A lot of “fluff” jobs will take a hit after this

Junior Prehistoric Grits

Junior Prehistoric Grits wrote: »

You haven’t made a point or at least when you tried your info was factually incorrect.

What is the point you want addressed?

Sorry, my bad, I thought you had basic comprehension.

danny004

Ah the old junior accountants curse ,well known and laughed at down through the years. They can see what everyone else earns but can never quite get there.

Jinglejangle69

I'm self employed and do all my invoices returns payroll VAT, etc myself.

Only need an accountant once a year.

But we are a small company, 3 employees so it's obviously different with bigger companies.

Fionn1952

You're not generating revenue or creating products for your clients, Ticker. You're potentially on the chopping block along with the HR and Admin teams who aren't generating revenue, whatever your qualifications. We'll just find someone less experienced for cheaper. Hardly difficult to balance a few spreadsheets and claim some expenses, is it?


.....or we could consider that perhaps some business functions provide value beyond their bottom line and pointless reductivism of jobs you don't understand is stupid?

bizidea

Junior Prehistoric Grits wrote: »

Death and taxes, the two guarantees in life.

Dont forget you have to be born to die

Raconteuse

True to form, thread started to stir up a fight.

Mission accomplished.

One eyed Jack

I’m still no clearer on the point of this thread than I was after reading the initial post predicting that people would lose their jobs, almost as though the OP was gleeful about that fact.

Miserable shìtehawkery really.

jon1981

So the world only needs solicitors, architects and accountants. Got it OP.

jon1981

jon1981 wrote: »

So the world only needs solicitors, architects and practice accountants. Got it OP.

FYP :pac:

Junior Prehistoric Grits

Junior Prehistoric Grits wrote: »

Those are regulated professions whereas HR is not.

I was under impression,to work in HR,you have to register with a regulatory body

https://www.cipd.ie/about

I know of at least 1 college,which requires people to register with them,to get their degree

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I was under impression,to work in HR,you have to register with a regulatory body

https://www.cipd.ie/about

I know of at least 1 college,which requires people to register with them,to get their degree

You don't have to join CIPD to work in HR. It can be joined, if you take their exams or have a HR degree etc. and you can use their initials after your name.



At the risk of triggering the OP I got a HR degree a few years back.

v638sg7k1a92bx

danny004 wrote: »

Ah the old junior accountants curse ,well known and laughed at down through the years. They can see what everyone else earns but can never quite get there.

We’re actually well paid.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Fionn1952 wrote: »

You're not generating revenue or creating products for your clients, Ticker. You're potentially on the chopping block along with the HR and Admin teams who aren't generating revenue, whatever your qualifications. We'll just find someone less experienced for cheaper. Hardly difficult to balance a few spreadsheets and claim some expenses, is it?

Death and taxes are two guarantees in life. Double entry accounting had been around for hundreds of years but yet balancing trial balances is something the vast majority of are people are unable to do it despite. We see it regularly where client comes in and says “I’ve done everything myself and all you need to do is sign off” at which stage we ask them
Is your bank account actually €200k overdrawn
Why do your customers have debit balances and does revenue really owe you €100k in PAYE? Then we get the litany of excuses about how they hired someone to do the books every second Wednesday and how they transferred this journal to this account because that seemed to make sense and the. we tell them that the whole thing needs to be done from scratch and will cost double the price.

Accounting web is literally full of people trying to “balance the books”

v638sg7k1a92bx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I was under impression,to work in HR,you have to register with a regulatory body

https://www.cipd.ie/about

I know of at least 1 college,which requires people to register with them,to get their degree

What legal statute regulates that profession?

Cilldara_2000

Not sure why there’s a row going on between industry and practice accountants. The real enemies are so called bookkeepers who have a vague idea how to work excel and some other accounting software but no actual knowledge of debits and credits or any sort of reconciliation. OTOH much work for accountants in cleaning up their mistakes, so long may it last.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Not sure why there’s a row going on between industry and practice accountants. The real enemies are so called bookkeepers who have a vague idea how to work excel and some other accounting software but no actual knowledge of debits and credits or any sort of reconciliation. OTOH much work for accountants in cleaning up their mistakes, so long may it last.

