I want a shutdown NOW!

begbysback

begbysback wrote: »

The implications of temporary removal of civil liberties.

What are these implications? As you said, temporary removal (Although suspension is probably more accurate)

jmayo

Abel Ruiz wrote: »

Just cause you're a mod/ex mod you can't get away with this bullsh1t...
The cheek of you.
You're the clown that wanted to get a away in your holiers to poland and said the virus is a celebrity flu and "a load of nonsense", and you couldn't give a shyte about the Coronavirus.

And when called out on your stupidity, you wouldn't admit that you were wrong.
Why are you being such a dick now???? Cop on

What do you mean NOW.
There was a reason I put that poster on ignore a long time ago.

begbysback wrote: »

Why would somebody be a fool for going to the countryside or on a cycle while they were adhering to the guidelines of social distancing?

Unfortunately the dramatists have got their lockdown, without really understanding the implications.

begbysback wrote: »

The implications of temporary removal of civil liberties.

And your figures are completely inaccurate, that’s the % of diagnosed cases, also if you check the median age of deaths you will see that it includes very very few young people, and the large % of those have underlying conditions, in very rare cases there appear to have been no underlying conditions.

The stench of "I am alright Jack so fook a few other people" that comes off your posts is nauseating.

And you are not the only one that is hiding behind the pretense of caring about civil liberties, when really it is probably that you care about losing money and the right to do whatever the fook you like.

There is another muppet here that keeps telling other people to self isolate if they want, but they are grand and comes out with such absolute shyte that they can make their own "risk decisions".



Others are saying why not allow people go for a drive or a cycle out in the country.
The problem is you then get others thinking not alone can they do likewise, but also then stretch it to a stop and a walk on a beach, harbour, mountainside.
Last weekend beaches and harbours in Dublin, mountainsides in Wicklow were crawling with people.
There was no social distancing because there were that many people.
Added to that cars were being dumped all over the place and hampering legitimate traffic.

If people could be trusted this would not be necessary.

begbysback

jmayo wrote: »

What do you mean NOW.
There was a reason I put that poster on ignore a long time ago.





The stench of "I am alright Jack so fook a few other people" that comes off your posts is nauseating.

And you are not the only one that is hiding behind the pretense of caring about civil liberties, when really it is probably that you care about losing money and the right to do whatever the fook you like.

There is another muppet here that keeps telling other people to self isolate if they want, but they are grand and comes out with such absolute shyte that they can make their own "risk decisions".



Others are saying why not allow people go for a drive or a cycle out in the country.
The problem is you then get others thinking not alone can they do likewise, but also then stretch it to a stop and a walk on a beach, harbour, mountainside.
Last weekend beaches and harbours in Dublin, mountainsides in Wicklow were crawling with people.
There was no social distancing because there were that many people.
Added to that cars were being dumped all over the place and hampering legitimate traffic.

If people could be trusted this would not be necessary.

The stench of virtue signaling off that, and you couldn’t be any more wrong, I have to self isolate, but that’s none of your business anyway.

The amount of virtue signaling around these times is shameful, on here and on Twitter where that guy Padraig the photographer has taken to publicly chastising homeless people for the sake of his own virtue signaling.

People all of a sudden have taken this opportunity to impede on the lives of others for their own gratitude - sickening.

SCOOP 64

Did they put out the list of essential services to remain open yet because believe me if my boss can find a loophole i will back to work Monday.

Badly Drunk Boy

I just found out that I'm expected in work on Monday. I work in a factory producing stuff that is needed, but I wouldn't say essential. I also work less than 2km from work so I can't use that as a reason.

I'd feel better not being out there...

SuperRabbit

begbysback wrote: »

The implications of temporary removal of civil liberties.

And your figures are completely inaccurate, that’s the % of diagnosed cases, also if you check the median age of deaths you will see that it includes very very few young people, and the large % of those have underlying conditions, in very rare cases there appear to have been no underlying conditions.

"Your figures are inaccurate, they only say exactly what you said they say" thank you!

