CoVid19 Part XI - 2,615 in ROI (46 deaths) 410 in NI (21 deaths)(29/03)*OP upd 28/03*

marilynrr

Deleted User wrote: »

I think its a really difficult ask of people 70 and over not to leave their homes at all with no idea of how long this will be for. I understand why but I also think its really sad and tough for them. Would the government ask all clinically obese people to "cocoon" themselves? Or ask all people who vape or smoke to do the same?

Yes I agree. I think everyone has to follow the guidelines right now in this 2 week lockdown to give us a chance, but after the lockdown rules are restricted then it should be their individual choice whether they want to be cocooned or not, and hopefully it will be.
We can't insist that they stay in.

paul71

Seamai wrote: »

We're lucky, my mum has been cocooning for a week and has only been outside twice in the previous fortnight for hospital appointments. Age aside she's high risk and has her own experience of ICU, she's the one laying down the rules and we are not allowed beyond the kitchen door with messages. She's actually far less edgy since we've been staying outside the house.

Fair play to her!!!!!

otnomart

Albania has sent 30 between doctors and nurses to Italy.
Speech by Albanian PM in Italian:
"We are fighting the same invisible enemy
In field hospitals, all over in Italy, they are also curing many Albanians
While rich Countries have turned their backs to others,
we are not rich, but we have not lost our memory either, and we want to prove that Albania will never abandon a friend in the time of need"
https://twitter.com/i/status/1244000121076973572

Professor Moriarty

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

You've jumped the shark now.

Leave it there Professor.

Un1corn

cameramonkey wrote: »

We all know the nature of China, it is not a free and democratic country.



The first article you linked to says cinemas were closed because of concern about a second wave of corona virus cases". It does not say there was an outbreak.


The second article says nothing about the pandemic.Just a puff piece for Taiwan. A long time enemy of China.


The third article you link to says that many of the viral infections were asymptomatic, it does not say China tried to hide them. Being asymptomatic means that probably no one knew these cases existed. We have many here are you accusing the Irish government of hiding them too?



I have asked here for a bit of proof of a second outbreak or that China is hiding the numbers today, I am sure you trawled google just looked at the headline and then presented these as some sort of proof that China is lying about the virus. You should have read the articles first because I cannot believe that you think these make a coherent argument in support of your stance.

I read the articles earlier today on https://reddit.com/r/China. What I am trying to say is it is hard to believe China has the virus under control. China is now expelling journalists so we will never have credible information. Taiwan has nothing to do with it. They are inviting the journalists for brownie points. If there is another outbreak we won't hear about it. There will be no proof of another outbreak since the Party has already prematurely (in my opinion) declared victory but if China returns to normality the virus will spread again. I never claimed the virus was out of control in China. It was another poster. I am merely saying that it is unlikely that it is under control as they have not returned to normal day to day life. If that happens it will spike again. In all likelyhood it will again anyway and we probably won't hear about it.Here is a good interview on the topic:

UK inteview covid

Been a while since I watched it but he talks about China and how they haven't beaten it just have social distancing.

FVP3

Un1corn wrote: »

I didn't say the virus was out of control in China it was another poster. What I am trying to say is that it is wise to be skeptical of anything that comes out of China. They have also just barred foreigners entry to China and are kicking out journalists so we will never actually have any credible reports from China. There is no credible Chinese press and anything we read should be held up under the microscope.

You should try that logic with everything you read about China, since I doubt you are reading the Chinese press. The press you are reading is one that convinced its ovine population to go to war with Iraq on a tissue of lies.

Given the virality of this virus and the statistics from China it would be foolish to think they had it under control. Maybe they do but it is highly doubtful. Was speaking to a colleague in our Beijing office the other day and he was telling me 33% of the people are working in the office and 67% at home. They rotate. That is not the sign of a nation who has beaten this virus or has it under control.

It cant be fully controlled without a vaccine. It been fully reported that they are relaxing some but not all restrictions. Then if the case numbers increase, unrelax the restrictions. That's what we are going to have to do for the rest of the year.

Heres an article saying they have had to close cinemas: Cinema Closures

Because cases are rising again, which they are in fact showing in their statistics.

