CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) **Read OP**

caveat emptor

kmart6 wrote: »

Be worth posting the response form the next day:

https://twitter.com/EleanorMargolis/status/1243933471904587777?s=20

Not seen. The fact he tried to do it is news worthy enough.

Computer says no Britain in action.

Marsden35

threeball wrote: »

It's weird how Spain was so badly affected by the 1918 flu that they named it after the country despite it originating in America and now they are being savagely hit again. Is there more to this than sheer bad luck?

Spanish Flu was thought more likely from China or Chinese merchant in the USA.

Nordic countries have not been hit too hard, yet likes of Italy and Spain have. I suspect that's because not many people travel to Nordic countries during the winter, yet Spain and Italy are popular pretty much year round. So they got seeded with the virus much more heavily than other countries.

otnomart

josip wrote: »

What's going to happen now in the Netherlands?
Their ICUs are effectively full.
https://www.covid-19.no/netherlands-905-out-of-925-icu-beds-in-use


Are they going to do Italian/Spanish triaging or do they have another plan?
Weren't they also going the herd route at some stage?
Are they still?

Measures currently in place until April 6 include the closure of schools, restaurants and museums (non essential shops remain open; religious ceremonies up to 30 people are still allowed)
https://nltimes.nl/2020/03/15/schools-cafes-businesses-closed-apr-6-coronavirus-spread-pm-address-nation

There measures are still geared towards herd immunity.
however, their cabinet will meet with experts and advisers tomorrow.
The press conference is expected at around 7:00 p.m. tomorrow.
https://nltimes.nl/2020/03/30/govt-extend-covid-19-measures-report

wadacrack

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

180 new deaths in the UK.

England +159
Wales +14
Scotland +6
Northern Ireland +1

Seems to be lowering in the UK hopefully. What was England's count in the last 5 days?

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

When did we go over 2k testing?
It was at somewhere between 1700 and 1800 per day only a week or so ago.

Was announced at one of the recent HSE press conferences we're processing 5k tests per day now.

Achasanai

Marsden35 wrote: »

Spanish Flu was thought more likely from China or Chinese merchant in the USA.

I've heard theories about a farm in Kentucky, but never so specific as to a Chinese merchant in the US. Is there a reason why they think this?

kilkenny31

Marsden35 wrote: »

Spanish Flu was thought more likely from China or Chinese merchant in the USA.

Nordic countries have not been hit too hard, yet likes of Italy and Spain have. I suspect that's because not many people travel to Nordic countries during the winter, yet Spain and Italy are popular pretty much year round. So they got seeded with the virus much more heavily than other countries.

More to do with the populations of those countries. Not many big cities etc. Spain and Italy are densely populated. Everyone lives in apartment blocks etc.

kmart6

caveat emptor wrote: »

Not seen. The fact he tried to do it is news worthy enough.

Computer says no Britain in action.

Wouldn't call it newsworthy, it's a spur of the moment video of a local incident that doesn't show the outcome, which was nothing in the end.

caveat emptor

This is brilliant. Everyday is like Monday. Learn how to ice-sculpt

https://twitter.com/jockowillink/status/1244621967753265152?s=20

dePeatrick

threeball wrote: »

It's weird how Spain was so badly affected by the 1918 flu that they named it after the country despite it originating in America and now they are being savagely hit again. Is there more to this than sheer bad luck?

Spain reported correct figures on the 1918 flu unlike most other countries, is it possible they are doing the same again?

Ulysses Gaze

otnomart wrote: »

Measures currently in place until April 6 include the closure of schools, restaurants and museums (non essential shops remain open; religious ceremonies up to 30 people are still allowed)
https://nltimes.nl/2020/03/15/schools-cafes-businesses-closed-apr-6-coronavirus-spread-pm-address-nation

There measures are still geared towards herd immunity.
however, their cabinet will meet with experts and advisers tomorrow.
The press conference is expected at around 7:00 p.m. tomorrow.
https://nltimes.nl/2020/03/30/govt-extend-covid-19-measures-report

So they have **** the bed and Rutte will finally have to admit it.

Not as bad as Lukashenko in Belarus at least.

Although that is not saying much.

bekker

rossie1977 wrote: »

Hungary has been a fascist dictatorship for some time, these new laws just put cherry on the cake.

Please point out the fixed date sunset clause in the Health (Preservation and Protection and other Emergency Measures in the Public Interest) Act 2020, as I have been unable to find it online, only the Bill appears to be available. Clause 2.6 is ambiguous if that was the phraseology enacted

Not in support of Hungarian parliament's decision, not dictatorship as yet just effective one party majority yet.

Merely pointing out the the Bill put forward by the Irish caretaker government, though not as far reaching, was similarly open ended. It was opposition amendments that sought to insert a sunset clause.

poppers

wadacrack wrote: »

Seems to be lowering in the UK hopefully. What was England's count in the last 5 days?

