Supporting craft breweries

Black Sheep

JW Sweetman? Do they actually brew on site?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119657065#Comment_119657065

Sweetmans.

breezy1985

Any good ?

I had always written it off as just a big tourist place.

BeerNut

If by "taproom" you mean a place where you can drink beer brewed onsite, central Dublin has Open Gate, JW Sweetman, Urban Brewing and BrewDog Outpost. However, Open Gate is the only one of those I'd classify as a taproom, and only just.

Hodors Appletart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658347#Comment_119658347

I don't like the pub, but the beers brewed there are by and large grand - there was a time when I considered their porter the best pound-for-pound pint available in Dublin.

It's not a taproom though, as they sell other macro beers. I think BeerNut is being a tad harsh on Urban Brewing by not considering it a taproom tbh, beers are brewed there and they sell them there.

Rascals is just slightly outside central but pretty well accessibly by tram.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119659325#Comment_119659325

Rascals looks about the same travel time as the breweries I considered "central" in London. Might check it out for a few before the train home next time.

It's a fluid term but what I would consider a taproom is somewhere with on site or nearby brewing that are staffed by a small team involved in or close to the brewing. My local examples would be Treaty and Crew.

Maybe I just don't know the place well enough but I struggle in Dublin to find things like craft bars and food markets that have become so popular in most cities.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119655787#Comment_119655787

Like the pubs you like. Your own attitude to the GBB pubs could be seen as fairly snotty, too...

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660260#Comment_119660260

I said I didn't like a pub. I didn't attack or roll my eyes at any other posters opinion.

There is a big difference.

Hodors Appletart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119659556#Comment_119659556

yeah, Rascals is the closest thing to those I suppose, but the bar staff wouldn't be involved in the brewing, and it's a proper pizza restaurant too - fyi, there's a distillery right next door that's worth a look if you make the trip out.

We don't have anything like the food markets (yet) and it's a damn shame imo.

I've had drinks served to me in three breweries in Dublin, but they were as a part of a tour I was on and not open to the general public. Hope Brewery has a room overlooking the brewhouse and to all intents and purposes it's set up like a taproom, but you need to be on a tour.

Black Sheep

GBB marches on... I had a few pints in Rua last night, another one of theirs.

I hear they have the Bru Bar in Fairview too.

Wish they kept a few craft beer taps going, in Rua last night it was the basic GBB line up and one Kinnegar tap.

BeerNut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119659325#Comment_119659325

We're getting into semantics here, but Urban is a bar and restaurant and its onsite brewery wouldn't exist without that, so it's not a brewery taproom. If selling macro beers rules a place out, then Urban is out too for selling Estrella Galicia from its parent brewery's parent brewery.

Hodors Appletart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119662714#Comment_119662714

the merger of Bru and GBB meant that new entity owns the properties/rentals of both - Rua was previously under Carrig, which was a previous merger too

Black Sheep

OK interesting.. Wonder where they see the overall range of beers going in terms of which get prioritised.

BeerNut

When the merger happened, one of the owners told me that as he saw it, Galway Bay's core range are pub beers while BRÚ's are primarily intended for cans and the off-trade. I found out recently that after the BRÚ brewery in Trim closed down, BRÚ production wasn't taken in-house by GBB in Oranmore but is contracted out to Dundalk Bay. Strange decision, but there you go.

Hodors Appletart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667348#Comment_119667348

it's tickling me that someone using the name "Black Sheep" doesn't know this information 😀

Black Sheep

I don't mind GBB really but overall I have to say again that it feels like the "golden age" of craft beer in pubs in Ireland was several years ago.

There were several good craft beer bars with genuinely wide ranging guest taps on the go, and crafty taps were popping up in lots of mainstream pubs. The situation now feels like we've backslid. There seems to be less of a selection in general, even in the likes of GBB pubs that persist, less rotating guest taps (and in particular foreign beers) in particular, and yet more macro-owned or 'fake' craft taps on the go.

Is there any chance that some of this is related to a hangover from the period of COVID, a slowdown in expansions by craft businesses, a difficulty getting and keeping staff...? Some of the developments related to the macros I know must be permanent. Can't imagine with the prospect of sky high energy bills for the next two years many people will be opening new places either.

Hodors Appletart

I'm sure it's related to covid - don't forget though, Underdog is on the way back in at least one venue, Big Romance are taking a spot in the Dice Bar, Dudleys is thriving on Thomas Street, and the opposite to you, I've noticed more and more real craft taps in more and more urban pubs, IPA/Pale Ale especially

Can't blame GBB for upping and pushing their own beers in their own bars imo, it's not incumbent on them to cheerlead for anyone but themselves imo, and their beers are usually of a decent quality.

In relation to the macros, I've noticed a huge proliferation of Moretti branding, awnings, seating etc in a load of places since the repoening, so they are definitely supplying that stuff for god knows what sort of kickback or perks.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669932#Comment_119669932

The fake craft is a greedy backlash by the big breweries to regain the tiny bit of ground lost. Then you also had breweries who cashed in and some who were always set up (not a dig, make your money). I've seen the same in the UK where former craft pubs now pay lip service with a Meantime or Camden tie.

Another problem unique to Ireland is we rely on the huge output of British seasonals to keep the taps interesting and Brexit has killed British beer exports. It's even worse in the craft offies who are completely devoid of British craft nowadays.

Generally though for a place like Limerick that was starting from from a low base things are still getting better. GBB was a pre Covid casualty but added Crew and Treaty and Mother Mac's just keep getting more popular.