Why would China remove journalists?
Taiwan invites former Chinese correspondents

In response to Trump banning Chinese journalists. They have only expelled US journalists, not Western journalists.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/mar/18/us-media-accuse-china-of-cold-war-mentality-after-move-to-expel-journalists

sdanseo

Beasty wrote: »

And if they are testing 500k a week, about 70k a day, that's nearly 10% of those tested

One of the big differences though in Germany, as I understand it, is they are testing a hell of a lot with minor or no symptoms, meaning their headline figure of confirmed cases looks quite high but their death rate appears quite low - that and the fact they seem to have more medical resources to deal with this

(imho) It's not that their death rate appears low, it is low.
Other countries' appear artificially high, simply because the disease is much more widespread in the community than the figures support.

We need the antibody test to be rolled out en masse as soon as possible, I suspect the real position is somewhere between the doomsdayers and the Oxford report which suggested 50% + of the UK has already had the disease - most without realising.

Spanish Eyes

fin12 wrote: »

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2020/03/27/the-miraculous-mr-p-101-year-old-italian-man-beats-coronavirus/#28a5518c48bc

101 year old Italian Man recovers from Coronavirus.

No genocide there.

threeball

bekker wrote: »

ICUs - anyone any information about supplies of Helmet CPAP available to the Irish Hospital system, and whether their use forms any part of the treatment strategy.

Big advantage of CPAP is that it does not require intubation of the cases for which it is inititaily suitable.

It is relatively simple technology so it may be possible to produce and assemble here.



Italians have been adapting French diving masks with 3-D printed fittings.



One study from Italy showed 30% of admissions needed respiratory support which was met with Helmet CPAP (not face mask CPAP*).
https://rebelem.com/covid-19-a-powerful-message-from-italy/

Few days ago I read a report somewhere that Italians had found that with CPAP usage a significant number of the hospitalised did not deteriorate to the expected extent and so did not need ICU beds. (didn't link it unfortunately).

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/helmet-based-ventilation-eases-respiratory-distressere
*
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Exhaled+air+dispersion+during+non-invasive+ventilation+via+helmet+masks

The Italians just prevented 1000 of the helmets being shipped to Ireland

johnfás

bekker wrote: »

ICUs - anyone any information about supplies of Helmet CPAP available to the Irish Hospital system, and whether their use forms any part of the treatment strategy.

Big advantage of CPAP is that it does not require intubation of the cases for which it is inititaily suitable.

It is relatively simple technology so it may be possible to produce and assemble here.



Italians have been adapting French diving masks with 3-D printed fittings.



One study from Italy showed 30% of admissions needed respiratory support which was met with Helmet CPAP (not face mask CPAP*).
https://rebelem.com/covid-19-a-powerful-message-from-italy/

Few days ago I read a report somewhere that Italians had found that with CPAP usage a significant number of the hospitalised did not deteriorate to the expected extent and so did not need ICU beds. (didn't link it unfortunately).

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/helmet-based-ventilation-eases-respiratory-distress
*
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Exhaled+air+dispersion+during+non-invasive+ventilation+via+helmet+masks

These are the items that Italy refused to export to Ireland :

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-oxygen-equipment-meant-for-ireland-held-back-by-italy-1.4214229%3fmode=amp

FVP3

Naos wrote: »

They need to be a little less strict on the alcohol side of things.

I just went to pick a 'collection' slot between 09:00-13:00 and wasn't allowed to have alcohol in my shop because they can't sell alcohol before 11am...

That's the law, it has always been like that.

paul71

paul71 wrote: »

It is a great way to pass the time, I have been harvesting my own flower and veg seed for a few years now. Have a 5 year old and eight year old at home and for the last week they wake up up early every morning and get ready to "go digging"

Oh thats brilliant!!
Check out the video, few different herbs and veg on it, that will be simple for them. The celery one grows really quickly.

Im sure they will get great fun out of 'regenerating'

RoYoBo

caveat emptor wrote: »

Read an article on this too. It makes sense to approach this way. People only call ambulance when disease is very advanced.

I see this as an inevitability unfortunately. Nobody will be going to hospital unless in need of serious attention. Throws up the question " When is it bad enough to call the ambulance?"

Asked the GP and said I should get a pulse oximeter and record levels daily. When blood oxygen dips you have a measurement to give over the phone. Helps with triage at very least. I'd strongly advise anybody at risk or who has higher than normal exposure.

In china, italy now here you are seeing an attitude that you are on you own as resources so stretched. By getting one of them you are helping the system triage you effectively. I'd advise anyone to get one.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Oximeters/b?ie=UTF8&node=2826263031

I'd be keen to get one of these and monitor myself and OH at home if the worst happens. Unfortunately, the delivery estimate for these items is mid May at best. Probably have to come from China.

jesus_thats_gre

marilynrr wrote: »

Yes I agree. I think everyone has to follow the guidelines right now in this 2 week lockdown to give us a chance, but after the lockdown rules are restricted then it should be their individual choice whether they want to be cocooned or not, and hopefully it will be.
We can't insist that they stay in.