Last 4 days
115
181
260
209

holyhead

Lads everything is going to be fine now. Miriam O'Callaghan has declared on the Rte website she has 'never known a time like this". Thank you Miriam for that profound piece of insight. How much are we paying her?

ShayNanigan

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Have you reported them to the Gardai?

I don't want to get into trouble with people. I sort of thought the Gardai would stop them at some point and fine them or something.

Who knows, maybe some of them are driving away to get tested for all I know. Just a bit irritating to see people carrying on like nothing while I've been at home for over two weeks.

Marsden35

Good figures in from the UK, although there may be another batch later on so I'll hold off before getting too optimistic.

kilkenny31

holyhead wrote: »

Lads everything is going to be fine now. Miriam O'Callaghan has declared on the Rte website she has 'never known a time like this". Thank you Miriam for that profound piece of insight. How much are we paying her?

S**t are you serious. Oh guys this is bad. I though this was nothing.

Martina1991

TommyKnocker wrote: »

With all due respect but surely this cannot be correct as by restricting testing to those who have 2 or more symptoms we are missing a large chunk of people who are asymptomatic and only showing 1 symptom?

Did I not read on these threads that due to the number of people who presented to for testing when the criteria was reduced to a single symptom leading to a huge backlog that the HSE/Government tore up the backlog list and revised the criteria to require the 2 or more symptoms.

I understand the shortage of test kits, facilities to carry our and process the tests and the large number of negative tests, but surely if you want to test for asymptomatic carriers you need to testing all who present, no matter how mild their symptoms are?

The criteria was narrowed to try and detect more cases. Those with more severe symptoms and those in at risk groups have to be identified because they are most likely to need treatment and hospitalisation.

Why would asymtomatic people present for testing. Thats like looking for a needle in a haystack, when we should be looking for the virus in those that already appear to be infected.
Why waste limited resources on those who are most likely the ones who don't have it.

caveat emptor

https://twitter.com/AndyBiotech/status/1244418163741282308?s=20

Kermit.de.frog

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

So they have **** the bed and Rutte will finally have to admit it.

Countries that apply restrictions earliest are getting control quickest.

Ridiculous to see so much time wasted on ideology instead of following the WHO guidelines.

You don't want to be the last country standing with it out of control when everyone around you has it contained because no one will do business with you then.

quokula

bekker wrote: »

Please point out the fixed date sunset clause in the Health (Preservation and Protection and other Emergency Measures in the Public Interest) Act 2020, as I have been unable to find it online, only the Bill appears to be available. Clause 2.6 is ambiguous if that was the phraseology enacted

Not in support of Hungarian parliament's decision, not dictatorship as yet just effective one party majority yet.

Merely pointing out the the Bill put forward by the Irish caretaker government, though not as far reaching, was similarly open ended. It was opposition amendments that sought to insert a sunset clause.

"though not as far reaching" is a bit of an understatement.

Aside from that there's the clear history of Orban's government wanting to move in this direction, in comparison to our government that was accepting it would be going to opposition a couple of months ago but has had its hand forced by world events.

kowloon

Professor Moriarty

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Countries that apply restrictions earliest are getting control quickest.

Ridiculous to see so much time wasted on ideology instead of following the WHO guidelines.

You don't want to be the last country standing with it out of control when everyone around you has it contained because no one will do business with you then.

Keep a watchful eye on Sweden.

cameramonkey

Mallory Dead Self-confidence wrote: »

Was announced at one of the recent HSE press conferences we're processing 5k tests per day now.

When was that? because yesterday they said they were testing 5000 a day, have you a link? it would be encouraging if they were. It would be a good start.

Marsden35

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Keep a watchful eye on Sweden.

Turkey was very slow to act and they have an airport that's an international hub. I expect their cases to explode soon.

kilkenny31

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Keep a watchful eye on Sweden.

That what I'm doing. A similar country to Ireland in terms of population and density. I think they realise that too. They are different to larger European counties so can afford to take a different approach.

holyhead

holyhead wrote: »

Lads everything is going to be fine now. Miriam O'Callaghan has declared on the Rte website she has 'never known a time like this". Thank you Miriam for that profound piece of insight. How much are we paying her?

jasus not enough when she's offering pearls of wisdom like this.
I think a lot in the media are loving this to be honest, they're all trying
to out "ghoul" each other. In general most that work in that industry are scum anyway. Matt cooper must be soiling himself with all this too

Professor Moriarty

Marsden35 wrote: »

Turkey was very slow to act and they have an airport that's an international hub. I expect their cases to explode soon.

True. However, Sweden has much more resources than Turkey but has taken a deliberately lax attitude to containment. It might come back to bite them.