Thank you. I posted about this previously on the accountant thread.

anewme

Junior Prehistoric Grits wrote: »

I work in a accountancy practice in the midlands. Last November when we were preparing for income tax deadline as clients were sending in their info, we have a large number of clients who are considered HIgh Income Earners who for different reasons are required to submit tax return e.g. they received shares in the company when it was bought out and get dividends etc etc.

A recurring comment coming up around the office when the payslips and P60’s were coming in were the high salaries people were on for “fluff” jobs as someone called it. These are not architects, solicitors or accountants but people working in large organisations, pharma and multi nationals in roles like HR and staffing or general marketing jobs on €80k per annum. You would be surprised how handy many admin type roles are pulling in upwards of €70k per year I’m not even joking.

I think after Corina virus fiasco is over many of those jobs will take a hit.

I'm in an "admin type role" and currently a member of my organisation's key team in issuing communications, support and crisis management in the wake of this crisis. I was in work today.

Whinging about your clients and their incomes shows you to be ndiscreet and totally unprofessional.

No added value, need to be micro managed, poor integrity with respect to clients sensitive information and should be shown the door.

You might take the first hit.

nthclare

Seems in some places they held onto the fluff staff such as the marketing, multimedia, digital, accounts, retail management and let go of the maintenance, gardener's and cleaners but held onto retail, clerical, event organisers, marketing, management and multimedia.

I couldn't see any of those cleaning toilets, surfaces, hovering, weeding, pruning cutting grass , or changing light bulbs, fixings in buildings or cleaning grease traps.
Raking leaves and preparing flower beds.

Zero events, nothing to market for, no multi media posts since they closed shop.

A few places really know their priorities, cut the least paid staff out and look after the fluffy jobs.

Send the manual outdoors workers a letter laying them off temporarily until things get better, make them think that a caption of we're all in this together makes them feel special and needed.

A cousin of mine and his work colleagues were laid off by a well known tourism company managing a lot of sites, who need skeleton staff to keep the place ticking over.
Some of these maintenance and grounds staff were in the company 20 and 30 years but they held onto the new team and shafted to legacy staff ie the people who were there the longest.

Eaten bread is soon forgotten.

nthclare

anewme wrote: »

I'm in an "admin type role" and currently a member of my organisation's key team in issuing communications, support and crisis management in the wake of this crisis. I was in work today.

Whinging about your clients and their incomes shows you to be ndiscreet and totally unprofessional.

No added value or initiative, need to be micro managed, poor integrity with respect to clients sensitive information and should be shown the door.

The fact you've even created this thread verifies that.

You might take the first hit.

At least their car is probably paid for...

beauf

Junior Prehistoric Grits wrote: »

.... the high salaries people were on for “fluff” jobs as someone called it.

....in roles like HR and staffing or general marketing jobs on €80k per annum. You would be surprised how handy many admin type roles are pulling in upwards of €70k per year I’m not even joking.

I think after Corina virus fiasco is over many of those jobs will take a hit....

I think you're wrong. Those people (fluff not admin) always seem to charm their way into decent jobs. I don't understand how either. But they do. I assume they are amazing at self promotion.

anewme

nthclare wrote: »

At least their car is probably paid for...

Not sure what you mean by this ?

Please elaborate.

nthclare

beauf wrote: »

I think you're wrong. Those people always seem to charm their way into decent jobs. I don't understand how either. But they do. I assume they are amazing at self promotion.

They're either narcissists, brown nosing or talk the talk.

Ive seen some right numpties on the job, who never make decisions but rely on the people on the ground to help them out.

Have group sessions, and someone taking notes of the layman's ideas.
Then say the layman's ideas are not feasible.

Then ironically a member of management who was at the meeting and nodded in agreement with the CEO that the layman's idea was not feasible and ridiculous.

Then a year down the road the CEO gets one of the managing team to implement the layman's idea and take full credit for it.

