Buying cattle on done deal

Dozer1

Haulier asked me to buy 5 good Limo weanlings off a neighbour, asked 2 euro/kg left em behind me right or wrong I just thought they weren't going to hold their value.

DukeCaboom

Bought my first load of cattle off dd last week.
Saw the ad left it a few days and rang him.
He said i was the first person to give my name.
Took a bit less than was on the ad.
Id only ever bought the odd bull or bulling heifer off it before.
I always prefer buying cattle in the marts as opposed to off lads at home because you can buy what you want at the mart.

Bass Reeves

DukeCaboom wrote: »

Bought my first load of cattle off dd last week.
Saw the ad left it a few days and rang him.
He said i was the first person to give my name.
Took a bit less than was on the ad.
Id only ever bought the odd bull or bulling heifer off it before.
I always prefer buying cattle in the marts as opposed to off lads at home because you can buy what you want at the mart.

You can buy what you want off DD as well. It as easy to walk out if a yard as a mart. As well in a yard you have no dealer bulling you. In reality you are bidding against yourself

squinn2912

Dozer1 wrote: »

Haulier asked me to buy 5 good Limo weanlings off a neighbour, asked 2 euro/kg left em behind me right or wrong I just thought they weren't going to hold their value.

Jesus is trade that bad? I know a fella got offered €2.25 for real good weanlings and he laughed the man out of it

Dozer1

well where's the return on them, they'd be 350+ ish min weight so 750+ a head. others here would say give 100 to cover grass for year so that's 850/900 depending how year goes will they be worth much over 900 in autumn?

if not then I store them...and next spring what they worth


if I had less stock I might have been tempted/inquired.

Suppose some lads real good weanling is an R, others is an E would be a difference too.

Albert Johnson

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You can buy what you want off DD as well. It as easy to walk out if a yard as a mart. As well in a yard you have no dealer bulling you. In reality you are bidding against yourself

To a degree yes but at least in the mart there's the chance of buying something else where in the yard if you pass by that's it for this trip. I'm not saying buy simply because you've travelled and I'd always rather be sorry for not buying rather than regretting looking at your purchase the next day.

As for being bullied I don't know, I tend not to take things to much to heart so I can't say it's something I'd be overly concerned about. I only ever bid to what an animal is worth to me and let everyone else make up there own mind. Having a reputation as someone who can't be taken out once they bid for stock isn't something I was ever interested in but each to there own. A relation of mine wants a few store bullocks and another neighbor has the like for sale. However as there neighbor's he doesn't want approaching him Incase they don't deal and the seller is offended. In the mart you can bid away and if you're the under bidder or there not sold then there's no such feeling's and it's on to the next lot.

DukeCaboom

Albert Johnson wrote: »

To a degree yes but at least in the mart there's the chance of buying something else where in the yard if you pass by that's it for this trip. I'm not saying buy simply because you've travelled and I'd always rather be sorry for not buying rather than regretting looking at your purchase the next day.

As for being bullied I don't know, I tend not to take things to much to heart so I can't say it's something I'd be overly concerned about. I only ever bid to what an animal is worth to me and let everyone else make up there own mind. Having a reputation as someone who can't be taken out once they bid for stock isn't something I was ever interested in but each to there own. A relation of mine wants a few store bullocks and another neighbor has the like for sale. However as there neighbor's he doesn't want approaching him Incase they don't deal and the seller is offended. In the mart you can bid away and if you're the under bidder or there not sold then there's no such feeling's and it's on to the next lot.

My golden rule... Dont buy from friends family or neighbours!!! 😂

Gman1987

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I only ever bid to what an animal is worth to me and let everyone else make up there own mind. .

I'd be like yourself, I have a max price set in my head before I start bidding and no problem bidding hard up to that but then I'll stop bidding every bit as quick, I'd say I caught auctioneers out a few times which is no harm!!!

Albert Johnson

Gman1987 wrote: »

I'd be like yourself, I have a max price set in my head before I start bidding and no problem bidding hard up to that but then I'll stop bidding every bit as quick, I'd say I caught auctioneers out a few times which is no harm!!!

It's definitely no harm to let an auctioneer or other buyer's know that you have a limit and are prepared to pull up when it's reached. I know several lad's who pride themselves on buying whatever the price if they like the beast. It's there money but a bad idea imo, they usually get polled as everyone knows they'll buy regardless.
If anything I'd probably be too conservative and oftentimes walk away a bit too early in hindsight. As above I'd rather walk away from something and regret it rather than look at it the next day and say why did I do that.

