When will we fly again?

faceman

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

Once again you're totally jumping the gun.

He said it's unlikely. He then said it's okay if followed by 2 weeks quarantine.

Making travel unwieldy is worse than suspending travel. For people with travel booked and now unable to travel due to the quarantine may not get refunded by airlines who could argue that they’re still flying

Also get real. You going to take your holidays as normal?

smelly sock

Ryanair can go **** themselves if they think they wont be refunding me. Thats not good enough or fair. Under EU law i am entiled 10 per cent to a refund. I dont want a voucher that i wont have a hope of booking a flight with next year. I want my hard earned cash returned to my account.

JoeExotic81

faceman wrote: »

Making travel unwieldy is worse than suspending travel. For people with travel booked and now unable to travel due to the quarantine may not get refunded by airlines who could argue that they’re still flying

Also get real. You going to take your holidays as normal?

I was merely pointing out your grossly false information. You stated it like it was a fact that there would be no foreign travel for any Irish people for the rest of the year. Nonsense.

There's still a chance some form of foreign travel will be possible later in the year.

Clearly I'm not going on any foreign holidays anytime soon but your nonsense statements of fact are not helping anyone.

Berberis

My daughter is due home from NY later this month once her 1st year of university course is finished, which she has been doing remotely while in lockdown over there.

Also will need to return in August for her 2nd years studies. has her flight booked for returning home end of the month and all going well this will still fly. Hopefully she will still be able to book a flight for returning to NY in August.

Form what I can gather she will have to self isolate when she returns to Ireland, which is going to be tricky as we have two family members in the high risk group cocooning at home, so we are still trying to figure out how she can self isolate at home.

spurious

Still trying to get rid of repatriate the Latvian mother and child.
Fourth flight cancelled, rebooked for 29th May.
Aargh.

Micky 32

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I’m hoping the greens will get authority for a significant tariff on all flights originating in Ireland once this circus gets going again

They can put on as much tariffs as they like because I will be still flying to the states 3 times a year.

Sheep Shagger

Food for thought

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0503/1136348-flying-after-coronavirus/

ninebeanrows

Good news to take from today is confirmation France won't require a quarantine for EU or UKIRE residents arriving after their lockdown ends.

If this sets a precedent across the EU, it would enable internal transit between EU states from mid-Summer (July).

I would say if you want to fly out from July onwards you will be able to if you feel comfortable.

I'm back to where i started and believe I will be taking my flight at the end of July, fingers crossed. Probably a 70% likelihood on the current trajectory of the disease.

Masala

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Food for thought

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0503/1136348-flying-after-coronavirus/

Jeez.... a day out to a prison would be more attractive that that. And they expect us to pay for that treatment.

Micky 32

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

Good news to take from today is confirmation France won't require a quarantine for EU or UKIRE residents arriving after their lockdown ends.

If this sets a precedent across the EU, it would enable internal transit between EU states from mid-Summer (July).

I would say if you want to fly out from July onwards you will be able to if you feel comfortable.

I'm back to where i started and believe I will be taking my flight at the end of July, fingers crossed. Probably a 70% likelihood on the current trajectory of the disease.

That’s positive anyways as I like to visit France by car/boat once a year.

opinionated3

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

Good news to take from today is confirmation France won't require a quarantine for EU or UKIRE residents arriving after their lockdown ends.

If this sets a precedent across the EU, it would enable internal transit between EU states from mid-Summer (July).

I would say if you want to fly out from July onwards you will be able to if you feel comfortable.

I'm back to where i started and believe I will be taking my flight at the end of July, fingers crossed. Probably a 70% likelihood on the current trajectory of the disease.

Are you referring to holiday flights? I'm due to go on our annual trip to the Algarve at start of September. Think there's any chance of that?

ninebeanrows

I think if you have family or friends abroad you have a bigger chance to be able to travel July/Aug.


I reckon it's 50,50 for normal holidaying.

