Government Benefits Megathread

Dempo1

Jess2019 wrote: »

Does anyone else think this has been put in place to catch those in receipt of the PUP who have now decided to head home to their own countries for good/couple of months?
Just putting that question out there.

I don't really think it was as such, that would be a little too cynical but I do believe certain sections in media, egged on by the likes of Leo Varadker are blowing completely out of proportion. I do however believe it is discriminatory and the DEASP seem to be literally making up the rules as they go along.

Jess2019

Yeah it is very unfair on those who have been temporarily laid off, and want to go back to work but can't. They seem to be getting lumped in with those who should be looking for work but arent. I'm shocked that Leo can't differentiate between the two.
Also if you are looking for work, you apply for jobs online and the majority of interviews these days are conducted via zoom. Which can all be done outside the country.
I suppose Leo's argument could be that what if your boss calls and asks you to return to work and your away on holidays and can't. But still very unfair to cut people's payment.

blanch152

rob316 wrote: »

That's shocking they are stopping payments for going on holiday. So you can sponge off the state on the dole for life and do what you want but if you lost your job through no fault of your own, they stop your payment?
There is nothing on the deasp site that says you have to be actively seeking employment to receive it.

As far as I know, it applies to all unemployment payments now.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/claiming_a_social_welfare_payment/going_abroad_and_social_welfare_payments.html

"f you are getting Jobseeker's Benefit, Jobseeker’s Benefit (Self-employed), or Jobseeker’s Allowance you can go on holiday on the island of Ireland for a maximum of 2 weeks and get the 2 weeks payment on your return. Since 7 July 2020, you will only be paid for a holiday abroad that is in accordance with the General COVID-19 Travel Advisory in operation. You will also not be paid for the 14 days that you are required to self-isolate when you return from abroad.

This means that you will not be paid for holidays abroad while the Government advises that you should not make non-essential journeys outside of Ireland. This does not apply to holidays in Northern Ireland. You can read the latest Government travel advice from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade."

In addition, any public servant that travels abroad on non-essential travel must take annual leave or unpaid leave for the period of quarantine, so it just doesn't affect Covid-19 payments and the unemployed.

Away With The Fairies

Are they cutting the payments of those on the wage subsidy scheme when they go on holidays?

rob316

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Are they cutting the payments of those on the wage subsidy scheme when they go on holidays?

That's not paid by the SW, its a revenue payment.

Dempo1

rob316 wrote: »

That's not paid by the SW, its a revenue payment.

Agreed but isn't it amazing how vast sways of TWSS recipient's can essentially stay at home and get up to 75% salary, indeed I've seen reports of €2800 pm. You might ask, WTF, and I say yes it's the case. I've checked, employees of businesses availing of the TWSS don't actually have to be back at work.

My point of course is, not a peep about this, I don't begrudge anyone on TWSS but in many cases it's essentially PUP albeit costing far more. Worse still are reports some businesses availing of this scheme even though not a cent drop in turnover.

But never mind, we'll pick on PUP recipients. The good news is there's the beginning of a back lash re the airport nonsense, a few TD's are not happy, it's even got the attention of the civil liberties crowd and the data protection commissioner. This government is a shambles.

Boggles

Dempo1 wrote: »

Agreed but isn't it amazing how vast sways of TWSS recipient's can essentially stay at home and get up to 75% salary, indeed I've seen reports of €2800 pm. You might ask, WTF, and I say yes it's the case. I've checked, employees of businesses availing of the TWSS don't actually have to be back at work.

My point of course is, not a peep about this, I don't begrudge anyone on TWSS but in many cases it's essentially PUP albeit costing far more. Worse still are reports some businesses availing of this scheme even though not a cent drop in turnover.

But never mind, we'll pick on PUP recipients. The good news is there's the beginning of a back lash re the airport nonsense, a few TD's are not happy, it's even got the attention of the civil liberties crowd and the data protection commissioner. This government is a shambles.

