Countries returning faulty masks from China

skellig_rocks

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Sorry, I meant no one outside of China. There was no reliable confirmation on it.

Diamond Princess in Japan? That was big news while China was experiencing media cut-offs.

Alf Veedersane

skellig_rocks wrote: »

Diamond Princess in Japan? That was big news while China was experiencing media cut-offs.

Yeah but that's a completely different scenario to be fair. The conditions on a cruise ship more likely to facilitate transmission than normal life

skellig_rocks

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Yeah but that's a completely different scenario to be fair. The conditions on a cruise ship more likely to facilitate transmission than normal life

We have advantage of a crystal ball and we somehow failed to prepare -> prepare to fail

Alf Veedersane

skellig_rocks wrote: »

We have advantage of a crystal ball and we somehow failed to prepare -> prepare to fail

I'm not really sure that I'd use what happened on a cruise ship as a reflection on how it would pan out on land. The conditions and spread would be completely different.

I'm not saying they couldn't have acted sooner but acting on the basis of the Diamond Princess? Hardly. Easy to say they should have in hindsight

Xertz

skellig_rocks wrote: »

Maybe HSE/Irish Government don't want to embarrass China/questions Chinese products quality at Beijing warehouses. I assume HSE only opened the boxes after they arrived in Ireland.

They wouldn’t let the crew off the plane in Beijing. They’ve a two week quarantine for incoming foreign citizens. Although, I’m sure the HSE could hire a Chinese quality control team and deploy them locally.

The EU could also have a quality control unit in China as a shared service.

There are companies, notably in engineering areas who do technical procurement all the time and many of them are currently quiet due to the economic situation. They have staff on the ground in China who are actually Chinese and well capable of managing this.

skellig_rocks

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I'm not really sure that I'd use what happened on a cruise ship as a reflection on how it would pan out on land. The conditions and spread would be completely different.

I'm not saying they couldn't have acted sooner but acting on the basis of the Diamond Princess? Hardly. Easy to say they should have in hindsight

Share my experience...

I traveled to Tokyo for holiday on 10 January. On arrival at Haneda Airport I notice this sign:



So at least Japan is aware of the virus since early January.

Back to Ireland at end of January. Then I have to travel to Hong Kong on 1 February because of family emergency. I was a bit worried and worn masks during the 12 hours flight from London. However as soon as I arrive at Hong Kong, I noticed few things which reassured me about the handling by Hong Kong:

1) Everyone were wearing masks in public, both indoor and outdoor
2) Closed of schools
3) Public places, shopping centres, train stations, bus, etc. all cleaned every ten minutes with bleach.
4) Closing of most land border with mainland China
5) HK starts manufacturing masks
6) Strict quarantine of travelers with China travel history.
etc...

On way back to Ireland (10 February), temperatures were checked at Hong Kong Airport before I board the flight. Again masks were worn during the 12 hours flight. However no checks whatsoever when I arrived in Heathrow and Dublin. And I didn't wear mask on arrival in London and Dublin as I felt there were peer pressure against mask wearing. I was surprise there were no temperature checks, at the very least, at Heathrow and Dublin.

As a precaution I self-isolated for 2 weeks. So now I pretty much in self-isolated mode since mid-February:(. At least I have done my holiday (Japan) this year before this whole thing:)

PCeeeee

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I'm not sure the scale of need for PPE here would make an indigenous PPE manufacturing facility viable. I might be wrong on that but I just wouldn't think there is.

Maybe not but surely there are manufacturers with complimentary adjacencies.

stockshares

Apologies if this was posted before, I haven't read the latest posts cod I've been offline for a while. Just posting this before I forget to.

Article saying 9 out of 10 certificates produced for Ppe in China are fake.
https://twitter.com/danharris/status/1244273900449435649?s=19

https://www.chinalawblog.com/2020/03/buying-face-masks-and-other-ppe-from-china-not-for-the-faint-of-heart.html

Kivaro

By the way, for those who are saying we should leave it up to the HSE and not question anything here or anywhere else:

Part of the consignment of Personal Protective Equipment which was recently distributed to Covid-19 test centres, mobile ambulance units and hospitals is being described as "not fit for purpose" and "unusable" by medical staff.

stockshares

skellig_rocks wrote: »

Maybe HSE/Irish Government don't want to embarrass China/questions Chinese products quality at Beijing warehouses. I assume HSE only opened the boxes after they arrived in Ireland.

