CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) **Read OP**

lawred2

ShayNanigan wrote: »

A couple of months ago it was widely reported in several countries that Chinese people were instructed to buy masks, gloves, hand sanitiser, soap, paracetamol etc. to send home. Who knows how much was sent but reports from various countries seem to point at least hundreds of thousands if not more.

Such tripe

Reported where by whom?

ITman88

Ace2007 wrote: »

Why can’t the afford to? Serious question?

Do you think people will care about work if their loved one get sick or dies because some people don’t want the restrictions in place?

A poster questions how long does it make sense to hand out €350 every week before restrictions are slightly relaxed?

Answer: Some populist response about loved ones sick and dying.

BattleCorp

smelly sock wrote: »

The country can't afford the cluster **** of the 350euro payment for long. That's one reason.

The country can't afford another long term recession that's another reason.

And the answer to your other question.

Yes I think people will care about being out of work and having no income even if loved ones die. It doesn't mean they care less. It's human nature. The two of them aren't linear.

I can't afford to die from COVID-19. I can afford to go through another recession because things recover eventually. The dead don't recover.

gabeeg

BattleCorp wrote: »

I can't afford to die from COVID-19. I can afford to go through another recession because things recover eventually. The dead don't recover.

Ah c'mon, be a team player

Ace2007

ITman88 wrote: »

A poster questions how long does it make sense to hand out €350 every week before restrictions are slightly relaxed?

Answer: Some populist response about loved ones sick and dying.

12 weeks initially and then they will re-evaluate. There is also the national response where you’ll get paid to help your country.

Sure we pay people 200€ a week on the dole and have done for years - even at height of last recession

ITman88

BattleCorp wrote: »

I can't afford to die from COVID-19. I can afford to go through another recession because things recover eventually. The dead don't recover.

People die both ways.

It takes very little of an economic slump to claim more lives than covid

smelly sock

Ace2007 wrote: »

Central bank estimated that unemployment could hit 25% by end of summer, given that 4% usually always unemployed thats 21% of the workforce that will be unemployed- that means there are still 79% working in some capacity.

The recession that follows won’t be like the other one - which was driven on collapse of banks. This is a world wide issue - and which case once the vaccine gets rolled out - economies with get back on their feet.

You can blame anyone for the recession that’s coming - society will work together and get the country running again just like society is working together to fight this virus and help the vulnerable of our society

I'd like to think your idealistic view of things is accurate but in reality the banks and big pharmas will fleece countries and there citizens.

Some Economists are claiming that this recession could be worse than the last. Some are claiming it won't be. Don't think we need in any case.

The dole payment in recession years was 188. Now it's 350 if you have been laid off work due to Covid. The Maths just don't work.

Again people will only put up with lockdown for so long. The govt know this. People will flout this once they need to return to jobs.

If this current period can flatten the curve then there is no need to extend lockdowns. Talk of doing so is negligent.

BattleCorp

ITman88 wrote: »

People die both ways.

It takes very little of an economic slump to claim more lives than covid

Does it really? I'm assuming you are talking about suicide? I don't remember there being 10 - 15 suicides per day during the last recession. But there are 10 - 15 deaths now due to COVID-19.

I'll concede that there will be health cutbacks in a recession and that will claim a few lives but it's nowhere near the potential for death that COVID-19 poses if it was allowed to run rampant through society.

owlbethere

ShayNanigan wrote: »

It was in January and February. Australia has now banned exporting medical supplies to China.

https://www.thechronicle.com.au/news/australia-was-drained-of-masks-for-china/3981857/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/china-bulk-bought-medical-supplies-abroad-before-crisis-hit-556gj7gn3

I remember reading these news from various European countries. I'll post if I can find them.

Thanks for this. I do vaguely remember these reports. January/February timeline isn't too bad. It was discovered and kicking off there in January.

I would be more alarmed if they were snapping up supplies months before December last and before this new virus was discovered.

igCorcaigh

ITman88 wrote: »

People die both ways.

It takes very little of an economic slump to claim more lives than covid

That's a consequence of decision making, not an inevitability.

gabeeg

smelly sock wrote: »

I'd like to think your idealistic view of things is accurate but in reality the banks and big pharmas will fleece countries and there citizens.

