CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) **Read OP**

Talisman

tobefrank321 wrote: »

PPE is the one that stands out for me. We don't even have the manufacturing capacity here to make simple medical masks.

People can rightly criticise the Chinese but only for them, we'd have no PPE. Shocking.

WRONG - Irema in Kilmallock, Co. Limerick are producing over 1M masks a week but they are all for export including to China.

Mervyn Skidmore

NIMAN wrote: »

I find it strange to hear about old people cocooning, yet adverts from supermarkets telling us that the first few hours of opening is for older folk.

Older people without family/friends will still have to get food.

yourdeadwright

Talisman wrote: »

There are some details of real ICU capacity at present, not the "around 500" figure as stated by Paul Reid and Anne O'Connor. Old habits die hard and it would appear that the HSE is still continuing to spin aspirational numbers as current capacity.

The private sectors beds have not been made available yet ,they will only be made available when the HSE beds are near full ,

So around 500 is a correct figure, I tried to count them myself from all the different reports and I think it was around 470ish

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

iguana wrote: »

Which again is something that could be helped massively if people who had the virus actually knew they had it. I guarantee we'd have absolutely no issue putting together a volunteer 'taxi' fleet of people with immunity who would drive currently infected people home from hospital. If the UK's antibody tests prove effective, hopefully the DoH here will order them too and we can do the same. It makes a lot of sense for us to wait and see if they prove effective in the UK's tests before ordering them ourselves. But hopefully they will be effective and we follow the British lead if they are. People with immunity could make a huge difference in the short to mid-term as volunteers and as people who can help kick start the economy.

That would be quite hard to administer. I use the volunteer driver service to get to my cancer appointments. It only started in my hospital last year despite the scheme being around for years and my hospital being one of the biggest. It took that long to get it organised. And that's a service where you don't have to check for immunity to something in the drivers. The amount of work that goes into running the scheme is eye-opening.

Another issue: most of the volunteers are retirees. Every single person who has driven me has been retired, most late 60s, early 70s. They're the people who have the free time.

Vinnie222

NIMAN wrote: »

I find it strange to hear about old people cocooning, yet adverts from supermarkets telling us that the first few hours of opening is for older folk.

Cocooning is for 70's and over. Anyone that are 60 and older can avail of those hours for shopping

otnomart

kilkenny31 wrote: »

I think we'll be OK tho. The governments own projection was at the peak 550 people would be in ICU. I've read that we will have close to 1000 beds between public and private so we would be able to cope. The good news is that that was with a projection of 800+ new cases being diagnosed a day around now. Yesterday we saw just 200. We wont see the chaos seen in other countries by the looks of things.

Last week the Netherlands health institute worked on the assumption that Covid-19 patients who end up in ICU will need to stay there for 10 days. Now that assumption has been adjusted to 23 days.
Longer stays will require more ICU beds.
https://nltimes.nl/2020/03/30/coronavirus-measures-less-effective-hoped-health-institute

Rob A. Bank

Talisman wrote: »

WRONG - Irema in Kilmallock, Co. Limerick are producing over 1M masks a week but they are all for export including to China.

Our modern version of exporting corn during the famine ?

We should be making sure our own health workers have enough masks before exporting them is even considered.

tobefrank321

Talisman wrote: »

WRONG - Irema in Kilmallock, Co. Limerick are producing over 1M masks a week but they are all for export including to China.

That's even more shocking to be honest.

We are both exporting to and importing masks from China at huge expense.

Would it not make sense to buy the masks from the Limerick company?

The more I find out about how governments handle this the more my blood boils.

yourdeadwright

tobefrank321 wrote: »

That's even more shocking to be honest.

We are both exporting to and importing masks from China at huge expense.

Would it not make sense to buy the masks from the Limerick company?

The more I find out about how governments handle this the more my blood boils.

They probably have contracts that they can't get out of ,

CrabRevolution

tobefrank321 wrote: »

PPE is the one that stands out for me. We don't even have the manufacturing capacity here to make simple medical masks.

People can rightly criticise the Chinese but only for them, we'd have no PPE. Shocking.

If we had started preparing for potential disasters such as this before they transpired, it would be criticised and mocked by the media and public.

Before Covid-19 if you'd asked most people about Swine Flu or Bird Flu they'd have laughed and said the stupid government made a big deal over nothing. Even now we still have people using the "the flu kills more" line. The iodine tablets for potential nuclear disasters from the early 2000s have become a stock joke.

