CoVid19 Part XI - 2,615 in ROI (46 deaths) 410 in NI (21 deaths)(29/03)*OP upd 28/03*

PaybackPayroll

Ger Roe wrote: »

In my non expert opinion, the risk is having a non family unit person sitting in your car and having a go at the controls. Also for the tester - having to sit in a conveyor belt of cars driven by people outside of his family unit - who knows the health of whomever drove it to the centre - what if they coughed all over the dash on the way in?

If I was a tester, I would jack the job in now, in the interests of maintaining the health and safety of my family. If I was due a test, I would refuse to attend, for the same reason.

I cancelled a test because of this. Still got charged €22.

It's crazy to have some stranger crawling around your car, possibly spreading disease. I wonder how frequently they change their gloves and face masks? - Surely these gloves and face masks should be given to the HSE instead?

cnocbui

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Thank you for that. My wife and I needed that.

I think that for the next 40 years in Italy, they should print the face of one of each deceased health worker on their € bank notes each year.

BanditLuke

https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1243925483030556677?s=19

Professor Moriarty

FVP3 wrote: »

..will probably do ok given their age profile.

Neither the developed world or the developing world can handle this virus if it goes past the capacity of the health service.

Both are in the same boat.

However the low median age will probably protect these areas.

Indeed. However, they will also have many millions of elderly people and/or people with preexisting conditions. Most of these people will have little or no access to any form of medical help or medication, never mind a hospital bed.

cnocbui

BanditLuke wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1243925483030556677?s=19

That's weird, a silver bullion coin called the Maria Teresa thaler was first minted in 1741.

FVP3

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Indeed. However, they will also have many millions of elderly people and/or people with preexisting conditions. Most of these people will have little or no access to any form of medical help or medication, never mind a hospital bed.

Indeed. However a much younger population could create some kind of herd immunity before it gets out of control in the larger population. If I were old I would fancy my chances more in Africa than Italy right now.

cloudatlas

GooglePlus wrote: »

I'm sorry but there's a big enough Tesco down the road with decent space and airflow.

People cramming into a tiny restaurant to get their hands on some obscure broccoli is just ridiculous.

It all depends whether the store were only letting in a few people at a time had strict social distancing measures in the queue. My local organic shop has implemented measures and less people attend in comparison with the droves of people going to Tesco. Again the 'obscure broccoli' is your own snobbishness.

FVP3

loughside wrote: »

In view of the incredibly high error rate of the kits, Spain-- one of the worst-hit by Covid-19, with deaths surpassing over 4,800-- has announced that it is sending back the first batch of Covid-19 testing kits that it received from China.

Was there any need to make that text so big? We got it. There are some faulty tests from one Chinese factory. Let's move on.

Professor Moriarty

FVP3 wrote: »

Indeed. However a much younger population could create some kind of herd immunity before it gets out of control in the larger population. If I were old I would fancy my chances more in Africa than Italy right now.

Really? Maybe at this moment in time, you're right. However, I can't see how India/Nigeria/Pakistan will stop the virus spreading. When it does, and by the time herd immunity has kicked in, I think the mortality rates will be far higher than in Italy. Hope I'm wrong and hope Italy is turning a corner.

ACitizenErased

https://twitter.com/WarsontheBrink/status/1243929957170065408?s=20

redarmy

A woman (34) has been denied bail after appearing before Dublin district court charged with assault causing harm to a Garda. It is alleged the woman spat in the Garda’s face and threatened to give him Coronavirus during the incident in the city centre last night
@Independent_ie

Wombatman

The UK look in bad shape. Could they e hit the same death per day numbers as Italy and Spain? I fear the delay in implementing strict measures could really cost them. Those pictures of people crammed on the tube last week were unbelievable.

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1126991/

DOCARCH

260 deaths in the UK today. That's really starting to ramp!

BanditLuke

redarmy wrote: »

A woman (34) has been denied bail after appearing before Dublin district court charged with assault causing harm to a Garda. It is alleged the woman spat in the Garda’s face and threatened to give him Coronavirus during the incident in the city centre last night
@Independent_ie

Sub human scum.

smurf492

Still no sign of the essential business list?

2Mad2BeMad

redarmy wrote: »

A woman (34) has been denied bail after appearing before Dublin district court charged with assault causing harm to a Garda. It is alleged the woman spat in the Garda’s face and threatened to give him Coronavirus during the incident in the city centre last night
@Independent_ie

should be minimum 2 years in prison

otnomart

marilynrr wrote: »

The cluster in Lombardy was obviously going unchecked for a long time before it came to light. They think the origin of that outbreak was from local transmission in Munich and it wasn't related to the earlier 3 cases.

In today's news:
Virus introduction in the Netherlands took place ealier than initially thought.


