CoVid19 Part XI - 2,615 in ROI (46 deaths) 410 in NI (21 deaths)(29/03)*OP upd 28/03*

joe_99

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Why not quote the percentage of GDP we spend on our health services ?

Our GDP is heavily inflated by multi nationals and is not a true value of the wealth of the country.

Hobgoblin11

caveat emptor wrote: »

You calm down.

I'm calm

all about the mane

kaymin wrote: »

Why do nurses and doctors use them if the benefits are negligible. And don't respond with how complicated they are to use properly. Any halfwit can follow a few simple procedures like avoiding touching mask / face and washing hands.

Because they are in direct close contact with covid19 patients. And they only wear them when they are. And its not to do with 'following simple instructions'. Its to do with changing behaviours. that is far more difficult than people realise.

NegativeCreep

Akrasia wrote: »

Masks are useless at protecting yourself from the virus in a community setting, they can help prevent it from spreading if sick people wear them but it’s about as effective as coughing or sneezing onto your elbow instead of directly into the air

Covering your face with a scarf or wearing a mask will protect others from you, but not you from them.

Surgeons wear masks to protect their patients from Their own germs
In Asia it is considered very rude to cough in public without a mask on. The masks are to keep sick people from spreading their disease to others


When dealing with very infectious diseases it’s the aseptic technique as well as more specialized PPE that helps prevent infection

How do you know if someone has mild symptoms or not? Someone could be asymptomatic and cough or sneeze (for any reason) and spread it to someone. We’re constantly hearing about asymptomatic spreaders. Surely it’s better to wear a mask than go out bare faced?

MarkY91

Why are we buying PPE from China...shouldn't they be giving PPE to every country on Earth to apologise for unleashing this virus upon the planet?

Ficheall

all about the mane wrote: »

I work in a job that requires theuse of masks for pat of my role. I have years of training.

Like your man in Pulp Fiction?

Dunno if I'd trust his data analysis abilities,tbph.

Soulsun

MarkY91 wrote: »

Why are we buying PPE from China...shouldn't they be giving PPE to every country on Earth to apologise for unleashing this virus upon the planet?

Fair point

Akrasia

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Wash your hands before putting it on.
Wash your hands after disposing of it.

Change your mask regularly.
Never touch it, otherwise you need to change it.

People aren't doing this.

You don’t need to throw away a mask because you touched it. You need to wash your hands

Look, in infection control there are two things, regular hand washing, and creating barriers. With barriers there are a dirty side, and a clean side. Which side is which is kind of irrelevant, but what you really want to do is keep the two sides isolated from each other. Anything that is in contact with the dirty side needs to be washed/sanitized before it can contact the clean side

Things on the clean side can touch each other, and things on the dirty side can touch each other, just keep them apart

Touching the outside of the mask with your hands does not break the mask, but it could transfer contaminated particles to your hands which could then contaminate other surfaces

Marsden35

I used to do a lot of body work repairs on my cars (spray painting etc) so I have top end masks that seal onto your face and sealed goggles, as well as disposable hazmat type suits.

Locked and loaded for the apocalypse. Corona will not penetrate me.

kingshankly

MarkY91 wrote: »

Why are we buying PPE from China...shouldn't they be giving PPE to every country on Earth to apologise for unleashing this virus upon the planet?

Cheque will bounce anyway 😂

jesus_thats_gre

MarkY91 wrote: »

Why are we buying PPE from China...shouldn't they be giving PPE to every country on Earth to apologise for unleashing this virus upon the planet?

Oh yeah, lets insist on that now.

woohoo!!!

Clarifies things. And yes we should ignore Paddy Cosgraves offer.
https://twitter.com/Care2much18/status/1243963614039597057?s=19

kaymin

all about the mane wrote: »

Because they are in direct close contact with covid19 patients. And they only wear them when they are. And its not to do with 'following simple instructions'. Its to do with changing behaviours. that is far more difficult than people realise.