Some Economists are claiming that this recession could be worse than the last. Some are claiming it won't be. Don't think we need in any case.

The dole payment in recession years was 188. Now it's 350 if you have been laid off work due to Covid. The Maths just don't work.

Again people will only put up with lockdown for so long. The govt know this. People will flout this once they need to return to jobs.

If this current period can flatten the curve then there is no need to extend lockdowns. Talk of doing so is negligent.

It's because of people like this that restrictions are likely to tighten.
Our 2km exercise zone will go to 0km, and heavy fines will be put in place.

tuxy

tuxy wrote: »

The peoples representative in Kerry has made an important statement on the current situation

There was a great statement made by Marc O'Cathasaigh (GP) yesterday in the Dail followed up by a good statement by Gary Gannon (SD). I wouldn't listen to Danny Healy Rae in a pub.

kilkenny31

BattleCorp wrote: »

I can't afford to die from COVID-19. I can afford to go through another recession because things recover eventually. The dead don't recover.

There has to be a balance. From Ireland point of view our Initial measures were enough to keep things relatively under control. I think we should return to those. Open up building sites in the next 2-3 weeks as it is a major driver of the economy and going by our numbers the initial restrictions were enough. Also hardware stores and DIY stores etc should still be open although they should have limited amount of people in store etc, at least while people are at home they are spending money and carrying out work at home.

smelly sock

BattleCorp wrote: »

I can't afford to die from COVID-19. I can afford to go through another recession because things recover eventually. The dead don't recover.

This is yet another "think of the kids" type sensational post. I bet more people will recover from contracting Covid than will recover from the suicide rate spiralling due to a recession.

We are currently taking the correct steps to protect ourselves from the sread of this virus. But it's not a long term solution.

I think we all know that anymore than 3-4 weeks of a lockdown isn't going to work .

Funsterdelux

ITman88 wrote: »

People die both ways.

It takes very little of an economic slump to claim more lives than covid

To die both ways, you only live twice Mr Itman88

SeaBreezes

joseywhales wrote: »

I am having a big problem with my wife's volunteering. I want to support it but she is too passive and she is endangering herself and others because of a greedy doctor she is babysitting for.

I should start by saying we live in the us before I incur the wrath of tired Irish medical staff. My wife since she is not working, volunteered to babysit for medical staff, which I am ok with even with the extra risk, we need to work together etc.

To my absolute dismay, they insisted on paying her(we don't need anymore happy to do it for free) which made me suspicious . So it turns out the husband who works in urgent care runs a legal cannibas delivery business, which he is still f*cking running, dozens of deliveries per day, meeting lots of people, does not even wash his hands when he returns home. I am so pissed, he brags that she should get into the weed business because it's pays more than medicine, all why endangering our lives, for something that we decided would be a good way to give back to people under pressure. She won't confront him, I don't want to be the bad husband who dictates what his wife can do with her life but this is absolute madness right?

I am a member of many Facebook groups in regards autism.
From what I read, families with aggressive kids swear by the medical cannabis to avoid physical aggression and their kids destroying the house. For many it's a lifeline that enables the family to function without injury. I can imagine that only increases during a lockdown. From what I have read it does seem to be an essential service.
But from having postal/supermarket goods delivered here, there is no contact.
Boxes are dropped at a safe distance and we collect.

Perhaps the hand washing, care taking would be something to mention as it worries her.

Sam Russell

Urquell wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/some-protection-equipment-from-china-not-ideal-hse-says-1.4219452

Got to move away from China when this is finished. Its not worth whatever we are saving on cheap tat. Important stuff needs to be recentered here, or at a European level at the very least. If we pay more, we pay more.

This has to be the end of it. No excuses.

We already do this with food. Why not everything?

gabeeg

smelly sock wrote: »

This is yet another "think of the kids" type sensational post. I bet more people will recover from contracting Covid than will recover from the suicide rate spiralling due to a recession.

We are currently taking the correct steps to protect ourselves from the sread of this virus. But it's not a long term solution.

I think we all know that anymore than 3-4 weeks of a lockdown isn't going to work .

I think there's a majority that's prepared to do this for months to protect front-line staff and loved ones.