ShineOn7

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

I think if you have family or friends abroad you have a bigger chance to be able to travel July/Aug.

How does that play a part?


It won't make a difference

ZX7R

ShineOn7 wrote: »

How does that play a part?


It won't make a difference

European official for transport and tourism stated last month that flights must be made to accommodate families to visit each other across the EU

acequion

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Food for thought

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0503/1136348-flying-after-coronavirus/

I wouldn't be taking too much notice of an article written by Will Goodbody or indeed any RTE journalist with their penchant for sensationalist, tabloid style reporting.

International travel has come too far and become too necessary among the masses everywhere to revert to becoming the expensive preserve of the elite or to revert to the days of very limited routes. This crisis is a major blow to the aviation industry and bigger than 9/11, no doubt about that and it might take quite a while to recover, but eventually it will bounce back.

maestroamado

I expect it take at least 5 years for Airline Industry to return to 2019 levels. I am assuming that the world will recover in say two years'
If this does not happen it may take 10 years. There is also several possibilities around current tacky holiday trends.
It may never recover to where it was as per people numbers, the world will be a different place that's for sure...

Clonmel1000

maestroamado wrote: »

I expect it take at least 5 years for Airline Industry to return to 2019 levels. I am assuming that the world will recover in say two years'
If this does not happen it may take 10 years. There is also several possibilities around current tacky holiday trends.
It may never recover to where it was as per people numbers, the world will be a different place that's for sure...

Define tacky holiday trends?

maestroamado

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

Define tacky holiday trends?

I do not think people will stay in the small high-rise apartments after this health scare just on the basis this virus will be here for some time in my view...

acequion

maestroamado wrote: »

I expect it take at least 5 years for Airline Industry to return to 2019 levels. I am assuming that the world will recover in say two years'
If this does not happen it may take 10 years. There is also several possibilities around current tacky holiday trends.
It may never recover to where it was as per people numbers, the world will be a different place that's for sure...

I totally disagree. Firstly with your "tacky holiday trends" remark, you pigeon hole travellers into an extremely narrow band. You're almost going back to the "viva Espana" Benidorm brigade of the seventies.

Modern travel is a very sophisticated animal. Firstly the holiday market is tailored to every taste, from the upmarket villa in the south of France to your tacky high rise, with everything in between. Social distancing is very possible in the Tusacan countryside, Australian outbank, Canadian rockies, to name but a few.

Secondly a sizeable proportion of the public, not just in Ireland, don't just live in one country. People have loved ones abroad, property abroad, business interests abroad, study abroad etc etc. And for all of that air travel is absolutely essential.

Therefore,air traffic will return and soon. It is too important not to.

Many people, yourself included, talk with certainty of a changed world. The world evolves. In the 20th century there were two world wars, several smaller wars and a global pandemic Yet it was still standing with pretty much the same social structures in place on January 1st 2000. Changed and evolved but not all that different.

Once a vaccine becomes widely available travel will completely return to normal and the world will move on.

maestroamado

I hope your right but i think the principle reason that it will be slow is the density of these high-rise apartment buildings.
I may be wrong about the apartments as i have not had this type of holiday foe 20 years as i am now doing the type of trips you mention.
I think the masses flying to Malaga are staying in high-rise apartments on the costas and i think it take time for confidence to return to the sheer volume in this market, Ryanair alone have 3 flights a day from Dublin to Malaga.
The world evolves absolutely and we have to deal with this, what happens in the next Month be crucial as they start lifting restrictions around the world, we will see if the numbers start rising again, Italy and Spain are lifting restrictions.
I think the vaccine is a long way down the line for the masses but hopefully i am wrong.


Just seen this now...
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/holidays-flights-vouchers-and-refunds-your-questions-answered-1.4244621

podge018

Can't see much difference social distancing-wise between a high rise apartment in Benidorm and any hotel room in a more upmarket part of the world.