CHOPS01

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You can buy what you want off DD as well. It as easy to walk out if a yard as a mart. As well in a yard you have no dealer bulling you. In reality you are bidding against yourself

Walked away from 7 last Thursday. Was tempted but had to weight up the fact that another man was going to have to get €100 to bring em for me.
Spotted 8 CH at the weekend on DD and turned out they were less than 5 miles away from me but didn't know the man. Probably gave him €20/30 too much but he delivered em and no mart fees.So happy enough.

squinn2912

Albert Johnson wrote: »

It's definitely no harm to let an auctioneer or other buyer's know that you have a limit and are prepared to pull up when it's reached. I know several lad's who pride themselves on buying whatever the price if they like the beast. It's there money but a bad idea imo, they usually get polled as everyone knows they'll buy regardless.
If anything I'd probably be too conservative and oftentimes walk away a bit too early in hindsight. As above I'd rather walk away from something and regret it rather than look at it the next day and say why did I do that.

Funny I’d prefer to go on ahead and say why did I do that than why didn’t I. There’s a balance there’s prigs that would love to bully you away and there’s chancers that would bone the life of you. You want to avoid being coul but no be anyone’s fool either

Anto_Meath

squinn2912 wrote: »

Funny I’d prefer to go on ahead and say why did I do that than why didn’t I. There’s a balance there’s prigs that would love to bully you away and there’s chancers that would bone the life of you. You want to avoid being coul but no be anyone’s fool either

All you do is drop out on the first 1 if you think the auctioneer is gaming you. They are fairly sharp and if the get shown once you drop quickly then they wouldn't chance any messing... the dealer in the box would be more likely to try and game you, if they gets caught it doesn't really matter to them.. tend not to bid on dealers cattle to often...

Albert Johnson

squinn2912 wrote: »

Funny I’d prefer to go on ahead and say why did I do that than why didn’t I. There’s a balance there’s prigs that would love to bully you away and there’s chancers that would bone the life of you. You want to avoid being coul but no be anyone’s fool either

To each there own but I'd prefer to have the money in my pocket in that scenario. However perhaps I'm just cold when it comes to those matters. I'd always have a price in mind when buying or selling and would try to stick to it. Having said that I'd be in 2-3 marts a week so I get a lot more opportunity than lads that are working and only go to a mart a few times a year.

Albert Johnson

Anto_Meath wrote: »

All you do is drop out on the first 1 if you think the auctioneer is gaming you. They are fairly sharp and if the get shown once you drop quickly then they wouldn't chance any messing... the dealer in the box would be more likely to try and game you, if they gets caught it doesn't really matter to them.. tend not to bid on dealers cattle to often...

One of my best friends is an auctioneer and he often told me the difference between some lads around the ring. By this I mean that a certain buyer could drop out of something in a heartbeat and another could be polled for a €100 and still be there when the hammer fell. Of course you can use that information to your advantage but then it's up to every man to watch his own back. As for dealer's cattle I'd bid for near anything if the price and animal suited however movements can be a problem at times. There's one or two fella's who's stock I wouldn't touch because unless they were a total dodge the same lads wouldn't have them.

Hard Knocks

Albert Johnson wrote: »

One of my best friends is an auctioneer and he often told me the difference between some lads around the ring. By this I mean that a certain buyer could drop out of something in a heartbeat and another could be polled for a €100 and still be there when the hammer fell. Of course you can use that information to your advantage but then it's up to every man to watch his own back. As for dealer's cattle I'd bid for near anything if the price and animal suited however movements can be a problem at times. There's one or two fella's who's stock I wouldn't touch because unless they were a total dodge the same lads wouldn't have them.

The movement rule is a pain alright

davidk1394

I sold a few heifers yesterday €2/kg out of the field. Black and red aa heifers.

Anto_Meath

Albert Johnson wrote: »

One of my best friends is an auctioneer and he often told me the difference between some lads around the ring. By this I mean that a certain buyer could drop out of something in a heartbeat and another could be polled for a €100 and still be there when the hammer fell. Of course you can use that information to your advantage but then it's up to every man to watch his own back. As for dealer's cattle I'd bid for near anything if the price and animal suited however movements can be a problem at times. There's one or two fella's who's stock I wouldn't touch because unless they were a total dodge the same lads wouldn't have them.

O you are right Albert, movements is a disaster cant see why it cant be put up to 6. At the minute you have a lot of store cattle with 3 movements, 1 Herd born on, dealer who would buy in the West and then a farmer keep them for a year and sell stores, If you buy these then it doesn't suit to show in the mart again. You are right about the dodge too especially if there is a group.

