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Movistar Netflix Documentary
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Biggest surprise was seeing the cyclists driving the team cars after a stage. Valverde for example, driving down the mountain after busting a gut to get second that day.
This was really surprising!
I wonder if other teams do this? I thought all the riders got into the bus after a stage, or got a lift in cars down if the bus can't make it up there, or rode down! Who drove the cars up there and how did they get back down?
So many questions!0 -
This was really surprising!
I wonder if other teams do this? I thought all the riders got into the bus after a stage, or got a lift in cars down if the bus can't make it up there, or rode down! Who drove the cars up there and how did they get back down?
So many questions!
Alot of the high mountain stages the buses are no where near the finish. They could be 15km away. Some of the riders will just cycle back down to where the buses are after getting warm clothes & food at the finish. Sometimes they,ll take a cable car down if they finish in a ski resort. Stage like that valverde may have had to hang around a good while for doping control, media & sponsors so by the time he's done all the riders are finished and the roads quiet enough for the cars to drive down and he just goes straight to the hotel. Last while some teams have used helicopters to get their riders down off the finish but they dont always work0 -
Alot of the high mountain stages the buses are no where near the finish. They could be 15km away. Some of the riders will just cycle back down to where the buses are after getting warm clothes & food at the finish. Sometimes they,ll take a cable car down if they finish in a ski resort. Stage like that valverde may have had to hang around a good while for doping control, media & sponsors so by the time he's done all the riders are finished and the roads quiet enough for the cars to drive down and he just goes straight to the hotel. Last while some teams have used helicopters to get their riders down off the finish but they dont always work
Yeah I knew about the buses not being able to reach and the riding back down, the occasional helicopter, but the driving cars back was a new one on me, and I was wondering about the logistics of it. And other things!
Valverde came across well in the doc tbf, still not his biggest fan but he's a good team person going on that.0 -
I didn't get past the first episode. Thought it was all over the shop . Should I bother watching the rest? Seems good in ratings from people here but if it is anything like first episode I have no interest.0
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Jim Gazebo wrote: »I didn't get past the first episode. Thought it was all over the shop . Should I bother watching the rest? Seems good in ratings from people here but if it is anything like first episode I have no interest.
Exactly what I thought watching the first one, but well worth going on to 2&3 on last year's Giro.0 -
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May have been mentioned previously but theres an Orica Scott documentary on Amazon prime from the 2017 tour if any one needs a fix. Its not intense as the Movistar one and splits between the racing and the team chefs0
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Jim Gazebo wrote: »I didn't get past the first episode. Thought it was all over the shop . Should I bother watching the rest? Seems good in ratings from people here but if it is anything like first episode I have no interest.
Yes, I think so, and I agree with your thoughts on the first one. I've just finished watching episodes 2 and 3 and it is much more linear.0 -
Jim Gazebo wrote: »I didn't get past the first episode. Thought it was all over the shop . Should I bother watching the rest? Seems good in ratings from people here but if it is anything like first episode I have no interest.
I'd echo what the others have said. Episode 1 is all over the shop. But then the rest follow the calendar year... a couple of episodes each on the Giro, le Tour and Vuelta0 -
Yeah it was fairly tough on him though it looked as if they were pissed at him for what happened the previous day. I'd like to see him and Landa prosper at their new teams but a GT victory is unlikely with their TT skills.
Landa is like a modern day Luis Ocana, without the wins.
Can't see Carapaz being at Ineos too long.
You’d love to know what they actually edited out of this pretty warts and all documentary .
They sure as hell don’t like Quintana . He didn’t come across very well in it , not communicating etc, and he’s suppose to be the boss , the alpha male, the guy who actually has the giro n Vuelta titles, two really though titles.
