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Dark side of the ring

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭Monokne


    Lithium93_ wrote: »
    I'm guessing she did it as a means to protect them, help them understand and to be fair to her, it seems to have worked.

    Either way, it was a tragedy that could and should've been avoided.

    She clarified this on Wrestling Observer Radio. She did not bring them right out to where he fell, just to the top of the arena where you'd climb onto the catwalk.

    Also - there was a lot of talk regarding whether Owens blood was in the ring.

    David Bixenspan noted the police report indicates there were two spots of Owens blood in the ring from a wound on his arm, and that there was also stage blood in the ring (think the Brood used it on Heat).


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,849 ✭✭✭764dak


    Monokne wrote: »
    Because neither were particular relevant to the story being told.

    A mouse in the room may have been a better idiom there, to be honest.

    A year after Owen broke Austin's neck, they had a storyline where Owen broke Dan Severn's neck and he felt bad and retired. The Blue Blazer gimmick then returned. So the Summerslam incident sort of led to the Blue Blazer.

    Also, Austin and Shawn Michaels didn't want to work with Owen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,004 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    764dak wrote: »
    A year after Owen broke Austin's neck, they had a storyline where Owen broke Dan Severn's neck and he felt bad and retired. The Blue Blazer gimmick then returned. So the Summerslam incident sort of led to the Blue Blazer.

    Also, Austin and Shawn Michaels didn't want to work with Owen.

    Well you can understand why Austin didn't want to work with Owen and Shawn Michaels didn't want to work with anybody except his crew and it's acknowledged he was a prick to work with in late 90s WWF so that's hardly on Owen.

    And I think I'm in the majority here but one accident doesnt justify him doing that stupid entrance 21 years ago tonight.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭Monokne


    764dak wrote: »
    A year after Owen broke Austin's neck, they had a storyline where Owen broke Dan Severn's neck and he felt bad and retired. The Blue Blazer gimmick then returned. So the Summerslam incident sort of led to the Blue Blazer.

    Also, Austin and Shawn Michaels didn't want to work with Owen.

    Firstly, it is not true that Shawn didn't want to work with Owen. He worked with him in January 1998. In fact, he only had 3 matches between his last match with Owen & the WM14 match with Steve Austin, so Owen was his 4th last match.

    In terms of the Austin injury leading to the Blue Blazer, it is completely tangential. By that logic we should hold whoever booked Sting to do the stunt responsible since it gave WWE the idea to parody. How far are we going back and how wide are we spreading the net here? It's silly.

    In terms of Austin, I like Steve and think he's generally a straight shooter, but his version of the Owen story has never held water with me.

    Owen had performed the tombstone many times and always dropped to his knees:

    https://youtu.be/gb8D5JZvdnk?t=70

    In fact, the only person I ever saw doing the tombstone by dropping to their ass was...Steve Austin himself:

    https://streamable.com/ch3ww

    So we are to believe that Austin told Owen NOT to do it the way he himself did it, and Owen responded to this by ignoring Austin and performing the move in a manner he personally had never done it before? :confused: It doesn't make any sense, does it? Austin gets himself confused and he himself says he has a terrible memory. It's entirely possible he asked Owen to drop to his ass.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,849 ✭✭✭764dak


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    Well you can understand why Austin didn't want to work with Owen and Shawn Michaels didn't want to work with anybody except his crew and it's acknowledged he was a prick to work with in late 90s WWF so that's hardly on Owen.

    And I think I'm in the majority here but one accident doesnt justify him doing that stupid entrance 21 years ago tonight.
    Monokne wrote: »
    Firstly, it is not true that Shawn didn't want to work with Owen. He worked with him in January 1998. In fact, he only had 3 matches between his last match with Owen & the WM14 match with Steve Austin, so Owen was his 4th last match.

    In terms of the Austin injury leading to the Blue Blazer, it is completely tangential. By that logic we should hold whoever booked Sting to do the stunt responsible since it gave WWE the idea to parody. How far are we going back and how wide are we spreading the net here? It's silly.