ITman88

BattleCorp wrote: »

Does it really? I'm assuming you are talking about suicide? I don't remember there being 10 - 15 suicides per day during the last recession. But there are 10 - 15 deaths now due to COVID-19.

I'll concede that there will be health cutbacks in a recession and that will claim a few lives but it's nowhere near the potential for death that COVID-19 poses if it was allowed to run rampant through society.

Seemingly not so.

The health care effects are massive.

Some boffins in the UK did a study last week

http://jvalue.co.uk/papers/J-value-assessment-of-combating-Covid-19-Thomas-23.3.2020.pdf

RugbyLad11

BattleCorp wrote: »

I can't afford to die from COVID-19. I can afford to go through another recession because things recover eventually. The dead don't recover.

Don't be so dramatic, unless you're over 85 the odds of you dying are extremely low

smelly sock

gabeeg wrote: »

I think there's a majority that's prepared to do this for months to protect front-line staff and loved ones.

Probably the ones guaranteed their income in spite of this.

Talk to lads gone from 700 or 800 a week to 350 and they will more than likely have a different opinion.

kilkenny31

Sam Russell wrote: »

We already do this with food. Why not everything?

Yeah. I really hope we adopt to a quality rather than quantity approach to our lives. Our homes are full of cheap Chinese crap that we don't really need. It's terrible for the environment and its a waste of money. That money would be much better spent purchasing quality product from European factories where people are well paid. We should defiantly make essential products in Europe.

BattleCorp

smelly sock wrote: »

This is yet another "think of the kids" type sensational post. I bet more people will recover from contracting Covid than will recover from the suicide rate spiralling due to a recession.

We are currently taking the correct steps to protect ourselves from the sread of this virus. But it's not a long term solution.

I think we all know that anymore than 3-4 weeks of a lockdown isn't going to work .

My mental state is quite good so I don't consider myself at risk of suicide. On the other hand, I have mild asthma and slightly high blood pressure so I would be at risk of getting a bad dose of COVID-19. So I'm thinking of myself here in a realistic way. It's not a case of 'think of the kids'.

As soon as we lift restrictions, you'll see a spike in cases the following month.

Why do you think more than a 3 - 4 week lockdown won't work? Yes, some might flout it, but the vast majority won't flout it because they have a bit of cop on.

I think we will be on some sort of lockdown until the middle of the Summer at least.

bekker

FVP3 wrote: »

The RTE report said "Some", not all, or most, or indeed many.

I wonder if the problem is that chinese people are smaller.There was a pretty big buy there in a gown with a small arm length. Maybe that was a small gown?

Unfortunately I have the feeling that this stems from our procurement process, China produces excellent products across a wide range of items,
but those producers are mainly high volume items meeting exacting standards imposed by the purchasers, it costs appropriately.

China also produces a myriad of cheap tat, with counterfeits of counterfeits of counterfeits, all with impressively stamped faked copies of faked certificates.

Anybody with even slightest experience of buying Asian manufactured clothing knows that S, M, L have little or no equivalence in a European context, if you want European sizing you have to specify it in detail.

Since this was organised with the assistance of the Chinese government, the quality is probably OK, the fit would be be a whole different ball game if we made assumptions.

ITman88

smelly sock wrote: »

Probably the ones guaranteed their income in spite of this.

Talk to lads gone from 700 or 800 a week to 350 and they will more than likely have a different opinion.

Yeah I think anyone with grown up/no kids, mortgage paid/ nearly paid will have a different view of the restrictions than others. €350 won’t do much for the 2 kids and mortgage/bills and a car or 2.

A friend rang me a few days ago to say he was laid off from a med devices plant. I was shocked I thought they would weather this easily.

BattleCorp

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

Don't be so dramatic, unless you're over 85 the odds of you dying are extremely low

I've some mild enough underlying conditions so I'd rather not play Russian roulette.

devnull

smelly sock wrote: »

Probably the ones guaranteed their income in spite of this.

Talk to lads gone from 700 or 800 a week to 350 and they will more than likely have a different opinion.

Yeah, I mean 350 a week is a pittance isn't it.

It may not be what people are used to, but think about those who were on the dole before this situation and the financial crisis for far less than that

Wombatman

FishOnABike wrote: »

Only after the virus has had its chance to work its way through that population, which will take longer for a larger population.

