CoVid19 Part XI - 2,615 in ROI (46 deaths) 410 in NI (21 deaths)(29/03)*OP upd 28/03*

Sam Russell

Tomrota wrote: »

It’s an argument for Universal Basic Income and the 4 day workweek. The way our current society works is disgusting. Nobody has time for anyone or anything.

I remember hearing a documentary about the new town, Milton Keynes, built in the 1960s about 50 miles north of London.

One of the interesting items was that it was decided that every house had to have enough space for a yacht. Now it was not that they expected that every one would have a yacht (Milton Keynes is a long way from the ocean), it was that everyone needed space for a hobby and the space for a yacht would be enough for most hobbies.

Now the reasoning behind this requirement was that the planners reckoned that by the year 2000, most people would have so much leisure time because of the automation that was approaching fast (1960s remember), the work week would shrink to perhaps 3 days a week.

It struck me that futurologists rarely see into the future with any actual success.

Maybe we are at a watershed where we can see the futility of the constant pursuit of ever growing GDP, the transfer of wealth to fewer and fewer billionaires, with more and more debt assumed by sovereign governments to keep the show on the road, while product is shipped from one side of the world to the other.

Maybe it is the time to reset what our aims in life should be.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes because it is MUCH more effective in that setting. Us staying at home is far far more effective than people heading out, with masks.
Give everyone masks and they WILL head out more often and, mask or no, will spread the disease.

Christ, you're really an either or position taker. So now when it's finally getting through that masks do mitigate transmission, you come up with the whataboutery of "oh more people will go out because of them". How about staying the hell at home, but when someone needs to go out for food or medical reasons they wear masks to reduce risks for all when they do so?

kaymin

all about the mane wrote: »

https://time.com/5794729/coronavirus-face-masks/

"They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!"

Says it all really.

BluePlanet

YFlyer wrote: »

I hope that argument is taken to court if not sorted out beforehand. If is well known that it is not advisable to eat bats or pangolin.

Why? Is it because it's not part of western diets?

iwillyeah1234

iwillyeah1234 wrote: »

Things are so fast moving - that graph is out of date - Hopkins is reporting 10,023 deaths in Italy now.

blackcard

population wrote: »

My sister is nursing in a US hospital and everyone with a beard has been told to shave in order for the masks to work effectively.

Does she mind doing this?

Klonker

Of course masks help, they're not 100%, not even close but they'll lower the chances of you catching thr virus or spreading it.

Saying that, I haven't even looked to buy any, I'd love if the country had enough for everyone to use but we don't. They should be prioritised for workers in healthcare, shops, pharmacies etc., not for people to go out and walk their dog.

I'd like to see the government put in place some production facilities within Ireland for such products, I'm not sure if they've looked to do so yet, I know some distillers are helping HSE with sanitiser production.

Klonker

Of course masks help, they're not 100%, not even close but they'll lower the chances of you catching thr virus or spreading it.

Saying that, I haven't even looked to buy any, I'd love if the country had enough for everyone to use but we don't. They should be prioritised for workers in healthcare, shops, pharmacies etc., not for people to go out and walk their dog.

I'd like to see the government put in place some production facilities within Ireland for such products, I'm not sure if they've looked to do so yet, I know some distillers are helping HSE with sanitiser production.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

I've a close shaved beard and I can get full seal in a respirator. And yes I do know how to check this.

Oh FFS. The lack of clue around here can be seriously bloody painful at times.

I can't believe this has to be explained... Healthcare workers are significantly more exposed than anybody else to the sick and pathogens from the sick and usually in close quarters in enclosed spaces for long periods of time. More exposure over time equals more risk over time. And yet they wear masks because they know and y'know actual scientific research has proven that masks and other equipment and procedures massively reduce that already significantly higher risk for medical staff.

You do, but do you think that John from the bar is going to know?


And yes I know that they are far more likely to get infected, due to proximity, but that is exactly why the general public should not be given false security around PPE making them fully protected.


How hard has it been to get people to stop going to pubs, parks, beaches, insert any group setting?
Now how hard will it be to stop people going with everyone thinking that their paper mask is protection?
People were out and about yesterday in simple paper dust masks FFS.


The recommendation to not wear masks and to simply stay home is the correct advice.