Difficult for you perhaps given your lack of critical thinking. We don't know who has covid but the fact is more and more have it as each day goes by. If it benefits nurses / doctors to wear one then it benefits Joe Public for the same reason.

Akrasia

NegativeCreep wrote: »

How do you know if someone has mild symptoms or not? Someone could be asymptomatic and cough or sneeze (for any reason) and spread it to someone. We’re constantly hearing about asymptomatic spreaders. Surely it’s better to wear a mask than go out bare faced?

The people who already don’t cough or sneeze into their elbow won’t wear a mask

There is a shortage of masks, people can get mostly the same effect by covering their face with a scarf

Harry Palmr

Ficheall wrote: »

The "boffin" you were listening to, whom you can't name has access to the "actual data".
This sounds pretty damn anecdotal to me.

Peter Openshaw, Professor of Experimental Medicine at Imperial College was the boffin.

YFlyer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Wards have several rooms...

Should isolate wings.

NetChat101

YFlyer wrote: »

You said covid patients and regular patients are on same ward.

Think it's an isolation room within a general ward.

YFlyer

MarkY91 wrote: »

Why are we buying PPE from China...shouldn't they be giving PPE to every country on Earth to apologise for unleashing this virus upon the planet?

Did the US give out free supplies for the Spanish Flu?

Roger_007

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Peter Openshaw, Professor of Experimental Medicine at Imperial College was the boffin.

Thank you, I didn’t hear him being introduced. I think what he had to say was interesting but some would regard it as somehow saying that there is no problem. I don’t think that’s the case.

Hobgoblin11

US President Donald Trump has said quarantining New York "will not be necessary", after the state's governor said doing so would be "preposterous"

And this is why what we see in The USA will trump everywhere else

Lavinia

YFlyer wrote: »

Should isolate wings.

taking that about 500 people infected in ireland are health care workers it does not seem this management has been done properly

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

No I've said that the "instructions" there did not state to be clean shaven. Would members of the general public know that even a day or two worth of stubble makes them useless?

I've a close shaved beard and I can get full seal in a respirator. And yes I do know how to check this.

Oh and one quick question, for all.


Why are healthcare workers getting such high rates of infection if the masks were effective protection, for the wearer?

Oh FFS. The lack of clue around here can be seriously bloody painful at times.

I can't believe this has to be explained... Healthcare workers are significantly more exposed than anybody else to the sick and pathogens from the sick and usually in close quarters in enclosed spaces for long periods of time. More exposure over time equals more risk over time. And yet they wear masks because they know and y'know actual scientific research has proven that masks and other equipment and procedures massively reduce that already significantly higher risk for medical staff.

Simpler again? Why do more soldiers on the battlefield get shot compared to civilians at home? There are more bullets zinging about on the battlefield.

all about the mane wrote: »

I made the point earlier that is you are covid19 positive it helps to wear a mask. For everyone else, not for you.

And again you're completely ignoring the WHO recommendation that those looking after the sick should wear a mask. If it didn't lower risk of transmission to the healthy why? There is a metric shit tonne of data that proves masks reduce transmission rates in both directions.

Though oddly enough the more complex respirators that you often see medical professionals in full hazmat mode don't. They protect the wearer but exhaled air is unfiltered..

Wibbs

YFlyer wrote: »

Did the US give out free supplies for the Spanish Flu?

They should have, or at cost anyway.

Ficheall

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Peter Openshaw, Professor of Experimental Medicine at Imperial College was the boffin.

Thanks. Any link to the clip in question? None of the stuff I can see from your man seems to be dismissing it as making no real difference to the overall mortality for the year..

PowerToWait

all about the mane wrote: »

I have to wear a mask as part of my job. I know the upsides and downsides of wearing them. Their usefulness is negligible in a situation like this.
What are you talking about every official in every clip. That is outright bullsh1t

You wear a dust mask. You know nothing about viruses, their transmission, epidemiology, maths or pandemics.