Guess I’m not mad about him in light of the Tom Doumulon Giro incident in 2017 - one day Tom actually stops the peloton knowing that Nario is down, but the next day when Tom got into trouble , Nario didn’t return the favour , little bit C h
Then again, least we know that Nario ain’t on the juice . He didn’t exactly go out of his way to help his team And sort of threw the dummy out . Yet again Hard not to feel sorry for him, it was like an episode of the David Brent the office . Interesting to see how well he has done this season and it seems that his new team is actually a pretty decent group in their own right
The documentary didn’t show him in a good light at the Vuelta , not sure the emotional speech at the end was genuine, you could see the lads being more than happy to say, jog on Nario (despite the two GT wins)
Carpaz , hard to dislike him, but of a killer instinct, I like that. He certainly has balls as his team would shout. He kinda burned bridges with them at the end, they weren’t impressed how he was there for the Vuelta and having fecked off to Sky, kinda reminds me of Robin Van Persie ie the minute he got two solid seasons under in belt after so ,any years of injury and acting the bollock ,he decks off. Suppose he saw the drama at Movistar and thought feck this. But to go to Sky ? Jesus h Christ ,they have their own power struggles .
Valverde , hmm. Always respected his ability and willingness to ride in Classics and GTs , but 2008-2010 drugs scandals always made me doubt and dislike him. He’s an interesting dude and a savage cv if he’s clean. Outstanding even . He’s a guy who talks a lot but does walk the walk too ,so kudos. There were two incidents were I thought he came across as being a bit coy, coy even.... one in particular was when he claimed not to hear his team mate ,who was in a winning position , ask for a gel . Can see , from his personality, why he is highly respected by the media and the peloton .
The other team mates, I found very interesting ,especially the blonde head guy, Rojas and Soller ,felt sorry for him at the Vuelta
As for the two guys in the cars, the Giro guy ,it’s all about the balls lol, seems likeable ,someone the riders can like but came across as a bit incompetent ,he fecked up a few times but he admitted it immediately
. The bald head guy for the TDF and Vuelta , have zero time for ... Some of his orders screwed things up And again, felt he emotional speech at the end was for show - could see how Nario would be like “bit ch please “
Landa, where do he start. Great rider , hard not to think that the man is cursed especially getting knocked down this year,when he has a new team but .... he comes across as big of a self entitled woes me bitch . He didn’t have the “balls” to grab the incentives . Certainly was a man on a mission at the TDF
Great show, would love to know what they cut out . I use to laugh at Movistar ballsing up races ie riding hard for other teams , but I can’t blame the riders themselves. Despite a pretty good year for them, last year, it seemed a very toxic environment which we already suspected0 -
Jim Gazebo wrote: »I didn't get past the first episode. Thought it was all over the shop . Should I bother watching the rest? Seems good in ratings from people here but if it is anything like first episode I have no interest.
Yes watch the rest, it’s brilliant, just for the camera work and interviews alone. All over the shop, is probably an apt description of how the team rode last year . Surprised so much of it got released , compare to the stuff Froome and G did for their documentaries0 -
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One think that comes out well for them is the incident in the Vuelta where they attacked when Roglic was caught up in the crash. At the time everyone was disgusted with them but looking at it now, it was their plan from the get-go and the race was on.0
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It also came across to me that most of the DS aren't really that great.
Tactics? Go hard on the last hill? Make it hard for them today? When a rider is away on his own roar have you got the balls?
We could all do that.
I mean even the Sky tactics aren't anything magic- ride a train as hard as you can all the way up the last mountain and your team leader rides away. Pretty much any race I ever did.
It's the same as it ever was - strongest man wins (mostly).0 -
Randy Archer wrote: »You’d love to know what they actually edited out of this pretty warts and all documentary .
The directors were only asked to remove two bits, one was some swearing, and the other was some unintentional nudity (someone walked across the back of a shot)0 -
It's a fascinating series all right. It's interesting how the likes of Carapaz and Quintana are such heroes back in their home countries. Reminded me a lot of the fuss over Stepehen Roche and Sean Kelly here back in the day. I'm finding it hard to keep up with the subtitles at times as the Spanish speak so damn fast. Will definitely watch it again though.0
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I think he says exactly this in the last episode, he won't get to be leader at Movistar, and he gets a bigger cheque at Sky.I was trying to work that one out. My impression was that he didn't want to stay at Movistar because he didn't think he'd get a chance to be leader. Is he moving to Ineos because he think he'll be leader there, or because at least he'll get paid a fortune not to be leader?