In a larger population a virus can continue to spread for longer and at an ever increasing rate if not brought under control and therefore has a greater potential for its propagation rate and the numbers presenting for medical care to spiral out of control.

When infection + exposure rates are significantly lower than the rates needed for herd immunity begin to gave any significant effect comparing absolute numbers is more relevant to how well the outbreak is being managed in different areas / countries.

At this time relative numbers are a good inducation how the effect might be felt within an area / country.

"spread for longer and at an ever increasing rate". What? It takes longer, faster?

Are your talking about population density or size?

You can only compare between countries in per capita terms.

facehugger99

ITman88 wrote: »

People die both ways.

It takes very little of an economic slump to claim more lives than covid

Unfortunately those deaths don't attract the same level of breast-beating from the social-media heroes , so presumably won't count as much.

smelly sock

BattleCorp wrote: »

My mental state is quite good so I don't consider myself at risk of suicide. On the other hand, I have mild asthma and slightly high blood pressure so I would be at risk of getting a bad dose of COVID-19. So I'm thinking of myself here in a realistic way. It's not a case of 'think of the kids'.

As soon as we lift restrictions, you'll see a spike in cases the following month.

Why do you think more than a 3 - 4 week lockdown won't work? Yes, some might flout it, but the vast majority won't flout it because they have a bit of cop on.

I think we will be on some sort of lockdown until the middle of the Summer at least.

The long term measure will probably more of the social distancing , working from home where possible and restrictions on pub opening hours . Hopefully we will do enough with the current lockdown to alleviate the need for increasing it.

Ace2007

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

Don't be so dramatic, unless you're over 85 the odds of you dying are extremely low

Dramatic?

Where you get the 85 number from - just pluck that from the sky?

What if you are under 86 with cancer or other lung diseases? - sure who cares about them - is that your attitude?

It also won’t matter what age you are id we get to stage where no ICU beds available or ventilators - your 35 and need one and none available - your odds will shoot up

Tacitus Kilgore

devnull wrote: »

Yeah, I mean 350 a week is a pittance isn't it.

It may not be what people are used to, but think about those who were on the dole before this situation and the financial crisis for far less than that

Or the poor hoors still working, dealing face on with the public, and not getting much more

smelly sock

devnull wrote: »

Yeah, I mean 350 a week is a pittance isn't it.

It may not be what people are used to, but think about those who were on the dole before this situation and the financial crisis for far less than that

Peoples outgoings.

350 is decent if you have no Mortgage or bills or loans etc.

RugbyLad11

Ace2007 wrote: »

Dramatic?

Where you get the 85 number from - just pluck that from the sky?

What if you are under 86 with cancer or other lung diseases? - sure who cares about them - is that your attitude?

It also won’t matter what age you are id we get to stage where no ICU beds available or ventilators - your 35 and need one and none available - your odds will shoot up

85 was the average age of death in Italy the last time I checked and I believe ours is similar too

ITman88

kilkenny31 wrote: »

Yeah. I really hope we adopt to a quality rather than quantity approach to our lives. Our homes are full of cheap Chinese crap that we don't really need. It's terrible for the environment and its a waste of money. That money would be much better spent purchasing quality product from European factories where people are well paid. We should defiantly make essential products in Europe.

Expect to pay €5000 for a phone or tv, affordable luxuries will disappear if we move to European only production.

1800_Ladladlad

The Dept of Social Protection won’t report illegal migrants who claim dole. So a migrant living in Ireland illegally who wants to claim the new and improved €350 a week social welfare payment as a result of Coronavirus, without an issue.

These are illegals. Not asylum seekers, or people who have migrated legitimately. We are rewarding crime and people who broke the law yet provide much less to the Irish, asylum seekers and migrants. People like my uncle who lost their jobs just before the government copped on, a job they worked in for 19 years they lost because of cv19. They were audited and is only getting €204?? Disgusting!!!!

https://twitter.com/welfare_ie/status/1245639097630085120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1245639097630085120&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fgript.ie%2Fsocial-protection-migrants-dole%2F

devnull

smelly sock wrote: »

Peoples outgoings.

350 is decent if you have no Mortgage or bills or loans etc.

