HSE taking over private hospital

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

having met a few of the non irish doctors in the Galway Clinic ,id be sceptical of how much actual medical training they had in their country of origin

I'm wondering if you met them in a professional capacity, because I've always been happy with the standard of care from there. My parents love their doctors, as does my sister. So.. no.. not buying it. Damn good hospital with very professional staff.

kenmm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Is there a point in having private health insurance now if the service you will receive in a private hospital will be limited?

The point is that public health is being catered for. This is not the time to be worried about some of your premiums going elsewhere (They normally do anyway - to profit rather than your own healthcare).

By public healthcare I mean the care for the health of all of us. Not the mass provision of healthcare for individual members of the public.

No system in the world can be prepared enough for what we may see in the coming weeks and to be honest I find comments like this particularly distasteful.

kenmm

Deleted User wrote: »

It is what it is. We live in a money driven society.

My hope for life after these next few months that maybe this will change. It will be up to each of us to change attitudes around us.

tjhook

kenmm wrote: »

No system in the world can be prepared enough for what we may see in the coming weeks and to be honest I find comments like this particularly distasteful.

The poster is balancing the cost, which may be hundreds of euros per month, against the benefit. (S)he may have the option to cancel the policy, or just not renew. I think it's fair enough for them to look into the situation. We don't know what the poster's financial/employment position is now.

kenmm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

The main problem with nationalising a healthcare system is that you tunnel treatments into one vacuum. I have cousins in the north who have received different drug treatments and cancer drugs to family in the south because the NHS is supplied differently. This matters.

The concept that a nationalised system would eradicate health insurance profits is garbage. The treatments won't get any cheaper. If anything having a privatised health system allows patients in the south to get better treatments. Under the NHS the drug companies plamás procurement officers who are essentially civil servants on rubbish wages. Corruption is rife.

Just because the NHS is part of a global system of healthcare that is massively profit driven, doesn't mean to say it (or other public health systems) are a bad idea. The current state of the NHS is dire as a result of years of under-funding (its particularly ironic that the UK PM is using slogans around protecting the NHS when no one has done more to systematically destroy it over the years.. but I digress..).

The Irish public health is bad, doesn't need to be that way and the alternative doesn't need to be private health.

IAMAMORON wrote: »

The current system we have actually gives citizens more choice. You can spend big money if you like or you can opt to have no health insurance at all. But everyone still has options, whether you are rich poor or otherwise.

It give you choice, if you are not poor. If you are poor - you don't really have a choice now do you? Because health insurance premiums are a luxury for many.

kenmm

tjhook wrote: »

The poster is balancing the cost, which may be hundreds of euros per month, against the benefit. (S)he may have the option to cancel the policy, or just not renew. I think it's fair enough for them to look into the situation. We don't know what the poster's financial/employment position is now.

Fair enough, I didn't consider it that way and mean no offence. I wont edit my post, but I will apologise.

Beanybabog

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Is there a point in having private health insurance now if the service you will receive in a private hospital will be limited?

I assume if people cancelled their plans for this period they lose some benefits- there’s waiting periods for eligibility, so you can’t just take out insurance and claim the next day for some things. So if you move from one insurer to another it’s still continuity of insurance, but if you have a 13 week gap you reset the clock. I know maternity benefits are 52 weeks

PhilOssophy

kenmm wrote: »

But presumably a lot less in premiums once you do away with the admin costs and that pesky profit that companies need..

I doubt it, the admin costs in the HSE will absolutely sky rocket if we took over the private hospitals. As well as the pensions, etc costs.

Leg End Reject

Leg End Reject wrote: »

Count yourself lucky if you can still afford your health insurance,

luck has a lot less to do with this type of thing than many people seem to think, ive observed

kenmm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I doubt it, the admin costs in the HSE will absolutely sky rocket if we took over the private hospitals. As well as the pensions, etc costs.

Possibly, If the system were as it is now, but I think what will emerge is a need to build a better system. Can't be done overnight, and can't be done if people aren't willing.. and no idea what it would look like!

kenmm

kenmm wrote: »

My hope for life after these next few months that maybe this will change. It will be up to each of us to change attitudes around us.

So you're planning to remove private ownership, and somehow remove the value that people place on products or services?

