CoVid19 Part XI - 2,615 in ROI (46 deaths) 410 in NI (21 deaths)(29/03)*OP upd 28/03*

Lavinia

caveat emptor wrote: »

https://twitter.com/patphelan/status/1244010733714788352?s=19
Don't know how much time I spent arguing with people on here. I was called a lunatic. Follow the guidelines. FFS . That's the thing about physics and maths. Doesn't matter who says the sun goes around us. It doesn't.

Masks surely are not 100 percent protection but they do help to certain extent.


so for that extent even so little i was wearing a mask last week when i was going out, and disposed them as soon as i got home.

paul71

paul71 wrote: »

Its a factual figure how much more accurate do you require than a straight fact? Would you propose we spend 10k per head?

Because it is two topline figures ignoring how those figures were achieved. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.


Germany has a population of 83million. They can leverage that to get massive discounts on material, equipment, and building projects. They do not pay full price for their goods, we pay much more (per item) than they do


So their €5,300 in spending would, proportionally, cost us a lot more.

wellwhynot

Does anyone know how many ventilators we have in the country today? Also oxygen machines? I know we ordered more of both but did we actually receive any.

Also how many ICU beds do we have today?

Gynoid

Roger_007 wrote: »

When they had sufficient data from deaths due to Covid, they found that so far it mapped almost exactly what they would have predicted for that cohort of people, but over a slightly longer period of time.
He made a prediction that at the end of the year the overall number of deaths from all causes will be the same as normal. What will be slightly different is the distribution timewise of the occurrence of the deaths.
I think the point he was making is that whatever the death toll is, due to Covid, it will not increase the overall number of deaths which would have occurred anyway.

I am going to leave a small compartment in my mind open for the possibility that might be true.
But for now, with the images and records from ICUs in Spain, Italy, NYC, etc there is definitely something else going on. Something not normal. And those ICUs report it also includes younger people, say 30 to 50, being very very seriously ill. Some say 40% of very sick are not elderly. Maybe the younger dont get critically sick as often, but something very disturbing is going on.

brendane

Are we doing anything to increase the number of ICU beds.

When you listen to a lot of foreign commentators, they frequently reference that we have one of the lowest ICU bed rates per capita in Europe.

Are we doing anything on the scale of the uk in the events centre in London and if we did introduce emergency beds, would we have the required equipment to make it function as an icu bed?

angel eyes 2012

caveat emptor wrote: »

Wow, good point!

Your health insurance will kick in if you are admitted to a public hospital for a non-covid related illness or injury otherwise you will pay the 80e per night fee.

all about the mane

Lavinia wrote: »

Masks surely are not 100 percent protection but they do help to certain extent.


so for that extent even so little i was wearing a mask last week when i was going out, and disposed them as soon as i got home.

Why, are you covid19 positive?

jackboy

If there was a plentiful supply of masks available the HSE would be recommending the public to always wear them outside the home. Don’t believe the lies that they are not effective.

brendane

brendane wrote: »

Are we doing anything to increase the number of ICU beds.

When you listen to a lot of foreign commentators, they frequently reference that we have one of the lowest ICU bed rates per capita in Europe.

Are we doing anything on the scale of the uk in the events centre in London and if we did introduce emergency beds, would we have the required equipment to make it function as an icu bed?

we would be missing the most important "part", the nurse

wadacrack

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/opinion/coronavirus-economy.html?referringSource=articleShare

caveat emptor

little bess wrote: »

Absolutely. My husband has been wearing ffp3 respirators in work (construction) when in the vicinity of any colleagues for the last two weeks and has been laughed at and told ‘they don’t work for the virus!’

This is from people who have been trained to use them for protection and have had them readily available to use.

Can people not use their own brains and do some f****n research.

That's part of the reason I posted about it. I'd hate to think people getting abused because they are right. It's clear they work.

It's like saying a gun can't kill someone because most people shoot themselves in the foot and soldiers need them first. Doesn't address the people who saw this for what it was and got one ahead of time when there wasn't a burden on the system.

all about the mane

jackboy wrote: »

If there was a plentiful supply of masks available the HSE would be recommending the public to always wear them outside the home. Don’t believe the lies that they are not effective.

No they wouldn't

jackboy

jackboy wrote: »

If there was a plentiful supply of masks available the HSE would be recommending the public to always wear them outside the home. Don’t believe the lies that they are not effective.