I'm not surprised, where did the flight manifestos come from?

Dempo1

Boggles wrote: »

I'm not surprised, where did the flight manifestos come from?

Not sure if it was flight manifesto to be honest but certainly something stinks about this, motion in Dail later to anul the sneaky ministerial order relating to this debacle, probably won't succeed but it will be further discomfort for Heather and Leo

SleetAndSnow

https://twitter.com/KarlGill/status/1287697881202339840?s=20

*Sigh*, now it really is just a two tier jobseekers benefit (Normal jobseekers and the 350 jobseekersm even though PUP has people waiting to go back to bar work and nightclub work??????????) , wouldn't surprise me if they start sending out letters soon telling people to go to meetings like they do in Jobseekers. There are literally no jobs available atm, or the few i've applied for have had people infront of me also handing in CVs with most online applications just not getting any response.

Away With The Fairies

Just checked on the mywelfare website. They changed things up with the payment. You now have to be seeking work.

What an absolute joke. People got the payment because they are out of work. They know people has jobs to go back to but just waiting until their place of work re-opens.

People now has to be looking for work, yet there's very little support in getting people back to work. I tried to sign up for a course but the pup payment wasn't an eligible payment.

SleetAndSnow

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Just checked on the mywelfare website. They changed things up with the payment. You now have to be seeking work.

What an absolute joke. People got the payment because they are out of work. They know people has jobs to go back to but just waiting until their place of work re-opens.

People now has to be looking for work, yet there's very little support in getting people back to work. I tried to sign up for a course but the pup payment wasn't an eligible payment.

Whats annoying me is they didn't even communicate the change, no email, letter or anything. Nothing.

Dempo1

You'd have to wonder why this shower bothered extending the payment, if it was such a contemptuous notion supporting those in this ****e because of their decisions, why didn't they end it and invite people to sign up on JSA /JSB.

Instead. They pronounced "where all in this together" and as the dust settled, put the boot in. Extraordinary behavior but it has to be said they got a bit of a bashing from journalists today.

Away With The Fairies

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

Whats annoying me is they didn't even communicate the change, no email, letter or anything. Nothing.

People were told to stay at home, they had their workplaces closed due to no fault of their own. Waiting for August 10, hoping things will re-open and now they are forced to look for other work. Like there's other work available.

Dempo1

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

People were told to stay at home, they had their workplaces closed due to no fault of their own. Waiting for August 10, hoping things will re-open and now they are forced to look for other work. Like there's other work available.

Sadly communication skills not this governments strong point

SleetAndSnow

Dempo1 wrote: »

Sadly communication skills not this governments strong point

Really not, Leo seems to be babbling off about stuff which has nothing to do with him/his department and something else happens (aka the pubs can open, and they in fact didn't, the covid payment stuff etc). Seems to be a horror show from the get go. They need to get it together

Dempo1

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

Really not, Leo seems to be babbling off about stuff which has nothing to do with him/his department and something else happens (aka the pubs can open, and they in fact didn't, the covid payment stuff etc). Seems to be a horror show from the get go. They need to get it together

Leo played a blinder, applied for sainthood during the start of the crisis knowing full well coalition was his next move, pass the buck to FF when all the actual hard decisions have to be made. For a medical doctor his lack of emphaty is shocking, he even managed to put his foot in it with the cervical testing outrageous, managing to upset those close to that poor lady who died last week, a complete buffoon.

The only saving grace for those concerned, they've created a monster with the PUP legislation, they've now committed to it until April albeit with some reductions. It is not governed like standard SW payments and they can huff and puff all they want.

I somehow doubt they'll want over 280k pup recepients arriving at DEASP offices, besides most still only open 4 hours a day. As for nonsensical job activation programs, can you imagine the costs of implementation of social distancing protocols.