Tinter Box

One positive from the pandemic has been ability to get beer delivered at home fresh from brewery which impacts me heading out as much in Dublin to find new stuff.

Dudleys has been a great addition though and that added to the new Underdog/big romance locations will coax me out a bit more!

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669932#Comment_119669932

I have to say again that it feels like the "golden age" of craft beer in pubs in Ireland was several years ago.

It was a very short-lived "golden age", so! It's not so long ago that the only craft pubs around were the Bull and Castle and the Porterhouses and anything else was a well-kept secret. It took an age before more opened up and for non-craft pubs to start offering one (usually) or two (if you were lucky) craft taps - usually limited to Galway Hooker or O'Hara's. Then we did start to see a good few more pubs and taps opening - and a pushback from the macros came; free kegs to put in another macro tap - oh, you've to get rid of the craft one to make room? Oh well.

But things genuinely did seem to have gotten better, up to Covid. A load of northside pubs carrying Hope taps, for example; the likes of Brú opening in Fairview, or The Pound in Swords, you don't even need to go into the city centre now to find decent beer. I remember being in The Manhattan in Raheny about 10 years ago and asking what craft beer they had, and being told "Tuborg? Is that craft? You'd really need to go into town for that." Now it's got a decent few Irish and international craft beers on.

Is there any chance that some of this is related to a hangover from the period of COVID, a slowdown in expansions by craft businesses, a difficulty getting and keeping staff...? 

All of the above. If you'd been shut for the best part of 18 months, and are short-staffed, and you're looking at extortionate energy prices for your fridges, you're going to be at least somewhat risk averse and there's better margin in selling your own beer rather than someone else's, so you'll cut down on rotations.

youcancallmeal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669932#Comment_119669932

It was discussed on here somewhere a while back and the widely accepted explanation was that pubs which might have had a few craft beer taps pre-covid got rid of them when they re-opened because allegedly Heineken supported them with PPE(plastic screens and the likes) and outdoor stuff(Branded umbrellas, tables, chairs etc) in return for more Heineken brands on tap. Anecdotally I fully believe this from my visits to several main stream pubs in the last year, Heineken owned Lagunitas is the extent of their craft offerings and Birra Morretti is pushed everywhere as the 'premium lager'.

As for why the likes of GBB pubs are focusing mainly on their own range I would surmise it's purely a business decision in the sense that their main market of tourists and casual craft beer drinkers don't really care that it's mostly GBB and BRU stuff.

Hodors Appletart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670280#Comment_119670280

from your post about pubs in swords and raheny, you should go into Harry Byrnes, they've had hope since before the pandemic (I was drinking Pass in there when Ireland were in the Euros I think) and they have a healthy range of crafty pale ales these days, in the past I've had 8 Degrees Full Irish, and recently Hope, Kinnegar, Hooker (remember them?!) and something else I can't quite remember, could be White Hag.

I remember back to the days of the B&C and the Porterhouses, and The Gingerman on Fenian Street selling the same Fran Well beer as the B&C sold, but under different names - not certain but I think the Gingerman used the actual Fran Well beer names. And don't forget Messrs was around and brewing their own at that same time too.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670430#Comment_119670430

I've not been in Harry Byrne's in years! Thanks for the tip, I'll add it to my list of places to try.

Black Sheep

One point I would make about GBB bars having fewer guest taps - especially foreign ones - I wasn't necessarily slating them for it. It may be good business and even be partly outside their control. Just observing that yes, there appear to be fewer of them on the go, for a variety of reasons.

As far as it being a "short lived golden age"... Sometimes life is like that. Not all progress is guaranteed, or linear if it is.

Being more positive... I remember the late 90s where there was a genuine paucity of choice in terms of craft beer. It was the Porterhouse and maybe some odd imports and that was it. Of course we are better off now and we are likely to remain so. But I do think the best time for craft beer pubs in Dublin is several years ago... The other side of Covid for sure, albeit maybe not that much farther back beyond a year or two. Perhaps things are on the rise again, if so then great.

Hodors Appletart

things are definitely rebounding and I think 2023 will be the best for the craft beer scene (pub wise) we'll have had, and it will only improve imo

breezy1985

So many pubs at least have Erdinger in the fridge and I walk into shops now and sigh when they "only" have one brand like O'Haras or White Hag. We have La Chouffe on tap in a few pubs that are no way craft. And generally the selection of Belgian in offies is excellent.

I think it's easy to forget how bad it used to be when talking about how good or bad it is now.

kilrush

It feels like to me anyhow that Cork (city anyhow) is well set for craft beer pubs these days. You've got places like impala, abbots alehouse, fionnbarras, bierhaus, franciscan well (and even brewdog) that sell a good range of beers.

Then you have all the Benny McCabes pubs that all serve the rising sons range and it feels rare you'd go to a pub that wouldn't have at least one tap.

For example Shane long's new place original 7 seems to be popping up in loads of places. I wasn't around in the time you're calling the golden age but it feels like I've plenty of options here.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672759#Comment_119672759

Bierhaus is class and Abbots was possibly my first experience of a real craft place and the Risings Sons spots I have been to are a great mix of real pub and craft beer.

Also have English, Black and Marina markets and plenty of good coffee in Cork.

Didn't realize Shane Long was doing Original 7. Not surprised he got sick of being a macro brewer 😁

toffeeshel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670786#Comment_119670786

Added bonus of excellent pizza

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672976#Comment_119672976

Also Rascal's and Frank Ryans, for craft beer with excellent pizza!