In your opinion, what does the future of Travel look like?

Snow Garden

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that people who enjoy city breaks go for Instagram and Facebook likes? Seriously are you are fuxking real?

Yes

Snow Garden

GazzaL wrote: »

How could you distinguish between someone traveling for a city break vs someone traveling on business?

There is no need to distinguish them, I don't understand your question. The increased cost of air travel will reduce the excessive travel. Business travel will also reduce as the use of webcon/webinar technologies increase in popularity. Obviously business travel will always be needed but an economic depression will force companies to cut costs there too. Business class fares were often subsidising the cheaper seats.

GazzaL wrote: »

Lots of people prefer city breaks to sun holidays and vice versa.

I said short city breaks. Perhaps people will do more long term city breaks where they fly to one city and travel by train to other cities during the same holiday.

Mister Vain

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that people who enjoy city breaks go for Instagram and Facebook likes? Seriously are you are fuxking real?

I'd say some of the younger people do, although it obviously wouldn't be the only reason for going.

Muahahaha

titan18 wrote: »

Yet they're lobbying EU to allow airlines give a one year voucher. Not being able to fly nearly all of that means they really need to sort their **** out.

Yeah the Irish govt has been lobbying the EU to change the rules on refunds. Likes of Ryanair basically want millions of short term loans from their passengers by not giving them a refund now but instead a voucher so that way their money remains with Ryanair.

EDit wrote: »

Looks totally unworkable IMO

Edit: that’s obviously ignoring the high likelihood that any design like this would not meet safety requirements. Imagine trying to do an emergency evacuation in the dark with all that Perspex around

Yeah it just looks like a sop to get airlines back flying at full capacity and no need to block off middle aisles. Lets not forget either that there was evidence on the bus in South Korea that the virus spread 6 metres between passengers, not just the two we are being advised to socially distance. Problem with flying is you are at close quarters with other passengers for at least two hours which is a lot longer than the 15 minutes it has been said it takes to for the virus to transfer between people.

Safety wise I couldnt see the aviation regulators allowing people to sit facing the back of the plane. In the event of a crash you're far more likely to break your neck facing backwards than forwards.

Sultan of Bling

Muahahaha wrote:

Safety wise I couldnt see the aviation regulators allowing people to sit facing the back of the plane. In the event of a crash you're far more likely to break your neck facing backwards than forwards.

There already is backward facing seats on planes.

DebDynamite

ShineOn7 wrote: »

I think it was mentioned already but I can see countries with similar levels of good control and similar R0 numbers opening back up to each other with no 14 day rule after



Australia and New Zealand are the biggest example of countries that will likely do this. What European countries might do it with each other?

I wouldn’t count on it. Australia and New Zealand kept their case numbers well down, the downside of that is the population have no immunity. I can’t see them opening up to allow probable spreaders in.

DebDynamite

Mortelaro wrote: »

That's expected to be a reality if you go to a proscribed high risk country
It's not going to be the case between Ireland and the UK

The UK *is* high risk

ZX7R

Snow Garden wrote: »

There was too much needless air travel. It was putting a massive strain on the environment for a start. It was consumerism gone mad. And travel itself was becoming less and less comfortable as airlines cut costs to the bone. Many tourist destinations were becoming so overcrowded with 'selfie' tourists that travel was losing it's sense of adventure (e.g. Paris, Venice, London) and people spent half their city break in queues.

Warren Buffet has dumped all his airline stocks. Many airlines will struggle to survive and travel will become much more expensive.

So your basically putting an argument forward about flights that has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

ZX7R

GazzaL wrote: »

How could you distinguish between someone traveling for a city break vs someone traveling on business? Lots of people prefer city breaks to sun holidays and vice versa.

Interestingly on France 24 news,they are introducing a mandatory two week of quarantine for all travelers , but also stated the business person's could avail of there tracing app that's too be introduced to allow more freedom of movement, this could also be used more widely for normal visitors in the near future

ShineOn7

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that people who enjoy city breaks go for Instagram and Facebook likes? Seriously are you are fuxking real?

Fairly seasoned traveller here. You'd be surprised how many 20 year olds go all the way to stunning waterfalls (for example), don't take in the moment, get their friend to take several pics with a fake smile (till they're happy that it looks good enough for the 'Gram) and then they promptly fúck off

They take nothing into their soul or memory. It's all for Instagram. I have easily seen a couple of hundred tourists like this

Hopefully there's less of them when we're allowed wander again

mandrake04

DebDynamite wrote: »

I wouldn’t count on it. Australia and New Zealand kept their case numbers well down, the downside of that is the population have no immunity. I can’t see them opening up to allow probable spreaders in.

I think you misunderstood.

I think ShineOn07 means that Australia and NZ will be open to travel between each other without quarantine.

