HSE taking over private hospital

Skyrimaddict

I know we are in pandemic mode now, but one thing struck me over Simon Harris today, government/ HSE now taking over Private hospitals.

Why can't they do this anyway?? I never understood the need for the two teir system here, all staff are trained up on the taxpayer money, or else come from over seas on jobs, work as public consultants for huge money but little Time back.

Why ??

van_beano

Since we’re all gone to a one tier system for the duration of this pandemic should all private health insurance subs be frozen for the intervening period?

Harry Palmr

This is the pretext for a socialist land grab.

/conspiracy or constipation?

Pacifico

Sounds good to me...would save me €250 a month

Conall Cernach

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

I know we are in pandemic mode now, but one thing struck me over Simon Harris today, government/ HSE now taking over Private hospitals.

Why can't they do this anyway?? I never understood the need for the two teir system here, all staff are trained up on the taxpayer money, or else come from over seas on jobs, work as public consultants for huge money but little Time back.

Why ??

Not true at all. Health Care Assistants for example usually pay for their own training,

Allinall

It wouldn’t make any difference.

Same number of patients- same number of beds.

actuallylike

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

.
Why can't they do this anyway??

Because the hospitals have agreed to let them have them for free

Leg End Reject

It's an unprecedented crisis that public hospitals can't cope with alone.

Count yourself lucky if you can still afford your health insurance, public hospitals will be scrambling to clear the backlog of diagnostic and elective procedures that will be cancelled over the course of this.

IAMAMORON

I wouldn't panic about it. I spoke to a Sinn Féin councillor and they said if I vote for them they will pay for everything. They are getting me a gaff, increasing my dole, getting me cheaper dental care, getting me a medical card, building better roads, ehhhhh and other stuff.

They said Leo would pay for it because the posh guys have to.

Deadly.

Atlantic Dawn

So could you present at Blackrock Clinic tonight and look to get some procedure done that before today could only be done privately?

mfceiling

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

So could you present at Blackrock Clinic tonight and look to get some procedure done that before today could only be done privately?

Course you can't.
This is to free up beds with the unprecedented demand that's going to be placed on our health system.

You don't seriously believe you can rock up to Blackrock tomorrow and jump a queue because you want to get a procedure carried out?

Have to admire FG for taking on policies,which to me see completly alien to their ethos

I imagine PBP are in deeply confused territory now,or have.recruited simon harris as a sleeper agent years ago

JustAThought

mfceiling wrote: »

Course you can't.
This is to free up beds with the unprecedented demand that's going to be placed on our health system.

You don't seriously believe you can rock up to Blackrock tomorrow and jump a queue because you want to get a procedure carried out?

Typically there are no ques in Blackrock - or waiting lists. You pay you play. Usual terms and circumstances apply. But you won’t be handed a 25k bill when you come out of Beaumont - if you make it.

Skyrimaddict

I still think the premis behind the ability to remove the 2 tiers though speaks volumes.
We can do it if we want to.

And no, I checked, they only see you for corona virus related issues, but from speaking to a doctor friend ( training done in Ireland, tax payer) who works at Aut Even, if you have insurance you still be able to opt where to go.

Wanderer78

Skyrimaddict wrote:

Why ??

Two tier systems are best, it creates a more efficient health care system overall, whereby all citizens benefit, particularly the less well off, apparently so anyhow!

The chan chan man

I would hate to actually be seriously ill at the moment with something completely unrelated to covid-19. You can forget about treatment!

Wanderer78

The chan chan man wrote:

I would hate to actually be seriously ill at the moment with something completely unrelated to covid-19. You can forget about treatment!

I some how doubt that, for example, I'd imagine cancer patients are still being treated etc, but maybe with less contact time

rock22

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Two tier systems are best, it creates a more efficient health care system overall, whereby all citizens benefit, particularly the less well off, apparently so anyhow!

Absolutely not. There is huge inefficiencies and financial transfers from the public to the private system. I have worked in the health service for close to 40 years and can say , without hesitation, that out two tier system is the worst of both worlds.

Wanderer78

rock22 wrote:

Absolutely not. There is huge inefficiencies and financial transfers from the public to the private system. I have worked in the health service for close to 40 years and can say , without hesitation, that out two tier system is the worst of both worlds.

Of course it's not true, it's a complete pack of lies, and it's blatantly obvious to, but sit back and watch the people that believe this nonsense post their admiration for the two tier.

y0ssar1an22

rock22 wrote: »

Absolutely not. There is huge inefficiencies and financial transfers from the public to the private system. I have worked in the health service for close to 40 years and can say , without hesitation, that out two tier system is the worst of both worlds.

is the idea of private hospitals not that they are run like businesses? the bottom line. they dont have the inefficiencies of a public, but charge you for that privilege.

Always thought that was the idea.

