CoVid19 Part XI - 2,615 in ROI (46 deaths) 410 in NI (21 deaths)(29/03)*OP upd 28/03*

BLIZZARD7

facehugger99 wrote: »

It's a mixture of stupidity and inability to want to recognise the reality.

The politicians and their advisors can't come out and say it. They just want to be able to say "well, we tried everything".

Eventually the mood will change after a couple of months of lockdown and the politicians will, as usual, follow the public mood.

The lockdown is completely unsustainable and ultimately of little benefit. It'll just take a while for the penny to drop for most people.

What's the alternative that doesn't involve killing off tens of thousands?

The economy can wait, this isn't just an Ireland problem, it's a global one. Money is being printed on a massive scale, there will be no shortage of it.

WhiteMemento9

facehugger99 wrote: »

The lockdown is completely unsustainable and ultimately of little benefit. It'll just take a while for the penny to drop for most people.

Do you think the penny just hasn't dropped for Bill Gates yet? The guy who predicted this 4 years ago as the biggest existential threat in his lifetime? The guy who has setup foundations to study this? The guy who has worked significantly with data-based teams that model outcome and study solutions from all angles? Maybe he is clueless about the economic impact?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHLJ0DaMIIc

Strazdas

The Army are saying if you see lots of military vehicles on the streets in the next couple of weeks, there's no need to worry : they will be delivering PPE to hospitals all around the country.

cefh17

Risteard81 wrote: »

Only the incredibly stupid cannot see and understand this.

What better options do you propose so Einstein?

Hobgoblin11

Is the worst over in South Korea and Japan? Why are they bringing back new restrictions?

is_that_so

Curious_Case wrote: »

Of course it's unsustainable but hasn't a duration of 12 weeks been mentioned?

The lockdown will buy time to enable preparations to be ramped up.

If nothing is done, the number of people requiring ICU care will exceed the number of available ICU beds and so the FATALITY RATE WILL RISE.

The money side is for 12 weeks, everything else will be reviewed as we hit dates, so next check will probably be about Easter.

Downlinz

facehugger99 wrote: »

The lockdown is completely unsustainable and ultimately of little benefit. It'll just take a while for the penny to drop for most people.

The lockdown was sustainable and of great benefit in Wuhan, Hong Kong and South Korea. They're now in the process of getting back to normal having successfully contained the virus.

It's the people in the west who resist the necessary measures who are causing the issues and attempting to render the efforts futile.

recyclebin

When are we going to get a better breakdown of the cases. Dublin and Cork are too populated to just go to county level. If people knew where the clusters were they could take extra precautions and lock down further. 2km gets you a long way and past a lot of of people in populates areas.

Why are we not using the resources of Facebook, Google and Apple to track movements of cases. They all have huge workforce here in Ireland so could create apps in no time. They already track way too much of our movements anyway, all for marketing purposes. Why not use that resource to do something good for a change?

khalessi

facehugger99 wrote: »

It's a mixture of stupidity and inability to want to recognise the reality.

The politicians and their advisors can't come out and say it. They just want to be able to say "well, we tried everything".

Eventually the mood will change after a couple of months of lockdown and the politicians will, as usual, follow the public mood.

The lockdown is completely unsustainable and ultimately of little benefit. It'll just take a while for the penny to drop for most people.

Do you understand what we are about to face. In NY one person is dying is dying every 17 minutes and hospitals are overwhelmed. It is described as hell only worse. https://nypost.com/2020/03/27/another-84-people-killed-by-coronavirus-in-new-york-city/

The point of the lockdown is to SLOW the SPREAD so we flatten a curve to help our hospitals. The hospitals will become overwhelmed we know that but we can lessen it by staying home for the most part.

We are about to be hit by a health tsunami of unprecedented proportions and we can help by changing our hobbies for a little while. Similar to how people used to use blackout curtains during bombing raids in war.



I know this does not suit your thinking but have a look around at your family and tell me which one you want to die. If the answer is none well then just sit down for a little while watch a movies exercise go for a short walk but help slow down the spread and flatten the curve.


I am asking you not to be so blind, as a nurse, as someone immuncompromised and as a relative of people with serious health issues. I want to be able to look at their faces when this is over. I want to be able to hug them again

Tandey

Mr.S wrote: »

Why don't you want to get stopped by the guards

Probably doesn’t want to catch a virus or a case.