Bass Reeves

Anto_Meath wrote: »

O you are right Albert, movements is a disaster cant see why it cant be put up to 6. At the minute you have a lot of store cattle with 3 movements, 1 Herd born on, dealer who would buy in the West and then a farmer keep them for a year and sell stores, If you buy these then it doesn't suit to show in the mart again. You are right about the dodge too especially if there is a group.

There is no problem with the movement rule. 4 movements on cattle is plenty. If it was 6 you have lads looking for 8. Problem is lads not factoring it into buying price and if you are planning on selling on again make sure you buy with no more than two owners.

Dairy side it allows a calf to be sold from a dairy farmer, a movement as yearling and again as a store before finishing.

Suckler selling as weanling, again as a store and onto a finisher. Problem is lads that want to buy in spring and sell in autumn. If not finishing you should be carrying cattle to where a finisher is buying

Extra movement allow dealers to control marts more as they can always find fools to buy cattle inflated prices and also movements allow them to keep buying knowing they can turn them against. Every time an animal moves through a mart is 30-50euro out of farmers pocket

squinn2912

davidk1394 wrote: »

I sold a few heifers yesterday €2/kg out of the field. Black and red aa heifers.

What age/weight were they?

davidk1394

A year old and 295 kgs

squinn2912

davidk1394 wrote: »

A year old and 295 kgs

Are they sucklers or dairy calves? If dairy it makes some sense to me and they’re weighing like lead but I don’t see how €600 pays for a cow and a wintering.

squinn2912

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is no problem with the movement rule. 4 movements on cattle is plenty. If it was 6 you have lads looking for 8. Problem is lads not factoring it into buying price and if you are planning on selling on again make sure you buy with no more than two owners.

Dairy side it allows a calf to be sold from a dairy farmer, a movement as yearling and again as a store before finishing.

Suckler selling as weanling, again as a store and onto a finisher. Problem is lads that want to buy in spring and sell in autumn. If not finishing you should be carrying cattle to where a finisher is buying

Extra movement allow dealers to control marts more as they can always find fools to buy cattle inflated prices and also movements allow them to keep buying knowing they can turn them against. Every time an animal moves through a mart is 30-50euro out of farmers pocket

Couldn’t agree more. At a mart I be sitting with my da and if 3/4 moves come up we always find ourselves jibing that no one got too attached to that one.

davidk1394

squinn2912 wrote: »

Are they sucklers or dairy calves? If dairy it makes some sense to me and they’re weighing like lead but I don’t see how €600 pays for a cow and a wintering.

Out of dairy stock. I have about €180 out of them. It'll pay for the AI of diary heifers

squinn2912

davidk1394 wrote: »

Out of dairy stock. I have about €180 out of them. It'll pay for the AI of diary heifers

Ah right that’s not so bad. I’m in north no idea what cattle are making atm. Friend over the border has real good lim weanlings and got offered €2.25 so he’s keeping them

Albert Johnson

squinn2912 wrote: »

Couldn’t agree more. At a mart I be sitting with my da and if 3/4 moves come up we always find ourselves jibing that no one got too attached to that one.

That's true to a point and sometimes you'll see stock with a ridiculous amount of moves but there can be a valid reason at times. I'd always look at the movements on springer cow's or suckler teams as often dodgy outfits are shifted on again when the problems become apparent.

Having said that I saw a few springer cows in the mart last back end with 10-12 movements and yet they were home bred by the seller. He used to send cow's away on BnB for the winter and had a few different herd numbers that he'd been putting cattle in and out of meaning there were lots of "paper movements" but the stock were still his. This would be an exception more than the rule but it does happen.

Albert Johnson

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is no problem with the movement rule. 4 movements on cattle is plenty. If it was 6 you have lads looking for 8. Problem is lads not factoring it into buying price and if you are planning on selling on again make sure you buy with no more than two owners.

Dairy side it allows a calf to be sold from a dairy farmer, a movement as yearling and again as a store before finishing.

Suckler selling as weanling, again as a store and onto a finisher. Problem is lads that want to buy in spring and sell in autumn. If not finishing you should be carrying cattle to where a finisher is buying

Extra movement allow dealers to control marts more as they can always find fools to buy cattle inflated prices and also movements allow them to keep buying knowing they can turn them against. Every time an animal moves through a mart is 30-50euro out of farmers pocket

I agree to a point Bass but I still think the whole movements and indeed QA issue is over kill for what it actually delivers. You can jump through all the necessary hoops and yet in times of uncertainty like now the processors still aren't that interested in your stock. There's always something new brought in to stall the job in recent years and it does feel like tail's the factory wins and heads the primary producer loses imo.