Until earlier this month, any and all expenditure by the state was greeted with howls of "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE HOMELESS?". If the HSE had started buying more PPE, hand sanitiser and disinfectant etc. before the Covid-19 outbreak we'd have seen plenty of "My granny was on a trolley in A&E for 3 years but Simon Harris thinks buying hand soap is more important" type stuff.

anonanymore

Vinnie222 wrote: »

Cocooning is for 70's and over. Anyone that are 60 and older can avail of those hours for shopping

Over 65s in Tesco

Talisman

yourdeadwright wrote: »

The private sectors beds have not been made available yet ,they will only be made available when the HSE beds are near full ,

So around 500 is a correct figure, I tried to count them myself from all the different reports and I think it was around 470ish

My understanding was that those 470ish are the same 450 standby beds.

Away With The Fairies

tobefrank321 wrote: »

That's even more shocking to be honest.

We are both exporting to and importing masks from China at huge expense.

Would it not make sense to buy the masks from the Limerick company?

The more I find out about how governments handle this the more my blood boils.

Shipping masks to a place that gave us the virus in the first place. We should look after our own first.

KiKi III

anonanymore wrote: »

Over 65s in Tesco

Doubt the bouncers on the door are too strict on IDing them

tobefrank321

yourdeadwright wrote: »

They probably have contracts that they can't get out of ,

Probably the case. But how does it make sense to send planes to China when the masks are being made down the road?

Can our government not come to a deal with the Chinese?

Living Off The Splash

Question. If I am staying in my own home and self isolating, do I need to wash my hands constantly.

If everyone is washing their hands with the tap running for 20 seconds I can imagine a situation where Irish Water will run out of water, come the summer time shortages.

Will this be offset by the businesses that are closed and not using water at the moment?

Yester

Anywhere I can get a fake id so I can go shopping a bit earlier?

kilkenny31

otnomart wrote: »

Last week the Netherlands health institute worked on the assumption that Covid-19 patients who end up in ICU will need to stay there for 10 days. Now that assumption has been adjusted to 23 days.
Longer stays will require more ICU beds.
https://nltimes.nl/2020/03/30/coronavirus-measures-less-effective-hoped-health-institute

It still doesn't negate the fact that the governments worst case scenario suggested 500 people would be in ICU at the peak of this that is with a daily increase of 800 cases at this stage. We are at a quarter of that so that would suggest the numbers in ICU should be significantly lower than that so we should be well able to cope given the beds that are coming on stream over the next week or so.

Rob A. Bank

yourdeadwright wrote: »

They probably have contracts that they can't get out of ,

Taiwan sent the army into their factories to make sure they were operating 24/7 producing masks. They also opened more lines producing masks.

They banned all exports until they were sure that their own population had enough masks... when that was done they resumed exports.

Germany banned PPE exports too until they were sure they had enough for their own.

old_aussie

When a handful of Dutch health workers fell ill days after the Netherlands’ first Covid-19 case, it prompted mass screening at two hospitals. What scientists found surprised them.

Some 1,353 hospital staff in Breda and Tilburg, who recently suffered typical winter coughs and sniffles, were tested for the coronavirus. Of those, 86 -- or 6.4% -- were positive. Barely half had a fever, and the majority reported working while they were mildly ill.

The “unexpected high prevalence” indicated hidden community spread, Marion Koopmans, Jan Kluytmans, and colleagues said in a report on Friday. The research is the first to describe clinical effects of the pandemic-causing disease among health-care workers and “confirms the insidious nature” of the coronavirus.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-28/dutch-hospital-workers-show-insidious-nature-of-coronavirus

KiKi III

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Taiwan sent the army into their factories to make sure they were operating 24/7 producing masks. They also opened more lines producing masks.

They banned all exports until they were sure that their own population had enough masks... when that was done they resumed exports.

Germany banned PPE exports too until they were sure they had enough for their own.

We will likely do the same with ventilators coming out of Medtronic if we run short.

D.Q

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Taiwan sent the army into their factories to make sure they were operating 24/7 producing masks. They also opened more lines producing masks.

They banned all exports until they were sure that their own population had enough masks... when that was done they resumed exports.

Germany banned PPE exports too until they were sure they had enough for their own.

If we stop exporting as agreed it opens up a whole can of worms where we might no longer be able to import as agreed. We are an island that needs to keep our air supply chains open and running.

Talisman

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Our modern version of exporting corn during the famine ?

We should be making sure our own health workers have enough masks before exporting them is even considered.

I think it was their marketing manager that was interviewed on the radio in the week after the first case and said they had contacted the HSE about supplying them but there was no take up. The same day the company announced that they were increasing the size of the workforce to cope with demand. They needed to ramp up production to produce 2.5M masks a week to fill the export orders.

yourdeadwright

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Probably the case. But how does it make sense to send planes to China when the masks are being made down the road?

Can our government not come to a deal with the Chinese?

I would imagine they have already spoke about it and are getting them back at a reduced price,
Probably a huge stock pile of them in China ,

Chinese are not easy to deal with at the best of times now they have the upper hand I'm sure they drive a hard deal

tobefrank321

CrabRevolution wrote: »

If we had started preparing for potential disasters such as this before they transpired, it would be criticised and mocked by the media and public.