You can look at video of ICU wards in Italy right now and see that the majority of the patients are young men. The reason why healthy young men are surviving this at all is that they are being given the ventilators, which they desperately need, that vulnerable people also desperately need.

"loss of civil liberties" is being used so completely inappropriately at the moment that in two years time, when people have genuine concerns about civil liberty again, all anyone will think about will be psychopaths who don't give a **** about anyone who are screaming about it at the moment. They are completely taking away all legitimacy for civil liberty as a concern at all. By screaming about it right now you are all rebranding civil liberty as something very selfish. Every time for the rest of my life I hear "civil liberty" I will think of people who wanted my loved ones to die so that they could go to work and to the pub.

I'm sorry extraverts, you are going to have to stay in for once in order to save thousands upon thousands of lives, to complain about this in terms of "civil liberties" shows a complete lack of empathy and concern for anyone but yourself, you have no civil liberties when you are dead in a coffin in the ground

Plumbthedepths

Do people actually read or listen? The 2km restrictions are in relation to exercise from your home only.

Elmer Blooker

SuperRabbit wrote: »

10% of confirmed cases are dying in Italy. 7% in Spain. That's people of all ages and levels of health

...... and only 0.6% in Germany , why the difference I wonder?

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The UK rules are nothing like in Ireland. Groups of more than 2 (if not a family) are banned, and the police enforce this. But there are no rules about distance from your home while running or cycling, coffee shops and cafes are all still open (just that you can’t sit inside), driving to other far away places is not formally prohibited (though not advised), and you can still get your roof done or your kitchen fitted. The stories about the roadblocks in various places like Cornwall are true, but the local police had to take them away when advised by Westminster that they had overreached their power. My family in the UK tell me that there are people out everywhere, albeit there is a wide awareness of and adherence to social distancing.

I think that the general adherence in the UK to social distancing principles and group gatherings than exists in Ireland makes looser restrictions more likely to have an effect. There is an understanding that it is social distancing that is important, not whether or not you do that social distancing within Xkm from your home.

The rules are not the same but they’re getting closer and closer and they’re ramping up in increments. I’m noticing a lot of propel talking pride in the superiority of Ireland’s rules over the uk rules. When Ireland closed the schools, it was a point of pride that Ireland acted before the uk. Then the uk went a step further than Ireland and the mood switched form saying the uk is not taking it seriously enough to saying the UK’s rules are going too far and won’t work because they’re too strict.

The comparison between the uk and irish rules has been interesting to observe. But it takes from the facts about how people behave. I think people people take it as seriously as the rules suggest for example, last week people thought it wa grand to go to the beach. Now he rules have changed and people will change their attitude and tell you it’s not sensible to go to the beach. And there’s a lag between rules being implemented and people getting used to following them.

In short, I think the rules will tighten up further and become more homogenous across Europe. We’re a few weeks behind Italy and a couple of weeks behind Spain and France in terms of the health system becoming overrun. When the health system is overrun then the rules will tighten and people will adjust their attitude towards their behaviour.

I suppose we could look a bit down the road into the future and begin to behave as if this thing was more serious than it is right now - because in a couple of weeks, it’ll be pretty serious compared to now.

Plumbthedepths

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

...... and only 0.6% in Germany , why the difference I wonder?

Different method of recording the cause of death.

El_Duderino 09

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

I just found out that I'm expected in work on Monday. I work in a factory producing stuff that is needed, but I wouldn't say essential. I also work less than 2km from work so I can't use that as a reason.

I'd feel better not being out there...

I’d say there are calculations about scarcity of goods causing people to panic buy and leading towards anarchy. Even on essentials are necessary to keep people behaving normally.

But it depends on what kind of non essentials. I saw the uk has kept DIY shops open. Presumably the calculation is that people are at home and can pass the time by doing DIY even though going to a DIY shop carries risk of transmission. I expect those things to close over time but they are getting people used to the idea slowly so they don’t go completely bananas and society breaks down.

Balf

begbysback wrote: »

Unfortunately the dramatists have got their lockdown, without really understanding the implications.

In a calmer time, it will be interesting to look back and see how easily folk were herded on this.

