CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) **Read OP**

caveat emptor

ongarite wrote: »

We are on track for a minimum deficit of 16 billion if this goes on for another 2 months.
30 billion if this lock-down goes on until September.

That's over 4 times bigger than the banking bailout which had this country on its knees for 10 years.

We will have to get the service industry back up and running within 2 months or the whole population is screwed, not just the vulnerable to this pandemic.

Eh maths are way off there.

So only costs 3 quarters of something that didn't benefit 95% of the population.
Was it worth paying €41.7bn to bail out Irish banks?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/was-it-worth-paying-41-7bn-to-bail-out-irish-banks-1.4036792

Doctor Jimbob

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

As opposed to your own daily contribution of crying about the economy?

I'm not claiming to have the solutions. I'm saying that protecting something we can change if we're willing at the cost of thousands of lives is fecking weird.



I didn't say it was easy, I said it was possible.

Do you not accept that a bajaxed economy has a human cost? An increased number of deaths through depression, addiction, suicide, poor public health, and an even more underfunded heath system? Its just that those deaths are hard to quantify, unlike COVID-19, which makes them easy to dismiss by those that just want to lockdown forever

kilkenny31

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Its not as easy as just clicking your fingers and "fixing the economy"

It can be relatively quick if the ECB and the EU step up to the plate. This is make or break for the Euro in my opinion. If governments are restricted from taking drastic measures because of the ECB or German/Dutch obsession with inflation and Debt we will see revolt in Italy, France and Spain.

Ger Roe

ongarite wrote: »

We are on track for a minimum deficit of 16 billion if this goes on for another 2 months.
30 billion if this lock-down goes on until September.

That's over 4 times bigger than the banking bailout which had this country on its knees for 10 years.

We will have to get the service industry back up and running within 2 months or the whole population is screwed, not just the vulnerable to this pandemic.

The whole world is screwed - there will be some radical rethinking required from all our overlords (local, national, international) to avoid mass revolt. The entire concept of debt and and repayment between institutions and countries will have to be reviewed and some imaginative solutions implemented.

The economic rule books and the basis of international economic cooperation will be rewritten after this event. Hopefully for the better and in the interests of everybody.

Tony EH

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you not accept that a bajaxed economy has a human cost? An increased number of deaths through depression, addiction, suicide, poor public health, and an even more underfunded heath system? Its just that those deaths are hard to quantify, unlike COVID-19, which makes them easy to dismiss by those that just want to lockdown forever

You sound ridiculous.

BLIZZARD7

facehugger99 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure we'll be borrowing for years. the only questions are who from, how much and for how long.

€200bn of debt and rising - out great-grandkids will be paying it off for us

Nah, either the ECB will issue Coronabonds or the debt from this will carry a 0% or negative Interest rate. Creative economics is the only way out of this- any austerity led fix will result in the collapse of the EU etc, I.e it won't happen.

tobefrank321 wrote: »

That's a bit harsh. Maybe you will come up with suggestions yourself?

This ^ we have to save lives to save the economy. There is no economy without people. What's the alternative?

tobefrank321

Don't worry when this is all over, the Germans will be coming for their pound of flesh in the form of crippling austerity. Every last cent borrowed will have to be paid back and with interest.

Kermit.de.frog

caveat emptor wrote: »

Eh maths are way off there.

So only costs 3 quarters of something that didn't benefit 95% of the population.
Was it worth paying €41.7bn to bail out Irish banks?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/was-it-worth-paying-41-7bn-to-bail-out-irish-banks-1.4036792

Not this again.

If the measures taken were not taken the country would have no money today to deal with the crisis.

This country would be locked out of the financial markets, bankrupt and unable to borrow a cent.

It's as simple as that.

Some just don't want to believe it and will never understand it.

Get over it.

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

You sound ridiculous.

You think that the sentiment in the post is ridiculous?

Tony EH

BLIZZARD7 wrote: »

What's the alternative?

The "alternative" is carrying on as normal and not giving a shit about the people who contract the virus and die.

MipMap

DOCARCH wrote: »

I thought bank bail out was about 65 billion? Could be wrong.

