CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) **Read OP**

tobefrank321

Ace2007 wrote: »

Most? Can you provide a source to this please and thank you

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0403/1128300-ppe-covid-19-ireland/

Elsewhere in a large Dublin hospital, nursing staff working on a ward which is exclusively for Covid-19 patients have expressed concern about the density of the material of the protective gowns they have been supplied with.

No mention there of some.

In addition, the HSE said they test the equipment.

In response to questions put to them relating to unusable PPE, the HSE said: "Infection Prevention and Control clinical experts from the HSE undertake product testing on all shipments received in order to assess quality and suitability for use of the equipment.

So they tested the equipment, found it to be too small or too dense, yet still distributed it. Lovely stuff.

Now can I have your source to say that its only a small percentage that's not suitable. Please and Thanks.

tuxy

SuperRabbit wrote: »

https://www.wsj.com/articles/italys-coronavirus-death-toll-is-far-higher-than-reported-11585767179

Italy's reported death rate is 10%+
Very convincing article here saying that is a result of massive under-reporting

Of course it is. Massive lack of testing capabilities in most countries.

FVP3

shocksy wrote: »

Another country conveniently massaging their figures. I wouldn't trust their reports and they are far from flattening the curve.

Oh FFS.

Thre are clearly people here who dont want any good news.

wakka12

SuperRabbit wrote: »

https://www.wsj.com/articles/italys-coronavirus-death-toll-is-far-higher-than-reported-11585767179

Italy's reported death rate is 10%+
Very convincing article here saying that is a result of massive under-reporting

Hundreds..even thousands of tourists became infected after travelling to italy. There has to be at least several million infections in the country

Widdensushi

Urquell wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/some-protection-equipment-from-china-not-ideal-hse-says-1.4219452

Got to move away from China when this is finished. Its not worth whatever we are saving on cheap tat. Important stuff needs to be recentered here, or at a European level at the very least. If we pay more, we pay more.

This has to be the end of it. No excuses.

we have to look at more than that, one of the things giving Ireland a better chance of dealing with this is our relatively low population density, so far we are encouraged to have more kids as it is seen that we need more taxpayers to support an increasing amount of elderly pensioners, that is a pyramid scheme doomed for failure in a world with ever increasing automation.

Rob A. Bank

MarkY91 wrote: »

Unleash the virus on the world and then sell the world dodgy PPE gear.

Those Chinese are a great bunch of lads.....

The Chinese have standards for PPE just like most of the rest of the world and they have recognized manufacturers who meet that standard.

They also have chancers and if you buy stuff on the black market in China, don't expect quality.

FVP3

tobefrank321 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0403/1128300-ppe-covid-19-ireland/



No mention there of some.

In addition, the HSE said they test the equipment.


So they tested the equipment, found it to be too small or too dense, yet still distributed it. Lovely stuff.

Now can I have your source to say that its only a small percentage that's not suitable. Please and Thanks.

The RTE report said "Some", not all, or most, or indeed many.

I wonder if the problem is that chinese people are smaller.There was a pretty big buy there in a gown with a small arm length. Maybe that was a small gown?

FVP3

Widdensushi wrote: »

we have to look at more than that, one of the things giving Ireland a better chance of dealing with this is our relatively low population density, so far we are encouraged to have more kids as it is seen that we need more taxpayers to support an increasing amount of elderly pensioners, that is a pyramid scheme doomed for failure in a world with ever increasing automation.

Eh, who is encouraging us to have more kids? Except the church perhaps.

Drumpot

tuxy wrote: »

The peoples representative in Kerry has made an important statement on the current situation

Can barely string a couple of coherent words together. :pac:

Wibbs

storker wrote: »

Wouldn't it be great if Irish politicians could even manage to string a coherent sentence together? "...about the...the...the...eh...eh...eh..." It's almost unwatchable.

Yeah, that's a cringe inducing embarrassment. A gombeen man that was also dropped on his head as a child.

con747

devnull wrote: »

Update from the UK - Matt Hancock has said they are prepared for more than 1,000 deaths a day for several days.

No other European country has posted a single day of over 1,000 - the UK lockdown coming too late and the too late pivot from herd immunity is likely to result in new records to be set in coming days.

The Conservatives have blood on their hands.