I emailed Paul Murphy TD, who along with SF put the boot in today on behalf of PUP recepients, got an excellent response and his eyes were opened with my thoughts etc. I'm not political in anyway but email local representatives, it may not solve your problems but it will make your day a little brighter

So, the games will continue but in reality, PUP here till April

JP Liz V1

Almost 200 people have had their unemployment payments cut after a surge in fraud detections at Garda checkpoints since the beginning of the Covid-19 crisis.

New figures reveal 176 people had pandemic unemployment payments stopped between March and July after being met by gardai and Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection officials at special multi-agency checkpoints.

Another 15 people had other payments stopped, according to data released under the Freedom of Information Act.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/garda-checks-see-surge-in-covid-fraud-findings-39397613.html

64869923

Dempo1 wrote: »

Sadly communication skills not this governments strong point

Ah now Dempo, it depends what type of communicating you're talking about. They're damn good at it when it's the citizens money being spent.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/closure-of-government-communications-unit-demanded-by-opposition-1.3413124

64869923

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/garda-checks-see-surge-in-covid-fraud-findings-39397613.html

While I'm all for them catching people who are illegitimately claiming the payment, two-hundred people plus those caught at the airport does not count as a surge. When Ireland had a population of approx. 100,000 back in 5,000BC two hundred still wouldn't have counted as a surge.

It's a drum beat for those who believe that those not working, at no fault of their own, do not deserve to benefit from social insurance payments they made in good faith, and at no choice of their own.

The economy is currently reorganising itself and where it stops nobody knows, but the fine lads and lasses of Daíl Éireann thought now was a good time for super junior ministers to get a considerable pay rise. Be angry with them!

Snow_White1987

So, can anyone clarify for me, if you leave the country for even a week, and are on the PUP, they will stop your payment??

It sounds ridiculous.

I wouldn’t be giving anyone at the airport my PPSN if I were to travel anyhow - by law, you are not obliged to give it to any official.

Of course, now that it’s out in the open, those that might travel certainly won’t be sharing any details in the airport now! My guess is the 104 who were affected had no idea that a ‘check’ was being conducted.

The SW department are just making this up as they go along! It seems ludicrous as if you are on DA, for example, they can’t just stop your payment because you travel - so why are they now doing this with PUP and JSA?

I’m confused!

PTH2009

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

So, can anyone clarify for me, if you leave the country for even a week, and are on the PUP, they will stop your payment??

It sounds ridiculous.

I wouldn’t be giving anyone at the airport my PPSN if I were to travel anyhow - by law, you are not obliged to give it to any official.

Of course, now that it’s out in the open, those that might travel certainly won’t be sharing any details in the airport now! My guess is the 104 who were affected had no idea that a ‘check’ was being conducted.

The SW department are just making this up as they go along! It seems ludicrous as if you are on DA, for example, they can’t just stop your payment because you travel - so why are they now doing this with PUP and JSA?

I’m confused!

and then they wonder why Mental Health services are going to be overcrowded. Driving people paranoid with all these threats regarding payment cuts and then the added Covid stuff

Could be wrong here but i think you have to put your PPSN number in when youre renewing your passport

Dempo1

So the lies continue

Michael Martin claiming they decided on a 10% paycut for all ministers 3 weeks ago. Independent asking if this was the case, why all the fuss over the extra €16000 for super junior ministers. The supposed 10% cut wipes that generousity out.

DEASP now claiming most who's PUP was removed following airport checks we're leaving permanently. How exactly did they determine that, I doubt anyone being interagated at the airport would admit such a thing or could it be flight details (say one way) was shared without permission. Its been my experience one way tickets actually more expensive than return. Interesting this statement came late last night.

Further, its become quite clear someone was instructed to update various gov websites with the new travel rule and the "must be looking for work" clause, after Leo's stupid comments over the weekend, however they forgot to update the irish versions and have been caught out. Irish Times have previous versions of each site and dates of changes.

So any doubt there was a determined effort to go after pup recepients is a nonsense.