    In terms of Austin, I like Steve and think he's generally a straight shooter, but his version of the Owen story has never held water with me.

    Owen had performed the tombstone many times and always dropped to his knees:

    https://youtu.be/gb8D5JZvdnk?t=70

    In fact, the only person I ever saw doing the tombstone by dropping to their ass was...Steve Austin himself:

    https://streamable.com/ch3ww

    So we are to believe that Austin told Owen NOT to do it the way he himself did it, and Owen responded to this by ignoring Austin and performing the move in a manner he personally had never done it before? :confused: It doesn't make any sense, does it? Austin gets himself confused and he himself says he has a terrible memory. It's entirely possible he asked Owen to drop to his ass.

    The Austin incident is a big part of Owen's history as a wrestler so it should have been in the episode.

    Do you prefer Martha Hart's version of the Austin's injury?
    Although Owen got along with pretty much all of his colleagues, he disliked Austin on a personal level. Owen thought he just wasn't a very nice person. Besides, he was one of those wrestlers that started believing he really was a world champion.

    Their relationship soured even more during a match in August 1997. Owen administered a routine "tombstone piledriver" - a move that is made by picking up an opponent, flipping him upside down and placing his head near your lower thighs before dropping to your knees.

    It was suggested that Owen placed Austin's head too low before dropping him. As a result, Austin was left on lying on the canvas claiming to be temporarily paralyzed.

    The incident kept Austin out of action for an extended period of time and Owen took a lot of heat from the fans.

    Being a seasoned, extremely cautious wrestler, Owen told me he executed the move properly. He would have felt horrible if he had hurt anyone, but he would have owned up if he'd done something wrong. In this case he suspected Austin was being dishonest. He even told me weeks beforehand he thought Austin might fake an injury. Either Austin was using the incident as an excuse for some time off or, if he truly injured his neck, which surgery would indicate, Owen figured the damage had been done prior to their routine match.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,004 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    764dak wrote: »
    The Austin incident is a big part of Owen's history as a wrestler so it should have been in the episode.

    Do you prefer Martha Hart's version of the Austin's injury?

    No it shouldn't have been included as it happened years before Owens death and had no bearing what so ever on what happened in may 1999.

    Thats not really Martha harts version that's Owens version as told by Martha. And Owen might have felt he executed the piledriver correctly but the tape proves otherwise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭Monokne


    764dak wrote: »

    Do you prefer Martha Hart's version of the Austin's injury?

    Prefer? I don't really contextualise people giving their version of events that way. It's not a flavour of ice cream or a style of music, why would I prefer one over the other?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,835 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    764dak wrote: »
    The Austin incident is a big part of Owen's history as a wrestler so it should have been in the episode.

    Do you prefer Martha Hart's version of the Austin's injury?

    Jesus what a load of bulsh1t.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    JR's comments on Dunn that night were striking but not surprising.

    Mr Dunn will take some fierce secrets of Vince's to his grave I suspect.


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,455 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    I'd say JR is a bit of a nasty so and so


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    I'd say JR is a bit of a nasty so and so

    Yeah it seems so, but are you questioning what he claimed about that night?


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,455 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Yeah it seems so, but are you questioning what he claimed about that night?

    Nah just a general opinion of him


  • Registered Users Posts: 60,698 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Was Ross head of Talent Relations at the time?

    If Owen had concerns that would have been one of his first ports of call would it not if he was concerned.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,004 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Was Ross head of Talent Relations at the time?

    If Owen had concerns that would have been one of his first ports of call would it not if he was concerned.

    1999 ? Yeah he would have been.

    I mean I can't believe I'm saying this but vince Russo gets far too much hate over this while the Kansas City police seem to have gotten off from their responsibilities in all this. Why did they not stop the show ? WWE deserves the vast vast majority of blame in the whole awful incident, the one bit of blame they get over continuing the show or not shouldn't have been their call to make.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,849 ✭✭✭764dak


    J. Marston wrote: »
    It's unimaginable to me. Imagine your brother dying in those circumstances and then not siding with his widow and now fatherless kids, instead continuing to work with a slimeball like Vince, who had the audacity to countersue Martha.

