Countries returning faulty masks from China

_Brian

You can’t blame China for much of the worlds Manufacturing capacity being there.

We happily exported our manufacturing capacity and then forced them to make it cheaper and cheaper, resulting in poorer working conditions and cheaper materials being used.

Everything has a minimum manufacturing cost and forcing prices down below that must cause corners to be cut.

Yes it was known that there were issues with some PPE wasn’t what EU standards were used to but what option is there ?? It’s either order that or get nothing and drive out death rates sky high. We’re literally scrambling with every other country for the same scarse resources.

Waiting two or three weeks to set up
Manufacturing here isn’t viable, the masks are needed now!, like right now and massive numbers that we couldn’t scale up to make for months.

We need to learn from this, we need to start seeing the value of having local supply rather than just wanting the cheapest of the cheap all the time. Believing something can be made cheaper and cheaper with the same or increased standards is stupidity yet that’s what we expect.

whisky_galore

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Yes, lets hope some questions are asked about the quality of these Chinese masks, until I hear a high ranking HSE official state publicly that the quality is sub standard I will just presume its the usual anti China bias that the media is prone to.

Let's not upset our Chinese overlords now. Let's phone them up and thank them for their unique standard PPE that HSE personnel aren't used to.

skellig_rocks

Let's not upset our Chinese overlords now. Let's phone them up and thank them for their unique standard PPE that HSE personnel aren't used to.

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1244930775390224385

thebaz

whisky_galore wrote: »

Let's not upset our Chinese overlords now. Let's phone them up and thank them for their unique standard PPE that HSE personnel aren't used to.

I have been pleasantly surprised mostly by how Leo has acted in this crisis - should have stopped flights from Italy weeks ago, but wonder will he regret this tweet he posted just this week :-

Spoke to Chinese Premier Li Keqiang this morning to thank China for sending essential medical supplies. Further shipments are on their way. Ireland has offered to help China in research and maintain close contact to #FlattenTheCurve

tonysopprano

All staff were ordered 2 weeks ago to be clean shaven in order to fit masks (N95 or FPP3)that we are not supplied with. We only have a very limited supply of surgical masks

All staff ordered to wear short-sleeved shirts or roll-up sleeves on long-sleeved shirts but not supplied with long (or even 3/4) sleeved gowns only flimsy aprons to wear over shirts.

Only 1 pair of shoe-protectors per 4 person team to attend cell opening or positive or symptomatic prisoners.

Gloves rationed as supply non-existent.

Disposable goggles/glasses are being cleaned and reused

No face-shields/screens available

Calhoun

If anything this really has shown the flaw in having factory countries and regions who produce things are very low cost at the expense of humans living in those countries.

Like it or not the relationship with China will sour over the whole virus and all these headlines of defective equipment.

Hopefully people wont be so stupid and take it out on people living here (again).

riffmongous

Calhoun wrote: »

If anything this really has shown the flaw in having factory countries and regions who produce things are very low cost at the expense of humans living in those countries.

Like it or not the relationship with China will sour over the whole virus and all these headlines of defective equipment.

Hopefully people wont be so stupid and take it out on people living here (again).

After reading a few articles today.. I think by the time it's over people might be grateful to China for gettting anything at all.. with the reports now of countries hijacking shipments being delivered from Asia or transported through them, demanding their own companies don't sell abroad

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/02/global-battle-coronavirus-equipment-masks-tests

US buyers waving wads of cash managed to wrest control of a consignment of masks as it was about to be dispatched from China to one of the worst-hit coronavirus areas of France, according to two French officials.

The masks were on a plane at Shanghai airport that was ready to take off when the US buyers turned up and offered three times what their French counterparts were paying.

Canada’s prime minister Justin Trudeau described such reports as “concerning and asked officials to look into similar claims that masks were being diverted away from his country.

“We need to make sure that equipment that is destined for Canada gets to and stays in Canada, and I’ve asked ministers to follow up on these particular reports,” he said on Thursday.

At a press conference in Brazil on Wednesday, the health minister, Luiz Henrique Mandetta, said recent attempts by Brasília to purchase protection gear such as gloves and masks from China had fallen through.

“Today the US sent 23 of their biggest cargo planes to China to pick up the material they had acquired. Many of our purchases, which we had hoped to confirm in order to supply [our health system], fell through,” he said. “The whole world wants [these things] too. There is a problem of hyper-demand.”

Mandetta asked ordinary Brazilians to make themselves homemade masks from pieces of cloth so that health professionals could have the remaining professional equipment.

As the pandemic worsens, panicked governments have been accused of using questionable methods to acquire supplies in the battle against the coronavirus. Tactics have ranged from blocking exports of medical supplies to sending spies on clandestine missions to find tests.

Fearing shortages and a strain on their health systems, a number of states, including France, Germany and Russia, have taken measures such as stockpiling masks and hazardous materials, or hazmat suits. This has meant limiting exports of protective medical equipment.

Turkey allegedly went further, not only banning exports of protective gear but also appearing to renege on foreign sales of masks that had already been paid for.