Very quickly, most people have accepted this is more important than pretty much any aspect of human life. Preventing the spread of this single disease is, apparently, worth paying the price of several years of painful economic reconstruction involving very large human costs.

Its worth interrupting the social, physical and educational development of children. Its worth interrupting treatment of other life enhancing medical treatments.

All accepted, without any real comment.

Maybe its needed, and I'll comply. But the lack of any real appreciation of the long term damage this response is doing to people - here and abroad - is worrying.

As an aside, also worried about what happens when this really takes hold in places like India, where the idea that people stay home in their apartment or semi d won't really mean anything.

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What on earth is a "jolly up"? You've said it about a dozen times, I've never heard of it??? It seems to only happen in the countryside too, is that right??

A fun day out. A jolly outing, a jolly-up. Somewhere you go to get your jollies.

It’s the kind of thing you ought to choose not to do right now. For example, going for a cycle to the countryside is a stupid thing to do right now. It was stupid before he government rules from last night and it’s stupid today.

SuperRabbit

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

...... and only 0.6% in Germany , why the difference I wonder?

Germany had like a gazillion ICU beds and ventilators, ventilators are needed to keep a percentage of people, young and old, vulnerable and not vulnerable, alive if they get this. This can give you pnemonia at any age with any health level. The data is freely available everywhere. Watch an interview with any Italian doctor. read the WHO website

The death rates start to skyrocket when you run out of ventilators because they take the ventilators off some people and give them to the youngest healthiest people so they can keep up this statistic that you aren't in danger unless you aren't young and healthy

seamus

SuperRabbit wrote: »

The death rates start to skyrocket when you run out of ventilators because they take the ventilators off some people and give them to the youngest healthiest people so they can keep up this statistic that you aren't in danger unless you aren't young and healthy

It's not about "keeping up" a statistic, it's about playing the odds.

People may still die even if you put them on a ventilator. Younger people are more likely to recover than older people when you use a ventilator.

Thus it makes sense to give the ventilators (or any medical treatment) to the individuals who are most likely to survive. This is a pretty fundamental medical principle, we're just fortunate that we rarely have to put it into practice.

fryup

^^^^^^^^^

yep, but pity the doctors that have to make that decision

begbysback

Balf wrote: »

In a calmer time, it will be interesting to look back and see how easily folk were herded on this.

Very quickly, most people have accepted this is more important than pretty much any aspect of human life. Preventing the spread of this single disease is, apparently, worth paying the price of several years of painful economic reconstruction involving very large human costs.

Its worth interrupting the social, physical and educational development of children. Its worth interrupting treatment of other life enhancing medical treatments.

All accepted, without any real comment.

Maybe its needed, and I'll comply. But the lack of any real appreciation of the long term damage this response is doing to people - here and abroad - is worrying.

As an aside, also worried about what happens when this really takes hold in places like India, where the idea that people stay home in their apartment or semi d won't really mean anything.

I’d be more concerned about the short term implications, Garda have now encouraged people to report those they see breaking the rules, well what can go wrong? People are likely to be in a bad state of mind and start turning on each other, the longer it goes on then the higher this risk becomes. Such are the implications that the people who demand a lockdown don’t foresee.

There’s a section of society who don’t usually adhere to the rules under normal conditions, conflict is most likely inevitable.

SuperRabbit

Balf wrote: »

In a calmer time, it will be interesting to look back and see how easily folk were herded on this.

Very quickly, most people have accepted this is more important than pretty much any aspect of human life. .

Please list the "civil liberties" you are actually annoyed about.

You are speaking in convenient abstractions and it is ingenuous.

Keeping people alive is obviously more important than going to the pub

Keeping people alive is obviously more important than most products and services

Keeping people alive is obviously more important than people being able to congregate on beaches and on mountains

Do you understand that Spanish Flu only killed 2% of infected and yet it killed 50 to 100 million people?

If we had managed to be more efficient with testing and contact tracing, like in Korea, we wouldn't have needed this, but we tried that and we couldn't manage it, trying to test everyone, like they did in Korea, just meant that people who really needed the results urgently weren't getting them. So we had to lock down to save tens of thousands of lives. If we can get more efficient with testing this won't be necessary for very long. New ways of testing are being invented all the time.