You are not wrong. Anglo and Irish Nationwide took half of that and it went right down the toilet.

MOR316

Ger Roe wrote: »

The economic rule books and the basis of international economic cooperation will be rewritten after this event. Hopefully for the better and in the interests of everybody.

Tony EH

Deleted User wrote: »

You think that the sentiment in the post is ridiculous?

Nobody wants a lockdown "forever". Yes, you sound ridiculous.

Doctor Jimbob

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you not accept that a bajaxed economy has a human cost? An increased number of deaths through depression, addiction, suicide, poor public health, and an even more underfunded heath system? Its just that those deaths are hard to quantify, unlike COVID-19, which makes them easy to dismiss by those that just want to lockdown forever

Why are you so intent on protecting a system that you admit yourself collapses at the slightest hint of trouble?

shocksy

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Don't worry when this is all over, the Germans will be coming for their pound of flesh in the form of crippling austerity. Every last cent borrowed will have to be paid back and with interest.

The Germans can go f*ck themselves. The rest of the EU aren't going to lie down to their austerity measures after this.

jobeenfitz

Any one of us could have this virus unless we have zero contact with outside world. It's hard to have zero contact if you want to eat or if you live with someone else.

We know infected people can spray virus by coughing, sneezing, shouting and maybe while just talking. Some times they contaminate goods we buy or just things we touch.

Now if ur wearing a mask it prevents the spread by these methods . It's common sense.

The availability can be solved. You don't need a mask fit for the operating table.

Im in Spain and anytime I've been to shop since lockdown over two weeks ago, virtually everyone was wearing a mask.

If people start dying in big numbers people will change their mind and wear masks.

tobefrank321

Ger Roe wrote: »

The whole world is screwed - there will be some radical rethinking required from all our overlords (local, national, international) to avoid mass revolt. The entire concept of debt and and repayment between institutions and countries will have to be reviewed and some imaginative solutions implemented.

The economic rule books and the basis of international economic cooperation will be rewritten after this event. Hopefully for the better and in the interests of everybody.

I wonder what would happen if everyone everywhere cancelled the debts they were owed and owe. Has anyone ever looked into it?

The Chinese for example are owed a sh*tload of money from countries.

It would be entirely perverse if we had to borrow from them to pay for this mess. Really they should cancel all debts they are owed as a starting point.

facehugger99

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Why are you so intent on protecting a system that you admit yourself collapses at the slightest hint of trouble?

Why haven't you come up with a single alternative to that system yet?

DOCARCH

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Don't worry when this is all over, the Germans will be coming for their pound of flesh in the form of crippling austerity. Every last cent borrowed will have to be paid back and with interest.

Germans will not be looking for anything!

Last time it was a banking crisis and basically country vs country being vindictive and trying to protect their own interests. This is different in that it's world vs virus and we are all in the same boat.

Ger Roe

MOR316 wrote: »

I did say 'hopefully'.

MipMap

jobeenfitz wrote: »

If people start dying in big numbers people will change their mind and wear masks.

Indeed, but it is sad that we have to wait for that first.


Pity we can't learn from China, Italy and Spain.

Ace2007

Moving away from masks, I think one area that needs to change are supermarkets and shops. - you cannot pick up anything unless you are buying it - this idea of picking up something and then changing mind - or better yet fruit to see if apple looks ok etc should stop

Ace2007

MipMap wrote: »

Indeed, but it is sad that we have to wait for that first.


Pity we can't learn from China, Italy and Spain.

You mean lock everyone in houses with chains as in some parts of China - and not have 2km radius to exercise?

Oh wait that’s right we won’t allow that to happen

Reckless Abandonment

Tony EH wrote: »

The "alternative" is carrying on as normal and not giving a shit about the people who contract the virus and die.

Carry on with social distancing. Keep pumping billions into the health service ( a new coronavirus dept maybe) slowly start opening up things. Get people back to work schools etc. And honestly see how that pans out.

MipMap

Ace2007 wrote: »

You mean lock everyone in houses with chains as in some parts of China - and not have 2km radius to exercise?