    The Harts are something else.

    You don't know why WWE sued.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,835 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    764dak wrote: »
    You don't know why WWE sued.

    We sort of do and its seems reasonable if true

    WWE ATTORNEY RESPONDS TO MARTHA HART'S COMMENTS ON LAWSUIT


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,301 ✭✭✭✭gerrybbadd


    A thought I just had Re: Owen's stunt, that I can't quite reconcile in my head.

    We know he fell during a pre recorded video segment, being shown on the big screen, and to the TV audience watching at home. So, what was the ****ing point in dropping him down, in the dark, from the ceiling, with virtually nobody watching? People at home wouldn't get to see the stunt as the pre recorded segment was being broadcast. Most the audience were watching the big screen too, as explained by many of the audience present.

    Owen dropped to the ring, in the dark, in a stupid stunt, for an audience of nobody.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,454 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    gerrybbadd wrote: »
    A thought I just had Re: Owen's stunt, that I can't quite reconcile in my head.

    We know he fell during a pre recorded video segment, being shown on the big screen, and to the TV audience watching at home. So, what was the ****ing point in dropping him down, in the dark, from the ceiling, with virtually nobody watching? People at home wouldn't get to see the stunt as the pre recorded segment was being broadcast. Most the audience were watching the big screen too, as explained by many of the audience present.

    Owen dropped to the ring, in the dark, in a stupid stunt, for an audience of nobody.

    I think he was due to start the stunt after the pre-recorded package, he fell from the beam in the roof. Or that's how I recall it from the time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,133 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    Yeah think they said he was hanging beside the beam, getting ready to be lowered


  • Registered Users Posts: 60,698 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    ‘Dark Side Of The Ring’ Crowned Vice TV’s Highest Rated Show In Cable Net’s History
    Wrestling doc series Dark Side of the Ring has become the highest rated show for Vice TV since its launch four years ago.

    The season finale, which aired on May 19, averaged 390,000 live plus three viewers in the 18-49 demographic, which was 15% higher than its previous record, set by the show earlier in the season.

    This included a total number of viewers of 626,000 live plus three, up 12% on the previous week’s episode, according to Nielsen. The second season was also up 73% on the first season in the 18-49 demo.

    The network, which took over A+E Networks’ H2, launched as Viceland in February 2016 and was rebranded to Vice TV earlier this year.

    The second season of Dark Side of the Ring, which is produced by Evan Husney and Jason Eisener at Vice Studios, consists of ten episodes, up from six for season one. The network also launched an aftershow, hosted by comedian and wrestling fan Chris Gethard, that has been produced remotely following the coronavirus production shutdown.

    The second season of the series launched at the end of March with a two-part special about the story of Chris Benoit, who in 2007, killed his wife Nancy and 7-year-old son Daniel before hanging himself.

    Other stories this season include the murder of Dino Bravo, the controversial “Brawl for All” tournament that led to career-ending injuries, the feared career of New Jack, David Schultz’s violent run-in with a 20/20 reporter, the death of Nancy Argentino, Jimmy Snuka’s girlfriend, the inside story of wrestling’s ultimate tag team partnership Hawk and Animal; Herb Abrams’ fanatical attempt to build a wrestling empire and the devastating story of Owen Hart’s stunt that went tragically wrong.

    Morgan Hertzan, EVP & General Manager, Vice TV told Deadline that he was “eagerly looking forward to explore more ways” to do Dark Side of the Ring as well as expand the franchise out to other areas. “We are using it to inform other shows that we’re greenlighting. The audience is telling us they love this kind of storytelling so we want to keep delivering on that over and over again,” he said.

    He added that he was “ecstatic” about the ratings for the show. “Audiences respond to our courageous compelling storytelling, and this series has proven to be heavyweight in the television landscape,” he added. “I am very proud to partner with the incredible creatives at Vice Studios, and tag team executive producers Evan Husney and Jason Eisener who have so skillfully crafted this show. It is in every way the no holds barred type of programming that you can expect to see on Vice TV. Looking forward to the next KO.”

    https://deadline.com/2020/05/dark-side-of-the-ring-ratings-vice-1202945179/


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,835 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    gerrybbadd wrote: »
    A thought I just had Re: Owen's stunt, that I can't quite reconcile in my head.