This is a real possibility.

Micky 32

GazzaL wrote: »

It's human nature to want to explore the world. If someone wants to explore the Costa del Sol for a couple of weeks in the summer, who are you to tell them it's needless?

In my experience a lot of it is down to be begrudgery, some people can’t stand seeing people having a jet set lifestyle. Mark my words, maybe not this year but in the next year or 2 flying will gradually take off again. As for being more expensive i doubt it. Airlines will be trying get people flying again with cheap deals.

This would be a game changer for me, if was introduced more widely. I'd happily pay €190 for the test each time I was to travel between the UK and Ireland. It would be deterrent to people just on a short holiday, or family groups travelling for tourism etc, but would facilitate business people or else the many Irish people who have families and lives split across Ireland and the UK and have a real and urgent need to travel

https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2020/05/03/vienna-airport-offers-arrivals-covid-19-test-to-avoid-quarantine/

maestroamado

Micky 32 wrote: »

In my experience a lot of it is down to be begrudgery, some people can’t stand seeing people having a jet set lifestyle. Mark my words, maybe not this year but in the next year or 2 flying will gradually take off again. As for being more expensive i doubt it. Airlines will be trying get people flying again with cheap deals.

The bigger problem will be accommodation as there simply will not be places to sleep. I cannot see people wanting to return to them shoebox apartments on the costas. Would anyone want to sleep/eat in those places after this.
I think Airlines will be restricted until the accommodation thing sorted out.
It's difficult to know if fares go up but i expect they will, there will be less planes and even though they all be full the overheads be still there.

maestroamado

maestroamado wrote: »

It's difficult to know if fares go up but i expect they will, there will be less planes and even though they all be full the overheads be still there.

That should be offset by consolidation in the industry. The cost side can always be managed through industry re-organisation and I there'll be far fewer airlines after this has played out. The driver of fares I think will be on the revenue side - ie. what will the medically mandated distancing requirements mean for load factors

opinionated3

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This would be a game changer for me, if was introduced more widely. I'd happily pay €190 for the test each time I was to travel between the UK and Ireland. It would be deterrent to people just on a short holiday, or family groups travelling for tourism etc, but would facilitate business people or else the many Irish people who have families and lives split across Ireland and the UK and have a real and urgent need to travel

https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2020/05/03/vienna-airport-offers-arrivals-covid-19-test-to-avoid-quarantine/

So basically, air travel for the rich only??

opinionated3

opinionated3 wrote: »

So basically, air travel for the rich only??

No, air travel for those that have to. This isn’t for ever....only during a quarantine period.....and would ensure that travel is only those that have a need. It will be a deterrent to holidaymakers who, for now, we don’t want coming. And quarantine is always an option if you don’t want to get the test

kowloonkev

Micky 32 wrote: »

In my experience a lot of it is down to be begrudgery, some people can’t stand seeing people having a jet set lifestyle. Mark my words, maybe not this year but in the next year or 2 flying will gradually take off again. As for being more expensive i doubt it. Airlines will be trying get people flying again with cheap deals.

'Jet set lifestyle' is quite a description for people spending the price of the train from Dublin to Cork to go on a piss up in eastern Europe with a bit of light cabaret.

Snow Garden

Good article.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0503/1136348-flying-after-coronavirus/

Xertz

The only thing I would say is they’ll be a huge opportunity for airlines that do survive or new companies may emerge.

There’ll be loads and loads of brand new, parked up aircraft available at knock down prices.

Oil is extremely cheap.

I would suspect what you’ll see is a lot of existing carriers disappear and shrink but capacity coming back rapidly when it does. It just might not be the companies we’ve been used to.

I’d say you could be looking at some smaller airports struggling for a while though as capacity will go to where demand is highest.

That doesn’t necessarily mean Irish regional airports like say Cork will do badly as there’s huge demand on routes to say LHR, CDG, AMS and Spanish routes etc

The issue I suspect is you’ll find more obscure routes like the stuff operated by Stobart to smaller U.K. regional cities and so on taking a longer time to return to normal.

The other major change could be if things are under control in the EU / EEA more rapidly, holiday destination in places like Turkey, North Africa etc may take much longer to come back.

I could see a massive boom in tourism for European destinations like Spain and Portugal and even France as people will be worried about holidaying anywhere there’s a weak health system or uncontrolled COVID-19

If you look at some of the big European hubs like LHR, AMS, Frankfurt and CDG or Madrid that have networks reaching into less developed parts of the world, some of that travel may take a long time to return to normal, as you’ll have to have some kind of control of access from places where covid 19 hasn’t been suppressed.