They're not freely available
They're not all effective
To be effective everyone would need the correct versions and wear them at all times
Everyone would need to know how to properly handle them (Top Tip: People are idiots)
They would give morons an excuse to break isolation (the most effective measure)

Lavinia

all about the mane wrote: »

Why, are you covid19 positive?

a week after my last going out i am okay so i suppose i can safely say that i am not.


however people can be positive and have no symptoms and walk around spreading it without even knowing it

jackboy

Deleted User wrote: »

They're not freely available
They're not all effective
To be effective everyone would need the correct versions and wear them at all times
Everyone would need to know how to properly handle them (Top Tip: People are idiots)
They would give morons an excuse to break isolation (the most effective measure)

In other words, they are effective.

all about the mane

Lavinia wrote: »

a week after my last going out i am okay so i suppose i can safely say that i am not.


however people can be positive and have no symptoms and walk around spreading it without even knowing it

they can. but a mask isn't going to make any difference

caveat emptor

MipMap wrote: »

I have a fridge full of fish fingers and bread but I really need a bag of sugar, peanut butter and I'm running low on Bacardi!

Whatever about the virus, that diet truly scares me.

all about the mane

jackboy wrote: »

In other words, they are effective.

No, they are not

Roger_007

Roger_007 wrote: »

I was listening to BBC Radio 4 this morning and there was some boffin on analysing the statistics on deaths from Covid-19. I didn’t hear the beginning so I don’t know who he was or what his official status is.
His job, apparently, is to analyse the ‘normal’ rates and causes of death in the UK. They also factor in the occurrence of major health issues for different age ranges. This enables them to predict for any age cohort with various health conditions, how many of those people will likely die in a given period, say a year.
When they had sufficient data from deaths due to Covid, they found that so far it mapped almost exactly what they would have predicted for that cohort of people, but over a slightly longer period of time.
He made a prediction that at the end of the year the overall number of deaths from all causes will be the same as normal. What will be slightly different is the distribution timewise of the occurrence of the deaths.
I think the point he was making is that whatever the death toll is, due to Covid, it will not increase the overall number of deaths which would have occurred anyway.

Imagine next years post mortem on the 2020 worldwide Covid19 crisis if what this man says turns out to be true. How is Sweden getting on?

Lavinia

all about the mane wrote: »

they can. but a mask isn't going to make any difference

in your opinion

Bob24

caveat emptor wrote: »

https://twitter.com/patphelan/status/1244010733714788352?s=19
Don't know how much time I spent arguing with people on here. I was called a lunatic. Follow the guidelines. FFS . That's the thing about physics and maths. Doesn't matter who says the sun goes around us. It doesn't.

The Korean professor’s interview a few pages back agrees with what a few of us have been saying. Western governments and the WHO are saying mask shouldn’t be worn by the general public because they know they are in short supply and thus should be reserved for medical staff. It actually makes sense as medical staff is very exposed and if they become ill and can’t work it will exacerbate the over saturation of or health systems.

But at the end of the day their wording is bending the truth. The reality isn’t that masks are useless for the general public, but rather that with the limited supply we have we should reserve them for the most critical uses. So essentially as a policy it makes sense to reserve masks for medical staff, but the way Western government and the WHO word that policy it is just a manner for our governments to sugarcoat their lack of planning and our inability in the west to provide masks in sufficient quantities (as opposed to many Asian countries).

cloudatlas

Lavinia wrote: »

a week after my last going out i am okay so i suppose i can safely say that i am not.


however people can be positive and have no symptoms and walk around spreading it without even knowing it

If you were infected you’d be at risk for contracting it for at least 11.5. That’s my understanding.

careless sherpa

Roger_007 wrote: »

I was listening to BBC Radio 4 this morning and there was some boffin on analysing the statistics on deaths from Covid-19. I didn’t hear the beginning so I don’t know who he was or what his official status is.
His job, apparently, is to analyse the ‘normal’ rates and causes of death in the UK. They also factor in the occurrence of major health issues for different age ranges. This enables them to predict for any age cohort with various health conditions, how many of those people will likely die in a given period, say a year.
When they had sufficient data from deaths due to Covid, they found that so far it mapped almost exactly what they would have predicted for that cohort of people, but over a slightly longer period of time.
He made a prediction that at the end of the year the overall number of deaths from all causes will be the same as normal. What will be slightly different is the distribution timewise of the occurrence of the deaths.
I think the point he was making is that whatever the death toll is, due to Covid, it will not increase the overall number of deaths which would have occurred anyway.

Sounds like someone wheeled out to excuse early inaction. Nothing to see here folks

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Because it is two topline figures ignoring how those figures were achieved. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.


Germany has a population of 83million. They can leverage that to get massive discounts on material, equipment, and building projects. They do not pay full price for their goods, we pay much more (per item) than they do


So their €5,300 in spending would, proportionally, cost us a lot more.

Oh and the biggest procurement issue.


