CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) **Read OP**

Funsterdelux

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

They really need to be clearer.

Heard Tony Hoolalan in the radio saying there is CURRENTLY 148 in ICU.

Oh, you heard him on the radio, I thought you were mates

Drumpot

Drumpot wrote: »

It’s part of the reason I stopped coming here and only check in every so often.

I got all the anxiety and planning out of the way in February. Since the parade has been cancelled I’ve been so encouraged by the government and authorities. I don’t know how this is going to play out but I think they’ve done a great job under difficult circumstances.

Rememeber aswell, there are also people with their own agendas against FG. I’m not a party person but think it’s sick to use this crisis as an opportunity to undermine them.

Agree with all of that.

I'd say some is agenda driven, some trolling and some people are just naturally negative.

Rob A. Bank

Pencil Neck wrote: »

We do we need to bite the bullet and implement a herd immunity strategy. It’s the only way out of this nightmare.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-herd-immunity-lockdown-boris-johnson-graham-medley-a9447021.html

You do realize that the idiots in London backed away from the 'Herd Immunity' tactic when they realized that it would cost approx 250,000 British lives.

But I am sure you think that is a price worth paying ? :rolleyes:

How that Brit chief scientist is still in his job defies belief.

mikeoc85

Pencil Neck wrote: »

We do we need to bite the bullet and implement a herd immunity strategy. It’s the only way out of this nightmare.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-herd-immunity-lockdown-boris-johnson-graham-medley-a9447021.html

Country will go that route. These measures are only to get over the initial spike, to try and build up some form of immunity in healthcare workers without crippling it all at once. You will slowly see things go back to reasonable normality in a few of weeks.

We can’t stay in this lock down forever, both from a human perspective and from an economic one.

Anyone believing these measures will be in place until September, need their heads checked

is_that_so

tobefrank321 wrote: »

If you think I'm going to join in to support a government who have proven from day one they don't have a clue what they are doing and are making it up as they go along or rather always after the sh*t hits the fan, you are sadly mistaken.

We've all become "experts" on this but we all have our own way of looking at it. I largely support what is being done, you are free to choose what you want to do.

Boggles

is_that_so wrote: »

We've all become "experts" on this but we all have our own way of looking at it. I largely support what is being done, you are free to choose what you want to do.

To be fair if FG started executing pensioners in fields you spin it into a positive.

zinfandel

Seamai wrote: »

I'm curious as to what we are going to see when they start coming back, yes there may be substantial increases but people need to remember that these increases might not be reflective of the current infection rate. Just to take an example, I have a close family member who contacted his GP on March 18th as he was exhibiting mild symptoms and who's wife is high risk, the test was carried out on March 22nd and here we are on April 4th and still no results. By the time he had the test done he felt he'd was practically over what ever he had, he had been isolating and by the March 24th / 25th completely recovered. Now if his test results came back positive in the next day or two technically it's giving a misleading picture of where we are now and there may be a lot of these. I would be far more interested in seeing the results of tests taken in the last day or two as I would hope at this point after several weeks of stringent measures we would start seeing new infection rates being less than 2 weeks ago.

Exactly, a big % of these people if positive have already come out the other side and are better. does anyone know if there is any follow up by the HSE on people who tested positive? I believe they cant be marked as recovered until they have a negative test, but with a follow up they would at least have a good idea how many are better and have some figures.

WhiteMemento9

mikeoc85 wrote: »

Country will go that route. These measures are only to get over the initial spike, to try and build up some form of immunity in healthcare workers without crippling it all at once. You will slowly see things go back to reasonable normality in a few of weeks.

We can’t stay in this lock down forever, both from a human perspective and from an economic one.

Anyone believing these measures will be in place until September, need their heads checked

You certainly won't see thing go back to reasonable normailty within a few weeks. That is as pie in the sky as people saying we will be in lockdown till September.

stephenjmcd

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

They really need to be clearer.

Heard Tony Hoolalan in the radio saying there is CURRENTLY 148 in ICU.