Yester

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Not being funny but give serious thought that'its time to quit, vaping is very hard on the lungs and if you catch this ****er of a virus that's where it'll be targeting you,

I hear you. My plan was to cut out smoking and vape for a while before quitting completely. I know a few people that has worked for.

Strazdas

Hobgoblin11 wrote: »

Is the worst over in South Korea and Japan? Why are they bringing back new restrictions?

I believe the new restrictions are much more temporary i.e. for two weeks or so in response to a spike in local cases.

Wibbs

Elle Tasty Gymnasium wrote: »

The government has to think of the collective good. They have to weigh up the excess deaths, secondary to failure to control the virus (this will include people who die of COVID and people who die from unrelated illnesses as a result of the lack of resources) versus the excess amount of people that will die from mental health issues (i.e. die by suicide) secondary to several weeks of social restrictions. Neither strategy will spare all lives . But we have to make the decision about which option will save the maximum number of lives (failure to restrict the virus could result in an excess of a hundred-thousand lives in the long-run). Social restriction will cause less societal damage.

+1. If we continue the analogy of this being a war, like all wars sadly we will suffer collateral damage on top of the loss of our "soldiers" on the frontline and civilian deaths. Those with mental health issues will be among that number. That's the fact of it.

However we can mitigate that both personally and societally by keeping tabs on all the people you know and letting everyone you know that there's always an ear at the other end of a phone, PC, or webcam. If each one of us did that we would lower that "collateral damage" considerably.

is_that_so

Hobgoblin11 wrote: »

Is the worst over in South Korea and Japan? Why are they bringing back new restrictions?

Importing cases is one reason but I have seen pieces wondering aloud whether they have got through it in S Korea. Japan may be hitting another wave.

CaoinDory

khalessi wrote: »

I am asking you not to be so blind as a nurse, as someone immuncompromised and as a relative of people with serious health issues. I want to be able to look at their faces when this is over. I want to be able to hug them again

Thank you again for all your work hun.

It was said last night that we are only beginning this!! But people are refusing to listen. Maybe this will wipe out the idiots and leave us free of their drivel.

yourdeadwright

jackboy wrote: »

That’s fine. Are you ok with the nurses take home pay going through the floor when this crises is over?

No they should all go on strike now and complain about it,
Jesus christ man let's worry about that stuff when this is over, Save as many life as we can as people and then worry about the fall out

yerwanthere123

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

How do you know it was pandemic-related?

I don't. But I think we can use our context clues and common sense to deduce that there may be a correlation between the two.

Downlinz

recyclebin wrote: »

When are we going to get a better breakdown of the cases. Dublin and Cork are too populated to just go to county level. If people knew where the clusters were they could take extra precautions and lock down further. 2km gets you a long way and past a lot of of people in populates areas.

Why are we not using the resources of Facebook, Google and Apple to track movements of cases. They all have huge workforce here in Ireland so could create apps in no time. They already track way too much of our movements anyway, all for marketing purposes. Why not use that resource to do something good for a change?

We should be locked down already only leaving the house if it's absolutely essential, how can you lock down further?

I think those details were relevant a couple of weeks ago when most people were still in their daily routine but we should all presume we're in a hotspot right now and act accordingly.

jackboy

yourdeadwright wrote: »

No they should all go on strike now and complain about it,
Jesus christ man let's worry about that stuff when this is over, Save as many life as we can as people and then worry about the fall out

Yep, that sort of reactive behavior instead of planning has got us where we are today.

sydthebeat

poor San Marino will come out of this with the worst deaths per capita ratio.

already at 619 per million (21 deaths)

Italy a distant second at 151 deaths per million
followed by Spain at 122

Tomrota

Apologies if it’s been answered 400,000 times but I haven’t been keeping up with this thread or the news, but is it restricted to go for your daily exercise with the family unit? And is it restricted to shop with another member of the family unit? Thanks guys.

pjohnson

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

That's the point.

We are so reliant on the Global economy anyway, what would be left to save of the Irish one if we went on the solo run that people here want us to?