While I’m optimistic the US will get a handle on this in the weeks and months ahead, we don’t know that yet and the politics over there has been basically insane in some regions. So if you have a situation where it’s controlled in Europe and still raging in the USA, I could see transatlantic traffic being difficult for a while too.
At the moment, unfortunately, the US isn’t really operating as you’d expect it to, so it’s just hard to predict what the roadmap might be.

Flights to and from Asia are probably going to be open sooner, assuming that Europe does actually get a grip on this fast.

Australia and NZ may not allow European or US flights for a long while yet though. So I would expect serious difficulties getting to either of those countries for a long time yet, as they’ve basically entered a “travel bubble” My guess is they are in no rush to reopen tourism as the benefits are outweighed by the risks.

Micky 32

Xertz wrote: »

The only thing I would say is they’ll be a huge opportunity for airlines that do survive or new companies may emerge.

There’ll be loads and loads of brand new, parked up aircraft available at knock down prices.

Oil is extremely cheap.

I would suspect what you’ll see is a lot of existing carriers disappear and shrink but capacity coming back rapidly when it does. It just might not be the companies we’ve been used to.

I’d say you could be looking at some smaller airports struggling for a while though as capacity will go to where demand is highest.

That doesn’t necessarily mean Irish regional airports like say Cork will do badly as there’s huge demand on routes to say LHR, CDG, AMS and Spanish routes etc

The issue I suspect is you’ll find more obscure routes like the stuff operated by Stobart to smaller U.K. regional cities and so on taking a longer time to return to normal.

The other major change could be if things are under control in the EU / EEA more rapidly, holiday destination in places like Turkey, North Africa etc may take much longer to come back.

I could see a massive boom in tourism for European destinations like Spain and Portugal and even France as people will be worried about holidaying anywhere there’s a weak health system or uncontrolled COVID-19

If you look at some of the big European hubs like LHR, AMS, Frankfurt and CDG or Madrid that have networks reaching into less developed parts of the world, some of that travel may take a long time to return to normal, as you’ll have to have some kind of control of access from places where covid 19 hasn’t been suppressed.

While I’m optimistic the US will get a handle on this in the weeks and months ahead, we don’t know that yet and the politics over there has been basically insane in some regions. So if you have a situation where it’s controlled in Europe and still raging in the USA, I could see transatlantic traffic being difficult for a while too.
At the moment, unfortunately, the US isn’t really operating as you’d expect it to, so it’s just hard to predict what the roadmap might be.

Flights to and from Asia are probably going to be open sooner, assuming that Europe does actually get a grip on this fast.

Australia and NZ may not allow European or US flights for a long while yet though. So I would expect serious difficulties getting to either of those countries for a long time yet, as they’ve basically entered a “travel bubble” My guess is they are in no rush to reopen tourism as the benefits are outweighed by the risks.

To be honest I wouldn’t be too worried about the airlines. Unfortunately for some posters and people who’d love to see otherwise , airlines will thrive again in the long term without doubt, it’s a huge market out there. Aviation is a huge contributor to the global economy.

TomSweeney

Sconsey wrote: »

There is an interesting study available to read here (not peer review or anything but still interesting data)...it looked at known cases of super spreaders of the virus, to identify the mode of transmission. It comes to the conclusion that parties/relegious events/sporting events are the main culprits. It also notes that there have been no reported cases of super spreaders from aeroplanes. I take from that, that aeroplanes are a relatively low risk place for contarcting the virus.
Well at least it looks like they are lower-risk than one would expect them to be.

Interesting.
I wonder, people on planes generally sit relatively still with their mouths closed breathing through their nose.


Religious ceremonies they sing they huddle, same as sporting events , lots of cheering shouting, hugging if goal/try/basket scored etc...


I know it's not a very scientfific analysis but still , food for thought ..

TomSweeney

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

Why rightly so?

Because it's unsustainable and ruining the environment, pushing locals out of cities like Venice, Lisbon, Barcelona etc



at least when travel returns it should be more eco-friendly, how to do that is another debate.


And I say this is someone who is dissapointed with a cancelled trip this summer.

TomSweeney

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

What this disaster has shown to me is there is an awful lot of zealots out there. It’ appears that They don’t want the pubs to open again they don’t want people to travel again they want to work at home and watch netflix in their space time sport should be banned also for some of them. Very very strange.

I hope to travel again this year and as soon as it’s possible to do so I will. I look forward to travel and seeing the world again.

It is weird alright, I do feel some are enjoying this.
I have a hint a lot of them don't get out much anyway and have about 3 desktop monitors on their desks along with a load of empty pringles packs,pizza boxes, bottles of beer etc ... and this they refer to as their COMMAND CENTER.