They've been pretty clear, they were asked to clarify during the week and they did. The CMO even had the released figures from ICU to hand. This was as of midnight Wednesday which is the latest figures they release.
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2f9240-an-analysis-of-the-3655-cases-of-covid-19-in-ireland-as-of-wednesday/#hospital-statistics

Drumpot

tobefrank321 wrote: »

If you think I'm going to join in to support a government who have proven from day one they don't have a clue what they are doing and are making it up as they go along or rather always after the sh*t hits the fan, you are sadly mistaken.

Nobody outside Asia has any experience dealing with this sort of crisis, so I don’t consider “making it up as they go along” a meaningful criticism. Everybody is “making it up” according to the resources and political leanings.

mikeoc85

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

You certainly won't see thing go back to reasonable normailty within a few weeks. That is as pie in the sky as people saying we will be in lockdown till September.

Bars and restaurants will be open in September

Drumpot

mikeoc85 wrote: »

Bars and restaurants will be open in September

Bars should Be the last services to be open. Least important and one of the worst breeding ground for transmission.

Seamai

owlbethere wrote: »

Thanks for this. I think maybe you should have wrote march there in some parts instead of April.

What you write does make sense.

Just on the last bit

"I would hope at this point after several weeks of stringent measures we would start seeing new infection rates being less than 2 weeks ago"


We've been on some form of a lockdown for the past few weeks. Even before Leo made his speech around about the 16th/17th of March introducing more restrictions, many people were taking this very seriously and were slowing down and reducing public spaces and crowds before Leo called for them.

We are now about 2-3 weeks with some form of a lockdown/restrictions and we are still seeing cases rising. This is something that worries me greatly.

Yes you would think the new infection rate would be dropping a bit more at this point but I wonder when the test samples for yesterday's 420+ new cases were taken? Possibly a week or more ago? These people may have been waiting a few days for the test and even taking the average incubation time of 5 days you'd be back to mid March or far earlier if you went for the 14 day incubation period since they actually became infected.
Let's just hope we start to see some more encouraging signs in the coming week but like I said in the first post, the results coming back from Germany may skew things.

tobefrank321

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

You do realize that the idiots in London backed away from the 'Herd Immunity' tactic when they realized that it would cost approx 250,000 British lives.

But I am sure you think that is a price worth paying ? :rolleyes:

How that Brit chief scientist is still in his job defies belief.

Agreed. A controlled herd immunity plan might work. But this would mean knowing who is infected and who could work, travel and work in nursing homes.

MadYaker

owlbethere wrote: »

Thanks for this. I think maybe you should have wrote march there in some parts instead of April.

What you write does make sense.

Just on the last bit

"I would hope at this point after several weeks of stringent measures we would start seeing new infection rates being less than 2 weeks ago"


We've been on some form of a lockdown for the past few weeks. Even before Leo made his speech around about the 16th/17th of March introducing more restrictions, many people were taking this very seriously and were slowing down and reducing public spaces and crowds before Leo called for them.

We are now about 2-3 weeks with some form of a lockdown/restrictions and we are still seeing cases rising. This is something that worries me greatly.

The test results coming out now are from weeks ago. By the time someone gets infected, takes a few days or a week to shows symptoms, rings their gp, has to wait a few days to get tested, takes a few more days to get the results, and they delay reporting the figures by a day or more etc. The numbers will come down but it’s going to take another week or two.

WhiteMemento9

mikeoc85 wrote: »

Bars and restaurants will be open in September

What does that have to do with you claiming we will have normaility within a few weeks? It is currently April the 4th! There is a maths fail here.

Wombatman

Boggles wrote: »

Masks? 1918?

Hmmmmmmmmm.

Why not?



Red Cross volunteers wore face masks during the flu pandemic of 1918.

ChikiChiki

mikeoc85 wrote: »

Country will go that route. These measures are only to get over the initial spike, to try and build up some form of immunity in healthcare workers without crippling it all at once. You will slowly see things go back to reasonable normality in a few of weeks.

We can’t stay in this lock down forever, both from a human perspective and from an economic one.

Anyone believing these measures will be in place until September, need their heads checked

People who make them statements are doing it for their own interests. They don't give a fup about the damage that will be done by lifting restrictions.