It shows how clueless they actually are about economics.

ihdxwz4a3pem9j

Somebody asked about using inhalers and nebulisers to treat this:

Basically, you have different levels of oxygen requirement. When we are well, we suck in air, which has 21% oxygen. When we are sick, for different reasons, less of this oxygen is delivered to our blood. Initially, we can go up on the % of oxygen (e.g. from 21% of the gas volume we breathe, to 40%) that is given by giving nasal cannula (nasal prongs) or a face-mask. This will maintain the oxygen at sufficient levels. However, if somebody is sick enough, this extra amount, won't be enough. They will need us to help when they suck in the oxygen. This help comes in the form of pushing the air into the lungs with a machine (CPAP/Airvo). Imagine somebody trying to climb a high wall. If they cannot reach the top, their first option is to jump higher (give them oxygen on top of what they already breathe). However, if the wall is too high, they will need somebody to give them a boost to reach the top (pushing the air in with each breath). They get a boost, every breath they take. And finally, if that doesn't work, we need our breathing machines to take over, and to do the breathing for them, to maintain the oxygen levels (and in some cases, reduce the carbon dioxide). This is known as ventilation. Imagine if the wall is too high, no amount of boosting will get the person over the wall. We then need a hoist to get them over (ventilation).

In terms of a nebuliser, it is used to administer a liquid medicine in tiny mist form. Because the particle is so small, in can reach the deeper parts of the lung. This medicine can cause the breathing tubes to expand, to give more room for the oxygen to get in. However, ultimately a nebuliser only helps if the primary reason for poor oxygen levels are tight breathing tubes e.g. patients with asthma, COPD. If this is not the main reason (as in Covid-19), it will not help. I know that in hospitals, you can give oxygen through nebulisers. However, most home nebulisers will not have that function. So, nebulisers will not help somebody with low oxygen levels, resulting from the COVID-19.

Sorry for the prolix tutorial! I just get really enthusiastic about explaining how the lungs work (I am a nerd!)

Hobgoblin11

Dana white - “if the corona virus is going to get me so be it, bring it on”

Christy42

sydthebeat wrote: »

poor San Marino will come out of this with the worst deaths per capita ratio.

already at 619 per million (21 deaths)

Italy a distant second at 151 deaths per million
followed by Spain at 122

It hits regions. So in a large country will be unlikely spread across every little section badly. If it hits a small country it only has so far to go to get a large proportion.

Right next to Italy they were in a terrible position to stop this

CaoinDory

Tomrota wrote: »

Apologies if it’s been answered 400,000 times but I haven’t been keeping up with this thread or the news, but is it restricted to go for your daily exercise with the family unit? And is it restricted to shop with another member of the family unit? Thanks guys.

Then go look at the news!!! Its been everywhere!!! No you cannot shop with family members. 1 person in the shop. 1 adult with kids is supposed to exercise. Seriously. You have access to the internet. Come on!

yourdeadwright

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Not being funny but give serious thought that'its time to quit, vaping is very hard on the lungs and if you catch this ****er of a virus that's where it'll be targeting you,

Since when is vaping very hard on the lungs?

is_that_so

Tomrota wrote: »

Apologies if it’s been answered 400,000 times but I haven’t been keeping up with this thread or the news, but is it restricted to go for your daily exercise with the family unit? And is it restricted to shop with another member of the family unit? Thanks guys.

Shopping is OK, restriction is on exercise.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0328/1127002-coronavirus-2km-limit/

Downlinz

Tomrota wrote: »

Apologies if it’s been answered 400,000 times but I haven’t been keeping up with this thread or the news, but is it restricted to go for your daily exercise with the family unit? And is it restricted to shop with another member of the family unit? Thanks guys.

The guidelines say you should be 2m apart from others in public even those from the same household and even kids. A parent can accompany kids but also has to be 2 metres apart, the details are mixed whether both parents or two adults can out together.
Though if everyone is 2 metres apart from one another it seems like semantics whether they're "with" one another.

NetChat101

Risteard81 wrote: »

No-one's undermining the seriousness of it. You're ignoring the seriousness of Leo's diktats however and their anti-life effects.

Being dead as a result of Covid 19 is fairly
anti-life!

khalessi

CaoinDory wrote: »

Thank you again for all your work hun.

It was said last night that we are only beginning this!! But people are refusing to listen. Maybe this will wipe out the idiots and leave us free of their drivel.