Clonmel1000

maestroamado wrote: »

I do not think people will stay in the small high-rise apartments after this health scare just on the basis this virus will be here for some time in my view...

So people who stay in small high rise apartments are tacky? Right......

maestroamado

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

So people who stay in small high rise apartments are tacky? Right......

Its the first i seen that term used in regard to a person, i don't agree with you... people are people...

An update on my Jet2 holiday that had been cancelled.

I opted to change dates which meant they would contact me to discuss.
Got a phone call the Sunday before last and went through rebooking for same time next year. All going ok until she was applying the discount offered. The max discount was for travel before March 2021. So I said I’d think about it as I was hoping to get the max as I was keeping with them and even upgrading my booking.
They said they’d ring back in a week.

Just looked at my bank account and 2 payments from Jet2 in. I can no longer look at my booking as it says it’s been cancelled. They must be refunding each payment I made separately as I’m still due more.

Works for me

faceman

It would seem that without causing too much furore the Spanish government is looking at ways to kickstart tourism is soon as they deem it safe to do so. (Bearing in mind they have had a very strict lockdown). One government minster referenced potentially opening up the country to different countries at different times with England uses as example of one they aren’t keen to open up to yet. It’s way off though. Can’t see Spain opening up to tourism flights before September

I’d hate to see Spain open up too soon and all the sacrifices they’ve had to make so far be in vain.
But I’d love to see the Spanish get back to some form of normality too and tourism is a big part of their normal.

It’s a tough call that’s for sure.

DvB

That site referenced further up the thread specific to the Canary Islands was talking about October at the earliest for non spanish tourists to start being permitted to travel in. And given the Canaries have dealt with this quite well in comparison to mainland Spain to me thats a clear indication that in reality 2020 will be a no no for tourism there.

FTR I wouldn't be in a hurry to open up either, if their cases & deaths etc. are largely being managed why suddenly open your borders to potentially 1000's of infected tourists?

faceman

DvB wrote: »

That site referenced further up the thread specific to the Canary Islands was talking about October at the earliest for non spanish tourists to start being permitted to travel in. And given the Canaries have dealt with this quite well in comparison to mainland Spain to me thats a clear indication that in reality 2020 will be a no no for tourism there.

FTR I wouldn't be in a hurry to open up either, if their cases & deaths etc. are largely being managed why suddenly open your borders to potentially 1000's of infected tourists?

I don’t know. Eventually economic pressure will take its toll. With Mediterranean countries once one opens up I’d say others will be quick to get open too to salvage some tourism.

MrMusician18

acequion wrote: »

I wouldn't be taking too much notice of an article written by Will Goodbody or indeed any RTE journalist with their penchant for sensationalist, tabloid style reporting.

International travel has come too far and become too necessary among the masses everywhere to revert to becoming the expensive preserve of the elite or to revert to the days of very limited routes. This crisis is a major blow to the aviation industry and bigger than 9/11, no doubt about that and it might take quite a while to recover, but eventually it will bounce back.

That's where you're wrong. If this crisis has thought us anything is that how little International travel is actually necessary.

After farming and energy, aviation tourism will be the next target of the green lobby. Indeed the pushback against tourism has already begun.

There will be no going back.

JimmyVik

faceman wrote: »

I don’t know. Eventually economic pressure will take its toll. With Mediterranean countries once one opens up I’d say others will be quick to get open too to salvage some tourism.

If one opens up and gets a sudden increase in covid cases then the whole lot will shut down again very fast.
The opening up of tourism will have to twinned with mass cover ups for it to work


I know for a fact that staff on flights have got the virus and that has been transmitted to other staff.


Yet I havent heard anything on the news about flight staff being infected.


An if staff can pass it to staff they can pass it to the passengers.

masculinist

MrMusician18 wrote: »

After farming and energy, aviation tourism will be the next target of the green lobby. Indeed the pushback against tourism has already begun.

There will be no going back.

