When will we fly again?

jonnny68

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

I’m concerned about the restrictions on return more than going. If we’ve to isolate for 2 weeks after coming back that will make it impossible for travel really. I’d put up with the extra q

the only way around this at present is to either fly or get ferry into Belfast and then back to Dublin or wherever else you live.

johnire

That's not exactly a responsible thing to do is it?

jonnny68 wrote: »

the only way around this at present is to either fly or get ferry into Belfast and then back to Dublin or wherever else you live.

CBear1993

Neither is drinking umpteen beers and getting full as a shuck John but we all don't live by the rule book.

Not all of us are going to feed off simon's crumbs for the next year.

Travel is inevitable, some people will take the chance and say to hoot with your 14 day restrictions, particularly depending on their employer/workplace.

smelly sock

Received an email from accomodation provider in Lanzarote. His feeling is they are gearing up to let people in late May early June. Defo thinks July will be happening. Doesnt want balance until we arrive either.

Hard to know who to ne taking advice from.

cgcsb

The Canaries and the Balerics are well ahead of the rest of Spain, having no cases for some time. Ireland is one of the lower risk countries and the Autonomous Community of the Canary Islands have almost no economy bar the tourism sector and the spin offs from it so I'd expect we'd be allowed return there shortly. The question is if Simon Harris will insist on 14 days isolation for returning holidaymakers. And how they will check this is the case.

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

The Canaries and the Balerics are well ahead of the rest of Spain, having no cases for some time. Ireland is one of the lower risk countries and the Autonomous Community of the Canary Islands have almost no economy bar the tourism sector and the spin offs from it so I'd expect we'd be allowed return there shortly. The question is if Simon Harris will insist on 14 days isolation for returning holidaymakers. And how they will check this is the case.

It certainly seems like the genie is rapidly escaping from the bottle with respect to travel and there his nothing that Simon Harris is going to be able to do to stop people heading off. The only tool at his disposal is that 14 day quarantine when returning, and perhaps it will be beefed up and rigidly enforced. But I just don’t see it.....I just can’t see Gardai checking up on thousands of returning holiday makers. More likely I think is that the government relents as numbers continue to fall across Europe through July and August.

jonnny68

johnire wrote: »

That's not exactly a responsible thing to do is it?

Who are you to judge other peoples circumstances, you think im going to the UK for a jolly up or something, i wouldn't be going unless i needed to.

cgcsb

Deleted User wrote: »

It certainly seems like the genie is rapidly escaping from the bottle with respect to travel and there his nothing that Simon Harris is going to be able to do to stop people heading off. The only tool at his disposal is that 14 day quarantine when returning, and perhaps it will be beefed up and rigidly enforced. But I just don’t see it.....I just can’t see Gardai checking up on thousands of returning holiday makers. More likely I think is that the government relents as numbers continue to fall across Europe through July and August.

Even if the 14 day rule is implement, enforcement just isn't realistic, it'll be depending on people to comply (which to be fair in Ireland 99% are very compliant with the rules so far). Even if the gardaí go around checking, there's no reason a self isolating person can't be out for a run. The new legislation isn't robust enough to secure a real world prosecution and they'll be throwing open the door to supreme court challenges and what not, also the sheer number of people travelling will make it impractical.

Lots of employers might stipulate that if you go abroad you self isolate (well, don't attend site) when you return. One of the places I was in prior to the lockdown was at that. They are classed as essential so need to protect the supply chain etc.
It wasn't paid leave either iirc.

cgcsb

Augeo wrote: »

Lots of employers might stipulate that if you go abroad you self isolate (well, don't attend site) when you return. One of the places I was in prior to the lockdown was at that. They are classed as essential so need to protect the supply chain etc.
It wasn't paid leave either iirc.

For all they know you went to Mosney for the week though.

Bob24

jonnny68 wrote: »

Who are you to judge other peoples circumstances, you think im going to the UK for a jolly up or something, i wouldn't be going unless i needed to.

Could be wrong, but the way I read it is that the OP is not referring to going to the UK as not being responsible; and is rather referring to trying to evade quarantine rules.

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

For all they know you went to Mosney for the week though.

Mmmmmmm .......... I'd like to think in a World where contact tracing is looking very important that folk wouldn't adopt that approach.