We will have to do what we are told until a vaccine is readied or the critical mass of us develop immunity.

Until either scenario, countries will scale up/down restrictions based on the capacity of the health service.

The capacity of the health service is more important than civil liberties. An individual's behaviour has significant implications on others right now.

ziggyman17

Tea drinker wrote: »

Well uh... infected with what?

another comedian...........

Nibs05

Italy starting to get impatient

Italy becoming impatient with lockdown - and social unrest is brewing https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-italy-becoming-impatient-with-lockdown-and-social-unrest-is-brewing-11965122

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/dfatirl/status/1244000264522170371


Quite a few countries in Europe sending equipment back to China for being faulty/shoddy


#i'mjustsayin

RugbyLad11

threeball wrote: »

The Italians just prevented 1000 of the helmets being shipped to Ireland

source ?

Un1corn

FVP3 wrote: »

You should try that logic with everything you read about China, since I doubt you are reading the Chinese press. The press you are reading is one that convinced its ovine population to go to war with Iraq on a tissue of lies.



It cant be fully controlled with a virus. It been fully reported that they are relaxing some but not all restrictions. Then if the case numbers increase, unrelax the restrictions. Thats what we are going to have to do for the rest of the year.




Because cases are rising again, which they are in fact showing in their statistics.



In response to Trump banning Chinese journalists. They have only expelled US journalists, not Western journalists.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/mar/18/us-media-accuse-china-of-cold-war-mentality-after-move-to-expel-journalists

I don't read it personally but my wife reads it to me. I don't know what Iraq has to do with this.

paul71

Jake1 wrote: »

Oh thats brilliant!!
Check out the video, few different herbs and veg on it, that will be simple for them. The celery one grows really quickly.

Im sure they will get great fun out of 'regenerating'

I will I am interested cuttings and regenerating too, I go into a little coffee shop in the city center about once a week owned by a chinese guy. He grows veg from leftovers. I love watching them grow each week.

He is even growing an avocado although he did say it will never flower here.

SharpshooterTom

Why do the WHO refuse to recognise Taiwan?? The girl in this video was asking the WHO official about the effects of the Coronavirus in Taiwan and the spokesman firstly said he couldn't hear her question, then told her to move on the next question. She persisted and the WHO official included of Taiwan under "all regions of China" refusing to recognise it as a state and only spoke of it in terms of China? Why??
https://twitter.com/guypbenson/status/1243977329132613633

jam_mac_jam

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/dfatirl/status/1244000264522170371


Quite a few countries in Europe sending equipment back to China for being faulty/shoddy


#i'mjustsayin

Maybe the west shouldn't have outsourced all our manufacturing capabilities.

cloudatlas

Here's an example of countries helping each other 'Germany, Switzerland help France deal with COVID-19 patients'. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/germany-switzerland-france-deal-covid-19-patients-200326143043559.html

amadangomor

sdanseo wrote: »

(imho) It's not that their death rate appears low, it is low.
Other countries' appear artificially high, simply because the disease is much more widespread in the community than the figures support.

We need the antibody test to be rolled out en masse as soon as possible, I suspect the real position is somewhere between the doomsdayers and the Oxford report which suggested 50% + of the UK has already had the disease - most without realising.

Don't have a source, heard it on the radio earlier that there is a 20% false negative rate for the PCR testing we are carrying out.

Do you know anything about this? Seems shockingly high. It was mentioned that the quality of the swabs taken is a big factor here.

Edit: Source https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/health/coronavirus-ireland-testing-results-doctor-17977486

cameramonkey

Un1corn wrote: »

I read the articles earlier today on https://reddit.com/r/China. What I am trying to say is it is hard to believe China has the virus under control. China is now expelling journalists so we will never have credible information. Taiwan has nothing to do with it. They are inviting the journalists for brownie points. If there is another outbreak we won't hear about it. There will be no proof of another outbreak since the Party has already prematurely (in my opinion declared victory) but if China returns to normality the virus will spread again.

You should have read past the headline because none of those articles support your argument that China are lying about the numbers. If you want to talk about free press in China I suggest you start a thread but I dont think many will disagree with you.



Why did we hear about the first out break then if China has complete control of the media and what the world hears?



Why are WHO saying China's numbers are legitimate? Are they part of the conspiracy?
Why are China sending all these medical products abroad if they are needed at home?