Do you think that anyone to have lost their job on 188 quid a week before this didn't have these as well?

Also Banks are helping people with loans and mortgages as well, something that those on half of €350 a week never got help with.

Sir Oxman

smelly sock wrote: »

Peoples outgoings.

350 is decent if you have no Mortgage or bills or loans etc.

there are things in place for mortgages and loans and indeed some bills.

(The mortgage one is typical bank fleecing but it is there)

Sofiztikated

facehugger99 wrote: »

Unfortunately those deaths don't attract the same level of breast-beating from the social-media heroes , so presumably won't count as much.

What deaths, those by suicide?

You forgetting about the "It's OK to not be OK" that's been everywhere, the trying to destignatise mental health that everyone has been doing?

Give it a ****ing rest, you're getting tiresome.

I'd say you give less than 2 fiddlers ****s about it.

Ace2007

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

85 was the average age of death in Italy the last time I checked and I believe ours is similar too

I look forward to showing me back up in ireland - the median gets reported a lot - and that is very different meaning than a average - which I’m sure your well aware of

smelly sock

Sir Oxman wrote: »

there are things in place for mortgages and loans and indeed some bills.

(The mortgage one is typical bank fleecing but it is there)

The banks won't agree to any longer than the 3 months that's for sure. And then they are just piling it onto the current term.

yourdeadwright

Ace2007 wrote: »

12 weeks initially and then they will re-evaluate. There is also the national response where you’ll get paid to help your country.

Sure we pay people 200€ a week on the dole and have done for years - even at height of last recession

I don't get this 350 a week thing ,

Now I'm lucky I have never been on the dole in my life and again I'm lucky i'm still working but iv noticed last two months I have spent way less than I normally would,

Basically all Iv spent money on is mortgage/bills and food, nothing none essential , Why do people on the dole all of a sudden need more money ?

I'm not giving out about it I'm asking what is the reason ?
Surely iv missed something obvious here ?

Is this just for people new to the dole because of this ?

ITman88

Ace2007 wrote: »

I look forward to showing me back up in ireland - the median gets reported a lot - and that is very different meaning than a average - which I’m sure your well aware of

Everything gets reported very unusually.

Like the death rate from this thing

bilston

So the death toll in the UK has just surpassed China's...how can anyone take China's figures seriously at this stage.

Almost 40,000 dead in Europe, 13 times the amount to die in China...hmmmm

Sir Oxman

smelly sock wrote: »

The banks won't agree to any longer than the 3 months that's for sure. And then they are just piling it onto the current term.

Well, let's wait and see.
Donohoe has to up his game with the banks if the 'goodwill' to FG is to sustain for a start.
The fact is, the schemes are in place.

RugbyLad11

Ace2007 wrote: »

I look forward to showing me back up in ireland - the median gets reported a lot - and that is very different meaning than a average - which I’m sure your well aware of

It doesn't matter if Ireland reports median age.

Just look at the average age of deaths in other counties and it in the 80's. So unless Ireland is doing something terribly wrong and our young people are dying I would say Ireland's average death rate is in line with other countries...aka elderly people

Wombatman

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

The Dept of Social Protection won’t report illegal migrants who claim dole. So a migrant living in Ireland illegally who wants to claim the new and improved €350 a week social welfare payment as a result of Coronavirus, without an issue.

These are illegals. Not asylum seekers, or people who have migrated legitimately. We are rewarding crime and people who broke the law yet provide much less to the Irish, asylum seekers and migrants. People like my uncle who lost their jobs just before the government copped on, a job they worked in for 19 years they lost because of cv19. They were audited and is only getting €204?? Disgusting!!!!

https://twitter.com/welfare_ie/status/1245639097630085120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1245639097630085120&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fgript.ie%2Fsocial-protection-migrants-dole%2F

Don't you need a PPS number to claim?

Doctors room ghost

Rip bill withers
Ain’t no more sunshine

BanditLuke

ITman88 wrote: »

Expect to pay €5000 for a phone or tv, affordable luxuries will disappear if we move to European only production.

Good. I won't miss a phone or TV. Some things are more important than luxuries.

gabeeg

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

Rip bill withers
Ain’t no more sunshine

ah balls