It's possible that folk can go to Italy etc soon and come back via Belfast and tell their employer they were in Ireland, very worrying if that attitude is widespread.

I don't think an accommodation centre for asylum seekers would be a viable fake story though, word to the wise etc.

cgcsb

Once there are normal flights and the host countries in the med are accepting tourists it'll be more less a free for all. The political pressure to reopen in Spain is at boiling point, especially in the Autonomous communities most impacted by the tourism shortfall (Andalucia, Baleric Islands and Canary Islands). Spain is highly federalised and each community is setting their own pace on easing lockdown. Madrid and Catalunya could drag on a fair bit although Pedro Sanchez has promised to lift the ban on internal travel soon so they wont be far behind from a practical stance you couldn't really allow international flights into Malaga and then not Madrid. Spain's highspeed rail would make that pointless.

smelly sock

johnire wrote: »

That's not exactly a responsible thing to do is it?

And either is Ryanair potentially putting a gun to peoples heads if they decide to start flights. It's either use it or lose it in that scenario.

But hey ho. It's ok for the big corporates to do it but not for Johnny on the average industrial wage to decide he doesn't want to lose a wedge of money.

cgcsb

Augeo wrote: »

Mmmmmmm .......... I'd like to think in a World where contact tracing is looking very important that folk wouldn't adopt that approach.

It's possible that folk can go to Italy etc soon and come back via Belfast and tell their employer they were in Ireland, very worrying if that attitude is widespread.

People are desperate for a holiday. The lockdown has a toll on mental health.

Augeo wrote: »

I don't think an accommodation centre for asylum seekers would be a viable fake story though, word to the wise etc.

Tongue in cheek.

JimmyVik

Deleted User wrote: »

It certainly seems like the genie is rapidly escaping from the bottle with respect to travel and there his nothing that Simon Harris is going to be able to do to stop people heading off. The only tool at his disposal is that 14 day quarantine when returning, and perhaps it will be beefed up and rigidly enforced. But I just don’t see it.....I just can’t see Gardai checking up on thousands of returning holiday makers. More likely I think is that the government relents as numbers continue to fall across Europe through July and August.

Problem is once the ICU numbers hit 150 again its an automatic lockdown.
So a little pain now or more pain later is the choice for the people of Ireland.

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

People are desperate for a holiday. The lockdown has a toll on mental health.
..........

Yeah, it's all relative though.
I think many will decide not to travel abroad this Summer. Airports will be very busy and quite grim IMO.

Micky 32

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It certainly seems like the genie is rapidly escaping from the bottle with respect to travel and there his nothing that Simon Harris is going to be able to do to stop people heading off. The only tool at his disposal is that 14 day quarantine when returning, and perhaps it will be beefed up and rigidly enforced. But I just don’t see it.....I just can’t see Gardai checking up on thousands of returning holiday makers. More likely I think is that the government relents as numbers continue to fall across Europe through July and August.

You could always suddenly “ feel unwell”, develop a “cough”, “ had a temp” on return. Get a test, is it now a 3 day turnaround? Beats 14 days if it came back negative ;-)

jonnny68

Bob24 wrote: »

Could be wrong, but the way I read it is that the OP is not referring to going to the UK as not being responsible; and is rather referring to trying to evade quarantine rules.

yeah i dont want the cops calling to my house and there's a chance they would, ill be working at home anyway but last thing you want is a cop car pulling up and knocking on the door,it's a downright ridiculous thing expecting people to self isolate for 2 weeks and is going to have a serious impact on travel the longer it goes on, common sense is required, only travel unless you need to and wear masks and gloves and carry wipes and sanitiser.

jonnny68

jonnny68 wrote: »

.........., common sense is required, only travel unless you need to and wear masks and gloves and carry wipes and sanitiser..

But folk reckon being desperate for a holiday is reason to travel to Spain, Italy etc etc
Many of them were likely the same fncktards spieling on about rich kids skiiing that brought the virus in to the country when the guburnmint should have stopped them.

GocRh

cgcsb wrote: »

Even if the 14 day rule is implement, enforcement just isn't realistic, it'll be depending on people to comply (which to be fair in Ireland 99% are very compliant with the rules so far). Even if the gardaí go around checking, there's no reason a self isolating person can't be out for a run. The new legislation isn't robust enough to secure a real world prosecution and they'll be throwing open the door to supreme court challenges and what not, also the sheer number of people travelling will make it impractical.

