Mote Park is under threat - Pls sign the petition to help save it

hkjohn

MP is one of the loveliest places in the whole of western Ireland, please help save it from being ruined by signing the petition

https://www.change.org/p/roscommon-county-council-stop-the-n61-ballymurray-knockcroghery-lecarrow-bypass

Pique

The ONLY proposed route that goes anywhere near Mote Demesne is Route C.

Routes C-3, E, F, G & J are nowhere near it.

The route hasnt been chosen as of yet, and it's extremely unlikely that Route C would be selected anyway.

Route J makes most sense to me as the elevation changes are the least, the railway line is skirted, avoiding bridges, and it would leave the primary dangerous section basically for residents and farmers only.

Regardless of which route is eventually chosen, Knockcroghery is practically unuseable for anyone at the minute. Crossing the road is nigh-on impossible and the volume of traffic is only going to increase.

So, all in all, I definitely wouldn't recommend anyone signing a petition to oppose the bypass, least of all one that screams that Mote Park will be destroyed.

hkjohn

The fact is that MP is on the short list to begin is already worrying enough for me on its own.

While I'm sure it's "extremely unlikely" it will be chosen, such a poor decision wouldn't be the first time a government somewhere ended up making a massive cock up.

So if you want to be sure and save MP, ignore Picque's baseless recommendations, sign the petition and ensure the - admittedly much needed - road gets dumped somewhere less scenic.

Pique

The fact that the petition's title is "Stop the N61 Ballymurray, Knockcroghery & Lecarrow Bypass" alludes to the notion that the intention is to stop the entire "admittedly much needed" bypass.

Submissions from the public have not been accepted since 2 months ago anyway. The whole approach of the petition is flawed imo. Protect Mote by all means I totally agree and support that premise. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

In any case, once a preferred route(s) is chosen, the time for the objections will begin.

I'd also love to know what "baseless recommendations" I made? I have given ample explanation for why I recommend people to NOT support this pearl-clutching petition.

lucalux

Looking at the petition page, it's very clear that the person who wrote it thinks no new road is necessary.

"Our proposals

We don’t need a new road but we do need the existing road to be made safer. E.g.
- Turning points made safer through clear road markings and signage.
- Widening to provide turning lanes.
- Blind spots removed.
- Introduction of cycle lanes.
- Restrictions on speed & overtaking.
Greater investment in public transport*
- Extra trains from Roscommon to Athlone with feeder buses connecting to workplaces.
- Additional Bus routes between Roscommon & Athlone."

As said above there were public submissions open previously, and there will be a chance for objections when the route is chosen.

beggars_bush

there will be no money for road schemes for the next 5 years after this covid thing and bypassing villages in Roscommon will be way down the list

the opportunity for a bypass was muted many moons ago, maybe 15-20 years ago, "All" the business' in the village opposed the idea, based on the foolish notion that it would lead to a fall in business. the majority of traffic passing through was exactly that, through traffic, very few of which stop, the people who stopped to "shop" were locals who would be there whether there was a bypass or not, instead the preferred option was to keep letting the 40 foots tear through the village, a fine tradition which is continued to this day, now the only difference is there is nowhere for them to shop anyway. school has quadrupled in size, the original proposed bypass route is now a housing estate. the village has 4 pubs, 1 closed the last few years, so 3 pubs open (before covid) 1 cafe, 1 hairdressers, a post office. that's it, oh and a near derelict abandoned petrol station that has had more owners than Carlos Tevez, Garda Station closed nigh on 20 years. the traffic is insane at times as was mentioned before, you could be 5 minutes waiting to cross the road.

edit: none of the links work on the petition page

beggars_bush

Deleted User wrote: »

the opportunity for a bypass was muted many moons ago, maybe 15-20 years ago, "All" the business' in the village opposed the idea, based on the foolish notion that it would lead to a fall in business. the majority of traffic passing through was exactly that, through traffic, very few of which stop, the people who stopped to "shop" were locals who would be there whether there was a bypass or not, instead the preferred option was to keep letting the 40 foots tear through the village, a fine tradition which is continued to this day, now the only difference is there is nowhere for them to shop anyway. school has quadrupled in size, the original proposed bypass route is now a housing estate. the village has 4 pubs, 1 closed the last few years, so 3 pubs open (before covid) 1 cafe, 1 hairdressers, a post office. that's it, oh and a near derelict abandoned petrol station that has had more owners than Carlos Tevez, Garda Station closed nigh on 20 years. the traffic is insane at times as was mentioned before, you could be 5 minutes waiting to cross the road.

edit: none of the links work on the petition page

would a set of lights with a pedestrian crossing not solve that problem?

were all three pubs open?

beggars_bush

beggars_bush wrote: »

would a set of lights with a pedestrian crossing not solve that problem?

were all three pubs open?

you having a laugh, it took the locals 5 years to learn how to use the one in Roscommon Town, it was like a spaceship had landed in the town, what's this Mary? I don't know John, why did they paint the road black and white Mary?, I don't know John. will I press the big silver button Mary?, I don't know John, why is the little man red, Mary, I don't know John. **** Mary here's a car lets just walk out in front of it, ok Jo

r.i.p. Mary

Pique

beggars_bush wrote: »

would a set of lights with a pedestrian crossing not solve that problem?

were all three pubs open?

TBF, the bypass of Knockcroghery is not the main goal afaik. It's the stretch of road from Ballymurray level crossing to Knockcroghery that's the main issue. It's narrow, twisty, loads of side roads, poor sightlines and fraught with dangers for an N-road. THere have been a good amount of accidents/crashes too and a few fatalities which is excessive for such a short stretch.