Bob24

Wibbs wrote: »

Thank you. Though it does go to show how official information can be tweaked enough away from the facts and most will believe it. In this case the HSE and other health agencies doing so to stop muppets stockpiling and protecting the very real need to have enough reserves of PPE for front line health workers.

And what’s getting almost comical is that the few posters who are on a mission to explain how useless masks are on this thread are ignoring the facts, medical opinions and studies posted here; but at the same time they haven’t posted a single study demonstrating that masks are not useful for the general public.

Even the WHO advice which they refer to falls short of saying masks are not providing protection for the general public. The WHO indeed says “If you are not ill or looking after someone who is ill then you are wasting a mask”, but their next sentence is “There is a world-wide shortage of masks, so WHO urges people to use masks wisely”. So this is a very political wording which while saying the general public shouldn’t wear masks is careful not to state that masks are not providing protection for the public; and instead outlines the shortage as a reason to use them wisely.

Lavinia

Deleted User wrote: »

The recommendation to not wear masks and to simply stay home is the correct advice.

you can apply your recommendation to yourself, feel free to do so!


just stay home and don't go out


thank you

iwillyeah1234

Just saw a report on the BBC from Seoul airport in South Korea. Literally EVERYONE including the BBC reporter were wearing masks.

Hobgoblin11

blackcard wrote: »

Does she mind doing this?

red card !

Wibbs

all about the mane wrote: »

https://time.com/5794729/coronavirus-face-masks/

And again... The CDC also does not recommend N95 respirators—the tight-fitting masks designed to filter out 95% of particles from the air that you breathe—for use, except for health care workers. Doctors and health experts keep spreading the word. “Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS!” tweeted Dr. Jerome Adams, the U.S. Surgeon General, on Feb. 29. “They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!”

The parts in bold are what is driving the parts that aren't. It's amazing to me that you can't see this. No wonder propaganda works on so many. Even when the reality is in plain sight so many will wilfully refuse to acknowledge it. Though I suspect one factor in play is that people don't have face masks so are hellbent in poo pooing them as a risk mitigation because of that.

Ger Roe

walshb wrote: »

NCT suspended last night?

Yes.. some very quick backtracking overnight. Up until yesterday evening the NCT site said they would resume today, as an approved essential service. It seems Shane Ross had other thoughts and I am glad he did.

No sign of that post now... not even in the news headlines list on their site.
Selective rewrite of history? The correct timeline of communications with the public should be maintained for the record otherwise it leads to mistrust.

The fact that it was such a quick U-turn doesn't inspire confidence in the initial decision making process.

Was the initial announcement of increased measures on Friday night deliberately vague about 'essential services' so that employers could get on and argue their specific economic case and so influence the list that then was published on Saturday evening?

Cart before horse and tail wagging dog?

Wibbs

Ger Roe wrote: »

The fact that it was such a quick U-turn doesn't inspire confidence in the initial decision making process.

I strongly suspect the NCTS company and the RSA were digging in their heels about it being a vital service, if nothing else to protect their income(like the construction companies), but the government stepped in and told them to shut down.

Klonker

Idiot journalist after asking HSE best and worst case deaths in Ireland ffs, how does he expect them to answer that? First off its pure guess and second its pure scaremongering and you'd think a journalist would be more responsible.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Christ, you're really an either or position taker. So now when it's finally getting through that masks do mitigate transmission, you come up with the whataboutery of "oh more people will go out because of them". How about staying the hell at home, but when someone needs to go out for food or medical reasons they wear masks to reduce risks for all when they do so?

I have said that they are not effective outside of facilities where they can be easily swapped out safely. Where people are actually trained to use them correctly and where the correct masks are being used.


Giving people an excuse to leave the house, to take stupid unnecessary trips will negate any effects the masks have.


I have used them in lab settings, I know they work but also they have very obvious drawbacks/weaknesses.

Wibbs

Klonker wrote: »

you'd think a journalist would be more responsible.

God K, I love your optimism.

Hobgoblin11

Millions and millions of PPE winging their way to us all as we speak!

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Is there any graph for Ireland?

MarkY91

YFlyer wrote: »

Did the US give out free supplies for the Spanish Flu?

That was 100 years ago. Different times.

frillyleaf

iwillyeah1234 wrote: »

Just saw a report on the BBC from Seoul airport in South Korea. Literally EVERYONE including the BBC reporter were wearing masks.