France reported 1355 yesterday after they were made include the cases that died from the virus in nursing homes. Up until then they only reported hospital deaths. I wonder if all countries include ALL virus related deaths not just the hospital cases.

loughside

Ace2007 wrote: »

Don’t be silly of course the poster doesn’t have a source - it’s journalist - write anything look for figures and facts later.

Some PPE not usuable - is that 1% or 20% or does that matter when wanting to sensationalise a story?

It is understood to be from China - could the journalist not get confirmation on the story?

In recent years and with the explosion of online reporting - there is some amount of crap written that doesn’t contain definite information.

Millions of taxpayers euros Pi$$ed up the wall, the Chinese saw you coming.
Serious questions will now be asked.
Were samples inspected before ordering?
Was due diligence and quality control carried out?
Were medical professionals in charge of this multi-million order or just the usual career politicians with the usual `It`ll be gran lads` attitude?

BluePlanet

Dunno if this has been posted yet.
Here is an animated GIF of Weekly US Unemployement claims through the years.
Pretty stunning.

https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1245787069076602880

stephenjmcd

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Sounds like the equipment was cast offs or manufactured for Chinese citizens who are smaller in stature or else outfits more suitable for chemical warfare than day to day working a hospital.

Did they have anyone in China who could take a look over this consignment before it was despatched here? 203 million and no quality control it appears.

No more than the table and flyers at Dublin Airport, the fight against covid19 seems to be led by rank amateurs, from the civilian/non medical side of things.

Your talking utter nonsense yet again.
The supplier is on a list authorized by the WHO, the likes of spain and the Dutch went off on their own hence the issues with what they got being completely faulty.

The articles say some of the gowns aren't full arm length, not all. As was stated yesterday evening some are more heavy duty and wouldn't have been used here before, by tweaking the order I suspect they'll be getting more of these and not the usual gowns you would regularly accustomed to seeing in irish hospitals.

As for the comment about the airport, everyone working there handing out the leaflets was HSE staff, they can't force themselves on people.

So explain how the fight against covid is being led by non medicial people ?? Its being led by the public health emergency team, all doctors. They recommend to gov what actions to take.

threeball

FVP3 wrote: »

Eh, who is encouraging us to have more kids? Except the church perhaps.

Do you think they give a childrens allowance just for the craic. Countries go in to convulsions when they see a negative population growth. Its just not sustainable on any level.

weisses

gozunda wrote: »

Perhaps you could deal with your ignorance of the subject by at least doing some fuking research before castigated others.

No point ... If you cannot differentiate between Mild moderate and severe

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30198-5/fulltext

Children who had ground-glass opacities also had pneumonia ... which by definition is not a mild symptom ....Article I posted state that Mild pneumonia is considered a moderate symptom.

Do you understand this ? ...

circadian

paw patrol wrote: »

he was spot on , fair play to him for saying it

He's a ****ing idiot. Raging that he can't attend funerals to electoneer.

stephenjmcd

loughside wrote: »

Millions of taxpayers euros Pi$$ed up the wall, the Chinese saw you coming.
Serious questions will now be asked.
Were samples inspected before ordering?
Was due diligence and quality control carried out?
Were medical professionals in charge of this multi-million order or just the usual career politicians with the usual `It`ll be gran lads` attitude?

The answer to your questions are all contained within articles online, I suggest you read them before having a politicians bashing session

mcmoustache

storker wrote: »

Wouldn't it be great if Irish politicians could even manage to string a coherent sentence together? "...about the...the...the...eh...eh...eh..." It's almost unwatchable.

What's the gist of his rambling? I don't think I fancy trying to decipher it myself. Is it some "Peeeepel of kiurrry need to thrive to de pubs" kind of thing?

ShayNanigan

owlbethere wrote: »

Do you have any links for them reports please?

A couple of months ago - how many months ago? - Before the Christmas? January?

It was in January and February. Australia has now banned exporting medical supplies to China.

https://www.thechronicle.com.au/news/australia-was-drained-of-masks-for-china/3981857/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/china-bulk-bought-medical-supplies-abroad-before-crisis-hit-556gj7gn3

I remember reading these news from various European countries. I'll post if I can find them.

tuxy

Drumpot wrote: »

Can barely string a couple of coherent words together. :pac:

Was the bar in the Dail open on the sly yesterday?

joe_99

Drumpot wrote: »

Can barely string a couple of coherent words together. :pac:

Important contribution there from Danny. One of our great intellectuals.

threeball

loughside wrote: »

Millions of taxpayers euros Pi$$ed up the wall, the Chinese saw you coming.
Serious questions will now be asked.
Were samples inspected before ordering?
Was due diligence and quality control carried out?
Were medical professionals in charge of this multi-million order or just the usual career politicians with the usual `It`ll be gran lads` attitude?