That's the hill the eco fascists will die on .

beggars_bush

MrMusician18 wrote: »

That's where you're wrong. If this crisis has thought us anything is that how little International travel is actually necessary.

After farming and energy, aviation tourism will be the next target of the green lobby. Indeed the pushback against tourism has already begun.

There will be no going back.

Ok, but when we travel to quiet areas of France and Italy it really helps their local economies as we eat out, but local food, shop in smaller shops
Rural areas of Ireland are very reliant on the same spending of tourists

acequion

MrMusician18 wrote: »

That's where you're wrong. If this crisis has thought us anything is that how little International travel is actually necessary.

I don't know what planet you're living on if that's what you think. Certainly not the same one I'm on. Of course no travel is necessary once entire populations are under house arrest.

And I've no probably with that house arrest to save lives in an extreme situation like a global pandemic. But in normal times? Forcing people backwards? Making island nations insular as they were decades, even centuries ago?

That is one dystopian vista that would fill any cultured,well educated and travelled person with horror. As for the eco warriors, they would only love it.:rolleyes:

dohouch

Greece wants to open for Toowrists July - Greece looks to July for return of tourism ( last year 30 million)

Clonmel1000

MrMusician18 wrote: »

That's where you're wrong. If this crisis has thought us anything is that how little International travel is actually necessary.

After farming and energy, aviation tourism will be the next target of the green lobby. Indeed the pushback against tourism has already begun.

There will be no going back.

I’ll be going back I can assure you.

MrMusician18

acequion wrote: »

I don't know what planet you're living on if that's what you think. Certainly not the same one I'm on. Of course no travel is necessary once entire populations are under house arrest.

And I've no probably with that house arrest to save lives in an extreme situation like a global pandemic. But in normal times? Forcing people backwards? Making island nations insular as they were decades, even centuries ago?

That is one dystopian vista that would fill any cultured,well educated and travelled person with horror. As for the eco warriors, they would only love it.:rolleyes:

The belief in exceptionalism of our times can be quite astounding and is one that is completely ignorant of history. There have been several instances in the recent past where countries have gone backwards, Zimbabwe - once the bread basket of Africa is now it's basket case. Budapest - a major city in the Austria- Hungarian empire saw it's wealth vanish under communism. Cheap airline travel might be about to end permanently, there is nothing in history to say that these changes cannot happen - I don't say that with any great joy, I love to travel and own shares in Ryanair too


No country apart from the Chinese put their citizens under quasi house arrest, and what we are going through isn't house arrest, talk about hyperbole :rolleyes: Indeed it is still possible to fly in and out of Ireland at the moment for necessary travel. The low numbers flying indicate that really, there isn't much necessary travel, and makes us question the definition of what necessary travel in normal times is. It doesn't for one include tourism, and that's a certainty.

Based on what we've observed during the pandemic, even at full normal economic activity we can deduce that most (vast majority) travel is actually discretionary - and you don't think this hasn't been noticed by an ever more powerful green lobby? There has been a strong pushback against overtourism in many major cities, so the pandemic will give these people a taste of what a tourist free city is like and they might like it so much that won't want to go back. Maybe Barcelonians like having their city back?

Even with discounting, the new reality for aviation is going to see a reduction in carriers, destinations and flights. That is obvious now from the permanent layoffs in the industry right now. That alone will lead to a medium term rise in prices, short term discounting to get bums on seats won't count in the term that matters. And that's also not counting people's potential unwillingness to be crammed into a small space with strangers for hours on end. Aviation is going to get more expensive, and this will exclude poorer people from it.

faceman

JimmyVik wrote: »

If one opens up and gets a sudden increase in covid cases then the whole lot will shut down again very fast.
The opening up of tourism will have to twinned with mass cover ups for it to work

Yeah that’s the danger. Although I suspect if there is a second wave Italy and Spain will take swift action.