Shouting “bull****” is the height of your capabilities.

Blueshoe

Marsden35 wrote: »

I used to do a lot of body work repairs on my cars (spray painting etc) so I have top end masks that seal onto your face and sealed goggles, as well as disposable hazmat type suits.

Locked and loaded for the apocalypse. Corona will not penetrate me.

I have a gun.
Legally licenced of course

walshb

Can anyone shed light on flights..

Are there still general flights in and out if Ireland carrying people..

Non essential/emergency type flights?

BluePlanet

MarkY91 wrote: »

Why are we buying PPE from China...shouldn't they be giving PPE to every country on Earth to apologise for unleashing this virus upon the planet?

Insurance companies are calling it an 'act of God' so maybe we should blame the churches?

Hobgoblin11

Blueshoe wrote: »

I have a gun.
Legally licenced of course

do you have bullets?

NegativeCreep

Akrasia wrote: »

The people who already don’t cough or sneeze into their elbow won’t wear a mask

There is a shortage of masks, people can get mostly the same effect by covering their face with a scarf

But to say that masks are useless is wrong. It doesn’t matter that there’s a shortage of masks. Some people already have masks and should be wearing them.

Anita Blow

I can't speak for the smaller hospitals which may only have a couple of suspected cases, but regarding the bigger hospitals it is absolutely incorrect to say COVID patients are being kept on the same wards as non-COVID patients. Mild cases are cohorted on 6-bedded wards, similar to what we do for Norovirus and Influenza outbreaks. The remainder are kept in single-rooms on dedicated wards.

Hobgoblin11

walshb wrote: »

Can anyone shed light on flights..

Are there still general flights in and out if Ireland carrying people..

Non essential/emergency type flights?

mainly for repatriation of our finest

walshb

NCT suspended last night?

all about the mane

PowerToWait wrote: »

You wear a dust mask. You know nothing about viruses, their transmission, epidemiology, maths or pandemics.

Shouting “bull****” is the height of your capabilities.

I do not wear a dust mask. How did you come up with that one?

OscarMIlde

Hobgoblin11 wrote: »

I heard today Germany are doing 500k tests a week , wtf are we like !

Major shortage of Qiagen RNA extraction kits. Funnily enough Qiagen are a German company. Germany are suiting themselves during this pandemic.

cnocbui

Akrasia wrote: »

Masks are useless at protecting yourself from the virus in a community setting, they can help prevent it from spreading if sick people wear them but it’s about as effective as coughing or sneezing onto your elbow instead of directly into the air

Covering your face with a scarf or wearing a mask will protect others from you, but not you from them.

Surgeons wear masks to protect their patients from Their own germs
In Asia it is considered very rude to cough in public without a mask on. The masks are to keep sick people from spreading their disease to others


When dealing with very infectious diseases it’s the aseptic technique as well as more specialized PPE that helps prevent infection

Completely untrue:

Always wearing a mask when going out was associated with a 70% reduction in risk compared with never wearing a mask. Wearing a mask intermittently was associated with a smaller yet significant reduction in risk.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3322931/

Can face masks offer protection against SARS?

According to research on the SARS epidemic, face masks were the most consistently effective intervention for reducing the contraction and spread of SARS. In a Cochrane Review on the subject, six out of seven studies showed that face masks (surgical and N95) offered significant protection against SARS. Hand washing was also very effective, supported by four out of seven studies in a multivariate analysis.

https://medium.com/better-humans/whats-the-evidence-on-face-masks-5f3c27a18cc

Roger_007

walshb wrote: »

NCT suspended last night?

They were only doing half tests anyway.

Lavinia

walshb wrote: »

NCT suspended last night?

my car service is coming up in april, i was just wondering how am i suppose to do that, and guess the answer can only be that i will not do it..

caveat emptor

all about the mane wrote: »

the graph doesn't highlight anything in relation to mask wearing. that is just a giant leap being made by some on here.