Wanderer78

y0ssar1an22 wrote:

is the idea of private hospitals not that they are run like businesses? the bottom line. they dont have the inefficiencies of a public, but charge you for that privilege.

Strangly enough, there's plenty of 'inefficiencies' in the private sector also, the concept of the private sector being an inefficient free zone is a load of nonsense, it's text book nonsense

Skyrimaddict

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

is the idea of private hospitals not that they are run like businesses? the bottom line. they dont have the inefficiencies of a public, but charge you for that privilege.

Always thought that was the idea.

It's the idea, but not a reality.

Reality is lots of workers from HSE would transfer over, it's not like private hospital recruitment starts in second level and pays for this training. It's all tax payer money

PhilOssophy

Pacifico wrote: »

Sounds good to me...would save me €250 a month

How? You'll have a lot more to pay on your PRSI in a single tier system..

tjhook

PhilOssophy wrote: »

How? You'll have a lot more to pay on your PRSI in a single tier system..

And that's the nub of the issue. The overall health system (public and private combined) currently works using a combination of public and private funding. And that's not just private insurance premiums to private facilities. It's also income such as charging hefty fees when a patient with insurance uses a public bed.

I doubt the overall system would be better after the removal of private funding (and the influx of previously private patients).

Proposed solutions so far seem to reply on the state providing extra funds to effectively pay for private insurance for lots more people. I doubt that's a runner for the foreseeable future.

listermint

van_beano wrote: »

Since we’re all gone to a one tier system for the duration of this pandemic should all private health insurance subs be frozen for the intervening period?

My health sub is the last thing I'm worrying about at this present moment in time.


Im more concerned people who need the care get it. Get well and get home.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

I know we are in pandemic mode now, but one thing struck me over Simon Harris today, government/ HSE now taking over Private hospitals.

Why can't they do this anyway?? I never understood the need for the two teir system here, all staff are trained up on the taxpayer money, or else come from over seas on jobs, work as public consultants for huge money but little Time back.

Why ??

Financial reasons. Ie they would have to spend more to keep the private hospitals working.

Instead they spend what they want to spend (public expenditure) and people with health insurance spend more on insurance and insurance pays the private hospitals.

_Brian

I genuinely can’t understand what problem people have with private hospitals.
Private hospitals are there to cater for people who have the money to pay for a better service.

My problem is with private patients in public hospitals and consultants using public hospitals to see their private patients. If the public hospitals were just for public use it would free up more resources. Letting private patients off to private hospitals also frees up resources.

People are cribbing about the wrong problem.

Last thing.

How much are the private hospitals charging the government to use their facilities during this one tier system ?

listermint

_Brian wrote: »

I genuinely can’t understand what problem people have with private hospitals.
Private hospitals are there to cater for people who have the money to pay for a better service.

My problem is with private patients in public hospitals and consultants using public hospitals to see their private patients. If the public hospitals were just for public use it would free up more resources. Letting private patients off to private hospitals also frees up resources.

People are cribbing about the wrong problem.

Last thing.

How much are the private hospitals charging the government to use their facilities during this one tier system ?

There's no such thing as private hospitals in this country none nothing zero.

The title private comes with caveats in Ireland. Much the same as private schools.

The tax payer is propping up the system.

If you think private hospitals could stand on their own two feet you haven't a notion horse.

tjhook

listermint wrote: »

There's no such thing as private hospitals in this country none nothing zero.

The title private comes with caveats in Ireland. Much the same as private schools.

The tax payer is propping up the system.

If you think private hospitals could stand on their own two feet you haven't a notion horse.

It goes both ways though.

The private patient is paying the same taxes and PRSI (possibly more, since I would guess the average private patient pays more taxes than the average public patient).

The public system depends on a cohort of patients not using the public facilities their taxes pay for, or paying on the double (e.g. nightly public bed fees) if they do happen to use those public facilities.

Remove the private system and see if the public system will be able to cope without a major injection of public monies.

Beasty

tjhook wrote: »

Remove the private system and see if the public system will be able to cope without a major injection of public monies.

I think it's something in the order of €3bn+ a year. Remove those direct contributions by individuals and employers and the whole taxpayer population has to stump it up. If not many of the specialists will relocate to a place where they can earn more than they can get in the public sector over here. Hence the better off end up even better off (by not paying directly for their healthcare) and the worse off pay more in taxes

Economically it would be a disaster

listermint

tjhook wrote: »

It goes both ways though.

The private patient is paying the same taxes and PRSI (possibly more, since I would guess the average private patient pays more taxes than the average public patient).

The public system depends on a cohort of patients not using the public facilities their taxes pay for, or paying on the double (e.g. nightly public bed fees) if they do happen to use those public facilities.

Remove the private system and see if the public system will be able to cope without a major injection of public monies.

It's not an equal relationship.

It's fundamentally flawed.