Yes they all wear them there as it reduces spread if you have, it protects others. We don’t have enough here so frontline staff need them. It’s better for us to just stay at home !

blackcard

iwillyeah1234 wrote: »

Just saw a report on the BBC from Seoul airport in South Korea. Literally EVERYONE including the BBC reporter were wearing masks.

I just saw a report on a reporter flying into China. Everyone wearing masks, flight attendants and customs wearing full personal protective equipment. Temperatures tested on a number of occasions. Passengers brought to a sealed hotel and tested for Covid-19. Only allowed to carry on their journey after negative tests.
Is this what is ahead of us?⁰

RugbyLad11

YFlyer wrote: »

Did the US give out free supplies for the Spanish Flu?

It's unknown where the Spanish flu first started https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

Besides that was a different time back then, it occurred during WW1

shocksy

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1244212010163802112?s=19

Harry Palmr

Hobgoblin11 wrote: »

Millions and millions of PPE winging their way to us all as we speak!

Lets hope it works

https://twitter.com/adrianzenz/status/1243992460839321600

cnocbui

Wibbs wrote: »

Thank you. Though it does go to show how official information can be tweaked enough away from the facts and most will believe it. In this case the HSE and other health agencies doing so to stop muppets stockpiling and protecting the very real need to have enough reserves of PPE for front line health workers.

Yes, their motive for telling porkies is sound, however, it's also not good to be pushing that line, when they know better, which might stop people like me who happen to have a cartridge respirator mask to hand and others, from protecting themselves, which of course would not affect available supply.

A large detriment to the supply of masks in the west appears to be a global effort by the Chinese government, operating through fronts, to buy up PPE supplies on an industrial scale and ship them back to China. They were doing this back in January and I have suspicions that in the future, when authorities and journalists have the time to through export records, they will find this happened on a prodigious scale: https://www.smh.com.au/national/second-developer-flies-82-tonnes-of-medical-supplies-to-china-20200326-p54e8n.html



And why is a company in Limerick sending presumably millions of masks a week to China, the middle east and elsewhere, while a plane has been sent to China to bring back possibly even the same product, though I suspect they would keep the good stuff and be sending us seconds, at a price.

https://www.irema.com/products/face-masks/respirator-face-masks-flat-fold/

citysights

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Lets hope it works

https://twitter.com/adrianzenz/status/1243992460839321600

That’s dreadful.

Wombatman

Roger_007 wrote: »

I was listening to BBC Radio 4 this morning and there was some boffin on analysing the statistics on deaths from Covid-19. I didn’t hear the beginning so I don’t know who he was or what his official status is.
His job, apparently, is to analyse the ‘normal’ rates and causes of death in the UK. They also factor in the occurrence of major health issues for different age ranges. This enables them to predict for any age cohort with various health conditions, how many of those people will likely die in a given period, say a year.
When they had sufficient data from deaths due to Covid, they found that so far it mapped almost exactly what they would have predicted for that cohort of people, but over a slightly longer period of time.
He made a prediction that at the end of the year the overall number of deaths from all causes will be the same as normal. What will be slightly different is the distribution timewise of the occurrence of the deaths.
I think the point he was making is that whatever the death toll is, due to Covid, it will not increase the overall number of deaths which would have occurred anyway.

My well turn out to be true. However it needs to be acknowledged that the playing field is completely different. Massive short term social re-engineering and investment to increase NHS capacity was not there in the previous year.

Sweden might be in a better position to compare like with like.

walshb

Wibbs wrote: »

I strongly suspect the NCTS company and the RSA were digging in their heels about it being a vital service, if nothing else to protect their income(like the construction companies), but the government stepped in and told them to shut down.

But surely there are legal and insurance areas that could deem NCT testing very essential?

It’s an offence to be driving a car without a valid NCT certificate..

wellwhynot

HSE said we have 2100 acute beds and 167 critical beds.

I assume critical is ICU? Can anyone confirm? If so, that number is tiny. We were told a higher number a few weeks ago.

Bob24

blackcard wrote: »

Is this what is ahead of us?⁰

If the pandemic remains widespread for another few months, I’d say we’ll all be wearing masks.

Supply chains for masks will have time to ramp up and we’ll have plenty of supply.