Relevant also for the first cases in Ireland as per Nextstrain:

-the Dublin one was originated via the Netherlands and/or Bavaria (via Italy)
-one from Limerick was originated via England and/or the Netherlands
-second one from Limerick is 100% from the Netherlands
https://nextstrain.org/ncov?f_country=Ireland


"The Covid-19 disease was already being transmitted among health care workers in Noord-Brabant from as early as Feb. 19, new research reveals—indicating that transmission was occurring over a week before the first case was officially recorded in the Netherlands late last month. According to a survey published Friday by a joint team of Dutch researchers, as many as 86 health care workers in two Noord-Brabant hospitals were infected with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, more commonly referred to simply as "coronavirus," from late February and into early March."
https://nltimes.nl/2020/03/28/arrival-covid-19-nl-earlier-thought-study-reveals

FVP3

Anyway I can report that a well known touristy area of Dublin where I live, which was jammed last week, is empty today.

And that's the main reason for the 2KM restriction. It's not really to stop joggers jogging in forests, which won't be policed.

Downlinz

Wombatman wrote: »

The UK look in bad shape. Could they e hit the same death per day numbers as Italy and Spain? I fear the delay in implementing strict measures could really cost them. Those pictures of people crammed on the tube last week were unbelievable.

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1126991/

They could be worse with a very stubborn population unwilling to listen to expert guidance.

Duke of Url

https://www.flightradar24.com/EIN9018/244976fb

This is the flight from Dublin to China to pickup PPE and other Equipment.



This is what’s waiting

FVP3

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Really? Maybe at this moment in time, you're right. However, I can't see how India/Nigeria/Pakistan will stop the virus spreading. When it does, and by the time herd immunity has kicked in, I think the mortality rates will be far higher than in Italy. Hope I'm wrong and hope Italy is turning a corner.

You are most probably wrong. The median age in Africa is 20. Some reports say 19. I assume then that the large majority are below 40. If the herd immunity is to kick in at 60% or so then for most Africans it will be a minor cough, and then the virus stops transmitting.

I know it's hard to believe that the West might fare worse out of this, that African age profile, and Asian competence, will mean they will do better but there it is.

c montgomery

otnomart wrote: »

In today's news:
Virus introduction in the Netherlands took place ealier than initially thought.


Relevant also for the first cases in Ireland as per Nextstrain:

-the Dublin one was originated via the Netherlands and/or Bavaria (via Italy)
-one from Limerick was originated via England and/or the Netherlands
-second one from Limerick is 100% from the Netherlands
https://nextstrain.org/ncov?f_country=Ireland


"The Covid-19 disease was already being transmitted among health care workers in Noord-Brabant from as early as Feb. 19, new research reveals—indicating that transmission was occurring over a week before the first case was officially recorded in the Netherlands late last month. According to a survey published Friday by a joint team of Dutch researchers, as many as 86 health care workers in two Noord-Brabant hospitals were infected with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, more commonly referred to simply as "coronavirus," from late February and into early March."
https://nltimes.nl/2020/03/28/arrival-covid-19-nl-earlier-thought-study-reveals

Feb 2020 I'd say

Downlinz

https://www.earthcam.com/world/ireland/dublin/?cam=templebar

Nice to see it looking so deserted!

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

FVP3 wrote: »

Indeed. However a much younger population could create some kind of herd immunity before it gets out of control in the larger population. If I were old I would fancy my chances more in Africa than Italy right now.

Fancy your chances of what? You won't find too many old people in Africa.

The average life expectancy in sub-saharan Africa is about 60yo...

You'd have a better chance trying your luck over in the gaza strip than Africa tbh!

caveat emptor

Nesta99 wrote: »

Id be a bit worried if such advice was given here. There are plenty of articles on the WHO website giving the rationale on why it may not be best practice. From my own experience with working in Healthcare for 15 years is that people can become complacent when wearing masks/gloves without the knowledge or understanding of infection control. I'm sure you have all seen people at delicounters serve up a sandwich and then take money still wearing the gloves - they forget to wash hands or change gloves after. When people personally feel protected then it is often human nature to not to continue thinking of cross contamination to others.

Masks are usually used in a healthcare setting, especially in theatres and the ED to protect the healthcare worker from splashes. As far as filtering out pathogens, well disposable masks are not designed for that and their integrity starts to go after a few minutes. Again people touch the masks to adust them and then proceed to touch their face or other things around them.

It may help in people feeling useful in preventing the spread of disease, they would help if someone has Covid and if they cough or sneeze would catch some of the droplets but not necessarily more than a sleeve or hanky, awareness of proper disposal is needed like with a tissue but the inclination would not to be to discard the mask.

Seems as much a tactic to create some sense of proactive measures by a government rather than a proper defence or effort to sontain the spread.