One of the lunchtime news bulletins on Rte quoted Paul Reid as saying they only checked the boxes Sunday night. I think it was the 2pm bulletin but not certain which one.

Xertz wrote: »

They wouldn’t let the crew off the plane in Beijing. They’ve a two week quarantine for incoming foreign citizens. Although, I’m sure the HSE could hire a Chinese quality control team and deploy them locally.

The EU could also have a quality control unit in China as a shared service.

There are companies, notably in engineering areas who do technical procurement all the time and many of them are currently quiet due to the economic situation. They have staff on the ground in China who are actually Chinese and well capable of managing this.

Given the seriousness of the Order could the Irish Ambassador in China not have requested a control check done by either Chinese or European Medical professionals.

It would have been in China and Ireland's best interests but particularly China because it's reputation is damaged now and it damaged the credibility of the Chinese Ambassador to Ireland.

RandomName2

skellig_rocks wrote: »

I still remember this RTE article on 7 February 2020, while China is in the middle of the lockdowns and Diamond Princess in Japan:


https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0206/1113607-coronavirus-hse/

www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/likelihood-of-case-of-coronavirus-emerging-in-ireland-quite-low

With experts like that, who needs fake news?

The coronavirus spread to France on 18th January, confirmed by the 24th January.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-france/coronavirus-patients-arrived-in-france-without-symptoms-idUSKBN1ZO0NB

We got an additional month to prepare. I tried purchasing a mask the last week of January but found that they were all already sold out online.

skellig_rocks

stockshares wrote: »

Given the seriousness of the Order could the Irish Ambassador in China not have requested a control check done by either Chinese or European Medical professionals.

It would have been in China and Ireland's best interests but particularly China because it's reputation is damaged now and it damaged the credibility of the Chinese Ambassador to Ireland.

Irish government will get similar answer from the Chinese Ambassador as follow:


https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/2511_665403/t1763695.shtml

China Daily: A couple of countries say the quick coronavirus test kits supplied by China are faulty and have produced inaccurate test results. What's your comment?

Hua Chunying: Many countries have recently been purchasing medical products in China. While satisfying domestic demands, we support export by companies with qualifications and credibility, and provide convenience in production, transport and customs clearance to facilitate foreign procurement and orderly exporting. Some countries raised purchasing demands via diplomatic channels, and we recommend qualified companies to the foreign buyers. As far as I know, we haven't received any complaints from the buyers about the products purchased via the above-mentioned channel.

Several countries raised doubts on the quality of products imported from China, to which our embassies responded at the earliest time possible.

For example, some Slovak officials questioned the reliability of the quick coronavirus test kits purchased from China. The Chinese embassy in Slovakia immediately contacted the manufacturer in China. They came to the preliminary conclusion that Slovak medical workers used these antigen test kits incorrectly with a preceding method applicable to nucleic acid testing, which led to the inaccurate results. Our embassy in Slovakia then issued a reminder on the correct use of different testing methods. Slovak foreign ministry thanked China for its help at a difficult time, appreciated China's assistance in exporting medical supplies to Slovakia, and expressed readiness to enhance cooperation and experience-sharing with China.

Also, in response to Philippine health official's remarks on the accuracy of China-provided aid of testing reagents, the health department made clarifications the other day that the test kits produce identical results with those provided by WHO, and that these quality products play an important role in the government's rapid response. It also expressed apology for the misunderstanding caused by relevant comments.

About the masks that the Netherlands claimed not meeting quality standards, after immediate contact and verification by the Chinese embassy, on the afternoon of March 29, Dutch officials told us that some of the masks purchased by Dutch agency companies are not suitable for medical workers in intensive care units, and the health department is consulting professionals to make sure whether these masks can be used by medical staff with less intensive protection requirements. The Dutch side thanked China for our support and help in its purchase and transport of Chinese medical supplies.