Thank you on behalf of my colleagues who are still working but due to various reasons health related etc I had to step down. Though still registered, as I would like to be able to go back when healthier, I am sadly only with them spiritually and am saddened when I read idiotic remarks as I understand what they are about to face and it is downright frightening. I still have family working in the HSE as have others here and what they are about to go through scares me.

This is something our modern health service has never experienced before and seeing the reaction of medics globally is terrifying. It is akin to the feelings DFB had watching their american colleagues some of who they knew well going into help during 9/11. THey knew by looking at the tv that many would not come back and those going in knew it too, similar to our medical nursing and admin staff knowing they could catch this and die.

THey are trying to prepare and we can help by doing as we are asked for a short while whether months or weeks

This will be our medics 9/11 and I am worried for them, my friends and colleagues. Though i cant be by their sides i will help by doing what I am asked


DFB Dublin Fire Brigade

Tandey

Tomrota wrote: »

Apologies if it’s been answered 400,000 times but I haven’t been keeping up with this thread or the news, but is it restricted to go for your daily exercise with the family unit? And is it restricted to shop with another member of the family unit? Thanks guys.

From gov.ie

-Everyone needs to stay at home to help slow the spread of COVID-19 (Coronavirus).

You should only leave your home to:

shop for essential food and household goods
attend medical appointments, collect medicine or other health products

care for children, older people or other vulnerable people - this excludes social family visits

exercise briefly by yourself, or with children from your family, and only within 2 kilometers of your home, keeping 2 metres distance from other people

travel to work if you provide an essential service - be sure to practice physical distancing

Hope this helps.

speckle

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

What's the theory behind it? Why are they more at risk?

If there's a medical / scientific reason then fair enough

maybe because they are even bigger than settled people on extended family living. and some have been forced into living in very small sites on top of each other and may have a lower age expectancy with higher levels of some conditions. maybe the have problems with sourcing water for indivual familys to washing facilities.
Wash your hands everyone.
my thoughts with those from this background who are working on the frontlones as doctors and nurses.

Red for Danger

Christ! the uk is moving at pace today 260 deaths on the board already!, that seems much faster than France were last week, france Netherlands Belgium seem to be moving at similar pace

SpitfireIV

Downlinz wrote: »

The guidelines say you should be 2m apart from others in public even those from the same household and even kids. A parent can accompany kids but also has to be 2 metres apart, the details are mixed whether both parents or two adults can out together.
Though if everyone is 2 metres apart from one another it seems like semantics whether they're "with" one another.

My apartment overlooks a nice park and riverside walk on one side, town square on the other. While its a little quieter today there are still plenty of people (couples, families, individuals) out walking/running. From what I'm observing there's very little to no social distancing going on, they probably just don't care or can't be bothered, 'it won't affect me!' mentality.

Tandey

Red for Danger wrote: »

Christ! the uk is moving at pace today 260 deaths on the board already!, that seems much faster than France were last week, france Netherlands Belgium seem to be moving at similar pace

Ugh you make it sound like your commenting on a race or something. Seriously.

is_that_so

Things seem to be slowing in Spain thankfully. Both numbers down and rate of change under 10%.

Ger Roe

NCT to resume operations tomorrow - deemed to be an essential service.
Source - Announcement on NCT website.

MrMusician18

Tandey wrote: »

Ugh you make it sound like your commenting on a race or something. Seriously.

There are some extremely ghoulish posters on boards.

Wibbs

Ger Roe wrote: »

NCT to resume operations tomorrow - deemed to be an essential service.
Source - Announcement on NCT website.

They need boycotting for that idiotic and dangerous stance.

Roger_007

Downlinz wrote: »

The guidelines say you should be 2m apart from others in public even those from the same household and even kids. A parent can accompany kids but also has to be 2 metres apart, the details are mixed whether both parents or two adults can out together.
Though if everyone is 2 metres apart from one another it seems like semantics whether they're "with" one another.

That’s completely daft. If people from the same household remain 2 meters apart when they are out and then go home and carry on as normal, what would that achieve? Does anyone really think that you can spend 23 hours a day keeping 2 meters away from everyone else in the same house. We all don’t live in 6 bed mansions.