As for factoring in all these issues when buying I do think we'll soon reach a stage where the raw product cannot get any cheaper or it simply won't be there. Yes the finisher can pass back some price cuts but it has to stop somewhere and we're nearly at that point. Tbh I don't know why a lot of lad's bother with feeding prime cattle at all because there's so much red tape involved. If I had better land I'd be looking at feeding cull cow's, at least with them once there fleshed and a good sized carcass there's no age, movements, weight or other bull**** limit's.

Finally on the dealer's there in every business and will always try to control the market. It's sort of there job description imo, yes there's good and bad but you'd swear they were the adult equivalent of the bogey man at times. With a lot of lad's it's always going to be someone else's fault when there plan doesn't work out and if it wasn't the dealer's, factories or Larry it would be someone else. I understand I've more problems than solutions outlined above and hopefully that's today's rant over.

Robson99

There can often be a bit of value in cattle with 3 or 4 movements on them at the mart for someone finishing as you only have other finishers or the factory agent to compete with if they are there that day

Cavanjack

Robson99 wrote: »

There can often be a bit of value in cattle with 3 or 4 movements on them at the mart for someone finishing as you only have other finishers or the factory agent to compete with if they are there that day

You usually give away the bonus on in spec cattle so you can often buy out of spec stores (4 movements etc.) in the autumn for €100 less than a similar lad with less movements.

mf240

Are you allowed go look at cattle off done deal, under the current lockdown.

ruwithme

mf240 wrote: »

Are you allowed go look at cattle off done deal, under the current lockdown.

I haven't seen or heard anything to say your not. Plus the department wouldn't be approving movements between herds if there was any issue.
bit surprised that donedeal.ie wasn't restricted in what may have being put up for sale.

_Brian

Definitely reports online of farmers being turned home and told looking at stock to buy isn’t essential at the moment.

ruwithme

Buying might not be i suppose.but selling may be for some.if they want to do that then it's time to give a farmer the 350 aweek too then if restricting cattle sales.

wrangler

_Brian wrote: »

Definitely reports online of farmers being turned home and told looking at stock to buy isn’t essential at the moment.

Also on the radio yesterday where the guard told a farmer to turn around

mf240

wrangler wrote: »

Also on the radio yesterday where the guard told a farmer to turn around

Ooogh matron :D

Grueller

wrangler wrote: »

Also on the radio yesterday where the guard told a farmer to turn around

He was apparently going buying a breeding bull which is fairly essential for a spring calving herd.

Base price

_Brian wrote: »

Definitely reports online of farmers being turned home and told looking at stock to buy isn’t essential at the moment.

I went through 5 Garda checkpoints today and only stopped at one which was the same one in both directions on the roundabouts at the N3/M3 when on the road buying calves today.

Castlekeeper

ruwithme wrote: »

Buying might not be i suppose.but selling may be for some.if they want to do that then it's time to give a farmer the 350 aweek too then if restricting cattle sales.

I suppose thats what Google maps and by-roads are for.

squinn2912

What do you guys make of the price calculator in fj

Very optimistic I think

Bass Reeves

squinn2912 wrote: »

What do you guys make of the price calculator in fj

Very optimistic I think

It not s price calculator it is giving the average cattle price across different breeds and weights for some.period in 2019 and 2020. Basically it the same as toilet paper but if the FJ wants to keep lads paying 3.2/week fit toilet paper at present they must.fill the pages with something

cute geoge

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It not s price calculator it is giving the average cattle price across different breeds and weights for some.period in 2019 and 2020. Basically it the same as toilet paper but if the FJ wants to keep lads paying 3.2/week fit toilet paper at present they must.fill the pages with something

How do you value cattle ,as low as rock bottom when you are buying and rocket high when you are selling

Bass Reeves

cute geoge wrote: »

How do you value cattle ,as low as rock bottom when you are buying and rocket high when you are selling

When you sell cattle you take 200 euro from the cheque/head from the factory and say that for Georgie, you take your costs out of the cheque and pay your bills then you know what you can spend buying.

In reality you look at the animals tail and see if there is a margin there for you. If there is not you walk away. Forget about what an animal is worth, forget a out mart prices concentrate on your own costs ignore whay the next lads is saying. In reality at present cattle cannot be bought cheap enough if you are replacing cattle slaughtered.

orm0nd

sold 18 bullocks to a guy yesterday in the shed,

he immediately paid by cheque and asked could I do the movements on line and he'd arrange collection on monday ,

To morrow being a bank holiday & this guy had come a long road and was unknown to me, I began to get a little bit cautious . We had a vet performing surgery on a cow at the same time & I passed him off and said I let him know.