Nah. I get the desire for people to behave more responsibly.. that's definitely something that should come out of this situation.. but believing that people will stop paying for superior services ignores the essence of a capitalistic system. Specialists or experts will expect higher remuneration than those who aren't quite as good.. Supply and demand. Business will continue to determine these things.

kenmm

Deleted User wrote: »

So you're planning to remove private ownership, and somehow remove the value that people place on products or services?

Nah. I get the desire for people to behave more responsibly.. that's definitely something that should come out of this situation.. but believing that people will stop paying for superior services ignores the essence of a capitalistic system. Specialists or experts will expect higher remuneration than those who aren't quite as good.. Supply and demand. Business will continue to determine these things.

I am not planning to remove anything, but I hope that the world we live in will change for the better, and this is the sort of event that may force it to do so.

I fear it won't, and we will all return to being greedy fu(kers.. but as an expert in my field I'm alright either way so fu(k it.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm wondering if you met them in a professional capacity, because I've always been happy with the standard of care from there. My parents love their doctors, as does my sister. So.. no.. not buying it. Damn good hospital with very professional staff.

Outside a handful of the specialists based there, arrive with anything non standard and you will likely end up in UHG anyway. Either as they cant handle it or to fix their mess. It is great for standard diagnostics and treatment however

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Outside a handful of the specialists based there, arrive with anything non standard and you will likely end up in UHG anyway. Either as they cant handle it or to fix their mess. It is great for standard diagnostics and treatment however

My condition is non-standard... but enough of that. You have your opinion, and I have mine.

jimmycrackcorm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

How? You'll have a lot more to pay on your PRSI in a single tier system..

The crowd that objected to water charges will be the first to object to paying the extra money required for incorporating private hospitals into a single tier.

We can readily have a single tier system tomorrow if we wish. All it takes is for everyone to pay the extra 100 a month that is an average cost of taking out private health insurance per person.

But that didn't suit the entitlement culture we have.

jimmycrackcorm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The crowd that objected to water charges will be the first to object to paying the extra money required for incorporating private hospitals into a single tier.

We can readily have a single tier system tomorrow if we wish. All it takes is for everyone to pay the extra 100 a month that is an average cost of taking out private health insurance per person.

But that didn't suit the entitlement culture we have.

You really think the unemployed, the low earners, etc are going to want to pay an extra 100 a month? It'll mean the middle/upper class earners being told to pay..

Ahh I get it now. Instead of people paying for private health insurance for themselves, they get to pay extra so that everyone is treated equally. Yup. I can definitely see people loving this idea.

IAMAMORON

kenmm wrote: »

It give you choice, if you are not poor. If you are poor - you don't really have a choice now do you? Because health insurance premiums are a luxury for many.

You are massively correct. But in Ireland if you are poor you get a medical card. You are covered. You will get treated.

Having private cover gives you as a citizen more options. You pay your money you get your service.

Nobody is not being treated, but having private medical care entitles you to more options and rightly so, you are paying for them.

The social aspect of poverty in Ireland and the argument around it is extremely thin. This is not central Africa or anything. We have fantastic social welfare benefits when compared to other countries.

I am not going to be overly callous about the option of being poor in Ireland, but the intention is that everyone gets looked after, I am not saying there are no cavities in the system, so please don't go there. But the system is attempting to provide for all. It's effectiveness is another argument, but I will add this - If it is ineffectual with the added benefit of private healthcare, how is it going to prove any more effective if you remove the option from hard working citizens from paying a premium for their own healthcare?

kenmm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

You are massively correct. But in Ireland if you are poor you get a medical card. You are covered. You will get treated.

Having private cover gives you as a citizen more options. You pay your money you get your service.

Nobody is not being treated, but having private medical care entitles you to more options and rightly so, you are paying for them.

The social aspect of poverty in Ireland and the argument around it is extremely thin. This is not central Africa or anything. We have fantastic social welfare benefits when compared to other countries.

I am not going to be overly callous about the option of being poor in Ireland, but the intention is that everyone gets looked after, I am not saying there are no cavities in the system, so please don't go there. But the system is attempting to provide for all. It's effectiveness is another argument, but I will add this - If it is ineffectual with the added benefit of private healthcare, how is it going to prove any more effective if you remove the option from hard working citizens from paying a premium for their own healthcare?