Bypassing Knockcroghery is a happy side-benefit. As was mentioned above, I remember a prominent local opposing a previous bypass idea on the same basis. That it would kill business. Ignoring the fact that it was locals and not passers-by who kept the place alive. That idea was borne of a different age and has proven itself to be catastrophic for the village. I can't really blame him personally (he was entitled to his opinion, and was a hugely respected person in the area), but I can say that his arguments shouldn't have been taken with as much gravity as they obviously were.

An essentially 'private' road for locals to access the village from Newtown/Ballymurray to Culleen/Lecarrow would make it the obvious choice for a multitude of customers (if a shop were to open, of course!). It would also hopefully detract from the appeal of the Curry/Kilteevan road currently used as a rat run and making that road a bloody terrifying experience to join.

School runs to Ballymurray NS and Knockcroghery NS might even (whisper it) move back to kids cycling to school. I wouldn't let my kid cycle on that road which I did in the 80s.

yabadabado

[Deleted User] wrote: »

the opportunity for a bypass was muted many moons ago, maybe 15-20 years ago, "All" the business' in the village opposed the idea, based on the foolish notion that it would lead to a fall in business. the majority of traffic passing through was exactly that, through traffic, very few of which stop, the people who stopped to "shop" were locals who would be there whether there was a bypass or not, instead the preferred option was to keep letting the 40 foots tear through the village, a fine tradition which is continued to this day, now the only difference is there is nowhere for them to shop anyway. school has quadrupled in size, the original proposed bypass route is now a housing estate. the village has 4 pubs, 1 closed the last few years, so 3 pubs open (before covid) 1 cafe, 1 hairdressers, a post office. that's it, oh and a near derelict abandoned petrol station that has had more owners than Carlos Tevez, Garda Station closed nigh on 20 years. the traffic is insane at times as was mentioned before, you could be 5 minutes waiting to cross the road.

edit: none of the links work on the petition page

There was never a serious look at bypassing the village ,there was interest in widened the road(centre of village bottleneck)which would have involved knocking 2 premises at the time.That would have solved nothing.
2 other routes were mentioned from time to time but were never looked at seriously.
This planned works isn't just to bypass Knockcroghery village it's also to bypass the two rail crossings and all the minor roads off it(think its 10/12)

The garda station was open until 2013 and the petrol station has had the 3 owners since it was built.

The school has seen massive renovations in the last 10/15 years but the number of pupils hasn't quadrupled. A lot of the building work was for special needs etc .Its probably safer than it's ever been to drop/pick up kids there since they build the new car park at the church.



If this bypass happens which I presume is in major doubt now with Covid19, I'd expect it to take the route along the railway crossing. That has been the route that was always mentioned going back 10+years.It also will be a way to buy up land to get rid of livestock crossings which Irish Rail have been trying to do for a number of years.Perfect opportunity if that route is taken.

well judging by how long it took to "make safe" the junction at Ballymurray school (the bend), I reckon the only bypass I will be seeing, will be in a cardiac ward.

Pique

Deleted User wrote: »

well judging by how long it took to "make safe" the junction at Ballymurray school (the bend), I reckon the only bypass I will be seeing, will be in a cardiac ward.

I'm sorry, that's 'safe'?

Pique

Pique wrote: »

I'm sorry, that's 'safe'?

roc coco' idea of safe I guess

yabadabado

I'd be very wary of signing that petition, whoever has set it up thinks there is no need for a new road at all.

No one wants Mote Park to be impacted with a new road but saying a few changes to turns,road markings etc will be adequate is absurd.A new road from Newtown to Cullen is what's needed ,not a half arsed job.

Imo I dont think there was or is any real interest with the route at MP and is probably there as a ruse.No one is really talking about the other routes or little to no opposition to them.

The public meeting just before xmas was almost 100% about MP and the impact a road there will have.

I have no intention of signing the petition. maybe they should build a tunnel from st. Johns to town.:D

beggars_bush

isn't Mote Park a coillte forest?
ie planted so it would be harvested?

yabadabado

beggars_bush wrote: »

isn't Mote Park a coillte forest?
ie planted so it would be harvested?

Harvesting was suspended about 2 years ago until Coilite and some conservation groups could agree on a management plan.

A lot of the original woods from the estate were cut in the 60s
I think a lot of planting by Coillte happened in the 80s?

Pique

> A lot of the original woods from the estate were cut in the 60s

Yeah old growth forests sold for a song probably by the Land Commission. Another facepalm in Irelands long tradition of trying to erase all evidence of English landlords, and in the process shooting ourselves in the foot.

The book by Mount Talbot writer Paul Connolly called The Landed Estates of County Roscommon highlights the immense wealth these people had, but more poignantly, the 'foaming at the mouth' attitude of the nation, national and local, to burn and pillage these estates and in many cases, Mote Park included, raze them to the ground.

Sensible heads pleaded but the mob had spoken and now we're left with the Lions gate in a farmyard and only saved by charity, the 'big house' erased, the stables (themselves grander than the biggest McMansion in the county) left as a shell.

It's goddammed depressing when you think of it. They didn't flatten Aras an Uachtaran or Leinster House, or Dublin Castle!

I'm glad none of them built a place on Rathcroghan or that whole place would've been bulldozed in the 50s!

yabadabado

An awful shame the house was demolished in the 60s ,it could have been a great amenity in the area.

yeah but they have put up a few signposts to direct people to the lions gate, to boost tourism

beggars_bush

yabadabado wrote: »

An awful shame the house was demolished in the 60s ,it could have been a great amenity in the area.

I thought stone from it was used for the catholic church in Roscommon town?

yabadabado

beggars_bush wrote: »

I thought stone from it was used for the catholic church in Roscommon town?

That church was built in 1903 ,maybe the stone used was quarried from the estate's land?

It came from a quarry in Tremane so possibly could have been Croftons at that time.