Before Covid-19 if you'd asked most people about Swine Flu or Bird Flu they'd have laughed and said the stupid government made a big deal over nothing. Even now we still have people using the "the flu kills more" line. The iodine tablets for potential nuclear disasters from the early 2000s have become a stock joke.

Until earlier this month, any and all expenditure by the state was greeted with howls of "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE HOMELESS?". If the HSE had started buying more PPE, hand sanitiser and disinfectant etc. before the Covid-19 outbreak we'd have seen plenty of "My granny was on a trolley in A&E for 3 years but Simon Harris thinks buying hand soap is more important" type stuff.

I sort of agree.

The HSE said back in January I believe they were well prepared for something like Covid19 due to prior experience with outbreaks like SARS.

Turns out their plans were back of the envelope stuff. They had no plan. Even now medical staff are on social media begging the public for PPE.

The HSE arrogance at the start has been costly. It would have been far better if they came out and said they were concerned and put in plans to protect nursing homes and medical staff with PPE. They didn't.

yourdeadwright

KiKi III wrote: »

We will likely do the same with ventilators coming out of Medtronic if we run short.

No chance Ireland is the lapdog when it comes to business deals with the big boys . We will do what we are told,

old_aussie

Yester wrote: »

Anywhere I can get a fake id so I can go shopping a bit earlier?

Yeah, just let me fire up Photoshop and I'll be right back to you.

kilburn

Talisman wrote:

WRONG - Irema in Kilmallock, Co. Limerick are producing over 1M masks a week but they are all for export including to China.

Irema supply the HSE with 150,000 masks every week with production increasing to 1m per week

crossman47

On SOR just now he mentioned a tweet from Fergal Bowers that Dept of Health figures today would be considerably lower than the worst case scenario he reported this morning. I'm sure they told him that so he would tone down the breathless reporting of his great scoop. They should also sanction the person who leaked the result of a planning document. They are quite correct to be doing this but most people will interpret it as a forecast. Same as those saying Leo was wrong because we're not hitting 15000.

tobefrank321

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I would imagine they have already spoke about it and are getting them back at a reduced price,
Probably a huge stock pile of them in China ,

Chinese are not easy to deal with at the best of times now they have the upper hand I'm sure they drive a hard deal

From what I can see, masks from a Limerick company are being flown out to China.
Then we buy masks from China.
And those masks are flown back to Ireland.

If you want proof we're a banana republic you've just seen it.

Ardent

yourdeadwright wrote: »

You'd have to imagine mid April will be the height of this...

Not a chance IMO. This thing is like a snowball rolling downhill, gathering size and pace. We'll be lucky if we peak end of April.

Marsden35

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

Question. If I am staying in my own home and self isolating, do I need to wash my hands constantly.

If you aren't leaving the house, no.

You wash your hands after you've been out or after you're received mail/packages.

Some things to remember. If you've touched your phone whilst out, wipe it clean once home.

Your house/car keys could be infected.

If you don't have taps with a lever that you can turn on/off with an elbow or wrist, then disinfect tap after use.

Living Off The Splash

kilkenny31 wrote: »

It still doesn't negate the fact that the governments worst case scenario suggested 500 people would be in ICU at the peak of this that is with a daily increase of 800 cases at this stage. We are at a quarter of that so that would suggest the numbers in ICU should be significantly lower than that so we should be well able to cope given the beds that are coming on stream over the next week or so.

Have all those people who are making up the daily death rate from Covid 19 been patients in ICU? Do we know if people are dying at home?

cnocbui

yourdeadwright wrote: »

They probably have contracts that they can't get out of ,

Absolute nonsense. If a government - force majeure - tells a company to do something, any contract they signed becomes null and void. The German government stopped medical equipment from being exported from Germany, China and many other countries likewise.

The Irish government, for some bizarre reason, have decided to allow the export of critically needed resources. And equally bizarre is that i haven't noticed the media pulling them up on it.

Notmything

is_that_so wrote: »

They are told to self-isolate for 14 days. Why do you imagine people would choose to ignore that?

Tbf, my neighbours came home from England at the weekend. Were told to isolate for 14 days but have done anything but.
Had a reunion party the night they got home, have gone to work and on the go the whole time.
Some people will ignore directives, instructions or whatever and do their own thing.

cnocbui

otnomart wrote: »

Last week the Netherlands health institute worked on the assumption that Covid-19 patients who end up in ICU will need to stay there for 10 days. Now that assumption has been adjusted to 23 days.
Longer stays will require more ICU beds.
https://nltimes.nl/2020/03/30/coronavirus-measures-less-effective-hoped-health-institute

Why would the the Netherlands health institute assume that when the Chinese have said the average recovery period is 31 days?

wakka12

http://www.uppbuzz.com/world/coronavirus-pandemic-has-infected-more-than-700000-people/
3.4 billion people around the world currently in some form of lockdown

Living Off The Splash

Marsden35 wrote: »

If you aren't leaving the house, no.