Reasonable normailty in a few weeks is a pipe dream. We are all taking a hit but you have to be realistic. There will be disruption until early next year at the minimum when a vaccine hopefully goes to market.

Discodog

Meanwhile in Finland.

A friend of mine is going to a family gathering - their mother has motor neuron disease. They seem totally unaware of the real risks & yet Sweden is just next door.

MerlinSouthDub

MadYaker wrote: »

The test results coming out now are from weeks ago. By the time someone gets infected, takes a few days or a week to shows symptoms, rings their gp, has to wait a few days to get tested, takes a few more days to get the results, and they delay reporting the figures by a day or more etc. The numbers will come down but it’s going to take another week or two.

Exactly! I think the key number to watch is the numbers in ICU. This is the most up to date view of how many people are getting sick. It it starts to stabilise then we are doing ok.

tobefrank321

Drumpot wrote: »

Nobody outside Asia has any experience dealing with this sort of crisis, so I don’t consider “making it up as they go along” a meaningful criticism. Everybody is “making it up” according to the resources and political leanings.

Jesus Christ. We had 24/7 news coverage of this for 2 months before our first case including how to prepare for it, the need for travel restrictions, the need for proper PPE, the danger of asymptomatic spreaders, and so on.

How on earth can anyone say they didn't know what to expect? Unless they were living in a cave or had their head in the sand?

Just Saying

stephenjmcd wrote: »

They've been pretty clear, they were asked to clarify during the week and they did. The CMO even had the released figures from ICU to hand. This was as of midnight Wednesday which is the latest figures they release.
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2f9240-an-analysis-of-the-3655-cases-of-covid-19-in-ireland-as-of-wednesday/#hospital-statistics

In fairness to George Lee he did ask the important questions to Tony regarding the ICU numbers.148 was the number admitted to ICU since the start.He also gave the current numbers in ICU which from memory was 110.

The striking feature of the extra information on the ICU figures was the low average age of those currently in ICU and also only 15 of the total number of deaths occurred in ICU.This is obviously because a large number of the people with underlying conditions were too ill for transfer to ICU as it would not have saved them.

MadYaker

ChikiChiki wrote: »

People who make them statements are doing it for their own interests. They don't give a fup about the damage that will be done by lifting restrictions.

Reasonable normailty in a few weeks is a pipe dream.

You think the government are lying so?

is_that_so

ChikiChiki wrote: »

People who make them statements are doing it for their own interests. They don't give a fup about the damage that will be done by lifting restrictions.

Reasonable normailty in a few weeks is a pipe dream.

The gradual easing of restrictions the most likely. Maybe some minor ones this month, more in May and then a level of normalcy through June and into July.

Cork Boy 53

mikeoc85 wrote: »

Bars and restaurants will be open in September

And if and when the second wave comes in the autumn they will be closed again soon afterwards.

Drumpot

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Jesus Christ. We had 24/7 news coverage of this for 2 months before our first case including how to prepare for it, the need for travel restrictions, the need for proper PPE, the danger of asymptomatic spreaders, and so on.

How on earth can anyone say they didn't know what to expect? Unless they were living in a cave or had their head in the sand?

I didn’t say they shouldn’t of been more prepared, I said nobody took it seriously. How many countries in western democracies are handling this well?

Singling our the Irish government as “‘Making it up” is ignoring the fact that every other country is doing the same. As “making it up” goes, I think our government has done a better job then a lot of other countries have done.

is_that_so

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

And if and when the second wave comes in the autumn they will be closed again soon afterwards.

We'll be a whole lot better placed to address that if it happens.

Maestro85

I hope I am not pulling the pin on the grenade by asking this question but what are peoples thoughts on the chloroquine treatment the FDA approved but the EU didn't.

Just Saying

Seamai wrote: »

Yes you would think the new infection rate would be dropping a bit more at this point but I wonder when the test samples for yesterday's 420+ new cases were taken? Possibly a week or more ago? These people may have been waiting a few days for the test and even taking the average incubation time of 5 days you'd be back to mid March or far earlier if you went for the 14 day incubation period since they actually became infected.
Let's just hope we start to see some more encouraging signs in the coming week but like I said in the first post, the results coming back from Germany may skew things.

