Restriction questions - the Megathread

Wibbs

lawred2 wrote: »

I said in deadly quantities. That fact remains true.

The fraction of a second that you're passing by someone isn't going to put you at much risk

Actually L, it is not a fact. We quite simply don't know the level of risk at this stage. We don't know what constitutes "deadly quantities". Never mind that this virus is only deadly for a minority. We don't know what amount of viral load will cause an infection, or how far it actually travels before that risk drops to near zero.

Like you L I personally don't consider it a risk worth worrying too much about*, but that's a feeling, it is not a fact.





*and I mask up outdoors anyway, so there's that.

kowloonkev

machiavellianme wrote: »

You do realise that 2m apart isn't a guarantee for anything? It's a finger in the air, least worst regrets guesstimate to minimise risk. Airborne particles can still travel further on the wind etc.

My parents are vulnerable. They are locked in the house and don't come out. Given how far they are from others (1.9km by road from another 1 off dwelling) they shouldn't see anyone. They could theoretically enjoy their garden but for the clowns running and cycling past, spitting and huffing and puffing as they go by, breaking the rules.

Sorry but sounds like you and/or your parents have lost the plot completely. They don't go to their garden because someone occasionally cycles by? This is like something from a Joseph Heller novel.

eddie73

God yeah its like drink on good Friday back in the day re getting out and exercising. All of a sudden everyone is doing it, those that never did it before especially so.

But as many have already stated, so long as people are not going around in a herd, it is fair enough. Simple etiquette should get us through this. Runners giving wide berth to those they meet. Not running at all in areas that there is no room to give wide berth.

Actually, people using their cop on. If a place is busy, turn and go home ffs!

The amount of people that complain about not having social distancing space in an area they are walking in is noticeable. They are part of the problem too if that is the case.

I go out every day, but I always did. I go places near my house, at a time of day that is quiet. Once I saw it busier than normal and turned and went home.

Same with shopping. If the car park is busy, go home and come back. Common sense will win the day here.

normanoffside

Tickers wrote: »

You do know there’s a global pandemic outside right?

It’s mostly inside actually.

Wibbs

ShyMets wrote: »

I have to go into the office later on (I'm essential services) but Jesus reading this thread I nearly feel bad about leaving the house.

Don't S. I'm a part of the essential services thing too, though it's a sporadic need in my case. I observe distancing, don't cross thresholds, because I don't need to and am careful about the risks of me unknowingly passing the virus on(which personally worries me more than catching it TBH). I feel zero badness or guilt over when I do have to go out and neither should you S.

User142

When you move away from the the frontline of this pandemic , its just introverts and ridiculously paranoid people taking the opportunity to give out to everyone.

People trying to get others to justify going outside for a walk, run or cycle now in their local now. Christ.

Wibbs

eddie73 wrote: »

Not running at all in areas that there is no room to give wide berth.

Actually, people using their cop on. If a place is busy, turn and go home ffs!

The amount of people that complain about not having social distancing space in an area they are walking in is noticeable. They are part of the problem too if that is the case.

I go out every day, but I always did. I go places near my house, at a time of day that is quiet. Once I saw it busier than normal and turned and went home.

Same with shopping. If the car park is busy, go home and come back. Common sense will win the day here.

Well ahead of you Ed. If I see a shop car park jammers I don't go in. It's pretty simple, though not so simple for the simple, if some places are any judge.

ThewhiteJesus

Tickers wrote: »

Mental health is the new get out of jail card.

This is why people still cannot talk about mental health.

Wibbs

User142 wrote: »

When you move away from the the frontline of this pandemic , its just introverts and ridiculously paranoid people taking the opportunity to give out to everyone.

People trying to get others to justify going outside for a walk, run or cycle now in their local now. Christ.

Pretty much U. It's not a good time for the introverted OCD paranoid type of personality at all. Though more excuses not to go out and deal with people, which I feel some want to extend to the wider world.

I simply look at levels of risk and adjust accordingly. Joggers and walkers doing the distancing thing are waaaaay down on that list. Damn near at the bottom.

statto25

eddie73 wrote: »

God yeah its like drink on good Friday back in the day re getting out and exercising. All of a sudden everyone is doing it, those that never did it before especially so.

The increase in joggers is mostly down to sports teams not being allowed collective training. To keep up fitness they have taken to the roads and paths. It was always going to be the case once training sessions were banned

niallo27

seasidedub wrote: »

Been reading/watching stories of Jewish people during ww2 who stayed hidden for up to 18 months with entire families in 1 room, filthy, covered in lice and using a pail for elimination which was removed once a day, if, by the people hiding them. No netflix, lack of food etc.

I know it's hard, but we can do this. Walk 20km a day in a loop if you want, read, watch tv, have sex, do yoga - whatever. But we can do it. I know it's easier for say, me, as I live practically on a beach, I get that. Hard if you live in a built up area. But we can do it.

