Let China pay the bill

Podge201

That seems to be a prevalent opinion by some. Should they contribute to this massacre?

noodler

Edgey.

John_Rambo

Podge201 wrote: »

That seems to be a prevalent opinion by some. Should they contribute to this massacre?

What do you think Podge? Should we cripple China's economy, work against them and not learn from them? Deprive ourselves of the produce we rely on for our every day needs?

Expand.

Ficheall

Podge201 wrote: »

That seems to be a prevalent opinion by some. Should they contribute to this massacre?

Prevalent opinion by some... idiots?

endacl

Podge201 wrote: »

That seems to be a prevalent opinion by some. Should they contribute to this massacre?

If it’s ‘by some’ it’s not ‘prevelant’.

Also, no. Don’t be daft.

Yurt2

Imagine for a moment if the Soviet Union mounted a global PR campaign immediately following Chernobyl painting it as some sort of national victory, evidential of their system's superiority and a showcase for their global leadership ambitions. That's more or less what's going on here. And a surprising amount of people in the west are swallowing it. The final tally isn't in, but I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that this is more damaging than the events in Ukraine all those years ago in public health and economic terms.

At the very least this should be cause for every country to re-evaluate their relationship with the Chinese Communist Party. You'd fear too many have been bought already and with the impending recession, many more will be willing to be bought.

jimmycrackcorm

We should be at least grateful that China shared the genome of the virus that will help get a vaccine.
Viruses can start anywhere, witness Ebola, and even Spanish flu is thought to have originated in the US
China seems to have more than it's fair share of newer starts though such as sars.

No. China shouldn't pay, the appropriate response is for the world to action China on the way that it tried to cover up the outbreak and punish people who were trying to tell what was happening.

Tariffs and other such financial penalties until it's demonstrated that they can be open about that.

Peregrinus

If claims for compensation are going to be thrown around, I think the Chinese might feel there are some outstanding claims they'd like to press themselves.

Yurt2

Peregrinus wrote: »

If claims for compensation are going to be thrown around, I think the Chinese might feel there are some outstanding claims they'd like to press themselves.

Oh don't worry, the Chinese Communist Party have been dining out on the Opium Wars and the unequal treaties of the 19th century since their inception. Funnily they never quite get around to bellyaching about Vladivostok and the Russian Far East which was Chinese until the Russian Empire nabbed it.

A far more recent wrong commited by their own hand and to their own people was the Great Leap Forward and the horrors of the Cultural Revolution, but that's verboten to talk about, and the adventures of Johnny Englishman a century and a half ago is a far more popular topic of conversation around the dinner table.

Del Griffith

Did the yanks pick up the bill for Swine flu?

McGiver

Peregrinus wrote:

If claims for compensation are going to be thrown around, I think the Chinese might feel there are

Not a big fan of British imperialism but honestly this is way off. Long time ago, you can't really apply international law anymore etc in this case.

McGiver

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

We should be at least grateful that China shared the genome of the virus that will help get a vaccine. Viruses can start anywhere, witness Ebola, and even Spanish flu is thought to have originated in the US China seems to have more than it's fair share of newer starts though such as sars.

Grateful? They release ****e due to disgusting culinary habits and over population on let's say. Then they suppress the info, then it's too late to contain and they cause a global pandemic. And then so that they don't lose face and make themselves look great they release the genome and we should thank them? No, really no.

Ebola is irrelevant it can't spread globally, it can never become a pandemic.

Now, not sure if you are aware but almost all pandemic strains of influenza and coronavirus come from China. Influenza kills very many people annually. And this new coronavirus is another addition to the list of Chinese pandemics which are going to stay in circulation.

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

No. China shouldn't pay, the appropriate response is for the world to action China on the way that it tried to cover up the outbreak and punish people who were trying to tell what was happening.

How do you recommend to me do that?

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

Tariffs and other such financial penalties until it's demonstrated that they can be open about that.

Tariffs hurt more us not them. Pointless. The only way is to steer away from Chinese manufacturing and simply boycott their goods. But it's really hard to do.

Ficheall

McGiver wrote: »

Not a big fan of British imperialism but honestly this is way off. Long time ago, you can't really apply international law anymore etc in this case.

What would you deem a reasonable timeframe, as a matter of interest?

20silkcut

Chernobyl, Sars, covid 19 the one common thread seems to be communism not to mention the horrific Ukrainian famine of the 1930’s and the insane Chinese great leap backwards famine of 1959-62.
It’s been one continuous f**k up of a murderous ideology

Yet a year or two or go I was in my local bookshop and saw an entire book stand dedicated to Karl f***ing Marx.

Ficheall

Don't forget swine flu, Hiroshima, and An Gorta Mór.

20silkcut

Ficheall wrote: »

Don't forget swine flu, Hiroshima, and An Gorta Mór.

Not to get into arguments over morbidity but the body counts do not compare.
Communism / socialism has killed far more than any of the above.

Ficheall

20silkcut wrote: »

Not to get into arguments over morbidity but the body counts do not compare.
Communism / socialism has killed far more than any of the above.