You wash your hands after you've been out or after you're received mail/packages.

Some things to remember. If you've touched your phone whilst out, wipe it clean once home.

Your house/car keys could be infected.

If you don't have taps with a lever that you can turn on/off with an elbow or wrist, then disinfect tap after use.

Good points. Any suggestions for clothes/shoes etc.

We go out once a week. Should we have "going out clothes" that we only use to go out in and change when we come home. Should we wash these or isolate them till the next week.

How about our hair?

mick987

boetstark wrote: »

Two things
If they end up in a coffin it's the ultimate isolation
Also do people really think its OK for our elderly to stroll around in public spreading this virus.
Insisting on going out because they cannot sit on their arses for a few weeks is so selfish

Also do people really think its OK to stroll around in public spreading this virus.
Insisting on going out because they cannot sit on their arses for a few weeks is so selfish[/QUOTE]

zinfandel

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

Have all those people who are making up the daily death rate from Covid 19 been patients in ICU? Do we know if people are dying at home?

I believe not, quite a few of the nursing home patients did not make it to hospital.

wakka12

https://www.rijnmond.nl/nieuws/193796/Rotterdam-Ahoy-wordt-tijdelijke-zorglocatie-eerste-patienten-half-april-verwacht
The eurovision contest venue in Rotterdam has been been transformed into a temporary hospital, something kind of sad and apocalyptic about that

AdrianG08

Bloody hell is it just me or does there seem to be genuine disappointment amongst some posters on here that numbers are not rocketing as was speculated?

Whipping people up into a frenzy seems to be a hobby, its ridiculous carry on

tobefrank321

Notmything wrote: »

Tbf, my neighbours came home from England at the weekend. Were told to isolate for 14 days but have done anything but.
Had a reunion party the night they got home, have gone to work and on the go the whole time.
Some people will ignore directives, instructions or whatever and do their own thing.

This.

And you can be sure they aren't the only ones.

Talisman

Details of Irema increasing their production capacity:

Limerick firm reaping benefits of soaring face mask demand around world (BreakingNews, March 3)

Their masks were also quite popular during the SARS outbreak ...

Irish firm deluged with orders for surgical masks (Irish Times, April 30 2003)

Cork Boy 53

cnocbui wrote: »

Absolute nonsense. If a government - force majeure - tells a company to do something, any contract they signed becomes null and void. The German government stopped medical equipment from being exported from Germany, China and many other countries likewise.

The Irish government, for some bizarre reason, have decided to allow the export of critically needed resources. And equally bizarre is that i haven't noticed the media pulling them up on it.

I wonder have the mainstream media been made aware of this assuming it`s true? If it is then it`s a national disgrace IMO.

threeball

tobefrank321 wrote: »

From what I can see, masks from a Limerick company are being flown out to China.
Then we buy masks from China.
And those masks are flown back to Ireland.

If you want proof we're a banana republic you've just seen it.

China is making a killing off this virus. One mask manufacturer has increased its value 420%. 9000 mask manufacturers set up since January. They're also making 1000s of ventilators a week. If this isn't a wake up call for people to start manufacturing and buying product at home I don't know what is.

is_that_so

tobefrank321 wrote: »

From what I can see, masks from a Limerick company are being flown out to China.
Then we buy masks from China.
And those masks are flown back to Ireland.

If you want proof we're a banana republic you've just seen it.

The Chinese order is enormous and for many millions of PPE items over the course of 6 weeks, not just masks.

ITman88

AdrianG08 wrote: »

Bloody hell is it just me or does there seem to be genuine disappointment amongst some posters on here that numbers are not rocketing as was speculated?

Whipping people up into a frenzy seems to be a hobby, its ridiculous carry on

This thread is worse for people’s health than the virus itself!
Doomsday fantasies

The HorsesMouth

wakka12 wrote: »

https://www.rijnmond.nl/nieuws/193796/Rotterdam-Ahoy-wordt-tijdelijke-zorglocatie-eerste-patienten-half-april-verwacht
The eurovision contest venue in Rotterdam has been been transformed into a temporary hospital, something kind of sad and apocalyptic about that

This is the type of thing that would be in a film and we would be watching it wide eyed and thinking that could never happen. But here it is happening and most people are just meh, just another temporary hospital set up..we have seen it all. We have all adjusted ourselves to this new world more than we realise.

Talisman

mick987 wrote: »

Also do people really think its OK to stroll around in public spreading this virus.
Insisting on going out because they cannot sit on their arses for a few weeks is so selfish

Some people have mental health issues which spiral out of control when they feel confined. The need to get out isn't a rational decision but their state of mind is not a rational space.