Has 'petty party politics' ever been more important?

Ludwig Wittgenstein

It's a common refrain amongst the Twitterati and Facebook commentators in response to any dissenting political voices that now is not the time for 'petty party politics' or 'political point scoring', but in truth, has it ever been more important?

It's undoubted that we as a nation are facing into the biggest crisis since "the Emergency", WWII, but why should that postpone the deliberative aspect of our democracy? Hundreds of thousands are to be put out of work, thousands will get sick, hundreds are likely to die... and policies are needed to deal with these issues. The government have done a good job so far in dealing with the crisis, by rightly deferring to the Chief Medical Officer for decisions related to healthcare and limiting the spread of the virus. Thankfully, there doesn't appear to be an appetite amongst any of the major (or, indeed, minor) political parties to go against this advice. So, essentially, these issues are not up for debate.

But there is another aspect to this crisis. That is, the Ireland that we will live through whilst being unaffected directly by the virus. In other words; welfare provision, support for struggling businesses, insurances against evictions for those struggling to pay their mortgage/rent, school and college closures, the holding of state exams, other more innovative financial measures to deal with the economic downturn etc. These are not trivial matters and to suggest our politicians should not hold the government to account for their decisions regarding these is both unhelpful and undemocratic.

Furthermore, there is an Ireland beyond this crisis, no matter how hard it is to imagine that now. This cannot simply be dealt with when the crisis is 'over', it needs to be planned for. Personally I am happy for our elected representatives to raise their issues with the government response. That doesn't mean I think the government is doing a bad job, but the sharing of ideas and suggestions about how to deal with this and the aftermath is good for us as a country.

Yes, it's time to pull on the green jersey, but only up to a point. Dissenting voices are needed now and always, the politics are anything but 'petty'.

But that's only my opinion, what's yours?

tritium

If you want to see why its not important right now take a look at Spain and Italy.

Ludwig Wittgenstein

tritium wrote: »

If you want to see why its not important right now take a look at Spain and Italy.

But there is virtually no dissent from CMO advice. No one is calling for lifting of restrictions or anything of the sort.

EDIT: Would dissent about, say, greater borrowing to fund bailouts for small businesses, lead us to anything like the emergency being experienced by Spain/Italy at the moment? It's generally things like this that are being disagreed about politically.

growleaves

But there is virtually no dissent from CMO advice. No one is calling for lifting of restrictions or anything of the sort.

Spain and Italy. Spain and Italy. Spain and Italy.

I CANT'T HEAR YOU!!11 WORDS. LOTS OF WORDS.

Wanderer78

Ludwig Wittgenstein wrote:

EDIT: Would dissent about, say, greater borrowing to fund bailouts for small businesses, lead us to anything like the emergency being experienced by Spain/Italy at the moment? It's generally things like this that are being disagreed about politically.

Borrowing makes absolute sense right now, to try save businesses, with record low rates, negative in some cases, we d be mad not to, but with prudence the preferred way, will it happen!

tritium

Ludwig Wittgenstein wrote: »

But there is virtually no dissent from CMO advice. No one is calling for lifting of restrictions or anything of the sort.

EDIT: Would dissent about, say, greater borrowing to fund bailouts for small businesses, lead us to anything like the emergency being experienced by Spain/Italy at the moment? It's generally things like this that are being disagreed about politically.

You can talk all you want about loans and bailouts. Until we have this thing beaten globally then no one has a ****ing clue what’s it going to cost,where those funds might come from and where they’ll most be needed. Two things are pretty certain 1.) the dog eat dog capitalism beloved of the right isn’t going to be in a particularly healthy state at the end of this and 2.) the magic money tree socialism beloved of the left is also not going to be an option either

So frankly rather than dissenting the current shower on both sides probably need to **** off for a while and find some new policies since theirs won’t work anymore

hmmm

There are times where every responsible party has to try and tack towards the centre, and find as much consensus as they can. This is definitely one of those times.

It might mean setting aside some aspects of policy (e.g. FG are spending far more than they would like), and it might mean setting aside some aspects of policy which a party knows is contentious (now is not the time to start politicking about Apple's money).

There will be a few parties on either extreme which will never come into the centre. Well and good, thankfully as a country we have a relatively large political centre.

This will be a test of all the larger parties, or those aspiring to be parties of government.

Wanderer78

tritium wrote: »

You can talk all you want about loans and bailouts. Until we have this thing beaten globally then no one has a ****ing clue what’s it going to cost,where those funds might come from and where they’ll most be needed. Two things are pretty certain 1.) the dog eat dog capitalism beloved of the right isn’t going to be in a particularly healthy state at the end of this and 2.) the magic money tree socialism beloved of the left is also not going to be an option either

So frankly rather than dissenting the current shower on both sides probably need to **** off for a while and find some new policies since theirs won’t work anymore

creating money is easy, central banks are slowly ramping this up as we speak

mariaalice

It amazing what a dose of reality does for politics.

What will be interesting is when this is over and it will be over one day, what will happen will it be business as usual?

Wanderer78

mariaalice wrote: »

It amazing what a dose of reality does for politics.

What will be interesting is when this is over and it will be over one day, what will happen will it be business as usual?

id imagine there will be some sort of changes, but i do expect ffg to take full control of things when the dust settles with this

LuckyLloyd

No, because the decisions that have been taken are overwhelmingly necessary and obvious. There is some dissent on the edges, some urging for additions / prioritisation / etc. But the overall broad stroke of the national response has overwhelming consensus.

Internet libertarianism and 'the market is always right' tends to fall down when we face a real crisis. Big state socialism is called in to save the day, as it always will be.

Edgware

mariaalice wrote: »

It amazing what a dose of reality does for politics.

What will be interesting is when this is over and it will be over one day, what will happen will it be business as usual?

Of course, business as usual, nothing learned, good old two tier health system, treat the army lads as ****.

AllForIt

It's a common refrain amongst the Twitterati and Facebook commentators in response to any dissenting political voices that now is not the time for 'petty party politics' or 'political point scoring', but in truth, has it ever been more important?

No. It has never been less important.

blanch152

Wanderer78 wrote: »

creating money is easy, central banks are slowly ramping this up as we speak

That only works for a short time before inflation takes off and runs away with itself.

Ultimately, like anything, the right economic solution is the one that takes account of the current circumstances and the likely prognosis. These are unprecedented times, and the solution may be without precedent too.

AMKC

The NTMA said today that Ireland is well placed to tackle this crisis and come out of it in a good state. I hope they are right.

_Brian

There’s allot of hindsight experts airing their positions at the moment. Particularly politicians of the Left are stirring things up pointing out petty issues with the response the government have been taking.

It’s frankly disgusting behaviour and demonstrates they have no place in government. Eamon Ryan was moving towards government formation talks but now seems to have been kicked into line by the rest of the Left who all see the crisis as their day to get into a government. They are acting despicably.