We are a small(ish), lightly populated, and low density island on the far flung reaches of major transport networks. Everything costs more

caveat emptor

s1ippy wrote: »

Great time to have this thought, 3:30am

What happens to all the nuclear reactors if there's nobody around to look after them?

The all have fail safes that kick in and shut down. I'd hope.

paul71

Deleted User wrote: »

Because it is two topline figures ignoring how those figures were achieved. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.


Germany has a population of 83million. They can leverage that to get massive discounts on material, equipment, and building projects. They do not pay full price for their goods, we pay much more (per item) than they do


So their €5,300 in spending would, proportionally, cost us a lot more.

Ok I will do your research for you shall I,

Ireland 5528
Denmark 5205
Belgium 4840
Austria 5227
Canada 4753
Germary 5551
UK 4192
Isreal 2822
Iceland 4376
Swithzerland 7919
Italy 3391
Spain 3248
Finland 4033

Yeap It appears we drastically underfund our health service :rolleyes:

Roger_007

Gynoid wrote: »

I am going to leave a small compartment in my mind open for the possibility that might be true.
But for now, with the images and records from ICUs in Spain, Italy, NYC, etc there is definitely something else going on. Something not normal. And those ICUs report it also includes younger people, say 30 to 50, being very very seriously ill. Some say 40% of very sick are not elderly. Maybe the younger dont get critically sick as often, but something very disturbing is going on.

The guy I was listening has analysed the actual data which he has access to. The rest of us are just listening to anecdotal evidence and jumping to conclusions. The are many deaths in every age group every year. Obviously most deaths occur in older age groups but younger people die also.

voluntary

caveat emptor wrote: »

The all have fail safes that kick in and shut down. I'd hope.

They all do and some of them probably work correctly.

jackboy

all about the mane wrote: »

No, they are not

Why are you spreading these untruths. They clearly significantly reduce the risk of spreading and contraction of the virus.

jackboy

jackboy wrote: »

In other words, they are effective.

No, they are not. They are effective in clinical setting at preventing aerosol particles.


Morons touching their masks, mouth, nose, surfaces etc will mean masks are less then useless. They become dangerous in giving said morons a false sense of security.

Padre_Pio

jackboy wrote: »

In other words, they are effective.

Nah, people are idiots.

You see them going around with gloves on, in reality they should be changed every time you touch something, not a hope is that happening.

Instead people get a false sense of security and take risks.

Akrasia

Roger_007 wrote: »

I was listening to BBC Radio 4 this morning and there was some boffin on analysing the statistics on deaths from Covid-19. I didn’t hear the beginning so I don’t know who he was or what his official status is.
His job, apparently, is to analyse the ‘normal’ rates and causes of death in the UK. They also factor in the occurrence of major health issues for different age ranges. This enables them to predict for any age cohort with various health conditions, how many of those people will likely die in a given period, say a year.
When they had sufficient data from deaths due to Covid, they found that so far it mapped almost exactly what they would have predicted for that cohort of people, but over a slightly longer
He made a prediction that at the end of the year the overall number of deaths from all causes will be the same as normal. What will be slightly different is the distribution timewise of the occurrence of the deaths.

the overall death rate from all causes is 100% and all of medicine is aimed at shifting the distribution time wise

My mother is not in great health ‘She has crohns disease amongst other things), she could die tomorrow, or she could live 20 more years, both she and I would prefer to shift her death time wise, neither of us think she will live forever

And it is ludicrous to suggest that collapsing the health system wouldn’t lead to extra death this year. Heart attack or strokes are not always fatal if they are treated on time, 80-90% survive with emergency treatment, not gonna get that care if the hospital is no longer functioning because it’s overloaded with respiratory disease

Same goes for all other health conditions, mortality will increase for treatable illnesses if the health service cannot provide those treatments because it’s overwhelmed

all about the mane

Lavinia wrote: »

in your opinion

Not just my opinion.

• If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection.
• Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
• Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
• If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.

all about the mane

jackboy wrote: »

Why are you spreading these untruths. They clearly significantly reduce the risk of spreading and contraction of the virus.

Link?

all about the mane

Deleted User wrote: »

No, they are not. They are effective in clinical setting at preventing aerosol particles.


Morons touching their masks, mouth, nose, surfaces etc will mean masks are less then useless. They become dangerous in giving said morons a false sense of security.

Exactly. It is proven that people touch their face more with a mask on. not less.

paul71

paul71 wrote: »

Ok I will do your research for you shall I,

Ireland 5528
Denmark 5205
Belgium 4840
Austria 5227
Canada 4753
Germary 5551
UK 4192
Isreal 2822
Iceland 4376
Swithzerland 7919
Italy 3391
Spain 3248
Finland 4033

Yeap It appears we drastically underfund our health service :rolleyes:

It's not my research. You put forward the proposal, all research responsibility is yours. You defend the challenge.