The chinese are doing this to everyone. Its not just us and its time the world wised up and went back to indigenous manufacturing. In europe we should be 95% self sufficient. That should be europes real strength.

Nermal

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/most-workplaces-to-close-schools-will-move-to-full-home-based-learning-from-next

Suppression doesn't work, even in the countries where it does.

mcmoustache

circadian wrote: »

He's a ****ing idiot. Raging that he can't attend funerals to electoneer.

Thanks for that. I didn't want to watch it myself but this isn't surprising from that gobshíte.

sudzs

Drumpot wrote: »

Can barely string a couple of coherent words together. :pac:

Drunk???

FVP3

Urquell wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/some-protection-equipment-from-china-not-ideal-hse-says-1.4219452

Got to move away from China when this is finished. Its not worth whatever we are saving on cheap tat. Important stuff needs to be recentered here, or at a European level at the very least. If we pay more, we pay more.

This has to be the end of it. No excuses.

Good luck with that one. As Tim Cook said the reason why Apple manufacturers in China/Asia isn't the wage cost but the factory expertise they have and the concentration of the supply chain. Except for Germany that's mostly gone in the West. I too think it was a bad idea to let neoliberal capitalists send everything to China to reduce costs ( not to reduce the prices they charge, that's not how capitalism works). Now that China is able to compete on quality and reduce western companies profits rather than wages they are crying foul.

By the way. The IT says:

Any issues identified in the first batch received during this week are being fed back to be addressed in subsequent orders. Some elements of the first batch are not ideal but may be usable if an alternative supply is not available.”

So this is probably standard problems with a relatively new and quickly sourced equipment, a red rag to the sinophobes nevertheless.

circadian

mcmoustache wrote: »

Thanks for that. I didn't want to watch it myself but this isn't surprising from that gobshíte.

Something about Leo thanking the Chinese for the equipment but we wouldn't need to be thanking them if they'd kept the virus to themselves or some other drivel. I dunno. ****ing eejit.

FVP3

loughside wrote: »

Millions of taxpayers euros Pi$$ed up the wall, the Chinese saw you coming.
Serious questions will now be asked.
Were samples inspected before ordering?
Was due diligence and quality control carried out?
Were medical professionals in charge of this multi-million order or just the usual career politicians with the usual `It`ll be gran lads` attitude?

The irish time and the RTE article had information on that.

Wibbs

weisses wrote: »

No point ... If you cannot differentiate between Mild moderate and severe

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30198-5/fulltext

Children who had ground-glass opacities also had pneumonia ... which by definition is not a mild symptom ....Article I posted state that Mild pneumonia is considered a moderate symptom.

Do you understand this ? ... I cannot make it any more simplistic sorry

Well W, mild is simply doesn't require hospitalisation and will resolve naturally, or with over over the counter symptom reduction medications. That's "mild" in a medical sense. If you ever had a flu and suffered badly with it, thinking you were dying at first and then wishing you were, maybe a GP visit and antibiotics for an opportunistic secondary bacterial dose which made you feel worse and then had weeks of being utterly knackered? It may not have felt like it, but that's "mild".

tobefrank321

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Your talking utter nonsense yet again.
The supplier is on a list authorized by the WHO, the likes of spain and the Dutch went off on their own hence the issues with what they got being completely faulty.

The articles say some of the gowns aren't full arm length, not all. As was stated yesterday evening some are more heavy duty and wouldn't have been used here before, by tweaking the order I suspect they'll be getting more of these and not the usual gowns you would regularly accustomed to seeing in irish hospitals.

As for the comment about the airport, everyone working there handing out the leaflets was HSE staff, they can't force themselves on people.

So explain how the fight against covid is being led by non medicial people ?? Its being led by the public health emergency team, all doctors. They recommend to gov what actions to take.

Nope, you are wrong. One large hospital said the kit was unsuitable for them. They didn't say some or a small percentage. They said the kit was UNSUITABLE. again I will repeat no mention of a percentage or some.

A basic 5 minute check before this flight took off would have told us. We even sent out Aer Lingus flights for it. How the hell did they sign off on this without a basic check? Do you call that competence? You probably do!