You're dealing with the scum of the earth here.

v638sg7k1a92bx

beauf wrote: »

I think you're wrong. Those people (fluff not admin) always seem to charm their way into decent jobs. I don't understand how either. But they do. I assume they are amazing at self promotion.

These type of roles have grown exponentially in the last 8 years especially within multinational, pharma companies and very large organisations. They approach things from a high level point of view so rather than waste time and money in a growing economy they offer a higher salary than their competitors and the competition does likewise. It’s the opportunity cost of waiting months or losing a candidate over a €5k salary increase so they bump the offer by €10k. If there is an economic adjustment I think a lot of these type of fluffy jobs will take a hit.

v638sg7k1a92bx

anewme wrote: »

I'm in an "admin type role" and currently a member of my organisation's key team in issuing communications, support and crisis management in the wake of this crisis. I was in work today.

Whinging about your clients and their incomes shows you to be ndiscreet and totally unprofessional.

No added value or initiative, need to be micro managed, poor integrity with respect to clients sensitive information and should be shown the door.

The fact you've even created this thread verifies that.

You might take the first hit.

Why sensitive information would that be?

It’s these type of comments and your total lack of business acumen which proves my point.

What type of salary are you on?

nthclare

anewme wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by this ?

You're telling another boards member in a roundabout way that they'll take a hit and I'd say you'd relish in their misfortune.

But at the end of the day they could manage if they got a hit, and probably haven't as much to loose as your good self.

Its an old saying, when someone back in the 80s or 90s told someone they're driving a better car than someone else or told them to get their rust heap out of their way, then the person who was driving a run of a mill car responded by saying that "at least my car is paid for"

In other words the bank owns your car, more than likely all you have in your fridge is the light that comes on when you open the door...

A bit like fur coat and no knickers, there's going to be a lot of fur coat no knickers after all this.

anewme

nthclare wrote: »

You're telling another boards member in a roundabout way that they'll take a hit and I'd say you'd relish in their misfortune.

But at the end of the day they could manage if they got a hit, and probably haven't as much to loose as your good self.

Its an old saying, when someone back in the 80s or 90s told someone they're driving a better car than someone else or told them to get their rust heap out of their way, then the person who was driving a run of a mill car responded by saying that "at least my car is paid for"

In other words the bank owns your car, more than likely all you have in your fridge is the light that comes on when you open the door...

A bit like fur coat and no knickers, there's going to be a lot of fur coat no knickers after all this.

I'm not sure if I'm reading the right thread.

Op is bitching about what others earn ( none of his business) instead of respecting client confidentiality that us granted to him through trust. Instead of adding value to his business, he's using information he has gained through his profession to whinge about others and why they earn more than him. Totally unprofessional. This is not a person adding value to an organisation and should not be allowed handle personal data.

The car comment is outdated rubbish and begrudgery, assuming everyone driving a new car has a bank loan.

anewme

Junior Prehistoric Grits wrote: »

Why sensitive information would that be?

It’s these type of comments and your total lack of business acumen which proves my point

What type of salary are you on?

Again, a basic lack of respect in not recognising that information given to Accountants is not for general consumption or discussion.

As regards the salary question : general cop on applies.

The lack of it shown by OP, shows he is not fit to handle peoples personal data.

beauf

Junior Prehistoric Grits wrote: »

... were on for “fluff” jobs as someone called it. These are not architects, solicitors or accountants but people working in large organisations, pharma and multi nationals in roles like HR and staffing or general marketing jobs on €80k per annum. You would be surprised how handy many admin type roles are pulling in upwards of €70k per year I’m not even joking.
....

There is a difference between fluff and someone really good at HR, admin etc. Some are vital.

I agree about the fluff stuff. But the treaty of the generalisation is wrong as you only know the cost not the value that someone brings to their role.

One eyed Jack

Junior Prehistoric Grits wrote: »

Why sensitive information would that be?

It’s these type of comments and your total lack of business acumen which proves my point.

What type of salary are you on?

From reading your opening post, it demonstrates a considerable lack of business acumen on your own part that you imagine roles in Human Resources, Marketing and Administration which you regard as “fluff” jobs, in particular are going to take a hit as a consequence of the current economic circumstances.