Indeed, he comes across as possibly one of the nicest guys there. Sometimes he clearly associates with the more favourable on the day, but I get the impression it is all just a bit of fun and games, repeatedly, I am 39, I shouldn't be here but I'll be back next year.Only up to episode 4 but Valverde doesnt come across as much of prick as i thought he was
It's worth watching but it remains all over the shop IMO, there was no smooth flwo. The episodes became more focused, but still not the most logical in regards sequencing.Jim Gazebo wrote: »I didn't get past the first episode. Thought it was all over the shop . Should I bother watching the rest? Seems good in ratings from people here but if it is anything like first episode I have no interest.
I didn't think they came across all that bad, they all come across nicer than I imagined, the looks on their faces didn't match up with wat they said. It still came off a bit PR fluffy IMO, just by someone who knows not to make it to nicey nice.Randy Archer wrote: »You’d love to know what they actually edited out of this pretty warts and all documentary .
He says it himself at the end, interesting comeback on one of the stages after being nearly dead the day before.They sure as hell don’t like Quintana . He didn’t come across very well in it , not communicating etc, and he’s suppose to be the boss , the alpha male, the guy who actually has the giro n Vuelta titles, two really though titles.
I still think that is the team telling him to go and him following, it was the one thing that stuck out about the whole thing, the riders looked way better but the team management really came across poorly.Guess I’m not mad about him in light of the Tom Doumulon Giro incident in 2017 - one day Tom actually stops the peloton knowing that Nario is down, but the next day when Tom got into trouble , Nario didn’t return the favour , little bit C h
How do you know that? Not saying he is or was, just no way to know from this.Then again, least we know that Nario ain’t on the juice . He didn’t exactly go out of his way to help his team And sort of threw the dummy out . Yet again Hard not to feel sorry for him, it was like an episode of the David Brent the office . Interesting to see how well he has done this season and it seems that his new team is actually a pretty decent group in their own right
I thought it was one of the few genuine things, he had towed the line for so long and they all turned on him in a second, even though the issues were more management than Nairo.The documentary didn’t show him in a good light at the Vuelta , not sure the emotional speech at the end was genuine, you could see the lads being more than happy to say, jog on Nario (despite the two GT wins)
I thought it was sh1tty they called him a traitor at the end, it isn't parish GAA, it is big business, he brought them a huge win, I think it just showed him as smarter than the rest.Carpaz , hard to dislike him, but of a killer instinct, I like that. He certainly has balls as his team would shout. He kinda burned bridges with them at the end, they weren’t impressed how he was there for the Vuelta and having fecked off to Sky, kinda reminds me of Robin Van Persie ie the minute he got two solid seasons under in belt after so ,any years of injury and acting the bollock ,he decks off. Suppose he saw the drama at Movistar and thought feck this. But to go to Sky ? Jesus h Christ ,they have their own power struggles .
Ha, its funny how his radio never works when it suits him. He is one of those people I imagine it is hard to dislike if your on the same side as him.Valverde , hmm. Always respected his ability and willingness to ride in Classics and GTs , but 2008-2010 drugs scandals always made me doubt and dislike him. He’s an interesting dude and a savage cv if he’s clean. Outstanding even . He’s a guy who talks a lot but does walk the walk too ,so kudos. There were two incidents were I thought he came across as being a bit coy, coy even.... one in particular was when he claimed not to hear his team mate ,who was in a winning position , ask for a gel . Can see , from his personality, why he is highly respected by the media and the peloton .
Its all the team management, they simply aren't good at it, but apparently that isn't a huge issue.Great show, would love to know what they cut out . I use to laugh at Movistar ballsing up races ie riding hard for other teams , but I can’t blame the riders themselves. Despite a pretty good year for them, last year, it seemed a very toxic environment which we already suspected
I didn't dislike them for it, racing is racing, I always joke I'd ride over you in a club league race to get a sniff of points, and while joking, at that level, I only think they stop if they are tired or they have been told. It's liek when Cancellara used to boss people into stopping for the yellow jersey, if you think it was for anything other than the fact he wouldn't hold it, I think your fooling yourself.One think that comes out well for them is the incident in the Vuelta where they attacked when Roglic was caught up in the crash. At the time everyone was disgusted with them but looking at it now, it was their plan from the get-go and the race was on.
It's no different than an amateur race by the look of it.It also came across to me that most of the DS aren't really that great.
Tactics? Go hard on the last hill? Make it hard for them today? When a rider is away on his own roar have you got the balls?
We could all do that.
I mean even the Sky tactics aren't anything magic- ride a train as hard as you can all the way up the last mountain and your team leader rides away. Pretty much any race I ever did.