Oh wait that’s right we won’t allow that to happen

If you want a row find someone else!

caveat emptor

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Not this again.

If the measures taken were not taken the country would have no money today to deal with the crisis.

This country would be locked out of the financial markets, bankrupt and unable to borrow a cent.

It's as simple as that.

Some just don't want to believe it and will never understand it.

Get over it.

The fact that we are in debt is nothing to do with us. ECB is more indebted than ever. (before the virus)

https://twitter.com/Schuldensuehner/status/1244988948776128513?s=20

Tony EH

Reckless Abandonment wrote: »

Carry on with social distancing. Keep pumping billions into the health service ( a new coronavirus dept maybe) slowly start opening up things. Get people back to work schools etc. And honestly see how that pans out.

You realise that the essential ingredient of "social distancing" is people staying at home right?

Ace2007

Reckless Abandonment wrote: »

Carry on with social distancing. Keep pumping billions into the health service ( a new coronavirus dept maybe) slowly start opening up things. Get people back to work schools etc. And honestly see how that pans out.

And what happens if say the virus mutated and the mortality and morbidity rates for children was over 25% - would you be ok with this?

This idea of sure we can try and see how it pans out is ridiculous - your talking about lives - this isn’t brexit where someone might lose their business - this is way way more important than that -

BorneTobyWilde

unemployment going to 20% in USA

'' never seen before, 20% omg, I never thought I’d see such a print in my lifetime'''

I don't get it, 20% ? I thought it would be at 90% . so 80% of people still working in USA or getting paid.

jobeenfitz

Ace2007 wrote: »

You mean lock everyone in houses with chains as in some parts of China - and not have 2km radius to exercise?

Oh wait that’s right we won’t allow that to happen

What chains are ya on about, shur he's only talking about wearing a mask? I think ya might be too tightly wound up there?

MipMap

jobeenfitz wrote: »

What chains are ya on about, shur he's only talking about wearing a mask? I think ya might be too tightly wound up there?

WUM - Ignored

Not You HIM

callaway92

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

unemployment going to 20% in USA

'' never seen before, 20% omg, I never thought I’d see such a print in my lifetime'''

I don't get it, 20% ? I thought it would be at 90% . so 80% of people still working in USA or getting paid.

What???

You thought unemployment would go to 90 fúcking percent

Ace2007

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

unemployment going to 20% in USA

'' never seen before, 20% omg, I never thought I’d see such a print in my lifetime'''

I don't get it, 20% ? I thought it would be at 90% . so 80% of people still working in USA or getting paid.

What % of Irelands workforce is currently unemployed - I think it would be lower than some people are making out

rossie1977

Austria look to be the first country in Europe that's beginning to flatten curve after a widespread outbreak.

BanditLuke

jobeenfitz wrote: »

Any one of us could have this virus unless we have zero contact with outside world. It's hard to have zero contact if you want to eat or if you live with someone else.

We know infected people can spray virus by coughing, sneezing, shouting and maybe while just talking. Some times they contaminate goods we buy or just things we touch.

Now if ur wearing a mask it prevents the spread by these methods . It's common sense.

The availability can be solved. You don't need a mask fit for the operating table.

Im in Spain and anytime I've been to shop since lockdown over two weeks ago, virtually everyone was wearing a mask.

If people start dying in big numbers people will change their mind and wear masks.

Did our weekly shop again this morning. Guy at the door of Lidl was telling people one in one out and only 50 in the shop at any one time. Out of that 50 i'd say 10 had masks on including myself. None of the staff had any. Took me the guts of 90 minutes to wipe all the shopping down and disgard some boxes etc...cloths straight off into washing machine then into shower.

I feel like some people are being given really bad advice on the mask situation, it's for the good of everyone to stop you breathing, coughing or sneezing on produce/other people and along with good hand hygiene it really works.

Reckless Abandonment

Tony EH wrote: »

You realise that the essential ingredient of "social distancing" is people staying at home right?

No it's about keeping you distance from people you dont need to mix with. It can be very strict or relaxed a bit. Many work places currently closed can an will find way to make this work .