Are all the doctors and nurses that have been sent to Italy also part of the conspiracy?


Your dislike of the CCP has blinded you so that you no longer look at the evidence which is overwhelming supportive of WHO and China.



Is there any evidence that China is now hiding numbers? If there is please point it out.

The interview is nearly a month old , its not really relevant at the moment in terms of what China's numbers are.

weisses

bekker wrote: »

ICUs - anyone any information about supplies of Helmet CPAP available to the Irish Hospital system, and whether their use forms any part of the treatment strategy.

Big advantage of CPAP is that it does not require intubation of the cases for which it is inititaily suitable.

It is relatively simple technology so it may be possible to produce and assemble here.

I knew I saw that before

Blueshoe

Nibs05 wrote: »

Italy starting to get impatient

Italy becoming impatient with lockdown - and social unrest is brewing https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-italy-becoming-impatient-with-lockdown-and-social-unrest-is-brewing-11965122

What is the alternative for them?
This has to be the new normal there.

jesus_thats_gre

threeball wrote: »

The Italians just prevented 1000 of the helmets being shipped to Ireland

As disappointing as this is, I suspect no one will be particularly surprised. Italy is clearly in dire straits. If roles were reversed, there would uproar here if such equipment was exported.

However, a robust arbitration process must by implemented by the EU as this cannot happen when destination countries are also in dire straights. That **** will tear the EU apart.

Kermit.de.frog

India in lock down mode...

https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1243912014449258496

marklazarcovic

In just under 4 months this has killed over 30000 people,a thing that did not exist,and it's only beginning, people go on about other viruses that kill more,they have been around decades ,years.. this thing,the measures been taken tells me it's worse then I'm seeing ..

Not a chance I believe Chinese figures .

It's hard to fathom but the world as we know it may have changed forever.

Not trying to scare or enflame

JP Liz V1

kilkenny31 wrote: »

I haven't really looked at the figures compared to France, Spain, Italy, UK. How are we looking so far i.e. How do we compare to those countries at a similar stage. To me it seems like we are doing OK.

Are we still modeling on South Korea, what is their numbers like now?

Monumental

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I know when triage is used. My point is that triage is not genocide. What's happening in hospitals is not genocide.

From personal experiece with a relative in a nursing home with very little quality of life ,next of kin are asked to sign a DNR in order to save them from going through unnecessary medical intervention in unfamiliar surroundings. This decision is heartbreaking and perhaps explains nursing home death's

CIARAN_BOYLE

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Why do the WHO refuse to recognise Taiwan?? The girl in this video was asking the WHO official about the effects of the Coronavirus in Taiwan and the spokesman firstly said he couldn't hear her question, then told her to move on the next question. She persisted and the WHO official included of Taiwan under "all regions of China" refusing to recognise it as a state and only spoke of it in terms of China? Why??
https://twitter.com/guypbenson/status/1243977329132613633

Taiwan is not a member of the United Nations.

They were "Republic of China" until they were expelled from the United Nations so the Peoples Republic of China could join.

Taiwan is still claiming to be the Republic of China as their official name.

Corkgirl20

I think every health care worker should get a bonus after this !!

Un1corn

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Why do the WHO refuse to recognise Taiwan?? The girl in this video was asking the WHO official about the effects of the Coronavirus in Taiwan and the spokesman firstly said he couldn't hear her question, then told her to move on the next question. She persisted and the WHO official included of Taiwan under "all regions of China" refusing to recognise it as a state and only spoke of it in terms of China? Why??
https://twitter.com/guypbenson/status/1243977329132613633

Taiwan isn't allowed into the WHO because the babies in Beijing will throw a tantrum. The WHO are in cahoots with China. There are reports of the WHO ignoring questions from Taiwanese journalists early in this epidemic. Taiwan raised the warning alarms in early December about this but the WHO ignored it to not offend their masters in Beijing. Read below:

https://www.ft.com/content/2a70a02a-644a-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6a68

If you are unfamiliar with the politics. China refuses to recognize Taiwan as a country and claims it is theirs. De Facto it is an independent country and Beijing's claims are just an inconvenience for them.

johnfás

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

As disappointing as this is, I suspect no one will be particularly surprised. Italy is clearly in dire straits. If roles were reversed, there would uproar here if such equipment was exported.

However, a robust arbitration process must by implemented by the EU as this cannot happen when destination countries are also in dire straights. That **** will tear the EU apart.

50% of the worlds ventilators are manufactured in Ireland we are exporting....

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1123803/

timhenn

We're all ****ed.