It's the same as it ever was - strongest man wins (mostly).0 -
I think he says exactly this in the last episode, he won't get to be leader at Movistar, and he gets a bigger cheque at Sky.
Don't forget the falling out between Unzue and Giuseppe Acquadro. That's a big factor too in Quintana to Arkea-Samsic, Carapaz and Amador to Ineos. And he's making sure that the South American pipeline that Gianni Savio runs doesn't go near Movistar.
R0 -
One think that comes out well for them is the incident in the Vuelta where they attacked when Roglic was caught up in the crash. At the time everyone was disgusted with them but looking at it now, it was their plan from the get-go and the race was on.
Didn't see the incident at the time but this is one aspect of Pro Cycling I'd hate to see left by the wayside. I'm sure there's been numerous occasions where riders or teams have planned to attack on the day a Race Leader has been held up. For something as monumental as a 3 week stage race I always thought it fantastic when a Peloton or Main Group slows the pace for a fallen Race Leader to get back into the group.
Then you can attack him/her all you want foe the rest of the stage. It's one of those things were lives are changed by a puncture or other misfortune. If you don't extend that behaviour to others as I would in a race then never expect it when you're on the receiving end of a bit of bad luck.0 -
What struck me was none of them really had much personality, then when Valverde appears in the later episodes he lights up the screen. I didn't want to like him but he had more charisma than the other four put together. You can see why he's a star!0
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Didn't see the incident at the time but this is one aspect of Pro Cycling I'd hate to see left by the wayside. I'm sure there's been numerous occasions where riders or teams have planned to attack on the day a Race Leader has been held up. For something as monumental as a 3 week stage race I always thought it fantastic when a Peloton or Main Group slows the pace for a fallen Race Leader to get back into the group.
Then you can attack him/her all you want foe the rest of the stage. It's one of those things were lives are changed by a puncture or other misfortune. If you don't extend that behaviour to others as I would in a race then never expect it when you're on the receiving end of a bit of bad luck.
I would strongly disagree, that is part of the race, why does the leader by a few seconds deserve everyone to stop whereas the riders in 2nd or 3rd get nothing, it always sickens me a bit, either stop for every fallen rider till it is confirmed or stop for none. I prefer the former but would accept the latter at this level. If you can make an argument that makes sense whereby the 1st place rider is more deserving of the 2nd place rider who has planned meticulously to overtake him on GC on a certain day then I'd love to hear it. The riders got lambasted after that incident even though they were simply employees following orders, as they are meant too. It happens all the time but people seem to forget very easily. We tend to remember more when we don't like the riders who do it, and Movistar were not well liked at the time.
This said, I now simply dislike their management rather than their riders, not sure if that was their plan but if it was, it worked.0 -
Don't forget the falling out between Unzue and Giuseppe Acquadro. That's a big factor too in Quintana to Arkea-Samsic, Carapaz and Amador to Ineos. And he's making sure that the South American pipeline that Gianni Savio runs doesn't go near Movistar.
R
The falling out happened *because* of Carapaz to Ineos. The deal was done in the first year of Carapaz's contract and Movistar never got a sniff of it. Couple that with Carapaz riding an TDF Crit and doing his shoulder you had to know the wheels were coming off that relationship, but it was never explained or looked at in the Docu.0 -
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The directors were only asked to remove two bits, one was some swearing, and the other was some unintentional nudity (someone walked across the back of a shot)
Well, Kudos to the people behind Movistar then, for showing it. As i suggested earlier and another poster pointed out, the documentary doesn’t show the directors ,especially the baldy dude from TDF and Vuelta ina good light, tactically .
Just recently Carpaz argued that he didn’t fell thst he got the support he needed while leader at the Giro. Despite coming fourth a year previous . It was all about Landa . So maybe he had a point. Wasn’t impressed with the ds at the end who candidly called Carpaz out as a traitor .sure money might have being there, but you’d have needed the patience of a saint and extremely hard neck to put up with a few years of Nario,Valverde n Landa drama . Great for winning the team award at TDF but they’d rather hang each other on the road or ride so hard and well for other teams to take advantage
Suppose with Thomas and Froome coming to an end,soon , maybe Carpaz, a young man , isn’t so crazy to join Ineos . Wonder are they totally behind their English man, Geoghegan Heart (whose done well enough so far ) or our Eddie Dunbar0 -
Carapaz isn't particularly young, especially compared to Sivakov, Bernal, TGH and Eddie and it's hard to see Ineos not developing those guys further. It's possible he's been brought in as a potential GC stop-gap with Froome and Thomas coming to the end of their careers.