Interesting that Portugal didn’t suffer to the same degree as Spain

sadie1502

Were meant to be going to Florida end of July. I'm assuming aer lingus will cancel.

acequion

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The belief in exceptionalism of our times can be quite astounding and is one that is completely ignorant of history. There have been several instances in the recent past where countries have gone backwards, Zimbabwe - once the bread basket of Africa is now it's basket case. Budapest - a major city in the Austria- Hungarian empire saw it's wealth vanish under communism. Cheap airline travel might be about to end permanently, there is nothing in history to say that these changes cannot happen - I don't say that with any great joy, I love to travel and own shares in Ryanair too


No country apart from the Chinese put their citizens under quasi house arrest, and what we are going through isn't house arrest, talk about hyperbole :rolleyes: Indeed it is still possible to fly in and out of Ireland at the moment for necessary travel. The low numbers flying indicate that really, there isn't much necessary travel, and makes us question the definition of what necessary travel in normal times is. It doesn't for one include tourism, and that's a certainty.

Based on what we've observed during the pandemic, even at full normal economic activity we can deduce that most (vast majority) travel is actually discretionary - and you don't think this hasn't been noticed by an ever more powerful green lobby? There has been a strong pushback against overtourism in many major cities, so the pandemic will give these people a taste of what a tourist free city is like and they might like it so much that won't want to go back. Maybe Barcelonians like having their city back?

Even with discounting, the new reality for aviation is going to see a reduction in carriers, destinations and flights. That is obvious now from the permanent layoffs in the industry right now. That alone will lead to a medium term rise in prices, short term discounting to get bums on seats won't count in the term that matters. And that's also not counting people's potential unwillingness to be crammed into a small space with strangers for hours on end. Aviation is going to get more expensive, and this will exclude poorer people from it.

There is no belief in exceptionalism and you're right that history is full of enormous changes but in all the examples you cite it's been changes very much for the worse.Unless some repressive regime takes over nobody has any interest in forcing the lifeblood out of tourism,international trade and forcing nations to become insular as they once were.It would also go against the fundamental principles of the EU whose very essence is movement. And even the Green lobby wouldn't be so stupid. Green politicians depend on votes to get them elected, they wouldn't be long losing popularity if they turned into total zealots.

People's unwillingness to be crammed into a small space??? You really think people are going to be terrified away from travel in such numbers. Short term maybe but long term, I don't see it. People will put up with a bit of inconvenience to feel the hot sun, hear other languages, see other cultures and even as someone posted either here or in another thread, to get those Instagram photos in front of the Eiffel tower.

Now you might be right. We might be on the cusp of a dystopian world of insularity and I'm not convinced by your tone that you don't want it. But I certainly don't. And I'd hazard a guess that a helluva lot of people don't,both rich and poor the entire world over. And at the end of the day, everything is driven by people.

Mortelaro

sadie1502 wrote: »

Were meant to be going to Florida end of July. I'm assuming aer lingus will cancel.

Might not if the EU ban is lifted

ShineOn7

MrMusician18 wrote: »

That's where you're wrong. If this crisis has thought us anything is that how little International travel is actually necessary.

After farming and energy, aviation tourism will be the next target of the green lobby. Indeed the pushback against tourism has already begun.

There will be no going back.

Any chance you and the other Eco Warrior/Greta The Actress loving fans can go off into your own thread? You can all give each other virtual high fives there if it helps

You're all like vegetarians who tell people they're vegetarians, when no one actually asked

sadie1502

Mortelaro wrote: »

Might not if the EU ban is lifted

But we would probably have to isolate upon arrival in USA. So no point in going. Don't really want to go with things they way they are.

maestroamado

faceman wrote: »

I don’t know. Eventually economic pressure will take its toll. With Mediterranean countries once one opens up I’d say others will be quick to get open too to salvage some tourism.