All sectors will be likely to take a hit, none more particularly than any other, and that includes roles in accounting. There are a number of industries and employment sectors undergoing massive change as a result of the growing popularity of Enterprise Resource Planning, and the demand for more people in Human Resources, Marketing and Administration, or “fluff jobs” as you call them, is a lot greater than the demand for accountants whose roles are being phased out in favour of companies automating their financial transactions.

beauf

anewme wrote: »

Again, a basic lack of respect in not recognising that information given to Accountants is not for general consumption or discussion in a forum such as this.

As regards the salary question : general cop on applies.

The lack of it shown by OP, shows he is not fit to handle peoples personal data.

No more information here that you can't get from salary surveys or a look at the jobs being advertised lots of other sources.

v638sg7k1a92bx

anewme wrote: »

Again, a basic lack of respect in not recognising that information given to Accountants is not for general consumption or discussion in a forum such as this.

As regards the salary question : general cop on applies.

The lack of it shown by OP, shows he is not fit to handle peoples personal data.

What are you flapping about. There is no personal data being shared here or specific people being named. It’s simply a statement of fact that there re people earning €80,90, 100k per annum. The general public already knows this.

That’s like saying doctors shouldn’t talk about obesity because it reveals personal data of their fat patients. Did you say admin?

beauf

anewme wrote: »

...
Op is bitching about what others earn ( none of his business) . ..

Half of boards is people complaining about what other people earn. Politicians, public servants, influencers etc.. Take your pick.

v638sg7k1a92bx

One eyed Jack wrote: »

From reading your opening post, it demonstrates a considerable lack of business acumen on your own part that you imagine roles in Human Resources, Marketing and Administration which you regard as “fluff” jobs, in particular are going to take a hit as a consequence of the current economic circumstances.

All sectors will be likely to take a hit, none more particularly than any other, and that includes roles in accounting. There are a number of industries and employment sectors undergoing massive change as a result of the growing popularity of Enterprise Resource Planning, and the demand for more people in Human Resources, Marketing and Administration, or “fluff jobs” as you call them, is a lot greater than the demand for accountants whose roles are being phased out in favour of companies automating their financial transactions.

Utter nonsense. We’ve been hearing this about AI in the accountancy profession for years. I’ve already responded to this several times have a read. Just because you post a link to a Wikipedia page and rhyme off something you read in a start up of the year magazine doesn’t make you look smart.

The reality is that the vast majority of CEO’s of the top listed FTSE 100 companies are accountants. There are good reasons for that so take your Wikipedia definitions somewhere else please.

nthclare

anewme wrote: »

I'm not sure if I'm reading the right thread.

Op is bitching about what others earn ( none of his business) instead of respecting client confidentiality. Instead of adding value to his business, he's using information he has gained through his profession to whinge about others and why they earn more than him. This is not a person adding value to an organisation.

The car comment is rubbish, assuming everyone driving a new car has a bank loan.

You're probably brainwashed to think that its fair to be paying fluffjobs more than genuine workers.

I've seen good people like him point out the in discrepancy of accounts, people's wages and differences on payrolls.

Organisations take value from hard working people and give value to flyby night job titles.

Whistle blowing is starting to get more prolific and any company who takes advantage of people and pay them poor wages according to the market value of their position should be ashamed of themselves.

A work colleague of mine recently got a 40% payrise because an honest human resource employee seen that she was doing the same job for years and a well spoken attractive looking sh1t stirrer only in the door a year was on 30% more for the same role, in the same organisation.

According to your intuitive thinking the person in the hr role leaking the unfairness of the organisation taking value from a person is less important than the value of the organisation.

Organisation and fairness lost its way a long way back.

There was a time when human resources used to looking after the staff and not the company.

After the dust settles people who get back to their jobs are going to be lining up to join unions and society will be fairer.

A lot of people will be earning a lot less in fluff jobs.
But still earning the same in regular jobs if not a bit more.

anewme

beauf wrote: »

No more information here that you can't get from salary surveys or a look at the jobs being advertised lots of other sources.