I agree - the benefits in Ireland are generally quite good - but health care is all over the place. Personally I have made the choice not to pay for healthcare because I don't really see the value in it. Most of the things I need (GP now and again, physio the odd time) I still have to pay anyway. But I think the public system could be vastly improved. I believe it should also come from central taxation. I don't want to get into the ins and outs of the net cost of that for each class of citizen, because really that would be looking at taxation as a whole (for example, I feel at present I get very little value for my tax money already, compared to others)

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

My condition is non-standard... but enough of that. You have your opinion, and I have mine.

I did say outside of a handful of specialists. There are some outstanding teams, one of which treated a close family member of mine

Geuze

kenmm wrote: »

But I think the public system could be vastly improved. I believe it should also come from central taxation.

It does.

kenmm

Geuze wrote: »

It does.

I know the current system is mostly free to use.

I mean the 'improved, bestest ever super duper free at the point of use for all' system that I haven't yet designed.

ILoveYourVibes

van_beano wrote: »

Since we’re all gone to a one tier system for the duration of this pandemic should all private health insurance subs be frozen for the intervening period?

But they cover your stays in public hospitals too.

ILoveYourVibes

kenmm wrote: »

I know the current system is mostly free to use.

I mean the 'improved, bestest ever super duper free at the point of use for all' system that I haven't yet designed.

People don't believe i was left with a 1500 bill after a hospital say of 5 days.

Yes health insurance picked it up ...

Its not just your bed its testing MRI scans etc.

ted1

_Brian wrote: »

I genuinely can’t understand what problem people have with private hospitals.
Private hospitals are there to cater for people who have the money to pay for a better service.

My problem is with private patients in public hospitals and consultants using public hospitals to see their private patients. If the public hospitals were just for public use it would free up more resources. Letting private patients off to private hospitals also frees up resources.

People are cribbing about the wrong problem.

Last thing.

How much are the private hospitals charging the government to use their facilities during this one tier system ?

Oh I go to a public hospital and stay fir a night it’s free , if I go to a public hospital and have health insurance they’ll charge the insurance company approx 800 euro. The care will be the exact same. Private insurance is propping up the public system

ILoveYourVibes

ted1 wrote: »

Oh I go to a public hospital and stay fir a night it’s free , if I go to a public hospital and have health insurance they’ll charge the insurance company approx 800 euro. The care will be the exact same. Private insurance is propping up the public system

And every time you do it your policy is either harder to renew if you are older ..or more expensive

They will actually not send you emails of letters telling you to renew if you are older to LET it run out.

mirrorwall14

Anyone know how this work for scheduled surgeries? I’m due to have one 7th April. I think I have to cancel anyways as I’ve no childcare

1641

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

And every time you do it your policy is either harder to renew if you are older ..or more expensive

They will actually not send you emails of letters telling you to renew if you are older to LET it run out.

What insurance company is that? We have always got email renewal notices from VHI.

ted1

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

And every time you do it your policy is either harder to renew if you are older ..or more expensive

They will actually not send you emails of letters telling you to renew if you are older to LET it run out.

I don’t think that’s true. As Your policy auto renews

_Brian

Heard yesterday that the private’s will be used as the non Covid centres.

Part of their agreement was they didn’t want to take in Covid patients but will take up the routine work that is being delayed in response to the crisis.

Be interesting to see if that’s the case.

y0ssar1an22

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Anyone know how this work for scheduled surgeries? I’m due to have one 7th April. I think I have to cancel anyways as I’ve no childcare

if elective and/or not major it will likely be cancelled. Dont cancel it yourself, you could be waiting years to get it done again. Do you have anyone who can mind the kid(s)?

PhilOssophy

_Brian wrote: »

Heard yesterday that the private’s will be used as the non Covid centres.

Part of their agreement was they didn’t want to take in Covid patients but will take up the routine work that is being delayed in response to the crisis.

Be interesting to see if that’s the case.

That will work until the public hospitals are swamped by numbers, which probably won't take long in fairness.
But at the same time it does make sense that people with other non-COVID 19 conditions are not cared for in the same hospital, so the approach is probably right for now. I'd say anything non-emergency will be shelved for now though.