If they gave the numbers of test results that comprised each days new cases figure it would clarify the trends greatly.

Drumpot

Just Saying wrote: »

In fairness to George Lee he did ask the important questions to Tony regarding the ICU numbers.148 was the number admitted to ICU since the start.He also gave the current numbers in ICU which from memory was 110.

The striking feature of the extra information on the ICU figures was the low average age of those currently in ICU and also only 15 of the total number of deaths occurred in ICU.This is obviously because a large number of the people with underlying conditions were too ill for transfer to ICU as it would not have saved them.

Part of the problem is that it seems when you are admitted to ICU you could be there for weeks. I know somebody who has only just got out after battling for their lives with Covid. They needed 2 weeks in there.

Sean 18

Yes it was going mental in China in January some people thought it wouldn't come here at all I knew even then it would land here it used be mentioned in the news for 20 seconds the government should have done away more then did they think it was some movie on China or something the way they ignored it at the start of the year they were letting kids go skiing to Italy when it was already causing mayhem there

is_that_so

Maestro85 wrote: »

I hope I am not pulling the pin on the grenade by asking this question but what are peoples thoughts on the chloroquine treatment the FDA approved but the EU didn't.

It is being tested in a big clinical trial.

WhiteMemento9

MadYaker wrote: »

You think the government are lying so?

What have the Government said that makes you think we will have normaility returned wtihin a few weeks? I am very confused by the thread ATM.

Wombatman

Separate data from national statistics office ISTAT showed deaths in the north of Italy doubled in the first three weeks of March compared with the average during the same period between 2015 and 2019, reflecting the onset of coronavirus.

In Bergamo, fatalities more than quadrupled, while they increased between two- and three-fold in several other Lombardy cities. In some small towns at the heart of the outbreak they were up 10-fold this year compared with 2019.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-tally/italy-coronavirus-death-rate-slows-but-studies-suggest-true-tally-higher-idUSKBN21J677

I don't for a second believe that the number of deaths in Northern Italy, was higher in 2019 for the same period, Q1.

Stats and sources please.

ChikiChiki

MadYaker wrote: »

You think the government are lying so?

I think the Government are doing a fantastic job at crisis management. Keeping people as calm as possible.

As long as there is even one case of Covid 19 out there, disruption will be a part of our daily lives. The vaccine has to be in place for a state of reasonable normality to resume. That will not happen until 2021 Q1/Q2 at the earliest.

Unfortunately it is a horrible catastrophe for us, very difficult to accept, but I am taking a realistic approach. We will get through it.

This is my opinion.

plodder

Maestro85 wrote: »

I hope I am not pulling the pin on the grenade by asking this question but what are peoples thoughts on the chloroquine treatment the FDA approved but the EU didn't.

There's a thread on it.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058063232/1

ArchXStanton

Sean 18 wrote: »

Yes it was going mental in China in January some people thought it wouldn't come here at all I knew even then it would land here it used be mentioned in the news for 20 seconds the government should have done away more then did they think it was some movie on China or something the way they ignored it at the start of the year they were letting kids go skiing to Italy when it was already causing mayhem there

I remember seeing it when it broke out first in China and saying to myself that we'd be screwed if it spreads out of there, and I ain't on no politicians wage...

NIMAN

So the majority of people being admitted to ICU are under 65

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0404/1128465-covid19-coronavirus-tracker/

Yet we are told the average age of those dying is 82.

So are old people not even getting to ICU?

Edit: the post below kinda asks the same question.

stephenjmcd

Just Saying wrote: »

In fairness to George Lee he did ask the important questions to Tony regarding the ICU numbers.148 was the number admitted to ICU since the start.He also gave the current numbers in ICU which from memory was 110.

The striking feature of the extra information on the ICU figures was the low average age of those currently in ICU and also only 15 of the total number of deaths occurred in ICU.This is obviously because a large number of the people with underlying conditions were too ill for transfer to ICU as it would not have saved them.