I have returned from the continent in early May. For whatever it's worth, only enforcement were 2 phone calls on my 2nd day and 10th day to check if I was still self isolating at the same address I've indicated on the arrival form.


BTW there's no legislation in place and self-isolation is 100% voluntary.

jonnny68

GocRh wrote: »

I have returned from the continent in early May. For whatever it's worth, only enforcement were 2 phone calls on my 2nd day and 10th day to check if I was still self isolating at the same address I've indicated on the arrival form.


BTW there's no legislation in place and self-isolation is 100% voluntary.

unfortunately they have made it mandatory now, in the last few days, if it was voluntary if get a flight back to Dublin instead of a nightmare long ferry and bus,etc.

Micky 32

jonnny68 wrote: »

unfortunately they have made it mandatory now, in the last few days, if it was voluntary if get a flight back to Dublin instead of a nightmare long ferry and bus,etc.

Was it signed into law here? Expiry date?

jonnny68

Augeo wrote: »

But folk reckon being desperate for a holiday is reason to travel to Spain, Italy etc etc
Many of them were likely the same fncktards spieling on about rich kids skiiing that brought the virus in to the country when the guburnmint should have stopped them.

well i cant speak for anyone who wants to travel to Spain for a holiday hopefully by July or August we can do, but certainly no one should be going on holiday right now.

cgcsb

GocRh wrote: »

I have returned from the continent in early May. For whatever it's worth, only enforcement were 2 phone calls on my 2nd day and 10th day to check if I was still self isolating at the same address I've indicated on the arrival form.


BTW there's no legislation in place and self-isolation is 100% voluntary.

I'd expect that will be the extent of the enforcement. It would be impractical to go harder.

Bob24

Augeo wrote: »

But folk reckon being desperate for a holiday is reason to travel to Spain, Italy etc etc

I think the 14 days quarantine actually sets some bar for what essential travel is: if someone isn't willing to quarantine for 14 days upon return, their trip most not be that essential.

Besides the health aspect of it, quarantines upon arrival worked pretty well in China and other Asia countries as a way to allow travel for honest people with genuinely essential reasons, and discourage those who have a fairly loose definition of what essential is.

jonnny68

Micky 32 wrote: »

Was it signed into law here? Expiry date?

Leo Varadakar said it himself at the briefing last week , not sure if it's actually been signed into law but if not then they'll be looking to do it ASAP

NackJapier

Was supposed to go Amsterdam April 6th. Was told 2 weeks beforehand flights were not going ahead. Still no refund or even an email back from Skyscanner.

Anybody here able help a lad out? Anybody in similar situation? Pretty clueless about all this malarkey.

Micky 32

jonnny68 wrote: »

Leo Varadakar said it himself at the briefing last week , not sure if it's actually been signed into law but if not then they'll be looking to do it ASAP

Ah right. I did hear Harris say he was “hoping” to sign it in this week but i have heard there could be legal issues around it though being in the EU.

jonnny68

Micky 32 wrote: »

Ah right. I did hear Harris say he was “hoping” to sign it in this week but i have heard there could be legal issues around it though being in the EU.

yeah maybe it was Harris not sure, cant stand either of them anyway.

acequion

Augeo wrote: »

But folk reckon being desperate for a holiday is reason to travel to Spain, Italy etc etc
Many of them were likely the same fncktards spieling on about rich kids skiiing that brought the virus in to the country when the guburnmint should have stopped them.

Wow what a righteous and patronising post!!!

I'm desperate for a holiday and preferably one to Spain which is a second home to me and I have loved ones there. I'm desperate for a holiday as I have found this entire period extremely tough and just before that I went through a rough period with illness and bereavement in my family.

Also, I'm far from a "fncktard", never spieled about rich kids or anybody for that matter as I'm not judgmental, and actually I do think it's the job of the "guburnmint" to set the rules. That's why we elect them and pay them handsomely.