Indeed, many countries expressed their need to purchase medical products from China. A large number of Chinese manufacturers are working around the clock to help other countries save lives. Our sincerity and assistance is real. If problems occur in this process, the Chinese side will talk to relevant departments. Problems should be properly solved based on facts, not political interpretations. In fact, when we first began fighting COVID-19 at home, some of the assistance China received was defective, but we chose to believe and respect the kind intentions of these countries.

BTW, text in bold means:

RandomName2

skellig_rocks wrote: »

Irish government will get similar answer from the Chinese Ambassador as follow:


https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/2511_665403/t1763695.shtml

That's all well and good, but didn't our government spend 1/4 billion on these supplies or something like that? Even Ali Express would give a refund.

skellig_rocks

RandomName2 wrote: »

That's all well and good, but didn't our government spend 1/4 billion on these supplies or something like that? Even Ali Express would give a refund.

Will Irish Government request for refund? Will Leo ring Xi and ask for refund? Well I support it as it is all our taxpayer money, but someone just said China is too powerful and worry about damaging bilateral relationship.

Wibbs

Kivaro wrote: »

By the way, for those who are saying we should leave it up to the HSE and not question anything here or anywhere else:

You'd wonder what China's playing at. I can understand half arsed supplies going to the US, but China's been trying to influence other western nations on the China good policy. Makes no sense.

BanditLuke

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

+1

This total refusal to allow any criticism of China is bizarre. It's completely deserved. There's an entire thread dedicated to bashing the UK's response to coronavirus, but we're not allowed to criticise China?!

China deserve every bit of criticism coming it's way. An utterly vile regime that has brought the planet's economy to ruins and destroyed countless lives. There are people right now who can't even attend the funerals of loved ones who have died of this horrible virus and that blame sits right at the door of the CCP.

And as if that's not bad enough they are charging an arm and a leg for defective PPE nations desperately need to protect it's health workers who are directly in the line of fire from Covid19.

The people lost to this vicious virus can never be replaced but we can as a group of nations make sure the CCP pay a heavy price for their incompetence.

skellig_rocks

208 millions Euro worth of PPE / population of Ireland = 208,000,000 / 4,900,000 = 42 Euro person each in Ireland contribution to China. I really hope journalists will ask tough questions on this matter at the HSE press conference this evening. Especially how "China Resources" sourced their equipments

Balf

Wibbs wrote: »

You'd wonder what China's playing at. I can understand half arsed supplies going to the US, but China's been trying to influence other western nations on the China good policy. Makes no sense.

Could it be that there is simply a shortage of supply? So if you approach the Chinese they'll say "You want masks? Sure, we got masks."

I take it we wouldn't be sourcing from China if there was a supplier closer to home.

It strike me as just another aspect of the response being framed entirely by medical experts, without any real appreciation that there's a world out there that needs to be dealt with. So some space cadet of a doctor in France can do a calculation and say "we need 1 billion face masks", and the system has to try and source them regardless of whether delivering 1 billion face masks of the required kind is actually a practical option.

And in the middle of that, we send a good old Aer Lingus plane out to China, just specially to pick up the same kind of stuff. And it flies back with a crock of whatever.

And, in the background, we're (accordingly to the OECD) wiping out 15 to 25% of our national income. And, no, that's not just money. It's inflicting a huge human injury that will take years to recover from.

So, no, I'm not surprised that sending a plane out to China in a panic wasn't such a great idea. Any more than asking beauticians to send in their unused stock was a good idea.

Doctors, globally, getting a grip might be a good idea.

"I guess we won't be able to get gloves and masks for a while. So what do we do instead." There's a starting point.

thebaz

Deeply worrying, that ther seams to be problems with the Chinese PPE quality of goods - this quailty issue had been flagged earlier as happening in Spain and other European countrys, yet our Government had full faith in the Chinese goods :-
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fears-over-quality-of-personal-protective-equipment-delivered-to-ireland-from-china-39100646.html

My concern also is further down the line , when the state eventually runs out of money, that we might be forced to borrow from China - at what cost ?
Needs to be watched, and I'm sure other country including UK and US will also be forced to borrow , perhaps from China too - am I been paranoid ?

careless sherpa

thebaz wrote: »

Deeply worrying, that ther seams to be problems with the Chinese PPE quality of goods - this quailty issue had been flagged earlier as happening in Spain and other European countrys, yet our Government had full faith in the Chinese goods :-
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fears-over-quality-of-personal-protective-equipment-delivered-to-ireland-from-china-39100646.html

My concern also is further down the line , when the state eventually runs out of money, that we might be forced to borrow from China - at what cost ?
Needs to be watched, and I'm sure other country including UK and US will also be forced to borrow , perhaps from China too - am I been paranoid ?