Carapaz is a proven GT rider, now with the Giro title in the bag too. I can see him leading for the upcoming Giro(whenever that is) and being Co for the Vuelta. Then depending on form and availability over the next 2 years he may be kept in the loop for the Giro or Co with Bernal for the TDF. Sky/Ineos unlike Movistar do seem to be able to manage egos to an extent, or at least manage to keep winning GTs regardless of who's team leader.
Movistar don't even seem to be able to keep a handle on Solers jealousy of Enric Mas joining0 -
Carapaz at 26, is only coming into the prime age for a GC cyclist though so may well have years ahead being the dominant GC cyclist at INEOS.
He's less than a year older than TGH too. He's got a top 4 and a GC win.
Cycling is littered with highly promising youngsters, touted for GC and beyond who never quite make that breakthrough too, so I imagine he's there to win GCs along with Bernal over the next 3-5 years while maybe, and it's a big maybe the younger guys get ready.0 -
Carapaz at 26, is only coming into the prime age for a GC cyclist though so may well have years ahead being the dominant GC cyclist at INEOS.
He's less than a year older than TGH too. He's got a top 4 and a GC win.
Cycling is littered with highly promising youngsters, touted for GC and beyond who never quite make that breakthrough too, so I imagine he's there to win GCs along with Bernal over the next 3-5 years while maybe, and it's a big maybe the younger guys get ready.
Apologies, for some reason I had it in my head that Carapaz was 29 so my earlier point was a fair bit off.0 -
Carapaz or anyone going to find it hard to shift Froome ...that guy wants to go on and on
This years Tour would be fascinating at Ineos0 -
I watched it over the weekend and if I'm honest I thought it was quite poor. Here have lots of arty shots of lamp shades shoes on the floor. Content wise was quite minimal and the jumping around made it almost unwatchable at times. I think it benefited massively from the content drought at the moment. We've no cycling so anything cycling related is "amazing". If this was shown during a normal cycling season I think peoples reactions to it would be different.
For anyone that saw say the Paul Kimmage doc there was more content in that in 1 hour than this would have in 3 seasons at the current rate. One 6 minute episode of Mitchelton Scott BSP covers more than two episodes.
I don't think Nairo came across as bad as many had have suggested. Lacking in communication most certainly but not a bad guy.
On the whole and yes it's hard to argue consistent team awards at GT's but tactically and for focus that team is a mess. Losing concentration as the DS with your leader in the TT of a GT is un-forgivable. I can forgive the rider as he's enough to deal with but the DS in the car should be calling out everything well in advance. The fact that they missed the corner screams a lack of focus. I know I could be countered here saying you cheery picked one but here for contrast is Matt White doing the TT in the TdF with a man in about 150th place. Look at the calls, the calmness, the directions and the information difference here than with Movistar.
https://youtu.be/9mh9USnsHN0?t=1420 -
I watched it over the weekend and if I'm honest I thought it was quite poor. Here have lots of arty shots of lamp shades shoes on the floor. Content wise was quite minimal and the jumping around made it almost unwatchable at times. I think it benefited massively from the content drought at the moment. We've no cycling so anything cycling related is "amazing". If this was shown during a normal cycling season I think peoples reactions to it would be different.
For anyone that saw say the Paul Kimmage doc there was more content in that in 1 hour than this would have in 3 seasons at the current rate. One 6 minute episode of Mitchelton Scott BSP covers more than two episodes.
I don't think Nairo came across as bad as many had have suggested. Lacking in communication most certainly but not a bad guy.
