Restriction questions - the Megathread

shaveAbullock

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Is there a way to stop that? Well - you could have a garda sat there, demanding your name and address. AFAICR, you have to give your details to a garda when requested?

I believe that a Garda must be investigating a crime to legally demand name and address.
They will often ask for it and in most cases people will give their details willing even if not legally required to do so.

Quazzie

shaveAbullock wrote: »

I believe that a Garda must be investigating a crime to legally demand name and address.

Have you anything to back this up other that facebook videos?

shaveAbullock

Quazzie wrote: »

Have you anything to back this up other that facebook videos?

Citizens information

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/arrests/questioning_and_surveillance.html

Most of the powers given to the Gardaí to stop and question members of the public are set out in law (known as statutory powers). There are, however, a number of instances where a Garda is entitled to stop and question you where no statutory power exists. This is known as a common law power.

An example of this would be where a Garda observes you acting suspiciously late at night, in an area where a lot of crimes are being committed. The Garda is entitled to stop you in order to detect and prevent crime. You are under no legal obligation to co-operate with the Garda and the Garda cannot use force to restrain your freedom under common law, short of arresting you.

However, if the Garda has reasonable grounds for suspecting that you committed an offence, the Garda can use a statutory power to demand your name and address. If you refuse to provide them, then the Garda can arrest you.

So there is laws that cover them on demanding a name but it has to be part of an invistigation.

SouthWesterly

What's the max distance we can travel on 18 may?

SouthWesterly

SouthWesterly wrote: »

What's the max distance we can travel on 18 may?

20km unless necessary I think.

MrDavid1976

questionmark? wrote: »

Not yet it appears but it's under consideration. Bear in mind that no new legislation can be passed until a new government is formed.

I would question whether such legislation would be constitutional.

Benimar

SouthWesterly wrote: »

What's the max distance we can travel on 18 may?

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

20km unless necessary I think.

Still 5k, until June 8th

shaveAbullock

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

20km unless necessary I think.

Everyone should read the roadmap, it doesn't take long
https://assets.gov.ie/73722/ffd17d70fbb64b498fd809dde548f411.pdf

The distance is extended to 20km as part of phase 2 on 8th June.

seablue

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

20km unless necessary I think.

The increase to 20km doesn't start until June 8th, phase 2.

shaveAbullock

shaveAbullock wrote: »

Everyone should read the roadmap, it doesn't take long
https://assets.gov.ie/73722/ffd17d70fbb64b498fd809dde548f411.pdf

The distance is extended to 20km as part of phase 2 on 8th June.

Yeah sorry, I did know that, just had a complete brain fart with the date.

That said, at 23 pages there’s not a hope in hell I could read all that. That’s what here and Twitter are for.

shaveAbullock

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Yeah sorry, I did know that, just had a complete brain fart with the date.

That said, at 23 pages there’s not a hope in hell I could read all that. That’s what here and Twitter are for.

The table, page 6 - 13 is the most usful part.

Marcusm

shaveAbullock wrote: »

I believe that a Garda must be investigating a crime to legally demand name and address.
They will often ask for it and in most cases people will give their details willing even if not legally required to do so.

shaveAbullock wrote: »

Citizens information

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/arrests/questioning_and_surveillance.html



So there is laws that cover them on demanding a name but it has to be part of an invistigation.

The emergency measures regulations introduced under the Health Act 1947 give gardai the power to demand names and addresses if they believe you are not at your place of residence. Failure to provide these can trigger a power of arrest. All of this is not currently being used on a widespread basis.

TaurenDruid

Marcusm wrote: »

The emergency measures regulations introduced under the Health Act 1947 give gardai the power to demand names and addresses if they believe you are not at your place of residence. Failure to provide these can trigger a power of arrest. All of this is not currently being used on a widespread basis.

So, worst case, they need to station guards at all the ports and airports and have them issue the "where are you self-isolating?" forms. And do spot checks. with well-publicised arrests/fines. That should get most of the last 30% complying. It's shocking that that many can't/won't just fill in the form properly. Do they not get it protects them, too? Like if, say, someone on their flight was infected?

shaveAbullock

Marcusm wrote: »

The emergency measures regulations introduced under the Health Act 1947 give gardai the power to demand names and addresses if they believe you are not at your place of residence. Failure to provide these can trigger a power of arrest. All of this is not currently being used on a widespread basis.