Reports by the Belgian newspaper Le Soir and the Italian daily Corriere della Sera said Turkish-made masks destined for those countries had never arrived. In Italy, it took more than two weeks following a phone call from the prime minister, Giuseppe Conte, to the Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, for the masks to be released. In Belgium, supplies had still not been delivered despite a formal police complaint from the country’s health ministry.

Turkey has also threatened to commandeer domestic mask producers to make sure they are provided only to the state. The local news outlet Hurriyet quoted the interior minister, Süleyman Soylu, as saying that authorities would seize factories if companies did not agree to sell on an exclusive basis to the health ministry.

China, the world’s largest mask manufacturer, was the first country to be hit by the Covid-19 outbreak and was also accused of stashing its supplies. It has, however, since been one of the few countries to go the other way, selling or donating millions of masks to Europe. One such shipment bound for Italy went through the Czech Republic, where it was seized by authorities under disputed circumstances.

Czech authorities denied allegations of state-backed stealing by Giornale Radio Rai, the radio news arm of Italy’s public broadcasting company, RAI. They said the masks had made their way to a warehouse north of Prague, where they were confiscated in an anti-trafficking operation. The foreign minister, Tomáš Petříček, later said his government had sent 110,000 masks to Rome as compensation.

A similar incident occurred in Kenya, where a shipment of up to 6m masks bound for Germany mysteriously disappeared while passing through the east African country, although there has been no suggestion that the government was responsible.

Drugs and coronavirus tests are also being coveted around the globe. After the US president suggested, without fully backed scientific evidence, that a common anti-malaria drug could treat Covid-19, India immediately moved to ban exports of hydroxychloroquine.

Griselda

The whole thing leaves an awful taste in the mouth. An unsavoury affair.

Calhoun

riffmongous wrote: »

After reading a few articles today.. I think by the time it's over people might be grateful to China for gettting anything at all.. with the reports now of countries hijacking shipments being delivered from Asia or transported through them, demanding their own companies don't sell abroad

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/02/global-battle-coronavirus-equipment-masks-tests

Just another example of America being America under trump, they will continue to ruin their reputation but China wont be off the hook either.

When you cannot trust who your dealing business with why do business with them. Things will go back to normal and people will remember crap like this.

thebaz

Calhoun wrote: »

Just another example of America being America under trump, they will continue to ruin their reputation but China wont be off the hook either.

When you cannot trust who your dealing business with why do business with them. Things will go back to normal and people will remember crap like this.

Russia have been very quiet regarding the whole crisis - if it wasn't so serious you could see it as a big game , to see who is Top dog - in January Trump seamed happy with china , a few weeks ago he was tweeting it the China virus - Ther has been a lot of posturing under the Trump admin, but then you have to wonder why did Russia want him in the Oval office , the past few days I can see why

riffmongous

thebaz wrote: »

Russia have been very quiet regarding the whole crisis - if it wasn't so serious you could see it as a big game , to see who is Top dog - in January Trump seamed happy with china , a few weeks ago he was tweeting it the China virus - Ther has been a lot of posturing under the Trump admin, but then you have to wonder why did Russia want him in the Oval office , the past few days I can see why

Russia keeping a low profile was probably more to do with their planned constitutional referendum, trying not to bring any attention to it while the rest of the world was distracted

Calhoun

thebaz wrote: »

Russia have been very quiet regarding the whole crisis - if it wasn't so serious you could see it as a big game , to see who is Top dog - in January Trump seamed happy with china , a few weeks ago he was tweeting it the China virus - Ther has been a lot of posturing under the Trump admin, but then you have to wonder why did Russia want him in the Oval office , the past few days I can see why

Indeed a Navy Captain removed from his position for daring to look after the men and women reporting to him, or the incident with the German bio company. Really highlights how bad his administration is.

thebaz

riffmongous wrote: »

Russia keeping a low profile was probably more to do with their planned constitutional referendum, trying not to bring any attention to it while the rest of the world was distracted

When or if this ends soon, the next big event is the American election , for a country that has produced so many great people , the standard of candidates is astoninishgiy poor - Biden is ok, but a leader of a Super power ?

Is it too late for the New York Governor Cuomo to make a late entry ? he's been good in a disaster

thebaz

Calhoun wrote: »

Indeed a Navy Captain removed from his position for daring to look after the men and women reporting to him, or the incident with the German bio company. Really highlights how bad his administration is.

The press conference last night with Pence was car crash stuff.

stockshares

thebaz wrote: »

The press conference last night with Pence was car crash stuff.

Every conference is. All he does is crawl up Trumps hole.

Still waters

Calhoun wrote: »

Indeed a Navy Captain removed from his position for daring to look after the men and women reporting to him, or the incident with the German bio company. Really highlights how bad his administration is.

Can you provide a link to the navy story

thebaz

Still waters wrote: »

Can you provide a link to the navy story

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52145230

Still waters

thebaz wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52145230

Crazy stuff, little more than a dictatorship


Edit; outside chain of command, not a dictatorship

Venom

Still waters wrote: »

Crazy stuff, little more than a dictatorship

I'd say it's more down to the fact he went outside of the chain of command by leaking the memo to the press. Military types kinda take that kind of stuff seriously.

