 20 March.

Thanks for that.

Isn't it wonderful, he can't have an Oireachtas email address but he can advocate as minister to screw consumers!

billy few mates

Apart from the legal implications of this policy of only issuing vouchers instead of a refund this policy is also in breach of Ryanair's own voucher policy which prohibits the purchase or use of vouchers by people under 16...

https://www.ryanair.com/ie/en/useful-info/help-centre/faq-overview/gift-vouchers/terms-and-conditions

Apart from this people are naturally wary of terms and conditions, difficulty to use, block out periods and expiry dates that you get with vouchers, particularly from airlines and stories like this where people trying to use Ryanair vouchers reported finding the fares more expensive than if they just tried to buy them don't particularly help...

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/03/passengers-rebooking-ryanair-flights-face-rip-off-change-fares/

I can see why the airlines would like to hang on to the money to maintain their cash balance so I don't know why they don't come up with something in between.
For example I don't want a voucher for my flight cancellation but I would be open to something like a credit so if they owe me €100 I don't want a voucher for €100 with all the complications and pitfalls and T&C's that surround that, I want my €100 back or I would consider letting them hold a credit of €100 for an agreed period of time or until I use it whenever I buy my next ticket.
Many of us have a Ryanair and Aer Lingus account, they have our details, they could easily log the money against it, then the next time you go to buy a flight you can use the €100 they have belonging to you to pay for your ticket like cash, NOT a voucher.
So they can hold on to the money to bolster their cash balance until I need it.

Caranica

paddy19 wrote: »

Thanks for that.

Isn't it wonderful, he can't have an Oireachtas email address but he can advocate as minister to screw consumers!

He still has a Department address. Should be on their website.

Pat Dunne

If you wish to highlight your concerns in regard of refunds from any Airline contact minister@dttas.gov.ie

Pat Dunne

paddy19 wrote: »

TD's email addresses are in the standard format.
First name.Last name @oireachtas.ie

i.e. shane.ross@oireachtas.ie

You are correct in regard of contacting a TD’s, Constituency Office. However this is not the same for contacting a Minister’s Office, these are two very distinct places.
If you wish to contact the Minister’s Office at the Dept of Transport and Communications it is as follows, minister@dttas.gov.ie

paddy19

There is a lot misleading chatter in the media about governments changing local laws to allow airlines to force vouchers on passengers instead of a cash refund.

This is misleading, only the EU commission can change EU regulations.

The EU261 regulation, which requires a cash refund, has what they call direct effect. This simply means that a Ryanair passenger can make a claim to the Swords District Court referencing EU261. It costs €25, is online, and you don't need a solicitor. Ryanair normally pay up without defending the case as they would have to engage a solicitor and know they wouldn't win.

Airlines cannot change Terms and Conditions that contravene EU regulations.

"Despite what seems like a plausible plea from the German government, the European Commission is currently unmoved to change its stance. It believes that airlines should continue to adhere to the current state of play. Lufthansa should be issuing refunds to all customers who need it or ask for it under the EU261 directive."

https://simpleflying.com/lufthansa-vouchers-refund/