For the most part it's looking at someones drivers licence which they can demand to see anyway without emergancy measures.
If they were enforcing the emergancy measures then there wouldn't see things like the gatherings outside the four courts recently.

nj27

Would I be likely to be turned around if I were to meet a friend in Stephen's Green for a coffee? He's 5 northside of it and I'm 5k south but if we meet in the middle I can claim to be going for a walk?

shaveAbullock

nj27 wrote: »

Would I be likely to be turned around if I were to meet a friend in Stephen's Green for a coffee? He's 5 northside of it and I'm 5k south but if we meet in the middle I can claim to be going for a walk?

Turned around? Probably not, depending on your mode of transport. If walking chances are low.
Guidelines say not to meet people from outside your household like this but it changes to being ok on Monday. But you do have to stay outside while with your friend.

Speakerboxx

seablue wrote: »

The increase to 20km doesn't start until June 8th, phase 2.

We will all be breaking that after the 18th May.

Gael23

shaveAbullock wrote: »

Turned around? Probably not, depending on your mode of transport. If walking chances are low.
Guidelines say not to meet people from outside your household like this but it changes to being ok on Monday. But you do have to stay outside while with your friend.

Have never seen or heard of Pedestrians being stopped by guards

Poor_old_gill

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

if I go to Germany in July as planned, my understanding based on the court case there and EU fundamental freedoms I will not be required to quarantine. On my return will I be required to quarantine? If yes, is there a legal base?

If you're being told that self-isolating after leaving the country is best practice - would you not just do it rather than looking for ways to be pointlessly pedantic about stuff?

GazzaL

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

If you're being told that self-isolating after leaving the country is best practice - would you not just do it rather than looking for ways to be pointlessly pedantic about stuff?

Our neighbours welcome us with open arms, yet you expect us to lock ourselves in a room for 2 weeks on return to our own country?

It is a disaster for business travel. How are businesses meant to function if people have to lock themselves up under threat of arrest on return to Ireland?

Poor_old_gill

GazzaL wrote: »

Our neighbours welcome us with open arms, yet you expect us to lock ourselves in a room for 2 weeks on return to our own country?

It is a disaster for business travel. How are businesses meant to function if people have to lock themselves up under threat of arrest on return to Ireland?

I dont expect you to do anything other than follow the advice given by people who know a lot more about the medical profession than you or I.

I know its a disaster for business and would very much like things to get back to normal asap but I just dont get why people can't take an instruction on things and why the first inclination is to always, smugly, look for some way to engage in non compliance.

If you're asked to do it and informed that, at the moment, this is the best approach - then rather than looking for loopholes, could you not just do it?

On the business side of things - the majority of travel can be alleviated by calls for now - I had calls yesterday with a bank I deal with in the UK & in Prague.

GazzaL

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

I dont expect you to do anything other than follow the advice given by people who know a lot more about the medical profession than you or I.

I know its a disaster for business and would very much like things to get back to normal asap but I just dont get why people can't take an instruction on things and why the first inclination is to always, smugly, look for some way to engage in non compliance.

If you're asked to do it and informed that, at the moment, this is the best approach - then rather than looking for loopholes, could you not just do it?

On the business side of things - the majority of travel can be alleviated by calls for now - I had calls yesterday with a bank I deal with in the UK & in Prague.

Sorry for not blindly following an organisation that couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, that is plagued by scandal after scandal. Some business travel is essential, and we're going against our neighbours with the proposed restrictions.

GazzaL

GazzaL wrote: »

Sorry for not blindly following an organisation that couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, that is plagued by scandal after scandal.

You mean this part of the restrictions doesn’t suit you so it’s all a big mess now. Was grand when it was just hindering other people.

Poor_old_gill

GazzaL wrote: »

Sorry for not blindly following an organisation that couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, that is plagued by scandal after scandal. Some business travel is essential, and we're going against our neighbours with the proposed restrictions.

Blindly following? The use of petulant, childish language probably says enough about how you will behave.

If you know better than the countries medical professionals than good on you.