If people want to take that line, comparing it to WW2 then why not just stay inside your house until a vaccine comes, if entire families can stay hidden for 18 months during WW2 then why cant families just watch netflix for the next 18 months now. Its impossible get this if you do not go out and wash everything that comes in.

plodder

machiavellianme wrote: »

You do realise that 2m apart isn't a guarantee for anything? It's a finger in the air, least worst regrets guesstimate to minimise risk. Airborne particles can still travel further on the wind etc.

There are no guarantees for anything - only expert advice and rules and regulations to implement it. Wind disperses airborne particles. When the experts say the risk of contracting it passing someone outdoors is negligible, that's what I'm going to believe.

My parents are vulnerable. They are locked in the house and don't come out. Given how far they are from others (1.9km by road from another 1 off dwelling) they shouldn't see anyone. They could theoretically enjoy their garden but for the clowns running and cycling past, spitting and huffing and puffing as they go by, breaking the rules.

Your concern is understandable, but if they are really that far from other people they have little to worry about.

As a runner though, I'll say this. Apart from the actual rules, the 2m separation etc, I think running should be done at an easy pace when near other people. Runners should always make the bigger effort to make the separation too. Spitting and gobbing etc is completely out of order. But, there should be some understanding too and accommodation from people out walking, eg single file, make space to allow people to pass you. Also, when people break the rules it might not be intentional. Call them out but do it calmly and in a non-confrontational way. This situation is new for everyone.

Pauliedragon

My GP actively encouraged me to get out walking during this crisis as I've been doing for years so I'll take the advice of a medical professional over an anonymous person on the internet who as far as I'm aware might not have any medical qualifications.

storker

lalababa wrote: »

With all the consumer capitalistic forever achieving economic growth, 50+ years of TV + advertising and virtue signalling and Facebook pic posts and Instagram /social media, there is a view of an 'ideal life' being formed resulting in pressure to achieve/conform/be relevant leading to low self esteem and dissafaction , where any little abberation to this ideal can be viewed as a mental health issue or actually leads to one.
With all our so called liberal and progressive new found attitudes I find society is marginalizing individuals of abberation. The old 'characters' are quickly dissapearing and the new ones are either doped up on Prozac/benzos/etc to make them 'fit in'. A new and very fruitful industry.....you can't tidy your room/get good grades/progress in your career/do the charity run/make more money etc......you must have mental health issues.....
My God when I think of the characters of old ......��

It's an interesting point, even more so regarding children. In my school days we didn't have kids with ADHD or kids with Aspergers etc, we just had "loud kids" and "quiet kids". It seems that these days (anecdotal evidence alert!) the definition of "normal" has been narrowed to a huge degree, with anything falling outside the band deemed as abnormal and "requiring intervention". Often with drugs.

Against that attitude, of course, is that fact that our knowledge of the human mind is increasing all the time. allowing us to understand certain behaviours and have insights we didn't have before. Discoveries in psychology don't tend to be announced with much fanfare so often we're unaware that there's science behind some the approaches we might be inclined to roll our eyes at.

The "Quick! Intervene!" attitude seems to be just as bad with parents themselves as with clinicians and the authorities. I was reading a discussion on Mumsnet. I'd been led there because I was looking up "skipping" - the locomotive kind without a rope - which our then Jr Infants age daughter had just started to engage in - interested to learn the science behind it. There wasn't much except that the consensus was that unhappy kids don't skip. What disturbed me somewhat, though was a discussion of a post describing a twelve-year-old girl who could still be seen skipping down the street. There were plenty fo responses along the line of "so what, she'll grow out of it" and "let a kid be a kid", but there were also plenty along the lines of "something wrong there" and "this needs to be looked into". :rolleyes:

storker

Wibbs wrote: »

Pretty much U. It's not a good time for the introverted OCD paranoid type of personality at all

If you're just a common-or-garden introvert, though, it's great.

PatrickSmithUS

This is a uniquely Irish phenomenon. If we're told to do something then, in the vast majority of cases, we don't want to do it.



There's some exceptions like not making noise when a someone is taking a kick in rugby or saying the Rosary repeatedly when someone passes away.



I was told that in Germany they're testing people to see if they've the anti bodies or not. If you don't have them you can go about your business and if you do you must self isolate.



I could see it working here because there's no way half the people would stay in if everyone else is out enjoying their lives.

Sono Topolino

Do you know what's doing my mental health in?

The fact that I cannot go out an buy groceries and medicine for my family without some terrorist in jogging pants spraying potentially infectious droplets in my face. I lie awake at night in fear that I may have contracted this disease and already passed it on to immunosuppressed members of my household.

This ain't a joke. I'm not laughing. I'm living in Rathmines, which is a fairly densely populated area by Irish standards and the main street has really narrow footpaths and it's not conducive to social distancing. Now if I was living in the back arse of beyonds (where I would love to be right now), I would have no problem with people exercising.