What do you mean by tweaking the order they will be getting more short sleeved gowns? I presume that's a typo?

The short sleeve gowns are sh*te, unusable.

So its you talking nonsense as usual.

Sofiztikated

mcmoustache wrote: »

What's the gist of his rambling? I don't think I fancy trying to decipher it myself. Is it some "Peeeepel of kiurrry need to thrive to de pubs" kind of thing?

He wanted Leo to thank the Chinese for the virus.

I think.

boardz

bennyl10

loughside wrote: »

Millions of taxpayers euros Pi$$ed up the wall, the Chinese saw you coming.
Serious questions will now be asked.
Were samples inspected before ordering?
Was due diligence and quality control carried out?
Were medical professionals in charge of this multi-million order or just the usual career politicians with the usual `It`ll be gran lads` attitude?

And here is an example of not bothering to read any of the article to have a nice govt rant.
They were inspected but it was a huge order, some were too small

It’s a small amount and they’re feeding back the issues to the supplier.

The gowns are small, it’s not like they’re made out of cookies.

All the order is WHO compliant. This is the important bit.

Ace2007

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Nope, you are wrong. One large hospital said the kit was unsuitable for them. They didn't say some or a small percentage. They said the kit was UNSUITABLE. again I will repeat no mention of a percentage or some.

A basic 5 minute check before this flight took off would have told us. We even sent out Aer Lingus flights for it. How the hell did they sign off on this without a basic check? Do you call that competence? You probably do!

What do you mean by tweaking the order they will be getting more short sleeved gowns? I presume that's a typo?

The short sleeve gowns are sh*te, unusable.

So its you talking nonsense as usual.

The article that you linked me to said that part of the assignment.... not all of it - part of it - but no mention of what % - so part of the assignment could be 10%, if it was very high they would have used lanagiage like the majority of the shipment was found to be unsuitable.

I love how you say a basic 5 minute check of millions a gowns - this is when the pilots weren’t even allowed to leave the plane - they had to stay on the aircraft While being uploaded to the plane .

Why don’t you offer to go out next time and do the basic check.

But please frank continue to bash the people trying to help instead of doing something yourself. You’d swear no other country in the world has problems getting materials

Boggles

FVP3 wrote: »

Good luck with that one. As Tim Cook said the reason why Apple manufacturers in China/Asia isn't the wage cost but the factory expertise

Tim is talking out of his bollíx. You don't become a trillion dollar company without some human rights being violated.



That said the Chinese do produce world class products and a leader in expertise in certain sectors.

So no, it's no all "cheap tat".

FVP3

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Nope, you are wrong. One large hospital said the kit was unsuitable for them. They didn't say some or a small percentage. They said the kit was UNSUITABLE. .

Source? Any report I have seen said some.

Dcully

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

Covid 19 antibody/serology/blood tests (as opposed to the PCR/viral RNA/swab tests that Ireland is doing) have two potential uses:

(1) Identify donors of antibodies/plasma to treat the critically ill,
(2) Identify immune(?) people, who can return to work quickly, especially in the frontline

The test in the tweet below is Fastep by Assure Tech (named in FIND's WHO-linked list of suppliers).

https://twitter.com/HandtevyMD/status/1245832946612711424

https://twitter.com/JAMA_current/status/1243599613761896448

https://www.finddx.org/covid-19/pipeline/?section=immunoassays#diag_tab

The flu i had was like nothing ever before, did not get sleep for 4 days and nights i actually thought i was going insane why i simply could not sleep while i was exhausted.
My wife is a nurse and also never saw anything like it.
If not conronavirus it was something radically different than your typical flu, last time i was anywhere near that sick i was in my early twenties with glandular fever but this was worse.

Quantum Erasure

weisses wrote: »

No point ... If you cannot differentiate between Mild moderate and severe

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30198-5/fulltext

Children who had ground-glass opacities also had pneumonia ... which by definition is not a mild symptom ....Article I posted state that Mild pneumonia is considered a moderate symptom.

Do you understand this ? ...

Anything that's not severe is classed as mild, that includes moderate cases

Edit. or as Wibbs said above^

stephenjmcd

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Nope, you are wrong. One large hospital said the kit was unsuitable for them. They didn't say some or a small percentage. They said the kit was UNSUITABLE. again I will repeat no mention of a percentage or some.

A basic 5 minute check before this flight took off would have told us. We even sent out Aer Lingus flights for it. How the hell did they sign off on this without a basic check? Do you call that competence? You probably do!