That's not what OP is doing though.

The fact that OP is broadcasting the fact that he has obtained this information through completing tax returns from his clients is a poor reflection on the OP.

Total lack of discretion and respect.

Personal integrity is essential when working with client information. Anyone who goes blabbing on the internet with personal information they have gained through their employment is not someone youd trust.

anewme

nthclare wrote: »

You're probably brainwashed to think that its fair to be paying fluffjobs more than genuine workers.

I've seen good people like him point out the in discrepancy of accounts, people's wages and differences on payrolls.

Organisations take value from hard working people and give value to flyby night job titles.

Whistle blowing is starting to get more prolific and any company who takes advantage of people and pay them poor wages according to the market value of their position should be ashamed of themselves.

A work colleague of mine recently got a 40% payrise because an honest human resource employee seen that she was doing the same job for years and a well spoken attractive looking sh1t stirrer only in the door a year was on 30% more for the same role, in the same organisation.

According to your intuitive thinking the person in the hr role leaking the unfairness of the organisation taking value from a person is less important than the value of the organisation.

Organisation and fairness lost its way a long way back.

There was a time when human resources used to looking after the staff and not the company.

After the dust settles people who get back to their jobs are going to be lining up to join unions and society will be fairer.

A lot of people will be earning a lot less in fluff jobs.
But still earning the same in regular jobs if not a bit more.

You've become very confused somewhere.

Op is not a whistleblower pointing out wrongdoing in a corporate world, but rather trusted to be a professional completing personal financial returns on an individual basis.

I'd be absolutely fuming if my Accountant was on here blabbing about admin people and marketing people and what they earn. Peoples earnings are individual and confidential. Op is not respecting client confidentiality.

anewme

Junior Prehistoric Grits wrote: »

Did you say admin?

Yes.

beauf

Personal information is information or an opinion, including information or an opinion forming part of a database, whether true or not, and whether recorded in a material form or not, about an individual whose identity is apparent, or can reasonably be ascertained, from the information or opinion

Exactly whose identity is apparent?

beauf

FYI

https://www.jobs.ie/job-talk/salary-guides/
https://www.payscale.com/research/IE/Job=Office_Administrator/Salary

nthclare

anewme wrote: »

You've become very confused somewhere.

Op is not a whistleblower pointing out wrongdoing in a corporate world, but rather trusted to be a professional completing personal financial returns on an individual basis.

I'd be absolutely fuming if my Accountant was on here blabbing about admin people and marketing people and what they earn. Peoples earnings are individual and confidential. Op is not respecting client confidentiality.

Ok I understand where you are coming from, but the OP hasn't outed any company or employees or clients here on boards.

But seriously anewme there's a lot of skullduggery going on out there.

You're probably a hard working honest person yourself and take pride and responsibility in your role and loyal to your organisation.

Ok my bad It's late and I probably reading things differently than you.

Im slightly dyslexic and read things kind of backwards sometimes...

Sorry if I offended you or came across as undermining.
Ill own my lack of concentration and now I have read back and see where you are coming from.

Time for me to turn in and wish you a good night and stay safe out there.

anewme

beauf wrote: »

FYI

https://www.jobs.ie/job-talk/salary-guides/
https://www.payscale.com/research/IE/Job=Office_Administrator/Salary

Guides are guides and employees are assessed on their added value, or lack thereof.

The majority of roles in every organisation are bespoke and paid accordingly.

One eyed Jack

Junior Prehistoric Grits wrote: »

Utter nonsense. We’ve been hearing this about AI in the accountancy profession for years. I’ve already responded to this several times have a read. Just because you post a link to a Wikipedia page and rhyme off something you read in a start up of the year magazine doesn’t make you look smart.

You haven’t responded to it at all though? That’s why I questioned your own business acumen that you appear to be unable to grasp the bigger picture from your practice in the midlands, an indication of your own insular and small-minded thinking that’s the very opposite of business acumen.