I suspect they'll go quite for a few weeks now but the games will of course continue

Boggles

This is all very strange indeed.

The Data Protection Commissioner has asked the Department of Social Protection to explain how exactly it is getting data it uses to block benefit payments.

Helen Dixon has asked welfare chiefs for more details of their operations at Dublin Airport since it emerged that passengers' details are being accessed by benefits inspectors.

That certainly needs to be explained and honestly.

rob316

blanch152 wrote: »

As far as I know, it applies to all unemployment payments now.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/claiming_a_social_welfare_payment/going_abroad_and_social_welfare_payments.html

"f you are getting Jobseeker's Benefit, Jobseeker’s Benefit (Self-employed), or Jobseeker’s Allowance you can go on holiday on the island of Ireland for a maximum of 2 weeks and get the 2 weeks payment on your return. Since 7 July 2020, you will only be paid for a holiday abroad that is in accordance with the General COVID-19 Travel Advisory in operation. You will also not be paid for the 14 days that you are required to self-isolate when you return from abroad.

This means that you will not be paid for holidays abroad while the Government advises that you should not make non-essential journeys outside of Ireland. This does not apply to holidays in Northern Ireland. You can read the latest Government travel advice from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade."

In addition, any public servant that travels abroad on non-essential travel must take annual leave or unpaid leave for the period of quarantine, so it just doesn't affect Covid-19 payments and the unemployed.

When that story broke I went to that site and that part wasn't there 100%.

Been made up as it goes along.

Hope people are with holding their PPS numbers and not agreeing to this interrogation. Not like they can stop you getting on the plane. If they are accessing flight details, that is 100% a breach of data protection. SW inspectors don't have unlimited powers, they can do well to be reminded too.

doc22

Don't need PPS just name and date of birth

SleetAndSnow

People on PUP and Jobseeker's can travel to Green List countries without losing payment, minister says in u-turn https://jrnl.ie/5162819

And another U-turn. This government gets better and better

mogilvie

The confusing part on the PUP and foreign travel is how the purpose of the PUP has changed.

Initially there was the Employer COVID Refund Scheme. Which was a flat payment to the employer to be passed on to employees. Primarily because the DEASP were not able to process the large number of people being laid off. This kept employees being paid by the employer and gave the DEASP time to increase capacity. This only lasted two weeks.

The schemed then diverged and there was the option of Transitional Phase TWSS and Pandemic Unemployment Payment. People being laid off temporarily were to go on the PUP, but you were not permitted to work. People being retained in work in any capacity were to go on TWSS.

Note that the PUP was a supposed to be a temporary lay off scheme, where the employee and employer still retained a relationship. If the role no longer existed then the employee should have gone onto the Job Seekers Allowance. There was even a system set up where employers could contact DEASP and notify them of staff who would not be returning to work.

To say that people on PUP should be actively seeking employment is not what the scheme was originally intended for. That's what Job Seekers is for. PUP was to keep people paid in benefit so that they could return to the employer when work became available.

Finally, I don't understand why its OK for a person in receipt of Job Seekers or PUP to be allowed to go to some countries but not others. That just doesn't make sense. Surely it's the purpose of the travel, not the location, which is the issue.

MrKingsley

They’ve made an absolute balls of this holiday stuff.

All jobseekers get 2 weeks holidays so why can’t the PUP recipients just get the same

November Golf

MrKingsley wrote: »

They’ve made an absolute balls of this holiday stuff.

All jobseekers get 2 weeks holidays so why can’t the PUP recipients just get the same

they suspended the 2 week holiday for jobseekers recipients.

Dempo1

MrKingsley wrote: »

They’ve made an absolute balls of this holiday stuff.

All jobseekers get 2 weeks holidays so why can’t the PUP recipients just get the same

They can now albeit green list. Looks like data protection commissioner raising serious doubts that SW actions at airports was legal, story rumbles on