I rang the agent that put him on me & mentioned my concerns , he said you could give that man every beast you had in the shed and his cheque would still be good, I know him as long as I know you.

That was insurance enough for me.

Bass Reeves

orm0nd wrote: »

sold 18 bullocks to a guy yesterday in the shed,

he immediately paid by cheque and asked could I do the movements on line and he'd arrange collection on monday ,

To morrow being a bank holiday & this guy had come a long road and was unknown to me, I began to get a little bit cautious . We had a vet performing surgery on a cow at the same time & I passed him off and said I let him know.

I rang the agent that put him on me & mentioned my concerns , he said you could give that man every beast you had in the shed and his cheque would still be good, I know him as long as I know you.

That was insurance enough for me.

I have only once had to pay for cattle by draft, that was to a dealer. 2-3 times buying cars I have had to get drafts. I have given lads cheques for 2-3k to 30k and most lads have no issue.

Mind you it only takes one to act the maggot to crucify you. Mind you list fellas get caught for delivery so they know where the cattle are🀔🀔🀔

DukeCaboom

The father tells the story of a dealer landing on a couple of hours late with a load of cattle long go, he said the reason he was late was the farmer wanted the cheque to clear first before he'd let him take the cattle..... Said dealer went on to become our local TD

josephsoap

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I have only once had to pay for cattle by draft, that was to a dealer. 2-3 times buying cars I have had to get drafts. I have given lads cheques for 2-3k to 30k and most lads have no issue.

Mind you it only takes one to act the maggot to crucify you. Mind you list fellas get caught for delivery so they know where the cattle are🀔🀔🀔

Is there any other better way or app that could be used for payment in this situation - like could a seller use a Revolut card for payment/transfer of funds ?

thefareast

josephsoap wrote: »

Is there any other better way or app that could be used for payment in this situation - like could a seller use a Revolut card for payment/transfer of funds ?

I use sumup, I pay 1.95% transaction fee to take card payments but it means I can take debit/credit card payments on the spot and no need for messing around with cheques. Bank transfers would be my preference for large amounts but sometimes not always possible.

Bass Reeves

thefareast wrote: »

I use sumup, I pay 1.95% transaction fee to take card payments but it means I can take debit/credit card payments on the spot and no need for messing around with cheques. Bank transfers would be my preference for large amounts but sometimes not always possible.

2% is grand in smaller invoices as often it is factored in to the cost. However in cattle sales it is a serious hit. It would be 200 euro on a 10K sale which is much the same as mart fees and maybe dearer than transport for the same cattle.Most lads that work over DD can take the are fairly with it. At the end of the day you can either get a draft, take a cheque or do a credit transfer. There is always hard cash as well however no one gets cash from me

Fine Day

Went to look at cattle from DD over the weekend. About 25 miles away. A pure time waster but as it was new to me to buy cattle this way it was a great learning curve. The bunch of cattle were not as described. A few tiny ones in the bunch with pop bellies. But all not bad cause I could of left them behind he said. Now the seller. I was told he was getting out of farming and the place been let out. He had the cattle all over the winter he said over the phone. So I asked for the cards to check DOB which he gave be no problem. All of the cattle had been in a mart in the last 4 months some even only 6 weeks ago. All different marts too & different dates. I asked got a silence for about 20secs while he thought, I got a silly excuse. I then asked how many moves on them as cards were not filled in, I asked could he check online but he said there was an issue with his login password & he was locked out. Cut a long story short I smelt a rat. Said my good byes & left. So be aware is by advise. Lots of genuine sellers out there with a share of crocks in between .

ruwithme

For anyone putting stock up for sale it would be a big help to both buyers and sellers if they would put up oldest and youngest age, last t.b test date, born on farm or number of moves. and if Hereford or Angus if that's on the card.

some sellers deserve the hassle nonsense when they don’t tell as much info as possible.

Fine Day

ruwithme wrote: »

For anyone putting stock up for sale it would be a big help to both buyers and sellers if they would put up oldest and youngest age, last t.b test date, born on farm or number of moves. and if Hereford or Angus if that's on the card.

some sellers deserve the hassle nonsense when they don’t tell as much info as possible.

The price also. Noting worse when your getting interested when talking on the phone and then the final question after you ask for directions is the price and if it is of the wall. You have to figure out how to get off the phone without saying you are no longer interested.