    We know he fell during a pre recorded video segment, being shown on the big screen, and to the TV audience watching at home. So, what was the ****ing point in dropping him down, in the dark, from the ceiling, with virtually nobody watching? People at home wouldn't get to see the stunt as the pre recorded segment was being broadcast. Most the audience were watching the big screen too, as explained by many of the audience present.

    Owen dropped to the ring, in the dark, in a stupid stunt, for an audience of nobody.

    It was meant to cut to him at the end of the drop tangled up in the ropes, comedy style.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,004 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    The whole coming out first with the quick release because if he came out second the godfather would just attack him doesn't really stand up when you think about the godfathers entrance which unless the godfather was going to sprint to the ring while Owen was hanging there then Owen would have had time to unhook himself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Blanco100


    Would love to see the guys do a documentary on some of the more legendary off camera rows. There would be fluctuating stories obviously, shoots like Brock and Angle for instance. See who the legitimate badasses are, that brawl for all so utterly failed to do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,182 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    Blanco100 wrote: »
    Would love to see the guys do a documentary on some of the more legendary off camera rows. There would be fluctuating stories obviously, shoots like Brock and Angle for instance. See who the legitimate badasses are, that brawl for all so utterly failed to do.

    I remember reading somewhere about all the real backstage scraps and Sin Cara is supposed to be a hard man. Apparently he's had altercations with Sheamus, Simon Gotch and Jericho and come out on top in all of them.

    Sheamus on the other hand doesn't have the best record, 0-2 against Sin Cara and Yoshi Tatsu.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,849 ✭✭✭764dak


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    The whole coming out first with the quick release because if he came out second the godfather would just attack him doesn't really stand up when you think about the godfathers entrance which unless the godfather was going to sprint to the ring while Owen was hanging there then Owen would have had time to unhook himself.

    On the aftershow, the Godfather said that Owen's entrance was supposed to be before his.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,849 ✭✭✭764dak


    The Nal wrote: »
    We sort of do and its seems reasonable if true

    WWE ATTORNEY RESPONDS TO MARTHA HART'S COMMENTS ON LAWSUIT

    The documentary only mentioned one defendant and ignored Lewmar.

    The Harts and Lewmar set up a Mary Carter agreement:
    https://www.americanbar.org/groups/litigation/committees/admiralty/practice/2018/what-is-a-mary-carter-agreement/
    “a contract by which one co-defendant secretly agrees with the plaintiff that, if such defendant will proceed to defend himself in court, his own maximum liability will be diminished proportionately by increasing the liability of the other co-defendants.”
    Secrecy is a key element of a traditional Mary Carter. However, the lack of disclosure and the prejudice of this lack of disclosure on nonsettling defendants have made traditional Mary Carter agreements unlawful and in violation of public policy.

    The Harts and Lewmar settle for $0 so WWE's liability would increase. In Missouri, co-defendants can't sue each other. That's why the WWE wanted to move it to Conneticut.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113516936&postcount=215


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,851 ✭✭✭Pentecost


    J. Marston wrote: »
    I remember reading somewhere about all the real backstage scraps and Sin Cara is supposed to be a hard man. Apparently he's had altercations with Sheamus, Simon Gotch and Jericho and come out on top in all of them.

    Sheamus on the other hand doesn't have the best record, 0-2 against Sin Cara and Yoshi Tatsu.

    Sheamus always struck me as someone who was big but with no particular fighting skills. Like myself, without the big bit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Pentecost wrote: »
    Sheamus always struck me as someone who was big but with no particular fighting skills. Like myself, without the big bit.

    You would be correct from what I heard. Seamus while a big dude is not the hardest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,027 ✭✭✭✭cena


    Season 2 is now available on-demand on sky


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,000 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    cena wrote: »
    Season 2 is now available on-demand on sky

    Great, I've been working through season 1 on YouTube.


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