Doctor Jimbob

facehugger99 wrote: »

Why haven't you come up with a single alternative to that system yet?

Nope. Not getting drawn into that one. You've contributed absolutely nothing yourself other than "blah blah the economy", yet you're expecting anyone criticising your nonsense to have all the answers.

The economy is a human construct, therefore it can be modified by humans. Your idea of restarting the economy and letting the virus run wild is naive at best and sociopathic at worst.

Ace2007

jobeenfitz wrote: »

What chains are ya on about, shur he's only talking about wearing a mask? I think ya might be too tightly wound up there?

The poster I originally replied to said that we should look at wuhan as example - they wear Masks - I simple pointed out that they are also chained into their houses - and have gotten over the virus and asked should we not do this as well given it proven to work.

Everyone has the same goal - this virus needs to go - however everyone in here seems to have a different view on how it goes - the quickest way would be obv to follow wuhun approach to a tee - but we as a society won’t do that - so now we are left to follow an unproven approach because as a society we don’t want tougher restrictions.

Wear masks, don’t wear masks, if your practicing social distancing and staying indoors a lot it won’t make much if any difference.

Would gloves not be equally as important if not more - but you don’t see people banging on about them -

Reckless Abandonment

Ace2007 wrote: »

And what happens if say the virus mutated and the mortality and morbidity rates for children was over 25% - would you be ok with this?

This idea of sure we can try and see how it pans out is ridiculous - your talking about lives - this isn’t brexit where someone might lose their business - this is way way more important than that -

Seriously what ifs!!! We are in a world of what ifs now like it or not. In a few week people are going to be screaming for the rules to he relaxed. What if the virus mutated to something last dangerous

spookwoman

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1245713439445659649?s=20

Tony EH

Reckless Abandonment wrote: »

No it's about keeping you distance from people you dont need to mix with..

That's just a part of it. The MAIN part is staying at home.

facehugger99

Ace2007 wrote: »

What % of Irelands workforce is currently unemployed - I think it would be lower than some people are making out

20% of the labour force are now claiming jobless benefits or wage subsidies and we are at the very early stages of economic impact. We may be looking at over 30% in the next few weeks.

That is frightening.

At the height of the last recession the unemployment rate was 18%.

How we will run a health, education or SW system with a third of the Country out of work, is a question that the bedroom-dwelling, lockdown-merchants can't answer.

ChikiChiki

Ace2007 wrote: »

What % of Irelands workforce is currently unemployed - I think it would be lower than some people are making out

Back of a fag box calc;

513000 claiming Covid 19 Benefits
2471700 in Labour Force


Currently around 21% at a conservative guess. Can probably add more dole regulars to that.

tobefrank321

facehugger99 wrote: »

Why haven't you come up with a single alternative to that system yet?

It takes time to come up with revolutionary proposals to anything. Firstly you have to study the problem in detail.

Also unless you have ideas of your own, I don't think you can throw stones?

Numerous approaches can be looked at. The Chinese own several trillion in government bonds. I have no doubt when new bonds are issued including by our own government, the Chinese will buy them up. The Chinese will make a fortune out of this downturn. That is fundamentally wrong.

They by and large caused this downturn, although other countries didn't help themselves.

Strazdas

Dept of Health briefing is at 5.30pm again today

Reckless Abandonment

Tony EH wrote: »

That's just a part of it. The MAIN part is staying at home.

Stay at home for now. It was always going to be relaxed at some point. Like it or not we can't keep people and the economy locked up indefinitely

MOR316

All this talk of wearing masks is seriously putting me in the mood to check out PornHub premium

Martina1991

devnull wrote:

Still little testing in UK

The vast majority of those on hospitalised patients.

+4,000 cases from +7,000 people tested is a lot.

spookwoman

I take it we are still getting our daily fines from the EU

petes

facehugger99 wrote: »

2

How we will run a health, education or SW system with a third of the Country out of work, is a question that the bedroom-dwelling, lockdown-merchants can't answer.

Multiple times now you've been asked what your suggestions are and multiple times you've ignored the question.

Either answer it if you are so knowledgeable or stop posting drivel.