On the whole and yes it's hard to argue consistent team awards at GT's but tactically and for focus that team is a mess. Losing concentration as the DS with your leader in the TT of a GT is un-forgivable. I can forgive the rider as he's enough to deal with but the DS in the car should be calling out everything well in advance. The fact that they missed the corner screams a lack of focus. I know I could be countered here saying you cheery picked one but here for contrast is Matt White doing the TT in the TdF with a man in about 150th place. Look at the calls, the calmness, the directions and the information difference here than with Movistar.
https://youtu.be/9mh9USnsHN0?t=142
Paul Kimmage, a cyclist ,going ape **** in his camper van ,complaining like a typical driver ,about cyclists, going up a big mountain ,with THOUSANDS of walkers and cyclists Cycling up , to catch a cycling race , was tv gold on its own . It was hilarious
A great documentary by a man who is clearly bitter about the past, understandably , but yet, clearly still in love with the sport, even if he tries to deny it . people forget what a top amateur rider Kimmage was and how bloody hard it is to get in a pro team with all the politics and coming from a cycling backwater like Ireland and being expected to be another Seán Kelly or young Stephen Roach pre 1987
His poor wife ...
Then Kimmage got the savage bit with Chris Froome. Mrs Kimmage thinks he’s lovely, Paul clearly has doubts but is willing to give a benefit of the doubt. Then at the press conferences , unknowing to the BRITISH journalists ,who had asked Froome about doping at the press conference , Paul managed to get gold - gold ,showing the same British journalists stand outside the conference hall and APOLOGISE to Froome, for doing their job . No wonder Lance got away with it ,sure his biggest fan boy was the great Phil Ligget (compromised by working for NBC ?)
That must have pissed off Kimmage as a serious journalist . It made the British journalists look so bad. No wonder Paul falls out with his colleagues so much if journalism is about the truth and hunting for it .(trying not to have a dig at David Walsh ala Sky fan boy period )
Even Froome must have thought “Christ ,get away from me before people see this” , he’d have been as shocked as Kimmage probably was getting it on tape .
As for Movistar doc
No, spot on about the DS guys. The Giro management was a joke . Utter joke. Felt for Landa there . It’s almost like Carpaz won the Giro IN SPITE of his team . It’s a pivotal time and your ds lets you down big time . Sure he might be lovely and huggable compared to the head case they had at TDF who got exposed for being out of his Depth at the Vuelta ..but come on
Balls balls balls ,vamos, vamos
(Remember in the Giro ,the monumental cock up from Lotto sourdel in the time trial, where the recent 1 hour record holder couldn’t even get a bloody proper push from his team when he had to change bikes, actually check out the really good piece that a Bradley Wiggins did for his euro sport podcast about that incident and what a cyclist wants and expects from his team car with regard to talking etc )
Jesus , the title of the documentary said it all . They never expected Carpaz, who already had a fourth place at the Giro to win . No wonder he decked off .
Being non Spanish , and the clear jealous and childishness of someone like Soller , you could never trust your Spanish team mates to help you if one of them was also doing well . Even Valverde ! Lol. As some of us noticed, he was pretty good for not being able to hear the radio or a team mate call for a gel or help when it suited.
Imagine Carpaz fresh from a Giro And motoring well for GC for the Vuelta and he’d have one up on the lad from Jumbo Visma who had cleaned up between Feb to just before the Giro. But Valverde , still reigning world champ and recent winner of the Spanish National title ,is also sneaking up the table ..... Greg Lemond vs Le Badger times 10
Oh, and don’t forget, Nario was also in the mix ,so there’s no chance that Carpaz would be allowed to win if fresh and if clearly the strongest out of the three .
The ds would screw it up so bad that all three would fail . Soller even got screwed a bit, but he was suppose to be there for Nario and kicked up a strop for not being allowed to go. First the ds are roaring at him for going too fast and wait for Nario. Nario is struggling a bit but won’t tell them, then they scream at Soller to ignore the last instruction and ride on . He was called all sorts of names from guys who frankly, did **** all during their careers as riders . How non of the riders didn’t slap their ds lords knows, probably too tired and weak to do it
It’s good that this came out. Many of just surely had wtf moments during the last TDF . We see now that the big 3 ,regardless of your views on them, ain’t to blame .0 -
Not to gate crash but whare are some recommended cycling documentaries, films etc. please?
Thanks,
Pa.0 -
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Not to gate crash but whare are some recommended cycling documentaries, films etc. please?
Thanks,
Pa.
There's one about the Orica-Scott team on Prime that's very good, particularly if you're into food because it interweaves the chef's journey through the countryside looking for produce with the TdF stuff.0
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