PhilOssophy

PhilOssophy wrote: »

That will work until the public hospitals are swamped by numbers, which probably won't take long in fairness.
But at the same time it does make sense that people with other non-COVID 19 conditions are not cared for in the same hospital, so the approach is probably right for now. I'd say anything non-emergency will be shelved for now though.

Except that we really don't know how many people, or which people are carrying the virus.. So, it seems to me, that trying to keep them separate is a rather weak gesture. Unless we're going to have hospitals that only are accessible by people who have been tested, and been in isolation until they enter the hospital grounds?

PhilOssophy

Deleted User wrote: »

Except that we really don't know how many people, or which people are carrying the virus.. So, it seems to me, that trying to keep them separate is a rather weak gesture. Unless we're going to have hospitals that only are accessible by people who have been tested, and been in isolation until they enter the hospital grounds?

True. Good point. I don't know really, maybe they will only admit people with no symptoms, or test them before admission, I don't know how they'll manage that one.

iamwhoiam

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

And every time you do it your policy is either harder to renew if you are older ..or more expensive

They will actually not send you emails of letters telling you to renew if you are older to LET it run out.

Laya send me e mails and always have and its automatically renewed unless I contact them

JPCN1

_Brian wrote: »

Heard yesterday that the private’s will be used as the non Covid centres.

Part of their agreement was they didn’t want to take in Covid patients but will take up the routine work that is being delayed in response to the crisis.

Be interesting to see if that’s the case.

Doubt that very much as half the countries ICU beds are in private hospitals and they'll sadly be needed.

IAMAMORON

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

And every time you do it your policy is either harder to renew if you are older ..or more expensive

They will actually not send you emails of letters telling you to renew if you are older to LET it run out.

Of course they do.

Health insurance companies make a fortune losing customers every year.:rolleyes:

At least if you are trying to spread ridiculous uncredulous crap you could at least think it through.... just for a second?

IAMAMORON

_Brian wrote: »

Heard yesterday that the private’s will be used as the non Covid centres.

Part of their agreement was they didn’t want to take in Covid patients but will take up the routine work that is being delayed in response to the crisis.

Be interesting to see if that’s the case.

The best ICU's in the country are situated in Private hospitals. I would imagine that they will be getting used as necessary.

It astonishes me that some posters are getting the impression that people with private health care are somehow some rich entitled snobs who are destroying the health system. The stereotyping and inverse snobbery is simply appalling.

Health insurance is an option and a choice that citizens in this country are afforded if they wish to avail of it. I know Postmen, Bus Drivers, Barmen, builders labourers, etc etc who have their own private healthcare policies.

Any clueless lefties posting as if it is the domain of the super rich and entitled really have no clue what they are talking about.

To anyone attempting to post that universal healthcare is affordable if we raise tax ( i.e. annihilate middle income workers), how you think that by the government taking the money rather than a private efficient company is a preferable solution is really beyond logic for me. It actually shows a complete misunderstanding of our current system and is quite naïve.

I would rather pay VHI than any government if I am being honest. This country has universal healthcare, the concept that we don't or that we have a two tier system is simply not true. Everyone is entitled to free healthcare. At the same time everyone is entitled to pay for private healthcare also.

PommieBast

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It astonishes me that some posters are getting the impression that people with private health care are somehow some rich entitled snobs who are destroying the health system. The stereotyping and inverse snobbery is simply appalling.

Quite. For a lot of jobs company health insurance is standard even for very junior positions.

IAMAMORON wrote: »

To anyone attempting to post that universal healthcare is affordable if we raise tax ( i.e. annihilate middle income workers), how you think that by the government taking the money rather than a private efficient company is a preferable solution is really beyond logic for me.

One of the big ironies is that a lot of the health systems on the continent are actually internally structured as insurance systems.

van_beano

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

But they cover your stays in public hospitals too.

At this time it doesn’t matter as everyone will be under the public system paid by general taxation now, why have health insurance pay for something that you’d be getting for free anyways.

There’s very little benefit to health insurance at this current time other than maybe prescription drug payment claims and visits to physios etc.