TomSweeney

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Fairly seasoned traveller here. You'd be surprised how many 20 year olds go all the way to stunning waterfalls (for example), don't take in the moment, get their friend to take several pics with a fake smile (till they're happy that it looks good enough for the 'Gram) and then they promptly fúck off

They take nothing into their soul or memory. It's all for Instagram. I have easily seen a couple of hundred tourists like this

Hopefully there's less of them when we're allowed wander again

There is national parks in the US being ruined by these types of morons that never would have gone to scenic places in the past, but now for social media they flood the places.

Un1corn

Just on the comments above about travel and the instagram generation. I fully agree with you. I know tonnes of people who travel just to post on Instagram. Especially people my age and younger. I am 30. Countless people flying around the world and spending up to 20 minutes to half an hour to get the perfect selfie. Then they upload the filtered photo and get the likes. It is definitely a thing. I really believe lots of people are travelling just to say they are travelling.

I was at the Grand Canyon in 2017. Chinese couple arrived. Got out of the bus. Put on the hiking gear boots and all kitted out. Took a selfie. Faked the sweat. Once they had the photo they were already gone. It is an extreme example but I saw it. You ask a lot of people under 30 where they were they can't tell you a thing about the country they visited.

With regard to business travel an awful lot of it is superflous. I flew to China myself 30 times for business between 2012 and 2015. It was great and we got business class but was it necessary? Only partially I would say. The problems we had in China were the time difference and the Chinese themselves wanted us onsite to do the work for them. That way if things went wrong they can blame us. We tried making decisions by video conference but it was always a problem because the Chinese didn't want to make decisions and dealing with them online became impossible.

But lots of travel was totally stupid. I had a colleague who once on a Monday afternoon at 14:00 got on a flight to Beijing. 06:00 in Tuesday he landed and 9am he was in the office. Did some meetings that day and already at 8pm that night he was on his was to the airport. Took the 1am flight Wednesday home and arrived in Frankfurt at 5am.

I think lots of business travel such as flying over to San Francisco for some conference while great fun isn't really necessary.

We should take this opportunity to really tackle the climate crisis and property crises all at once. If you can work from home you should. Commuting is a killer. If you can live further from work we can get cheaper property while saving the environment.

I love travel as much as the next man but we need to reconsider. Covid19 has highlighted to me how a huge amount of our economy is simply unnessesary nice to have frivelous nonsense promoted by instagram "influencers" We are gonna walk into an environmental crisis which will make todays crisis look like childsplay. Now is the time to act and we have been handed the opportunity on a plate. Now that the economy is stopped lets start it again correctly. If we wait and go back to normal we will not want to endure the pain of another shutdown.

otnomart

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Eh? What's going on here?

The article suggests a cabin redesign, so that seats may be spread among cargo

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeating/2020/05/01/people-may-be-spread-among-cargo-for-social-distancing-on-planes/

AdamD

Mister Vain wrote: »

I'd say some of the younger people do, although it obviously wouldn't be the only reason for going.

Ah of course, its the young people who are the problem.

Muahahaha

Un1corn wrote: »

Just on the comments above about travel and the instagram generation. I fully agree with you. I know tonnes of people who travel just to post on Instagram. Especially people my age and younger. I am 30. Countless people flying around the world and spending up to 20 minutes to half an hour to get the perfect selfie. Then they upload the filtered photo and get the likes. It is definitely a thing. I really believe lots of people are travelling just to say they are travelling.

The Insta thing is definitely real, Ive an Aussie mate who drives tour buses for the 18-35 market across Europe every summer and he was telling me of a look out spot in Santorini where tourists actually queue up for 30-45 minutes to take a selfie. Last summer he left two of them behind as they weren't back to the bus on time and he had a ferry to catch, the importance of their selfie cost them several hundred euro in a taxi to catch up with the bus. He's a pretty seasoned traveller and he's constantly rolling his eyes at the behaviour, these people dont even explore where they are, they just want the selfie for likes.

Its pretty sad really. When I backpacked across Asia/South America Id say 99% of the photos I took were of solely of scenery because why would I want to ruin a picture of a beautiful beach with my mug in it. Nowadays it seems people have to ruin a good photo by putting themselves in it.

Muahahaha

Social distancing at airports would mean kilometre-long queues to board each jumbo jet, Heathrow's chief executive has said. John Holland-Kaye warned the UK's major airports do not have enough space for social distancing to be a solution to safe travel after the coronavirus lockdown ends.


"Forget social distancing, it won't work in aviation or any other form of public transport, and the problem is not the plane, it is the lack of space in the airport," he wrote in the Daily Telegraph.
"Just one jumbo jet would require a queue a kilometre long."

Not sure why he is worried about the boarding queue in the airport when social distancing is basically impossible on the aircraft itself. An ex Aer Lingus pilot on RTE today said that even if you leave the middle seat free there still isnt even a metre between passangers dont mind two metres.