I do not think there will be any tourists this year, there will be people who have places and likely there are people who have being doing the same thing year on year.
The Airlines will focus on this group i think this year and develop from there.
I just cannot see a mass of people wanting to go on family holidays in a few weeks...

Micky 32

MrMusician18 wrote: »

That's where you're wrong. If this crisis has thought us anything is that how little International travel is actually necessary.

After farming and energy, aviation tourism will be the next target of the green lobby. Indeed the pushback against tourism has already begun.

There will be no going back.

What a load of bo***x. International travel is necessary. Do you realise people have families the other side of the pond? Oh I forgot, the green lobby don’t give a dam about people just their materialistic cabbage patches on their window sills to match their heads. You are deluded if you think aviation will cease internationally :rolleyes:

When this pandemic is over aviation will flourish so get used to it.

Micky 32

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Any chance you and the other Eco Warrior/Greta The Actress loving fans can go off into your own thread? You can all give each other virtual high fives there .

Speaking of Greta, I was wondering to myself about the students and kids that “ flew on a plane “ to the skiing trip in Italy paid by mammies and daddies and then brought the virus back. I wonder if any of them were the same ones going on these school climate change strikes chanting “ Greta”.

Atlantic Dawn

I looked at Friday for the Dublin to Chicago Aer Lingus flight and could book it without issue if required, not sure what levels of checking would be on the US end.

Micky 32

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I looked at Friday for the Dublin to Chicago Aer Lingus flight and could book it without issue if required, not sure what levels of checking would be on the US end.

I don’t think they are letting non citizens in at the moment anyway. I was supposed to be in Connecticut last week via NY with Aer lingus but the flight wasn’t cancelled it flew.

MrMusician18

Micky 32 wrote: »

What a load of bo***x. International travel is necessary. Do you realise people have families the other side of the pond? Oh I forgot, the green lobby don’t give a dam about people just their materialistic cabbage patches on their window sills to match their heads. You are deluded if you think aviation will cease internationally :rolleyes:

When this pandemic is over aviation will flourish so get used to it.

Whoever said that aviation would cease internationally? It wasn't me anyway. Of course it will continue but I'd argue at suppressed volumes at least in the medium term. This is extremely likely because of the witnessed permanent contraction in carrier sizes we can see at the moment. The redundancies are happening right now.

If you think I'm part of the green lobby well you're majorly mistaken, but I can see them increasing their now already sizable influence here and in Europe. Is there any good reason that aviation fuel is excise exempt? There is no good reason why aviation should get a free pass while energy and agriculture have the life wrung out of them, and those two sectors will absolutely want burden sharing. Aviation and tourism might be down the list behind these two, but it's most definitely on the list.

These above factors will consequently mean an increase in airfares generally and a reduction in affordability.

Maybe my post generated such a strong reaction because we all know in our hearts that this is the inconvenient truth...

punisher5112

Wonder will this cut the amount on social welfare going on hols....

Will it feck.....

More stay in their own country and holiday there could well be a good thing.

Micky 32

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Whoever said that aviation would cease internationally? It wasn't me anyway. Of course it will continue but I'd argue at suppressed volumes at least in the medium term. This is extremely likely because of the witnessed permanent contraction in carrier sizes we can see at the moment. The redundancies are happening right now.

If you think I'm part of the green lobby well you're majorly mistaken, but I can see them increasing their now already sizable influence here and in Europe. Is there any good reason that aviation fuel is excise exempt? There is no good reason why aviation should get a free pass while energy and agriculture have the life wrung out of them, and those two sectors will absolutely want burden sharing. Aviation and tourism might be down the list behind these two, but it's most definitely on the list.

These above factors will consequently mean an increase in airfares generally and a reduction in affordability.

Maybe my post generated such a strong reaction because we all know in our hearts that this is the inconvenient truth...

I would say the reason no aviation fuel tax is because aviation is a huge part of the global economy, jobs, tourism etc etc it’s massive . Either way they can tax it all they want it won’t stop me flying to see family etc.