So maybe realise that you're offending whole swathes of people with posts like that and drop the attitude. :mad:

GocRh

jonnny68 wrote: »

Leo Varadakar said it himself at the briefing last week , not sure if it's actually been signed into law but if not then they'll be looking to do it ASAP

Leo and Simon Harris both called for 'tougher' enforcement, but said it would take a few weeks for legislation to be passed.

I've just checked the forms and Q&A and both still say that passengers are expected to self isolate. It seems legislation is still in the works?

With most of Europe reopening, I don't see how the Government can justify toughening up restrictions. 2 months too late!!!

BTW I completely support selective self-isolation for people returning from countries where COVID is still out of control (US, Russia, etc). But not a blanket self-isolation requirement, most countries in Europe are doing just as well or better than us.

https://assets.gov.ie/74201/e6cbf010ced64414b54e4ee59f5fa533.pdf

GocRh

jonnny68 wrote: »

yeah maybe it was Harris not sure, cant stand either of them anyway.

Harris is full of sh** and has completely overstepped his mandate by telling people not to expect any form of travel this year.

FrStone

jonnny68 wrote: »

Due to fly this weekend to the UK and flight hasn't been cancelled yet ,so im going to go for it not a holiday some family which cant wait, ill be coming back by ferry via Belfast though, fcuk that having to self isolate for 2 weeks, be grand going to the UK as it's been confirmed Irish nationals are exempt from the 2 week quarantine.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/london-confirms-travellers-from-ireland-to-be-exempt-from-covid-19-quarantine-1.4256622

Best of luck with it, I'll be interested to hear how you get on as I have a similiar journey planned in early July.

I'm currently deciding between getting the Ferry to Belfast or flying to ROI and claiming that I am travelling onwards to NI, thus getting rid of the requirement to self isolate too.

Also wondering how I will get on with the trip to the airport - even though to be fair the likelihood of being stopped at a checkpoint is very low at this stage.

jonnny68

FrStone wrote: »

Best of luck with it, I'll be interested to hear how you get on as I have a similiar journey planned in early July.

I'm currently deciding between getting the Ferry to Belfast or flying to ROI and claiming that I am travelling onwards to NI, thus getting rid of the requirement to self isolate too.

Also wondering how I will get on with the trip to the airport - even though to be fair the likelihood of being stopped at a checkpoint is very low at this stage.

ill let you know but by all accounts Irish citizens are exempt from this quarantine rule into the UK.

ferry is your best bet right now, a nightmare journey but you can continue your journey then without having to fill out any forms.

GocRh

jonnny68 wrote: »

ill let you know but by all accounts Irish citizens are exempt from this quarantine rule into the UK.

ferry is your best bet right now, a nightmare journey but you can continue your journey then without having to fill out any forms.

Wouldn't it be easier to just fly into Belfast?

BTW where did you see that Irish citizens are exempt from quarantine in the UK when arriving from the continent? As far as I'm aware even British citizens need to go into quarantine if arriving by plane from anywhere other than ROI.

FrStone

GocRh wrote: »

Wouldn't it be easier to just fly into Belfast?

BTW where did you see that Irish citizens are exempt from quarantine in the UK when arriving from the continent? As far as I'm aware even British citizens need to go into quarantine if arriving by plane from anywhere other than ROI.

It's nothing to do with citizenship.

Anyone arriving in the UK from the ROI is not required to self isolate on arrival to the UK.

uli84

Sorry, im late on the news but looks like my Ibiza holiday I wrote about at some stage will go ahead in August unless some disaster happens, that’s great

Technocentral

JimmyVik wrote: »

Problem is once the ICU numbers hit 150 again its an automatic lockdown.
So a little pain now or more pain later is the choice for the people of Ireland.

There always were selfish people always will be.

jonnny68

jonnny68 wrote: »

............ common sense is required, only travel unless you need to and wear masks and gloves and carry wipes and sanitiser.

Augeo wrote: »

But folk reckon being desperate for a holiday is reason to travel to Spain, Italy etc etc
Many of them were likely the same fncktards spieling on about rich kids skiiing that brought the virus in to the country when the guburnmint should have stopped them.

acequion wrote: »

Wow what a righteous and patronising post!!!

I'm desperate for a holiday and preferably one to Spain which is a second home to me and I have loved ones there. I'm desperate for a holiday as I have found this entire period extremely tough and just before that I went through a rough period with illness and bereavement in my family.