What do you mean by tweaking the order they will be getting more short sleeved gowns? I presume that's a typo?

The short sleeve gowns are sh*te, unusable.

So its you talking nonsense as usual.

I'll refer you to the Irish times article with quotes
"Any issues identified in the first batch received during this week are being fed back to be addressed in subsequent orders. Some elements of the first batch are not ideal but may be usable if an alternative supply is not available.”

With order tweaking no I am not saying get more of the short sleeve gowns. Read what was said. Some of the gowns are heavy duty and would never have been seen in Ireland before, I'd suspect that they are the ones you commonly see being used in China and Italy at the moment for example. My partner is a nurse so I'm waiting to hear back I'll update you when I do.

The WHO has the supplier on the approved list for quality control, just because they're short on the arms doesn't mean the quality isn't there. Everyone is working across the world to get PPE, mistakes like some short arms might happen like anything else these things happen and they're being addressed clearly. The HSE have been pretty upfront about that.

I'm not going to get into a tit for tat argument but read other posts quoting articles as well and your overall argument doesn't stand up

nelly17

I know an undertaker who was in a Nursing Home and he was saying that the doctors cant stand over the cause of death because test results are not back when someone has passed - which in effect means we dont really have an accurate figure on deaths on a given day , its not so much that numbers are being massaged more that they can not be accurate in a very fluid situation without massive lab capicity to perform tests.

Timberrrrrrrr

paw patrol wrote: »

he was spot on , fair play to him for saying it

You understood that?

Sam Russell

tobefrank321 wrote: »

I think Gates should stick to what he's good at, making computers.

Vaccines are a complicated business and best left to those with experience in the field.

If you rush a cv19 vaccine or get it wrong, you could end up giving narcolepsy or the like to a perfectly healthy individual who might have only got a mild dose of cv19 or none at all. In fact I'd nearly prefer a mild dose of cv19 if it could be guaranteed than a vaccine that hasn't been rigorously tested.

And maybe that's the route they should be going down, identify the mildest strain of covid 19 and immunise volunteers with a low viral load. And then study the results.

Bill Gates does not make - nor ever did - make computers. He made his money by the fortuitous deal he did with IBM when it was looking for a DOS for its IBM PC. He made software not hardware - or his company did.

However, he does have experience through his foundation in combating polio and other nasties.

He is suggestion that the 7 vaccine candidates are identified and that they be brought to production while the candidates go through testing. The ones that make it through testing will then be already in production, while the others are scrapped. It wastes US$ billions, but so what - the US Gov are wasting US$ trillions in the fight against this virus.

He does have a track record in this.

Lolle06

shocksy wrote: »

Another country conveniently massaging their figures. I wouldn't trust their reports and they are far from flattening the curve.

What makes you say that? According to german newspaper they are testing extensively and 90% of tested ppl are Covid-19 negative.

FVP3

Boggles wrote: »

Tim is talking out of his bollíx. You don't become a trillion dollar company without some human rights being violated.


That said the Chinese do produce world class products and a leader in expertise in certain sectors.

So no, it's no all "cheap tat".

I suppose some human rights are violated but thats not relevant to my point . He says they have the best factory management and process engineers. Not just China but Asia. Implying thats not available in the west.

Labour isn't a significant cost of the manufacture of the iPhone.

Anyway if they have all the factories and we don't the process of just kicking China out of the world economy would be long and laborious, and probably doomed to failure.

gabeeg

It's kind of funny that we had that military escort from the airport for midget sized PPE

10000maniacs

gmisk wrote: »

The cause of coronavirus according to a dup councillor....gay people and abortion...I should have guessed!
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dup-politician-did-not-intend-to-cause-hurt-when-linking-coronavirus-to-abortion-law-1.4219288

“I was laughed at and mocked by some but as I said at the time, they laughed at Noah until the rain started. You reap what you sow and our nation is now reaping the judgment of God because of an immoral and corrupt government...It is time to repent and turn again to the God of our fathers.”

You can keep your United Ireland if idiots of this calibre become fellow countrymen.

ninebeanrows

Aerlingus from Beijing just landed

paw patrol

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You understood that?

I've spent a long time there I speak fluent kerry

Dcully

gabeeg wrote: »

It's kind of funny that we had that military escort from the airport for midget sized PPE

#

Yeah hilarious :cool: but i take your point.