Logan Roy

marklazarcovic wrote: »

In just under 4 months this has killed over 30000 people,a thing that did not exist,and it's only beginning, people go on about other viruses that kill more,they have been around decades ,years.. this thing,the measures been taken tells me it's worse then I'm seeing ..

Not a chance I believe Chinese figures .

It's hard to fathom but the world as we know it may have changed forever.

Not trying to scare or enflame

What do you think will change forever?

otnomart

bekker wrote: »

Italians have been adapting French diving masks with 3-D printed fittings.

"This new part was named Charlotte valve.
The patent will remain free to use because it is in our intention that all hospitals in need could use it if necessary,”

https://www.3dprintingmedia.network/isinnova-shares-3d-printed-adapter-to-turn-snorkeling-mask-into-a-non-invasive-ventilator/

wakka12

marklazarcovic wrote: »

In just under 4 months this has killed over 30000 people,a thing that did not exist,and it's only beginning, people go on about other viruses that kill more,they have been around decades ,years.. this thing,the measures been taken tells me it's worse then I'm seeing ..

Not a chance I believe Chinese figures .

It's hard to fathom but the world as we know it may have changed forever.

Not trying to scare or enflame

Well 30,000 is still not a particularly high number, flu does in fact kill around 500,000 worldwide every year . But yes coronavirus uncontrolled would kill significantly more than that, and in places where it was uncontrolled such as Madrid Lombardy wuhan New York City it did kill many more times the number of people who would die from flu in that area in that space of time

Sober Crappy Chemis

timhenn wrote: »

We're all ****ed.

No.

cameramonkey

marklazarcovic wrote: »

In just under 4 months this has killed over 30000 people,a thing that did not exist,and it's only beginning, people go on about other viruses that kill more,they have been around decades ,years.. this thing,the measures been taken tells me it's worse then I'm seeing ..

Not a chance I believe Chinese figures .

It's hard to fathom but the world as we know it may have changed forever.

Not trying to scare or enflame

Where do we start with this one ??????

fr336

It's really great to see these positive stories coming out about 90 and 100 somethings coming through this. One of them was in Italy, which begs the question what happened to the Italians basically giving up on anyone over 65? Or was this just certain areas? Really hope that with the assistance from Chiina they can get on top of this.

Also are there any stats on what % of elderly people survive this? We keep being told they are easily the most at risk age group but given we have at least three stories of people in their 90s and 100s beating this apparently unstoppable virus, surely it's conceivable that when all is said and done a LOT of people in their 60s, 70s and beyond will fight this crap off?

Pencil Neck

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Why do the WHO refuse to recognise Taiwan?? The girl in this video was asking the WHO official about the effects of the Coronavirus in Taiwan and the spokesman firstly said he couldn't hear her question, then told her to move on the next question. She persisted and the WHO official included of Taiwan under "all regions of China" refusing to recognise it as a state and only spoke of it in terms of China? Why??
https://twitter.com/guypbenson/status/1243977329132613633

No one recognises Taiwan. It’s viewed by most nations as a renegade Chinese Provence.

Blueshoe

johnfás wrote: »

50% of the worlds ventilators are manufactured in Ireland we are exporting....

Made in Ireland by American companies.

jesus_thats_gre

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Why do the WHO refuse to recognise Taiwan?? The girl in this video was asking the WHO official about the effects of the Coronavirus in Taiwan and the spokesman firstly said he couldn't hear her question, then told her to move on the next question. She persisted and the WHO official included of Taiwan under "all regions of China" refusing to recognise it as a state and only spoke of it in terms of China? Why??
https://twitter.com/guypbenson/status/1243977329132613633

Why is that particularly important right now? The most important thing for WHO right now is the co-operation of China. Talking about the political situation between China and Taiwan would not serve WHO objectives.

WHO really cannot win in this situation.

There is also a well and long documented history of wealthy countries exerting political pressure on WHO.

timhenn

Sober Crappy Chemis wrote: »

No.

We are. This isn't going to end anytime soon. It's time to face the reality.

Sober Crappy Chemis

timhenn wrote: »

We are. This isn't going to end anytime soon. It's time to face the reality.

No.

Funkfield

Corkgirl20 wrote: »

I think every health care worker should get a bonus after this !!

I was thinking there should probably be some tax incentives or programs like the military discount in the USA.

https://militarybenefits.info/military-discounts/

Harry Palmr

Seeds for growing veg has been mentioned a bit, just go to Lidl and buy them. They have a full range of veg, flower seeds.