Well there is that, I think given the clusters in nursing homes we can assume somewhere along the line a decision was made as to what the best option would be for someone in a nursing home, they all quite clearly aren't being transferred to ICU given the deaths we've seen. Which as you said could have meant people already with undying health conditions who were just too ill for ICU

Lollipop95

Realistically, when might the restrictions be lifted and people are allowed to go back to work, etc? Assuming the ones already in place start to work and the number of cases and death drop?

Sean 18

Yes exactly and what was our good governments response at that time calling a general election

Cork Boy 53

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Jesus Christ. We had 24/7 news coverage of this for 2 months before our first case including how to prepare for it, the need for travel restrictions, the need for proper PPE, the danger of asymptomatic spreaders, and so on.

How on earth can anyone say they didn't know what to expect? Unless they were living in a cave or had their head in the sand?

A large amount of people thought this was all overhyped, scaremongering etc. even when the government started shutting things down 3 weeks ago. A significant minority still do think that way even now.

Maestro85

plodder wrote: »

There's a thread on it.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058063232/1

Very much appreciated. Thank you.

castletownman

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

And if and when the second wave comes in the autumn they will be closed again soon afterwards.

How can we be so sure there will be a second wave.

We already know it is different to any virus that has hit before, so it's just as likely not to re-emerge.

A post like this scaremongering and makes me think that some people actually want the whole nation to be wrapped in cotton wool for ever more.

BUT WHAT IF IT COMES BACK IN FIVE YEARS TIME!!!

is_that_so

Lollipop95 wrote: »

Realistically, when might the restrictions be lifted and people are allowed to go back to work, etc? Assuming the ones already in place start to work and the number of cases and death drop?

May-June timeframe to start back to work IMO.

mikeoc85

Drumpot wrote: »

Bars should Be the last services to be open. Least important and one of the worst breeding ground for transmission.

Agreed. But life will go on. Eventually the need of the majority will outweigh that of the few.

Bills and Taxes to be paid. ECB won’t print unlimited money for everyone.


It’s awful but this is life, people die, especially old people. There’s no end in sight and the world can’t stop for an unknown amount of time.

I’m one of the people that are in the vulnerable category but let’s face reality here. These measures are in place to stop the early spike...after which we just need to get on with it.

hmmm

Maestro85 wrote: »

I hope I am not pulling the pin on the grenade by asking this question but what are peoples thoughts on the chloroquine treatment the FDA approved but the EU didn't.

We need the data from proper clinical trials. A small trial of severely ill patients finished up recently in France, and showed little benefit.

https://theconversation.com/a-small-trial-finds-that-hydroxychloroquine-is-not-effective-for-treating-coronavirus-135484

There are other trials ongoing, using it on different cohorts - e.g. it might be effective on less severely ill patients.

The FDA approval mostly looks to have been to keep Trump happy. And I wouldn't take my medical advice from Donald.

Maestro85

castletownman wrote: »

How can we be so sure there will be a second wave.

We already know it is different to any virus that has hit before, so it's just as likely not to re-emerge.

A post like this scaremongering and makes me think that some people actually want the whole nation to be wrapped in cotton wool for ever more.

BUT WHAT IF IT COMES BACK IN FIVE YEARS TIME!!!

I think it is more of a "prepare for the worst but hope for the best" with people rather then scaremongering.

cloudatlas

Conor McGregor ranting again. Now is not the time. After the crisis head’s of state can talk to the Chinese government and put pressure on.

Sweden aren’t recording case fatalities correctly, what a surprise.

nacho libre

tobefrank321 wrote: »

If you think I'm going to join in to support a government who have proven from day one they don't have a clue what they are doing and are making it up as they go along or rather always after the sh*t hits the fan, you are sadly mistaken.

.




If the Government ignored expert medical advice that advised stricter measures to be implemented sooner, then i would agree. For example if they were advised to stop travel to Cheltenham, but were reluctant to do so because of the horse race industry and the aviation industry, that is a decision to be criticised no question about it

So the government or their advisers have fecked up in some areas- not shutting down air travel sooner, , but we are in a far better position than Spain, Italy and the UK in terms of mortality rate per head of population due to the fact we implemented restrictions sooner. That fact can't be denied.

We are not South Korea either, no matter how FG party hacks, pr people might like to spin it.

We made mistakes, but like i said we are in a far better position than some other european countries.