Geuze

PommieBast wrote: »

One of the big ironies is that a lot of the health systems on the continent are actually internally structured as insurance systems.

Yes, the German and French systems are mainly based on insurance.

I know more about the DE system.

Employees pay half the premium, employer pay the other half.


GKV public health ins premium is regulated by the State, there are 100+ competing insurers.

14.6% of gross pay + 0.9%, up to 4425 income pm.

Workers pay 7.3%, so a max of 323 pm

IAMAMORON

When I lived in Germany ( a long long time ago ), from memory the system was called AOK ?

It was compulsory to contribute, you paid directly into the system from your wages. The government also contributed. So essentially a tax.

However you also got free dental care including orthodontics. So route canals etc were all covered. You were subsidised for crowns etc. I even considered working in Germany a few years ago to specifically get a lot of dental treatments done.

All your healthcare is covered under AOK.

It is worth noting also that in Germany you can also avail of personal private health insurance also. You can pay more if you wish. I remember getting tooth x-rays from a specialist. Buttoned Burgundy coloured leather couches etc. I felt like I was on the set of an 80's porn movie.

iamwhoiam

IAMAMORON wrote: »

When I lived in Germany ( a long long time ago ), from memory the system was called AOK ?

It was compulsory to contribute, you paid directly into the system from your wages. The government also contributed. So essentially a tax.

However you also got free dental care including orthodontics. So route canals etc were all covered. You were subsidised for crowns etc. I even considered working in Germany a few years ago to specifically get a lot of dental treatments done.

All your healthcare is covered under AOK.

It is worth noting also that in Germany you can also avail of personal private health insurance also. You can pay more if you wish. I remember getting tooth x-rays from a specialist. Buttoned Burgundy coloured leather couches etc. I felt like I was on the set of an 80's porn movie.

Also you pay a percentage of your earnings so the more you earn the more you pay into the AOK . It was a brilliant system when I lived there and most likely still is

Geuze

IAMAMORON wrote: »

When I lived in Germany ( a long long time ago ), from memory the system was called AOK ?

It seems that AOK is one of the larger insurers / sickness funds.

https://www.howtogermany.com/pages/healthinsurance.html#gkv

The 11 AOK funds cover 1/3 of the pop:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allgemeine_Ortskrankenkasse

Mad_maxx

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm wondering if you met them in a professional capacity, because I've always been happy with the standard of care from there. My parents love their doctors, as does my sister. So.. no.. not buying it. Damn good hospital with very professional staff.

Yes, i was a patient and one in particular has a well earned reputation

Mad_maxx

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm wondering if you met them in a professional capacity, because I've always been happy with the standard of care from there. My parents love their doctors, as does my sister. So.. no.. not buying it. Damn good hospital with very professional staff.

Yes, i was a patient and one in particular has a well earned reputation, amongst fellow doctors, staff in other clinics and solicitors, a man as obnoxious as he is incompetent

His wife ( also a doctor) isn't much of a driver either as one poor lady found out back in the day

Balf

When this was first announced a few days ago, at least on journalist said the private hospitals would give themselves over to the crisis free of charge.

https://mobile.twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1242485207946518528

Now, a commercial arrangement is announced.

I don't see where the cost is stated.

https://www.thejournal.ie/coronavirus-private-hospitals-5061985-Mar2020/

Merowig

Hi

where can I find the full list of of the 19 Private Hospitals which are now governed as well by the state?
Thanks

Beasty

Merowig wrote: »

Hi

where can I find the full list of of the 19 Private Hospitals which are now governed as well by the state?
Thanks

Here you go

Merowig

Beasty wrote: »

Here you go

Thanks
Thats 18 but the deal includes 19

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/hse-to-use-19-private-hospitals-in-covid-19-battle-not-nationalisation-says-taoiseach-991061.html


Is number 19 the Beaumont or another one?

Just checked and the Beaumont is actually a public hospital.


Other question: is there any private hospital left in Ireland which is still operating normally?

Beasty

Merowig wrote: »

Thanks
Thats 18 but the deal includes 19

There are 19 in that list, and I believe it to be a complete list

The Beaumont Private is just for consultants - it's the main hospital that is used for any procedures (or more often than not, I think, other private hospitals)