Ardent

Marsden35 wrote: »

Good figures in from the UK, although there may be another batch later on so I'll hold off before getting too optimistic.

I'm not optimisitic having just seen this latest example of social distancing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9X-VRaPHA8

Professor Moriarty

kilkenny31 wrote: »

That what I'm doing. A similar country to Ireland in terms of population and density. I think they realise that too. They are different to larger European counties so can afford to take a different approach.

It's very much out of step. I'd rather our response than theirs.

flatface

kilkenny31 wrote: »

Come on. That is a reassuring statistic. Overall they reckon that 1% of people that get the virus will die. Now they are saying only 2% of people that die will have no underlying condition. So for every ten thousand people that get it 100 will die of those 100 people only two of them will not have had an underlying condition.

depends what the scope of an underlying condition is. There are 380,000 odd asthma sufferers in Ireland, including me, which "have a medical condition that can affect your breathing". I wonder would we be classified as having an underlying condition

sydthebeat

caveat emptor wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AndyBiotech/status/1244418163741282308?s=20

Or we could ask people to cough and sneeze into their elbows...

Same result without removing PPE from front line workers

sonofenoch

dePeatrick wrote: »

Spain reported correct figures on the 1918 flu unlike most other countries, is it possible they are doing the same again?

And it was called Spanish flu because their media were ably free to report on it being neutral in WW1 .....not because they were particularly hit hard by it

Marsden35

Ardent wrote: »

I'm not optimisitic having just seen this latest example of social distancing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9X-VRaPHA8

I find it hard to believe they're all essential workers :rolleyes:

But to be fair to them the government guidelines are to work from home if you can. There isn't a ban on people working, although many companies have voluntarily shut up shop.

caveat emptor

https://twitter.com/ColinDevit/status/1244627754190082048?s=20

AdrianG08

Marsden35 wrote: »

I find it hard to believe they're all essential workers :rolleyes:

But to be fair to them the government guidelines are to work from home if you can. There isn't a ban on people working, although many companies have voluntarily shut up shop.

Exactly, if people have jobs to go to and they can't work from home then its fair enough.

Not hard to believe these people work in essential services either.

caveat emptor

https://twitter.com/QuickTake/status/1244635558590263296?s=20

OscarMIlde

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's very much out of step. I'd rather our response than theirs.

It rather brings to mind their embrace of eugenics during the 1930s.

Mwengwe

caveat emptor wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AndyBiotech/status/1244418163741282308?s=20

So just exhaling is enough to infect someone?

wakka12

Marsden35 wrote: »

Turkey was very slow to act and they have an airport that's an international hub. I expect their cases to explode soon.

Already has, 5000 cases in the last 48 hours. 10,000 overall in just two weeks, over 131 deaths in a country with an average age of 31 would imply a huge number of undetected cases

Rob A. Bank

One month (until yesterday) in one minute.

The exponential rise in cases is well illustrated as well as the rise in numbers in the USA and the way South Korea falls down the table.

Martina1991

cameramonkey wrote: »

Its pretty obvious that the testing system is not fit for purpose but the government don't want to tell people. They need to be clear if things are not working out but the HSE have a history of cover ups.

cameramonkey wrote: »

It's hard to say anything positive when they a have reacted too late to this outbreak and are not doing the basic testing.

cameramonkey wrote: »

how come we have now suspended testing at many centers? How come there are no figures for the amount that have been tested and are being tested per day. How do you know we are testing more than other countries if we have no official numbers?

cameramonkey wrote: »

We seem to be doing about 700 test a day average from the time the outbreak arrived in Ireland.

cameramonkey wrote: »

Again there is a difference between testing and processing those test. It seems the HSE has not published these numbers. Hopefully they are not hiding a poor testing regime but we dont know unfortunately.

cameramonkey wrote: »

You have no idea what the testing and lab performance is so how can you say it is sufficient ?

cameramonkey wrote: »

I think the 2000 has been debunked, we may be testing 2000 and I doubt that with many of the testing station closed. I have not seen any evidence to say we can process more than about 1300 tests a day. I understand that people want to see they best for the country but when the HSE in unable to publish even how many are being tested and processed it smacks of incompetence.

cameramonkey wrote: »

When was that? because yesterday they said they were testing 5000 a day, have you a link? it would be encouraging if they were. It would be a good start.

You keep asking about figures then pull some out of your hole.

Then when posters repsond to you, you disregard what they say and claim reported figures have been debunked.

I wouldn't heed anything you have to say because you don't know what you are talking about.

ShayNanigan

kilkenny31 wrote: »

That what I'm doing. A similar country to Ireland in terms of population and density. I think they realise that too. They are different to larger European counties so can afford to take a different approach.