Rob A. Bank

Aer Lingus flight to Beijing to collect supplies is now approaching the Ural Mountains and about to enter Asia.

https://www.flightradar24.com/EIN9018/244976fb

Zenify

Red for Danger wrote: »

Christ! the uk is moving at pace today 260 deaths on the board already!, that seems much faster than France were last week, france Netherlands Belgium seem to be moving at similar pace

It's not looking good for them at all. Some previous posters said we should ask for help from them with ICU beds. I think they are going to be far worse than us with the way they have dealt with it so far. Going by worldometers they have over 3 times as many deaths per population as us.

Downlinz

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1243902520046608384

Things getting serious over there

Ficheall

is_that_so wrote: »

Things seem to be slowing in Spain thankfully. Both numbers down and rate of change under 10%.

One day with a marginally lower value doesn't mean things are slowing down..

Hedgehod55

facehugger99 wrote: »

High on the thanks-whoring but light on any actual facts.

Colour me surprised.

As opposed to your "fact-laden" drivel? Your posts are made up of your uneducated opinion. You're not an expert on the topic. You should defer to the experts on the matter but your massive ego won't allow that, you think you know best. It's embarrassing to watch.

Sean 18

Roger_007 wrote: »

That’s completely daft. If people from the same household remain 2 meters apart when they are out and then go home and carry on as normal, what would that achieve? Does anyone really think that you can spend 23 hours a day keeping 2 meters away from everyone else in the same house. We all don’t live in 6 bed mansions.

It's ridiculous just cause leo is used of living in a mansion

Xertz

facehugger99 wrote: »

The lockdown isn't going to work, anyone with access to half a brain and a calculator can see this.

According to Varadkar we're already nearly at ICU capacity after a couple of thousand confirmed cases and a few weeks in.

Even if we assume that there's actually 10 times the number of confirmed cases in the country, then we've around 20,000 infected out of 4.8 million and we're at capacity.

So, if we want to spread this out so ICU's don't get overwhelmed and need 2 weeks for every 20,000 that are infected, that works out at maintaining a lockdown for 480 weeks.

Even if we ramp up the ICU spaces by 4 times, that's 120 weeks we need to lock down.

The economy will be fcuked after 4 months of this - and there won't be money to borrow.

We're doing nothing now other than prolonging the inevitable while fcuking the economy at the same time.

Well, you're going into unknowable unknowns there. If we let this run wild through the population, without any attempt to manage it at all, you could also be looking at a huge number of deaths and the complete collapse of the country anyway.

The global economy is all in the same boat at the moment. The solutions to this will have to be global, coordinated stimulus. At least at an EU level we have the scale to do that, assuming that the fiscally conservative ideologues can actually think beyond their narrow minded view of financial accounting.

If you look at the only countries that have apparently achieved some progress on this, they have implemented very serious shut downs to prevent transmission.

This thing moves through a population with exponential growth. If you stop the spread, it also stops that run away growth rate and the cases should burn out rather quickly.

Think of it this way:

The virus needs hosts. It's not some bacteria that lurks in the undergrowth. If you starve it of hosts by placing them too far away from each other to get at, then the virus dies.

It's as simple as that. It's a like a fire break in a forest.

The alternative is you completely overwhelm the health system and potentially wipe out a significant % of the country and leave others with potentially long term lung damage. It's not really an acceptable alternative to trying to stop it.

They're aren't really good alternatives to pick from. This isn't some kind of abstract argument like Brexit or something like that. It's a choice between trying to contain something through fire breaks (at very significant cost and disruption) or burning down the whole forest in a wildfire.

One's an unpleasant option, the other has the potential to do untold damage.

Gynoid

Wibbs wrote: »

They need boycotting for that idiotic and dangerous stance.

Yeah, feck, we have nct next week, think we will just postpone and get fine or whatever happens when you don't turn up, as it can only be an absolute hub for infections.

Beasty

Risteard81 wrote: »

I blame the education system for producing people who can't understand that a lockdown is pointless and futile. When it ends cases will surge. You can't continuously lock people down for a couple of years hoping to develop a vaccine. Suicides will rocket.

A 19 year old killed herself in England the other day because of the thought of indefinite lockdowns and restrictions. By supporting these actions you are promoting genocide.

Leo's totalitarian tendencies are dangerous and he is an enemy of the country.

Risteard81 wrote: »

No-one's undermining the seriousness of it. You're ignoring the seriousness of Leo's diktats however and their anti-life effects.

Risteard81 wrote: »

No he didn't you pillock.

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