The Chinese invented gunpowder too. Though capitalism has led to many more wars than communism has, so maybe that doesn't suit the narrative.

Tobacco use accounts for 7 million deaths a year. That any use to you?

Peregrinus

McGiver wrote: »

Not a big fan of British imperialism but honestly this is way off. Long time ago, you can't really apply international law anymore etc in this case.

Nor do I think you can apply international law to seek compensation from a country which you think has mismanaged a novel infection, with the result that the infection has spread beyond their borders. International law provides no such remedy.

If it did, two interesting questions would arise.

First, does this apply only to the country in which the virus appears to have originated, or to any country which mismanaged it, resulting in the virus spreading to another country? It seems bizarre to argue that China has a responsiblity to contain the virus within China but, once it spreads to the US, the US does not have a similar responsiblity to contain it within the US. And if this question were to be asked, of course, the US might be in an embarrassing position.

Secondly, even if this principle is confined to the country in which a disease appears to have originated, the US might have occasion to be embarrassed anyway, since quite a number of infection\us diseases which originated there have spread elsewhere, including Norwalk Virus, Pontiac Fever, Lyme Disease and of course Legionnaire's Disease. Was there any lack of proper action on the part of the US authorities? Spanish Flu, one of the worst epidemics in history, almost certainly originated either in a British military base or a US military base, and both countries actively suppressed information about the disease.

Yurt2

20silkcut wrote: »

Yet a year or two or go I was in my local bookshop and saw an entire book stand dedicated to Karl f***ing Marx.

Marx is actually well worth reading and understanding. He was one of the giants of the 19th century and many people play off and use his precepts and concepts without even realising it, even the most rapacious free marketeer you know probably does so.

Without coming down on the side if he was more wrong, or more right, I'd recommend anyone to sit down and think through his work, even if he is a little esoteric and muddled at times.

I wouldn't be using his works as a guidebook on how to organise a society any time soon though.

McGiver

Ficheall wrote:

What would you deem a reasonable timeframe, as a matter of interest?

100 years? As long as the entities exist?

20silkcut

Ficheall wrote: »

The Chinese invented gunpowder too. Though capitalism has led to many more wars than communism has, so maybe that doesn't suit the narrative.

Tobacco use accounts for 7 million deaths a year. That any use to you?

Tobacco or gunpowder are not political ideologies.

snoopboggybog

Hopefully it puts an end to Wet Markets in China and many other countries.

They are fecking horrific

Ficheall

20silkcut wrote: »

Tobacco or gunpowder are not political ideologies.

Chernobyl, Sars, covid 19 and famines aren't political ideologies either, surely? Of any of those, is gunpowder not the closest?

Ficheall

McGiver wrote: »

100 years? As long as the entities exist?

So you reckon the Mexicans should pay for the 2009 swine flu, the Africans for AIDS, and Europe or the US should pay for the Spanish flu? (I realise the last one is just outside your 100 years, but you strike me as a reasonable sort of fellow...)

20silkcut

Ficheall wrote: »

Chernobyl, Sars, covid 19 and famines aren't political ideologies either, surely? Of any of those, is gunpowder not the closest?

The Soviet Union was going to say nothing about Chernobyl until the Swedish atomic agency detected the fall out. They were all about self preservation of their political system.

China took a similar line in the early day’s of covid 19. Some of the doctors who initially highlighted the disease were arrested and silenced.

Political ideology trumps public health and well being a common thread of these communist regime’s

Ficheall

20silkcut wrote: »

The Soviet Union was going to say nothing about Chernobyl until the Swedish atomic agency detected the fall out. They were all about self preservation of their political system.

China took a similar line in the early day’s of covid 19. Some of the doctors who initially highlighted the disease were arrested and silenced.

Political ideology trumps public health and well bring a common thread of these communist regime’s

Did they keep the famines a secret too?


And to be fair, people weren't exactly forthcoming about how f*cking awful for your health cigarettes were..

20silkcut

Ficheall wrote: »

Did they keep the famines a secret too?


And to be fair, people weren't exactly forthcoming about how f*cking awful for your health cigarettes were..

Yes they kept the famines under wraps. Did you ever see any mention of the millions of people who died in China between 1959-62 on reeling in the years or any historical media review of the 20th century. Did you ever hear your parents or grandparents talk of it??? It was not reported in western media. Likewise the Ukrainian famine of the 1930’s.

As a matter of interest how would you propose to enforce such an idea OP? An enforced boycott involves everyone not being able to buy almost any electronic product, phones, laptops, desktops, containing any Chinese made component. Do you have an alternative idea for people who depend on these things? From experience most folks won't be bothered in the slightest unless you do.

Nitrogan

Podge201 wrote: »

That seems to be a prevalent opinion by some. Should they contribute to this massacre?

Is that you Donald?


And isn't Mexico supposed to pay?

Beasty

It's not going to happen

And most of the posts in this thread are discussing things other than CoVid-19

Thread closed