Kivaro

Venom wrote: »

I'd say it's more down to the fact he went outside of the chain of command by leaking the memo to the press. Military types kinda take that kind of stuff seriously.

Yep. Plain and simple. It would be the same end result for any navy Captain in the world.
But we gotta have the hysterics.

Wonder why the thread title says "Countries returning faulty masks from China" and yet it gets redirected to Trump and Pense by a few posters each time.

stockshares

Dr Paul O Brien is critical if the way the HSE placed the order.

https://twitter.com/Paul_Chemlinked/status/1246161462625796096?s=19

Pitch n Putt

Maybe this has been asked before but how in the name of god are these PPE shipments costing €35 million a piece? Total cost €235 million

Last Sunday 6/7 containers left Dublin airport for distribution. That’s €5 million per container for single use glasses gowns face masks etc.

A 20ft container is roughly 6 m long 2.5m wide and 3m high.

I know supplies worldwide are low and in high demand and you expect to pay over the top but €5 million per container is an astronomical cost.

And some of this is now not suitable for use. Who sourced this ? Surely you should know what your getting if acquiring PPE at that cost.

stockshares

stockshares wrote: »

Dr Paul O Brien is critical if the way the HSE placed the order.

https://twitter.com/Paul_Chemlinked/status/1246161462625796096?s=19

How does that explain the **** quality masks? So its our fault we got absolutely scammed out of 200+ million euro? I suppose it is what we get for trusting communist ideologues who view everyone that isnt them as subhuman.

punisher5112

Can't wait for this gear to be made in Europe, no reason at all it can't be.....

Recycling our own plastic waste instead of shipping it to countries where it either is dumbed in land, in the sea or beaches and even new land created by the piles......


It's all put in the recycling bin but then really is much actually recycled at all.

_Brian

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Maybe this has been asked before but how in the name of god are these PPE shipments costing €35 million a piece? Total cost €235 million

Last Sunday 6/7 containers left Dublin airport for distribution. That’s €5 million per container for single use glasses gowns face masks etc.

A 20ft container is roughly 6 m long 2.5m wide and 3m high.

I know supplies worldwide are low and in high demand and you expect to pay over the top but €5 million per container is an astronomical cost.

And some of this is now not suitable for use. Who sourced this ? Surely you should know what your getting if acquiring PPE at that cost.

I’d say partly it’s because it’s medical grade and partly because it’s supply and demand. It’s likely we outbid other western countries for this stuff. Either splash the cash and have this PPE or have nothing.
Only a fraction of 10% has been incorrect. Much of what has been delivered is perfect for use, some of of the appropriate standards but not of a type we are used to seeing.

When literally the whole world is trying to get their hands on this stuff it’s actually good going that a country like Ireland is able to get a large contract.

If you think they are expensive then just imagine not having them at all, that’s the alternative.

ArchXStanton

riffmongous wrote: »

After reading a few articles today.. I think by the time it's over people might be grateful to China for gettting anything at all.. with the reports now of countries hijacking shipments being delivered from Asia or transported through them, demanding their own companies don't sell abroad

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/02/global-battle-coronavirus-equipment-masks-tests

They're at it again...

https://www.rt.com/news/484935-us-takes-masks-germany/

kirving

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

I know supplies worldwide are low and in high demand and you expect to pay over the top but €5 million per container is an astronomical cost.

If you think that's expensive, you should see what Irish medical companies charge the HSE, (and I'm sure others internationally) for simple equipment.

I've personally seen medical equipment, which including the cost of the manufacturing (machinery, materials, etc) costs way below €5 to produce, but is being sold to the HSE for over €600.

We are at absolutely the same thing on a day to day basis, so no surprise when we get the same treatment in return.

riffmongous

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Maybe this has been asked before but how in the name of god are these PPE shipments costing €35 million a piece? Total cost €235 million

Last Sunday 6/7 containers left Dublin airport for distribution. That’s €5 million per container for single use glasses gowns face masks etc.

A 20ft container is roughly 6 m long 2.5m wide and 3m high.

I know supplies worldwide are low and in high demand and you expect to pay over the top but €5 million per container is an astronomical cost.

And some of this is now not suitable for use. Who sourced this ? Surely you should know what your getting if acquiring PPE at that cost.

Based on what exactly? A ffp3 mask weighs 15g, a container has a weight limit of 25,000kg, if each mask costs 3 euro and its just full of masks guess what it works out at?

Pitch n Putt

riffmongous wrote: »

Based on what exactly? A ffp3 mask weighs 15g, a container has a weight limit of 25,000kg, if each mask costs 3 euro and its just full of masks guess what it works out at?

Yeah that’s true but I doubt you’d fit volume wise 25 tonnes of face masks into a 20ft container.

Anyway It’s still almost a 1/4 of a Billion euros for single use PPE. The mind boggles. Just seems like we’re getting royally ripped off.

Podge201

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Yeah that’s true but I doubt you’d fit volume wise 25 tonnes of face masks into a 20ft container.

Anyway It’s still almost a 1/4 of a Billion euros for single use PPE. The mind boggles. Just seems like we’re getting royally ripped off.

They could have provided ky Jelly at least.