Enterprise Resource Planning, as the term suggests, is a great deal bigger than anything one might read in a business startup magazine and frankly given your opinions you’ve expressed so far in this thread, I’m not surprised you’re not familiar with it and are spouting ignorant claptrap at a rate of knots.

Junior Prehistoric Grits wrote: »

The reality is that the vast majority of CEO’s of the top listed FTSE 100 companies are accountants. There are good reasons for that so take your Wikipedia definitions somewhere else please.

You wouldn’t have a source for that claim, would you?

Because the sources I have suggest that only 18% of CEOs of the top listed FTSE 100 companies have a qualification in accounting, and 51% have a background in finance (that wouldn’t be unusual for positions in the C-suite), which is obviously not the same thing as your claim -

Fifth of FTSE 100 CEOs are accountants


One good reason for those figures is that simply being proficient in accounting doesn’t necessarily endow a person with the business acumen required to understand how to manage a successful business, as your posts have so clearly demonstrated on a number of levels, unfortunately.

beauf

anewme wrote: »

Guides are guides and employees are assessed on their added value, or lack thereof.

The majority of roles in every organisation are bespoke and paid accordingly.

Not in the public sector. So not every organisation.

beauf

Well this thread is going well

https://bulletproofmusician.com/stereotype-threat-the-paradox-of-becoming-exactly-what-youre-trying-to-prove-that-youre-not-huh/

anewme

nthclare wrote: »

Ok I understand where you are coming from, but the OP hasn't outed any company or employees or clients here on boards.

But seriously anewme there's a lot of skullduggery going on out there.

You're probably a hard working honest person yourself and take pride and responsibility in your role and loyal to your organisation.

Ok my bad It's late and I probably reading things differently than you.

Im slightly dyslexic and read things kind of backwards sometimes...

Sorry if I offended you or came across as undermining.
Ill own my lack of concentration and now I have read back and see where you are coming from.

Time for me to turn in and wish you a good night and stay safe out there.

Fair enough. And no offence taken. It's a difference of opinion only.

In my opinion, the fact that OP has even stated his profession and used information gained through it is to start a discussion about peoples earnings is an abuse of personal information and poor reflection on himself only.

He has also deemed himself qualified to assess "fluff" jobs in accordance with his own narrow minded standards, ie a rural accountants office. This is not a barometer for industry.

Times will be tough in the future, no doubt and I hope we all come through it.

I'd rather concentrate on the positives I can bring to an organisation, rather than whinging about what others earn and I dont.

v638sg7k1a92bx

anewme wrote: »

That's not what OP is doing though.

The fact that OP is broadcasting the fact that he has obtained this information through completing tax returns from his clients is a poor reflection on the OP.

Total lack of discretion and respect.

Personal integrity is essential when working with client information. Anyone who goes blabbing on the internet with personal information they have gained through their employment is not someone youd trust.

Whose personal information are you referring to specifically? Are accountants not allowed talk about the work they do? Stop digging it’s a ridiculous argument you’re trying to make.

anewme

Junior Prehistoric Grits wrote: »

Whose personal information are you referring to specifically? Are accountants not allowed talk about the work they do? Stop digging it’s a ridiculous argument you’re trying to make.

Accountants should not discuss earnings of their clients in any way, shape or form with the general public such as you are doing.

It's a breach of trust.

What level of practice do you work for?

Have they no professional standards?

v638sg7k1a92bx

anewme wrote: »

Accountants should not discuss earnings of their clients in any way, shape or form with the general public such as you are doing.

It's a breach of trust.

What level of practice do you work for?

Have they no professional standards?

Did you just make up that rule. Do you speak for the accounting profession?

anewme

Junior Prehistoric Grits wrote: »

Did you just make up that rule. Do you speak for the accounting profession?

I can only speak for me. Your professional standards are clearly different.

I worked in a practice with extremely high net worth clients. It was a given that you exercised complete discretion in respect of your clients, their occupations, earnings and their personal data.

Your lack of discretion and respect for your clients says a lot about you and your own standards.

People at the top of their game would never post what you've posted. Sorry.

beauf

anewme wrote: »

....
I worked in a practice with extremely high net worth clients. ...

Ah more personal information....:D