I work in a job that requires theuse of masks for pat of my role. I have years of training. i can't link to that

How many years training do you have in a pandemic? zero like everyone here. With exception of epidemiologists who study and prepare for this once in. a century event. They say masks help. I'm with them.

Should be "text us on 51551 wash your hands. Don't touch your face." Job done.

Hobgoblin11

OscarMIlde wrote: »

Major shortage of Qiagen RNA extraction kits. Funnily enough Qiagen are a German company. Germany are suiting themselves during this pandemic.

in fairness to The Germans, they always did suit themselves

Wibbs

Anita Blow wrote: »

I can't speak for the smaller hospitals which may only have a couple of suspected cases, but regarding the bigger hospitals it is absolutely incorrect to say COVID patients are being kept on the same wards as non-COVID patients. Mild cases are cohorted on 6-bedded wards, similar to what we do for Norovirus and Influenza outbreaks. The remainder are kept in single-rooms on dedicated wards.

Again that someone, you in this case AB, have to have to explain the glaringly bloody obvious increases my conviction that ignorance is an equally worrying virus and it's endemic throughout the community. Stupidity appears to be highly contagious too. Education seems to be only a partially effective vaccine.

Level 42

Lavinia wrote: »

my car service is coming up in april, i was just wondering how am i suppose to do that, and guess the answer can only be that i will not do it..

its closed theres no test for you -you can still bring it down if you want and sit in it outside a closed nct office

Wibbs

cnocbui wrote: »

Completely untrue:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3322931/

https://medium.com/better-humans/whats-the-evidence-on-face-masks-5f3c27a18cc

Thank you. Though it does go to show how official information can be tweaked enough away from the facts and most will believe it. In this case the HSE and other health agencies doing so to stop muppets stockpiling and protecting the very real need to have enough reserves of PPE for front line health workers.

paul71

paul71 wrote: »

They do stack up to countries of similar, in fact they exceed them, seriously did you not read what you quoted?

We're saying the same thing... I'm saying that our numbers do not stack up against similar countries (we spend more)


Then the question turns to why...


Higher salaries?
Higher equipment costs?
Higher medicine cost?
Higher utilities?
Higher insurance?


Or just waste?


To say that we are not underfunding would need a full investigation of above (and others) and can only be called so if the expenditure is not justified.


If the costs are justified and we are not giving enough to cover these, or improve services. Then we are still underfunding, based on required money.


If we remove all waste expense, would we still be funding to a correct level? I would think no, as we are horridly short on capital projects and physical infrastructure, which is causing a lot of the waste expense.

iwillyeah1234

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Thank you. Though it does go to show how official information can be tweaked enough away from the facts and most will believe it. In this case the HSE and other health agencies doing so to stop muppets stockpiling and protecting the very real need to have enough reserves of PPE for front line health workers.

Yes because it is MUCH more effective in that setting. Us staying at home is far far more effective than people heading out, with masks.
Give everyone masks and they WILL head out more often and, mask or no, will spread the disease.

all about the mane

https://time.com/5794729/coronavirus-face-masks/

greenfield21

OscarMIlde wrote: »

Major shortage of Qiagen RNA extraction kits. Funnily enough Qiagen are a German company. Germany are suiting themselves during this pandemic.

Do you have a source for that and who does majority of Germany's testing? Really does show the need for homegrown health companies all the Bullsh*t about EU based were in this together, more like everyone for themselves. Even the pharma companies based here have been so quiet, you'd think we would see some good will.

population

Deleted User wrote: »

That is your personal choice. Many like beards and stubble, I've seen people wearing masks over facial hair, makes them useless.

My sister is nursing in a US hospital and everyone with a beard has been told to shave in order for the masks to work effectively.

YFlyer

BluePlanet wrote: »

Insurance companies are calling it an 'act of God' so maybe we should blame the churches?

I hope that argument is taken to court if not sorted out beforehand. If is well known that it is not advisable to eat bats or pangolin.