Sweden has about 10 million people, Finland 5.5, Norway 5.4 and Denmark 5.6 mil. But all of these Nordic countries have very different approaches when it comes to testing, making decisions on isolation and reporting on the cases. Cannot really compare them to Ireland.

caveat emptor

Price of pasta / bread going to change. We don't have milling anymore.


https://twitter.com/QuickTake/status/1244622734438682624?s=20

https://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/odlums-mill-closure-will-increase-bread-flour-imports-183124.html

otnomart

otnomart wrote: »

In Italy, data from flu patients admitted in ICU is: 157 severe cases (of which, 30 deaths).
the estimate of flu patients in Italy from the start of the season (mid October) till week 7 of 2020 is of: 5.632.000 cases.


Official Source: https://www.epicentro.iss.it/influenza/stagione-2019-2020-primo-bilancio


from the chart, this flu season 2019-2020 seems less severe than the two previous ones

30 deaths from 157 severe cases. Thats a 19% fatality rate in those circumstances. Shows that flu is a dangerous thing to get if you end up in hospital with it.

Roger_007

Marsden35 wrote: »

I find it hard to believe they're all essential workers :rolleyes:

But to be fair to them the government guidelines are to work from home if you can. There isn't a ban on people working, although many companies have voluntarily shut up shop.

You cannot maintain physical distance from others when you have a mass transit system like the tube in London. Even on buses you in an enclosed space with dozens of others.
The only effective way to stop the spread is to close down public transport altogether. That’s what they did in Wuhan.
It’s also noteworthy that the hardest hit areas seem to be large densely populated cities with extensive mass transit systems. Just compare Los Angelus and New York which have similar populations. NY has 10 times the number of cases that LA has, probably because NY has a subway and LA doesn’t.

TommyKnocker

Martina1991 wrote: »

The criteria was narrowed to try and detect more cases. Those with more severe symptoms and those in at risk groups have to be identified because they are most likely to need treatment and hospitalisation.

Why would asymtomatic people present for testing. Thats like looking for a needle in a haystack, when we should be looking for the virus in those that already appear to be infected.
Why waste limited resources on those who are most likely the ones who don't have it.

I am not a medical person and have no real medical knowledge, but my understanding of the word asymptomatic is people who are infected by a disease while showing mild to no symptoms. If this is correct, then to my way of thinking we would need to identify these folks and get them to isolate.



I think asymptomatic people with mild symptoms, even if only one symptom might present themselves for testing as a precautionary measure as I believe the majority are a fazed by the scenes in Italy, Spain etc. I understand that there will also be folks who present who turn out not to be affected at the time of testing and maybe just have a cold or flu or are just hypochondriacs.



As I have said in previous posts I understand the rational of using the limited supply of test kits and resources on those who are most likely affected and in the at risk groups. But I don't see how tightening up the testing criteria to those with multiple symptoms, who most likely are affected finds more cases if those asymptomatic cases with mild symptoms are missed. Yes you find people who definitely are infected, but possibly miss so many more who are also affected, but less severely so.



The possibility is that these folks didn't get tested, so don't think they have the virus so go on about their life, shopping once a week, spending time with the families at home, going to work if required and spreading the virus to others who could be badly affected by the virus.



As I understand it you cannot just rock up to a testing site seeking a test. Testing is provided after a screening call with a medical professional. If these medical professionals think after a screen that maybe someone should be tested, even though they only have mild or a single symptom, I think it is crazy for the HSE to refuse to test that person.

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/JordanFariaLima/status/1244640966386110464

bekker

Martina1991 wrote: »

The criteria was narrowed to try and detect more cases. Those with more severe symptoms and those in at risk groups have to be identified because they are most likely to need treatment and hospitalisation.

Why would asymtomatic people present for testing. Thats like looking for a needle in a haystack, when we should be looking for the virus in those that already appear to be infected.
Why waste limited resources on those who are most likely the ones who don't have it.

Believe your final sentence and emphasis is inaccurate.

All being tested are self-selecting based on symptoms they perceive themselves as having in sufficient degree to warrant a test. {After current triaging.}

Asymptomatics and those with mildish symptoms do not, and did not before, offer themselves for testing, even though they are by definition carriers and transmitting the virus.

Marsden35

Mossad obtains 10 million more coronavirus masks for Israel

The Mossad also brought a few dozen ventilators, tens of thousands of more test kits and around 25,000 N95 masks – and is expected to bring even more medical equipment.

The reason why MOSSAD were brought in?

The Post learned at the time that the kits were obtained from countries with which Israel does not have diplomatic relations. A report by Al Jazeera said the countries were in the Persian Gulf, which could be one reason why the Mossad took the lead.

Israel basically decided to treat the virus like a terrorist and set their internal and external security services on it. Seems to be working so far.