Its all goes back to the key principles of good hand hygiene, good manners when coughing/sneezing and social distancing. Then proper self isolation with mild cases and following advice of the HSE if moderate or severe cases. Keeping in mind underlying issues and age maybe too if showing symptoms.

My pennys worth...

So those people consider wearing a mask but others not? Given it's a pandemic and we need to break chains of transmission surely it would be in everyones interest to a) not get infected and b) to not spread that infection on.

Wearing PPE is extremely hard. Adds to the attritional nature of this. From a physics standpoint respirators do reduce risk for the wearer. Particularly full face ones with the appropriate filters etc. What are your thoughts on some of the latest studies about the airborne nature of the disease. What are your thoughts on the high percentage of healthcare workers infected here compared to other countries?

I don't disagree with you about people touching their face.That is bad but people touching their face with or without a mask is bad.


https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/two-metres-not-enough-when-social-distancing-39083182.html

But a new analysis by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) in the US has found that viral droplets expelled in coughs and sneezes can travel in a moist, warm atmosphere at speeds of 10-30 metres (33ft-100ft) per second, creating a cloud that can span approximately 7-8 metres (23ft-27ft).

The researchers also warn that droplets can stay suspended in the air for hours, moving along airflow patterns imposed by ventilation or climate-control systems.

Virus particles have already been found in the ventilation systems of hospital rooms of patients with coronavirus, which the team believes could have been carried on "turbulent clouds" of air

Professor Moriarty

FVP3 wrote: »

You are most probably wrong. The median age in Africa is 20. Some reports say 19. I assume then that the large majority are below 40. If the herd immunity is to kick in at 60% or so then for most Africans it will be a minor cough, and then the virus stops transmitting.

I know it's hard to believe that the West might fare worse out of this, that African age profile, and Asian competence, will mean they will do better but there it is.

I don't agree. In percentage terms, the West may fare worse but not by a lot IMO. In absolute terms, India, Nigeria, Indonesia etc. will fare far worse given lack of healthcare, lack of containment and population size.

Harry Palmr

Guardian live blog

49s ago
16:17
Powis says that if the government can keep deaths below 20,000 during this epidemic, they will have done well.

Deaths in the UK 1,019. so another 19,000 dead and it's considered a decent outcome.

Away With The Fairies

How's China doing now? Didn't they lift their restrictions and had new cases of the virus?

We need their help in tackling this and put in the same measures they used.

ACitizenErased

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1243934612231008257?s=20

Jim_Hodge

c montgomery wrote: »

Feb 2020 I'd say

Feb. 19 = 19th February.

ZX7R

smurf492 wrote: »

Still no sign of the essential business list?

You Will find it on the rte news

Peruvian Flake

Been out in the car there, stopped at two checkpoints, Finglas road at Glasnevin cemetery and Whitworth road.

Everyone getting quizzed.

caveat emptor

Downlinz wrote: »

They could be worse with a very stubborn population unwilling to listen to expert guidance.

This made me laugh sorry. There is nobody stubborn here and everyone listened to the advice last week and packed out the parks, beaches and mountains.


When I was in the supermarket had to tell two people to get back please. Their response assured me that they were both ignorant and dangerous.

wakka12

FVP3 wrote: »

..will probably do ok given their age profile.

Neither the developed world or the developing world can handle this virus if it goes past the capacity of the health service.

Both are in the same boat.

However the low median age will probably protect these areas.

Pre existing conditions are just as important as age.People in developing countries generally have much poorer health. About 1 in 3 Sub Saharan African women have hypertension, vs about 20% of people in Ireland. Egypt has the highest level of diabetes on earth, 20% of Egyptian women and 17% of Saudi Arabians are diabetic, vs 5% in Ireland

The highest rates of obesity are generally in the MIddle East, Pacific Islands, and then Mexico, along with the USA

Not to mention the huge number of untreated HIV sufferers throughout Sub Saharan Africa

moonage

Nesta99 wrote: »

Id be a bit worried if such advice was given here. There are plenty of articles on the WHO website giving the rationale on why it may not be best practice.

---

Seems as much a tactic to create some sense of proactive measures by a government rather than a proper defence or effort to sontain the spread.

The science behind face mask usage in a pandemic would seem to contradict the WHO position:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JH04M04eQQ

gifted

Neighbours around me heading off in cars, two adults in a car, another neighbour had a chap call round to to do some work on their driveway...this stay at home isn't exactly working....frustrating for the people who are doing what the government asked us but then watching other people for what they want

loughside

FVP3 wrote: »

Was there any need to make that text so big? We got it. There are some faulty tests from one Chinese factory. Let's move on.

So did the Irish gov get test samples before they put in an order?
Hopefully better quality than the Test kits that went to spain and czech.


Never a good idea to buy on Alibaba.com

Peruvian Flake

gifted wrote: »

Neighbours around me heading off in cars, two adults in a car, another neighbour had a chap call round to to do some work on their driveway...this stay at home isn't exactly working....frustrating for the people who are doing what the government asked us but then watching other people for what they want

What colour jocks was he wearing ?