Also, I'm far from a "fncktard", never spieled about rich kids or anybody for that matter as I'm not judgmental, and actually I do think it's the job of the "guburnmint" to set the rules. That's why we elect them and pay them handsomely.

So maybe realise that you're offending whole swathes of people with posts like that and drop the attitude. :mad:

Righteous and patronising me hole, it's clear I was on about folk trying to dodge and ignore 14 day quarantine and who aren't travelling for essential reasons.

Direct your ire at them if you want, it's folk not adhering to guidance that will prevent your holiday.

Technocentral wrote: »

There always were selfish people always will be.

Indeed

acequion

Augeo wrote: »

Righteous and patronising me hole, it's clear I was on about folk trying to dodge and ignore 14 day quarantine and who aren't travelling for essential reasons.

Direct your ire at them if you want, it's folk not adhering to guidance that will prevent your holiday.


Indeed

You still don't get it. It's precisely people like you who think you've the right to judge people "not travelling for essential reasons",presumably your idea of essential reasons, that are the focus of my ire. Have you not enough to do to live your own life and mind your own business about others? Clearly not.

smelly sock

Said it once and ill say it again. If Ryanair fly to Lanzarote in July im not prepared to lose my money. I'll be going.

acequion

acequion wrote: »

You still don't get it. It's precisely people like you who think you've the right to judge people "not travelling for essential reasons",presumably your idea of essential reasons, that are the focus of my ire. Have you not enough to do to live your own life and mind your own business about others? Clearly not.

Essential isn't hollibobs.

acequion

Augeo wrote: »

Essential isn't hollibobs.

"hollibobs" is that a word?

Even your vocabulary says it all :rolleyes:

Have the last word if you must, I've better things to be doing than arguing with people like you.

acequion

acequion wrote: »

"hollibobs" is that a word?

Even your vocabulary says it all :rolleyes:

Have the last word if you must, I've better things to be doing than arguing with people like you.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3fterm=Holibobs&amp=true

acequion

Augeo wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3fterm=Holibobs&amp=true

It's slang, which is why I was being sarcastic. Only adolescents use slang in adult debates and expect to win their arguments.

Earlier you had "fncktards" and "spieling" More slang. Use standard English if you want to be taken seriously.

Bob24

acequion wrote: »

You still don't get it. It's precisely people like you who think you've the right to judge people "not travelling for essential reasons",presumably your idea of essential reasons, that are the focus of my ire. Have you not enough to do to live your own life and mind your own business about others? Clearly not.

Unless the government gives a precise definition of what “essential” means, they will be subjectivity into it ... leading to perceived (and possibly real) abuse and conflicts.

But IMO anyone saying they have an essential journey to make, but that isolating for 14 days when they return isn’t acceptable to them is trying to have it both ways. Aside from very rare exceptions, if isolating for 14 days seems like it is too much to take, it means the trip isn’t that essential (dictionary definition of essential = an absolute necessity).

smelly sock

Id say the 14 qurantine is bluster from Harris. If he tries to impose this the aviation crowd will be on his case in no time. Its a bit like trying to keep the pubs closed until August.

Forget about it. This thing has been controlled as much as we can control it. Lets start to rescue the economy of Europe and Ireland again.

smelly sock

Bob24 wrote: »

Unless the government gives a precise definition of what “essential” means, they will be subjectivity into it ... leading to perceived (and possibly real) abuse and conflicts.

But IMO anyone saying they have an essential journey to make, but that isolating for 14 days when they return isn’t acceptable to them is trying to have it both ways. Aside from very rare exceptions, if isolating for 14 days seems like it is too much to take, it means the trip isn’t that essential (dictionary definition of essential = an absolute necessity).

One question

If its not going to be safe for travel then why would the airlines have flights? Tackle it at source rather than expecting hard pressed, hard working middle income and low income families to take the hit.

acequion

All rational minded people want to get things moving again while the zealots enjoy curtailment of freedom.

At the end of the day it will all come down to the numbers. If they remain at controllable levels and there's no second wave, then life will return to normal sooner rather than later and that's everywhere.

A second wave could be detrimental. However it will come if it's going to come and no amount of over caution will protect countries forever. Getting back to the business of living, working, travelling, albeit cautiously, is the best course of action and take it from there.