Balf

begbysback wrote: »

I’d be more concerned about the short term implications,

I'm not. Not at all, really. I'm only bothered about the costs we're ramping up.

begbysback

Balf wrote: »

I'm not. Not at all, really. I'm only bothered about the costs we're ramping up.

Neither look good, though rash decisions made these days can have hidden implications - we can only hope rationale wins out, rather then hysteria.

Balf

SuperRabbit wrote: »

Please list the "civil liberties" you are actually annoyed about.

You are speaking in convenient abstractions and it is ingenuous.

If you reasd the post, you'd notice I've said nothing about civil liberties at all.

With very little effort, out pop ideologues like yourself with all the self righteous enthusiasm of a Mormon missionary.

There are none so blind as those who think the other guy hasn't got the point.

SuperRabbit

"I should be able to do whatever I feel like even though it will guarantee that more people die".

Lovely.

Maybe we could invite all these psychopaths to live by themselves on an island together where they don't have to limit their activities!

Raconteuse

Balf wrote: »

In a calmer time, it will be interesting to look back and see how easily folk were herded on this.

Very quickly, most people have accepted this is more important than pretty much any aspect of human life. Preventing the spread of this single disease is, apparently, worth paying the price of several years of painful economic reconstruction involving very large human costs.

Its worth interrupting the social, physical and educational development of children. Its worth interrupting treatment of other life enhancing medical treatments.

All accepted, without any real comment.

Maybe its needed, and I'll comply. But the lack of any real appreciation of the long term damage this response is doing to people - here and abroad - is worrying.

As an aside, also worried about what happens when this really takes hold in places like India, where the idea that people stay home in their apartment or semi d won't really mean anything.

Incredible stuff. People were "herded" because they didn't want a highly contagious virus to run rampant and kill countless people (many value the older - because they are our parents and grandparents, and many younger people are immuno-compromised) and cripple the already stretched health service.

Of course people are aware of the wider ramifications. What alternative do you suggest though?

Raconteuse

Balf wrote: »

I'm not. Not at all, really. I'm only bothered about the costs we're ramping up.

There we have it.

SuperRabbit

I'm sorry for the psychopath comment. Someone putting their own convenience in front of someone else's welfare and life doesn't automatically make them a psychopath. Some people are in denial about how dangerous this is and that doesn't mean they are psychopaths.

Where I am (in a modern Dublin 6 estate) lots of people are flouting the temporary rules, children out on their bikes with their little helmets, the dogs being walked, couples walking the parkland below my apartment. So many are ignoring it, and these are “educated” people I know to meet, professional types who ought to know better.

Raconteuse

SuperRabbit wrote: »

I'm sorry for the psychopath comment. Someone putting their own convenience in front of someone else's welfare and life doesn't automatically make them a psychopath. Some people are in denial about how dangerous this is and that doesn't mean they are psychopaths.

Meh, don't apologise. Those tendencies are psychopathic. Lack of empathy, narcissistic.

Plumbthedepths

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Where I am (in a modern Dublin 6 estate) lots of people are flouting the temporary rules, children out on their bikes with their little helmets, the dogs being walked, couples walking the parkland below my apartment. So many are ignoring it, and these are “educated” people I know to meet, professional types who ought to know better.

You do know people are still encouraged to get exercise .

Jimmy Garlic

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Where I am (in a modern Dublin 6 estate) lots of people are flouting the temporary rules, children out on their bikes with their little helmets, the dogs being walked, couples walking the parkland below my apartment. So many are ignoring it, and these are “educated” people I know to meet, professional types who ought to know better.

And the east German style curtain twitching begins. What harm is people exercising in the great outdoors doing to you or anyone else?

celticWario

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

And the east German style curtain twitching begins. What harm is people exercising in the great outdoors doing to you or anyone else?

And the Irish style "mind you're own business, don't be a rat, sure people need to live and have the craic" attitude not following close behind.