Spanish Eyes

Without wishing to sound condescending or mean minded, I think many of the over 70s who are active and healthy will NOT cocoon at all.

I'm no spring chicken but well under 70 and have stayed in the house the last while with a bit of gardening and a walk early in the morning only.

However, a relative aged 71 with HBP and rheumatoid arthritis took it upon himself to get the bus into town on Thursday, found a barber shop open and had a haircut.

Sorry now, but jayzis I lost the plot with him, but he still doesn't get it. Went off around his town this morning, dropped into the shop for the paper and a lotto ticket etc. etc.

What do we do with that kind of an attitude. Nothing is sinking in at all.

FVP3

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Fancy your chances of what? You won't find too many old people in Africa.

Surviving the coronovirus.

The average life expectancy in sub-saharan Africa is about 60yo...

But I was putting myself there as an old person ( were I old) so that statistic doesn't matter to my thought experiment. It doesn't mean that nobody is older than 60 by the way.

You'd have a better chance trying your luck over in the gaza strip than Africa tbh!

Do you think the age profile is low because they all die before they get old, or because of a high birth rate? It's more the latter than the former.

Rob A. Bank

Authorities in Finland have restricted movement out of Uusimaa, the region that includes the capital, Helsinki, to curb the spread of the coronavirus.

Restrictions came into force at midnight and are expected to remain in force until 19 April, Yle Uutiset reports. They prevent people from entering or leaving Uusimaa, except to work, return home or care for a vulnerable person.

Uusimaa has most of Finland’s 1,025 confirmed coronavirus cases.

The Finnish parliament approved the measures unanimously on Friday night.

Time for us to fence off and isolate Dublin ?

Reinstate the Pale ?

Most of our cases are there !

skellig_rocks

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

How's China doing now? Didn't they lift their restrictions and had new cases of the virus?

We need their help in tackling this and put in the same measures they used.

https://www.ft.com/content/4aa35288-3979-44f7-b204-b881f473fca0

Hidden infections challenge China’s claim coronavirus is under control

Hobgoblin11

gifted wrote: »

Neighbours around me heading off in cars, two adults in a car, another neighbour had a chap call round to to do some work on their driveway...this stay at home isn't exactly working....frustrating for the people who are doing what the government asked us but then watching other people for what they want

the West are not China , we don't have the ability to follow rules like them, we thrive because we are individualistic which is the opposite of what we need to be now , expect the worst case scenario

Professor Moriarty

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Without wishing to sound condescending or mean minded, I think many of the over 70s who are active and healthy will NOT cocoon at all.

I'm no spring chicken but well under 70 and have stayed in the house the last while with a bit of gardening and a walk early in the morning only.

However, a relative aged 71 with HBP and rheumatoid arthritis took it upon himself to get the bus into town on Thursday, found a barber shop open and had a haircut.

Sorry now, but jayzis I lost the plot with him, but he still doesn't get it. Went off around his town this morning, dropped into the shop for the paper and a lotto ticket etc. etc.

What do we do with that kind of an attitude. Nothing is sinking in at all.

That barber shop shouldn't have been open.

FVP3

Duke of Url wrote: »

https://www.flightradar24.com/EIN9018/244976fb

This is the flight from Dublin to China to pickup PPE and other Equipment.

Great bunch of lads.

A Dub in Glasgo

loughside wrote: »

So did the Irish gov get test samples before they put in an order?
Hopefully better quality than the Test kits that went to spain and czech.


Never a good idea to buy on Alibaba.com

I think you would be better off finding out what cargo is coming back on this aircraft (and the others over the course of the next while)

PaybackPayroll

moonage wrote: »

The science behind face mask usage in a pandemic would seem to contradict the WHO position:

They were using face masks during the 1918 pandemic. They weren't 100% sure it was a virus, but they also knew not to mix the sick with the healthy.

There are pictures of all the people wearing masks from back then

shesty

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

How's China doing now? Didn't they lift their restrictions and had new cases of the virus?

We need their help in tackling this and put in the same measures they used.

Their new cases are all imported by travellers.Last I saw yesterday, they had no new cases of community transmission.They were announcing plans to close their borders yesterday I believe, not sure from what date

FVP3

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Time for us to fence off and isolate Dublin ?

Reinstate the Pale ?

Most of our cases are there !

well the 2KM law, if enforced, is already doing that.

Spanish Eyes

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That barber shop shouldn't have been open.

That was Thursday last, I was just thinking that myself now that you mention it. But there we are. Always one or two under the radar I suppose. That was somewhere in Capel Street I was told. Furriners too lol. I got the whole shebang of the story. I think relative was delighted with himself to have beaten the system.