Every country should borrow as much as possible from them and then tell them to fcuk off

stockshares

stockshares wrote: »

George Lee says Problem with delivery from China
https://twitter.com/GeorgeLeeRTE/status/1245777867104976906?s=19

Fergal bowers on topic
https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1245951292687757314?s=19

So Irish nurses are bigger than Chinese nurses?

Does that come as a shock to anyone?

Balf

thebaz wrote: »

Deeply worrying, that ther seams to be problems with the Chinese PPE quality of goods - this quailty issue had been flagged earlier as happening in Spain and other European countrys, yet our Government had full faith in the Chinese goods :-
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fears-over-quality-of-personal-protective-equipment-delivered-to-ireland-from-china-39100646.html

My concern also is further down the line , when the state eventually runs out of money, that we might be forced to borrow from China - at what cost ?
Needs to be watched, and I'm sure other country including UK and US will also be forced to borrow , perhaps from China too - am I been paranoid ?

I don't think you are being paranoid, in the sense that the situation is much as you say.

We've closed down large sections of our economy, so we've much less money. We've spend a large lump of that to buy ineffective protection - so we haven't eliminated the risk that we thought we were dealing with.

I think that's about as bad as it could it, isn't it?

thebaz

careless sherpa wrote: »

Every country should borrow as much as possible from them and then tell them to fcuk off

Ther will be a cost involved, I just worry what that cost will be - maybe I'm being paranoid, but needs to be watched, much like the initial order of PPE equipment, needed to be cautious.

beggars_bush

Surely there are factories in Ireland that could be used to make this equipment? Even if it takes 2/3 weeks to set it up

stockshares

beggars_bush wrote: »

Surely there are factories in Ireland that could be used to make this equipment? Even if it takes 2/3 weeks to set it up

It's being covered on Rte 1 radio now on drive time.

Some of the problems are with equipment provided by Irish suppliers also.

Balf

beggars_bush wrote: »

Surely there are factories in Ireland that could be used to make this equipment? Even if it takes 2/3 weeks to set it up

Strange to relate.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/limerick-firm-set-to-double-output-of-face-masks-amid-covid-19-fears-985868.html


Irema, a wholly owned Irish company, is busy recruiting new workers as it has to double output over the next week. ......

Irema exports most of its masks internationally to western Europe and the Middle East. It also sells to China which is finding it hard to keep up stocks from its own manufacturers.

Blub123

stockshares wrote: »

The Netherlands, Spain, Austria and Czech Republic have had problems with faulty masks and other equipment delivered from China.

Some are returning theirs
https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/262896058/600-000-mondkapjes-uit-china-afgekeurd-door-ministerie

Story is breaking on Twitter now.

Ireland is expecting a delivery from China today. I hope they work correctly.

See attached, apparently problems in Naas Hospital with items

Oops!

What a major **** up...... It would be funny if it wasn't so serous.

jrosen

I had read a comment made earlier in the week that the factories and manufactures that Ireland is using now and has used in the past are legit and there has been no issues with products before.

Id happily pay more for products made and manufactured in Ireland but there is a reason governments and people buy from abroad. Its because cheap labour allows for cheaper products and overall reduced spend for companies and individuals. We would need an entire change of behavior and a willingness to pay more.

Elmer Blooker

skellig_rocks wrote: »

208 millions Euro worth of PPE / population of Ireland = 208,000,000 / 4,900,000 = 42 Euro person each in Ireland contribution to China. I really hope journalists will ask tough questions on this matter at the HSE press conference this evening. Especially how "China Resources" sourced their equipments

Yes, lets hope some questions are asked about the quality of these Chinese masks, until I hear a high ranking HSE official state publicly that the quality is sub standard I will just presume its the usual anti China bias that the media is prone to.