City and county councils should have the power to issue further restrictions. Dublin is the most infected places in the country, because of the population density among other factors. It needs a firmer hand than, say, Westmeath or Monaghan.

niallo27

Who are all these runners spitting and gobbing or whatever words they want to use when passing people. When i pass someone i pretend as if this is no bother to me and then i go back panting for air when they are out of sight.

Antares35

shocksy wrote: »

I agree with you. The obsession with mental health in this country in recent times has gone out of control. If someone can't stay inside for a couple of weeks without developing mental health issues then there was already something seriously wrong with them prior to the lockdown.

Sure there are people on here saying we shouldnt have restrictions at all because "far more" people will kill themselves if they suffer economically than will die if we let the virus take its course.

lawred2

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually L, it is not a fact. We quite simply don't know the level of risk at this stage. We don't know what constitutes "deadly quantities". Never mind that this virus is only deadly for a minority. We don't know what amount of viral load will cause an infection, or how far it actually travels before that risk drops to near zero.

Like you L I personally don't consider it a risk worth worrying too much about*, but that's a feeling, it is not a fact.





*and I mask up outdoors anyway, so there's that.

ok maybe not fact

but there's little evidence for it and analysts can't reach any level of agreement on how much of a threat...

that to me means that the threat is very small to the point of being negligible.. If there was solid evidence beyond supposition it would be in hand by now.

niallo27

PatrickSmithUS wrote: »

This is a uniquely Irish phenomenon. If we're told to do something then, in the vast majority of cases, we don't want to do it.



There's some exceptions like not making noise when a someone is taking a kick in rugby or saying the Rosary repeatedly when someone passes away.



I was told that in Germany they're testing people to see if they've the anti bodies or not. If you don't have them you can go about your business and if you do you must self isolate.



I could see it working here because there's no way half the people would stay in if everyone else is out enjoying their lives.

Shouldn't that be the opposite.

eddie73

statto25 wrote: »

The increase in joggers is mostly down to sports teams not being allowed collective training. To keep up fitness they have taken to the roads and paths. It was always going to be the case once training sessions were banned

Agreed, I see that. I have nothing against anyone exercising provided they use a bit of the aforementioned cop on.

Same for those who are complaining about people going out for exercise when they themselves are out too.

As for the good Friday analogy and everyone suddenly wanting to get out, I would widen the argument farther than joggers to a more general 'get out'. its unlikely anyone will suddenly take up jogging now that hasn't done so. But mind you, nothing would surprise me when it comes to a certain type of person.

suicide_circus

I assumed that the mental health impact of restrictions would be that people can't take it anymore and start breaking the rules.

I didn't foresee that people would start to lose it and set about creating additional rules off their own bat and then apply them to the wider community.

Wibbs

niallo27 wrote: »

If people want to take that line, comparing it to WW2 then why not just stay inside your house until a vaccine comes, if entire families can stay hidden for 18 months during WW2 then why cant families just watch netflix for the next 18 months now. Its impossible get this if you do not go out and wash everything that comes in.

Actually we could stop this virus in about two weeks. If everyone stayed away from everyone else for that two weeks across the world. Hardly practical mind you.

beauf

Tickers wrote: »

I have never seen so much pedestrian traffic in my life. Everyone out and about going for a walk, take away coffee, pushing the stroller, walking the dog, kids in toe.

We couldn’t get people out of the house and now there is a restriction we can’t keep them in!

...

Maybe because you've not been out before to see them.

I assume the OP is now taking their own advice and complaints onboard and is staying inside?

Maybe in a couple of weeks they can come back and update us all on how easy it is to do nothing.

sydthebeat

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually we could stop this virus in about two weeks. If everyone stayed away from everyone else for that two weeks across the world. Hardly practical mind you.

That's exactly what south Africa are doing

lawred2

PatrickSmithUS wrote: »

This is a uniquely Irish phenomenon. If we're told to do something then, in the vast majority of cases, we don't want to do it.



There's some exceptions like not making noise when a someone is taking a kick in rugby or saying the Rosary repeatedly when someone passes away.



I was told that in Germany they're testing people to see if they've the anti bodies or not. If you don't have them you can go about your business and if you do you must self isolate.



I could see it working here because there's no way half the people would stay in if everyone else is out enjoying their lives.

well that's obviously wrong

niallo27

sydthebeat wrote: »

That's exactly what south Africa are doing

What about people in hospitals, food, power, communication.

Wibbs

sydthebeat wrote: »

That's exactly what south Africa are doing

It'll be interesting to see how they get on with that. When this is all over it'll be interesting to see how different approaches worked in actual practical terms and what to do the next time this kinda pandemic kicks off. I suspect though we'll be waiting a goodly while for that to happen again. Fifty years type timeframe. This is a very unusual event.