And, as I said, our numbers would not stack up against countries of similar sizes (and make your argument more effective)


You're welcome, btw

Rob A. Bank

paul71 wrote: »

Ok I will do your research for you shall I,

Ireland 5528
Denmark 5205
Belgium 4840
Austria 5227
Canada 4753
Germary 5551
UK 4192
Isreal 2822
Iceland 4376
Swithzerland 7919
Italy 3391
Spain 3248
Finland 4033

Yeap It appears we drastically underfund our health service :rolleyes:

Why not quote the percentage of GDP we spend on our health services ?

iwillyeah1234

Hopkins : 666,211 cases. Over 30,000 deaths.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

Padre_Pio

all about the mane wrote: »

Not just my opinion.

• If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection.
• Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
• Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
• If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.

Wash your hands before putting it on.
Wash your hands after disposing of it.

Change your mask regularly.
Never touch it, otherwise you need to change it.

People aren't doing this.

caveat emptor

Deleted User wrote: »

At the very start, I kind of believed the people who said they don't stop it, till I realised they were talking about how they don't stop you getting it as much as it stops you spreading it. A very self-centered approach to placing a value on a mask's helpfulness.

Vietnam has on the spot fines now for not wearing one and the traffic police are checking for no masks now more than anything else. It's also one of the most successful countries in dealing with all of this because of the extreme measures they're taking, so I think every country should be following the more successful ones' leads even if it's a bit socially awkward.

As I've said before, if I were to sneeze in your direction, you'd wish I had a mask on to stop the phlegm.

No need to reinvent the wheel !00% agree. We don't have our own version of the internet. This one works.

jackboy

all about the mane wrote: »

Link?

You will have to do your own research. I won’t ask you for a link proving that masks give no protection against contracting the virus.

BanditLuke

jackboy wrote: »

If there was a plentiful supply of masks available the HSE would be recommending the public to always wear them outside the home. Don’t believe the lies that they are not effective.

Of course they are effective. In a few weeks time IF we have enough to go around the HSE will be advising on wearing them and the Gardai enforcing the wearing of them any time you leave your residence. It's about controling the narrative and not creating panic at the moment.

fits

iwillyeah1234 wrote: »

Hopkins : 666,211 cases. Over 30,000 deaths.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

Oh my that is rocketing. It will be a million by Tuesday at that rate.

all about the mane

BanditLuke wrote: »

Of course they are effective. In a few weeks time IF we have enough to go around the HSE will be advising on wearing them and the Gardai enforcing the wearing of them any time you leave your residence. It's about controling the narrative and not creating panic at the moment.

No they won't

a_squirrelman

Any kind of mask or face covering (even a scarf) is mandatory in Czechia and Slovakia. The point being that anyone might have the virus and any kind of cover might hinder the spread if you are going to the shops or whatever.

voluntary

Everyone should wear masks today to avoid spreading this thing. There's no masks available though. Globally. So no responsible organization will recommend public to wear them. Simple.

Rob A. Bank

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Why not quote the percentage of GDP we spend on our health services ?

Because people like to cherry pick figures, which suit their arguments, rather than put forward a balanced and well investigated argument.



That would take effort and may not agree with their mindset.


Now, do I think our health service is underfunded? yes
Do I think that most of that underfunding is caused by administrative black holes? yes


Is all of my opinion from anecdotal evidence? Very much yes, but at least I can see/admit this.


Do I think that the HSE needs a proper audit, with appropriate powers of investigation, with a guaranteed action based on results? Yes


Will this ever happen? No, seen as political suicide.

Lavinia

all about the mane wrote: »

Not just my opinion.

• If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection.
• Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
• Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
• If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.

I can read the WHO website,



but if you - as some know-it-all here - are basing your ''opinion'' on premises that all people are morons (their words not mine) then we obviously have nothing to talk about


in other words - masks are effective if handled properly

paul71

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not my research. You put forward the proposal, all research responsibility is yours. You defend the challenge.


And, as I said, our numbers would not stack up against countries of similar sizes (and make your argument more effective)


You're welcome, btw

They do stack up to countries of similar, in fact they exceed them, seriously did you not read what you quoted?

caveat emptor

Deleted User wrote: »

No, they are not. They are effective in clinical setting at preventing aerosol particles.


Morons touching their masks, mouth, nose, surfaces etc will mean masks are less then useless. They become dangerous in giving said morons a false sense of security.

spinbot