And you will notice that the only health authorities advising against the general public wearing masks are the ones for countries where supply is not sufficient. All countries with enough supply are recommending widespread use. So if the situation drags in time our own health authorities will eventually give that advice once we have supplicient supply.

timmy_mallet

Just Saying wrote: »

The object of this is to make people stay at home.The aim is to reduce community transmissions dramatically.If this is the case the vast majority of new cases will be household transmissions reducing the need for contact tracing.

Outside of the most obvious reasons for leaving your home such as necessary work,shopping etc the only real discretionary reason is exercise.This has been curtailed to a radius of 2km from your home.The reasoning behind this is to make it more difficult for people to visit other households and claim they were exercising if questioned.

I am stunned at the number of Me Me Me people on this thread who state the they will ignore this part of the requirement as they cant be spreading the virus if they go for their normal run. They are either unable or unwilling to realise the reasoning behind the 2km rule which is as outlined.

They are exactly the same mentality as those people who failed to adhere to social distancing...they don't want to realise that the rule is there for a reason.

What they dont understand is that this is not yet a total lockdown.Their desire to go for lengthy runs will mean that the Govt. might have to play their final card which will result in virtually no exercise at all being permitted.If this happens we will know who to blame.

If the government can prove that that a lone jogger/cyclist causes community transmission then go ahead, but while people are still mauling the same packet of easy singles in Tesco as the next person, its absurd to restrict that.

niallo27

Nonoperational

wellwhynot wrote: »

HSE said we have 2100 acute beds and 167 critical beds.

I assume critical is ICU? Can anyone confirm? If so, that number is tiny. We were told a higher number a few weeks ago.

We have over 500 ICU beds with the addition of private hospitals and can ventilate many more in areas outside of ICU if necessary.

Hobgoblin11

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Lets hope it works

https://twitter.com/adrianzenz/status/1243992460839321600

bargain basement stuff!

Gynoid

niallo27 wrote: »

Okay, i generally disagree with your take, and i find the graphs useful, but that is funny

timmy_mallet

Gynoid wrote: »

Okay, i generally disagree with your take, and i find the graphs useful, but that is funny

All models are wrong, but some are useful.... (and this one is correct)

Ger Roe

walshb wrote: »

But surely there are legal and insurance areas that could deem NCT testing very essential?

It’s an offence to be driving a car without a valid NCT certificate..

Yes, but this is a global pandemic situation - everything has changed. If you were an NCT tester would you be willing to risk the health of you and your family by sitting in stranger's cars all day? If you had to get your NCT done, would you still go and have a stranger drive your car and operate the same controls you will have to use to get home?

For health reasons, it had to be cancelled - all other reasons can be worked out later - serious health complications or death can not.

wakka12

Recoveries have hit 150,000

degsie

Remember folks, you are not responsible for your own health anymore, you are responsible for EVERYBODY's health!

alan partridge aha

Why are we soooooo slow at showing recovery figures?

Doc07

wellwhynot wrote: »

HSE said we have 2100 acute beds and 167 critical beds.

I assume critical is ICU? Can anyone confirm? If so, that number is tiny. We were told a higher number a few weeks ago.

HSE didn’t say that.

Marsden35

As things stand, the two countries doing the best seem to be Israel and Australia, with an honourable mention to the Czech Republic and Austria to some extent.

Still early days and some countries are behind others on the curve.

Ger Roe

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Why are we soooooo slow at showing recovery figures?

Because at the moment our figures are so low that it is minimal and would not read as good news. It takes time to recover and we are only getting started.

Fr_Dougal

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Why are we soooooo slow at showing recovery figures?

We have to wait for recoveries before we can show figures for them.

Gooey Looey

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Why are we soooooo slow at showing recovery figures?

Do you know who's recovered if you're busy concentrating on the influx of sick patients

alan partridge aha

Ger Roe wrote: »

Because at the moment our figures are so low that it is minimal and would not read as good news. It takes time to recover and we are only getting started.

Dont bother with the 5 so.

flashforward

Some key questions are being consistently missed at these briefings.

HSE briefing today states that they are doing 5000 swabs/day
**How many lab results are they getting a day?**

We have 500 ICU beds and will secure/convert more
**Do we have the staffing to man these beds?**

No point in pressing swabs if we cant convert to results
No point in adding beds if we dont have the trained personnel to operate the equipment.