Also the part about going against our neighbours - if you are referring to the UK then I am happy to not be following their lead on this, if you are referring to some continental countries then the likelihood is that they have much better services in place to deal with outbreaks.

Essentially what is going on here is that you are being asked to do something relative to the conditions in this country, regarding public health, by medical professionals and you think that you know better and should do what you want.

What's worse is you think that this is a reasonable approach

Poor_old_gill

GazzaL wrote: »

Sorry for not blindly following an organisation that couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, that is plagued by scandal after scandal. Some business travel is essential, and we're going against our neighbours with the proposed restrictions.

Also the main reason why "a pissup in a brewery" is so hard to organise in Ireland is because the minute a public health direction is given - the first thing a large cohort of society think about is weasling out of it.

The whole thing then falls apart - your attitude towards this is the reason why brewerys are bereft of pissups, you almost couldn't write the irony

GazzaL

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

You mean this part of the restrictions doesn’t suit you so it’s all a big mess now. Was grand when it was just hindering other people.

I've been critical of a number of areas. I'm thinking about other people, not just myself. The "STAY AT HOME!!!" mob are quick to jump on anyone who dares criticise things, like those who were crowing about Elon Musk being an evil billionaire, who clearly didn't listen to a word he said.

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Blindly following? The use of petulant, childish language probably says enough about how you will behave.

If you know better than the countries medical professionals than good on you.

Also the part about going against our neighbours - if you are referring to the UK then I am happy to not be following their lead on this, if you are referring to some continental countries then the likelihood is that they have much better services in place to deal with outbreaks.

Essentially what is going on here is that you are being asked to do something relative to the conditions in this country, regarding public health, by medical professionals and you think that you know better and should do what you want.

What's worse is you think that this is a reasonable approach

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Also the main reason why "a pissup in a brewery" is so hard to organise in Ireland is because the minute a public health direction is given - the first thing a large cohort of society think about is weasling out of it.

The whole thing then falls apart - your attitude towards this is the reason why brewerys are bereft of pissups, you almost couldn't write the irony

The public have engaged with public health measures, R0 has been below 1 almost since the lockdown began, the HSE are the ones that have failed to hit targets that they set themselves. The HSE who have a litany of scandals and who are a failed organisation. If you think they are above questioning that's fair enough, but anyone with a bit of cop on will disagree with you.

They're opening up all over Europe at a faster rate. Why are we disgracing ourselves as the slow man of Europe? Why is it ok for us to destroy people socially and economically? Why is it ok for us to destroy hard won personal freedoms? Why is it ok for us to waste hundreds of millions of Euro keeping hospitals empty while people are suffering and not receiving treatment for non-COVID illnesses?

Poor_old_gill

Complying or not complying really is your decision but don't complain that people can't organise a "pissup in a brewery" if they give you an invite and directions on how to get there and you still don't bother to show up.

The last paragraph to your above post - is a bit Gemma o Doherty, worrying

GazzaL

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Complying or not complying really is your decision but don't complain that people can't organise a "pissup in a brewery" if they give you an invite and directions on how to get there and you still don't bother to show up.

The last paragraph to your above post - is a bit Gemma o Doherty, worrying

The HSE set a target of 100,000 tests per week at least 8 weeks ago and still haven't reached it. Did the invites get lost in the post?

No issue with paying hundreds of millions of Euro keeping hospitals empty while people are suffering and not receiving treatment for non-COVID illnesses?

Poor_old_gill

GazzaL wrote: »

The HSE set a target of 100,000 tests per week at least 8 weeks ago and still haven't reached it. Did the invites get lost in the post?

No issue with paying hundreds of millions of Euro keeping hospitals empty while people are suffering and not receiving treatment for non-COVID illnesses?

So your logic is akin to- ‘the gardai didn’t solve a crime so I don’t have to follow the law anymore’?

As I said- in the end it’s up to you what you do but you’re part of the problem it seems.

Also people are receiving treatment for non covid illness- my dad had a stroke 5 weeks ago and is receiving treatment.

You need to take it easy on the Gemma O Doherty conspiracy theories

vicwatson

GazzaL wrote: »

Call the Stasi and report them, comrade.


Or leave them to get on with their business.

Ridiculous statement