CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) **Read OP**

Professor Moriarty

Deleted User wrote: »

I think you dont show sythoms until.day 7 to 10

So.in theory 7 days should be ok

The HSE advises up to 14 days before symptoms appear.

lawred2

Omackeral wrote: »

Straight off the plane and hug someone. All on national TV. Brilliant!

The whole thing was a joke...

Turtwig

Heighway61 wrote: »

This lack of testing really has become a serious problem.

My wife is a health care worker and was called by her manager to say that one of her clients has tested positive. He told her there was no need for her to get tested as she isn't showing symptoms. A number of home help workers also had contact with this client. They all are to continue working as normal. Work, I might add, she has been carrying out without PPE, including hand sanitiser. She finished the 100ml bottle they gave her last week.

So, my wife who:

has had contact with a confirmed case
is a health care worker
has a spouse (me) at home with cancer

is not eligible for testing?

She called the number for HSE staff who said the same, no symptoms - no test. They gave her a local staff number. They said the same but to contact her GP. Eh, right.

She still has to self isolate. Including from you. Test isn't required for that.

kenmc

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

One positive known case. In reality there are far more than that.

I've heard of one in wicklow, under 50, on a ventilator, came back from Cheltenham. Doubt he's the only one.

darjeeling

BanditLuke wrote: »

Seems unlikely alright but it keeps coming up in various articles.

It looks impossible when you look at the family tree of the genome sequences, and the dates at which they were all sampled.

The earliest sequences appear in Wuhan, and all the sequences from around the world radiate out from that origin in all directions.

The earliest sequences from Europe from mid-late Jan are all linked to Wuhan via known travel, and the later European ones all look to be descended from those early sequences because they feature the same mutations as the early ones, plus some extra.

The same pattern is seen in the USA.

'But my auntie had an awful dose at Christmas ...'

Westernyelp

lawred2 wrote: »

Pile of backpacking gobshoites swanning back into Dublin airport

What's the problem here? I imagine the vast majority were gone before this kicked off.

Cork Boy 53

Alun wrote: »

They're still going on.

They are but like elsewhere on a much reduced scale with donors asked to book ahead and travel to clinics individually.

Talisman

bekker wrote: »

Are COVID-19 patients in same ICU environment as non-COVID-19 patients ?

Or in seperete ICU environment though in same hospital?

Less than 50% of the ICU beds in public hospitals have isolation facilities.

podgeandrodge

Wolf359f wrote: »

Officials has said it can be transmitted via breath, but you would have to be literally face to face. It's a choir, I assume they were singing off the top of their lungs, which I imagine would have aerosoled it. They were also in contact for over 2 hours

Sth Korea doc widely quoted in the youtube video on here said same thing - if you are singing or shouting for a period in the same group it is dramatically different in terms of the distance the droplets spread.

Quin_Dub

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

He always looks wrecked. I used to work in the same building as him a few years ago, I remember the first time I saw him I thought, God he looks wrecked.

He suffers from Crohn's disease which isn't great at the best of times , can only imagine how he's feeling now with all the other stress etc. on top.

Tomrota

Heighway61 wrote: »

This lack of testing really has become a serious problem.

My wife is a health care worker and was called by her manager to say that one of her clients has tested positive. He told her there was no need for her to get tested as she isn't showing symptoms. A number of home help workers also had contact with this client. They all are to continue working as normal. Work, I might add, she has been carrying out without PPE, including hand sanitiser. She finished the 100ml bottle they gave her last week.

So, my wife who:

has had contact with a confirmed case
is a health care worker
has a spouse (me) at home with cancer

is not eligible for testing?

She called the number for HSE staff who said the same, no symptoms - no test. They gave her a local staff number. They said the same but to contact her GP. Eh, right.

I’m very sorry to hear that.

I’ve been saying this from the start. At the start, my friend came back from Italy and has asthma and wasn’t able to get a test. I wonder how people even get tests in any circumstance cause it seems nobody can reach the criteria unless they barge into an A&E unable to breathe.

martingriff

Westernyelp wrote: »

What's the problem here? I imagine the vast majority were gone before this kicked off.

and bar 1 who stupidly ran straight to someone, hope the mother will also be put in isolation the rest stayed away from people (from what I saw).

cnocbui

Wolf359f wrote: »

Officials has said it can be transmitted via breath, but you would have to be literally face to face. It's a choir, I assume they were singing off the top of their lungs, which I imagine would have aerosoled it. They were also in contact for over 2 hours

What is it you don't get? Possibly just one asymptomatic person infected 45 others through aerosol transmission over a distance of several metres.

Do you think that breathing vs singing is a magic binary switch: no virus/virus?

If you believe that, you should go work for the WHO.

We should now assume that an asymptomatic infected person can transmit the virus through aerosols just by exhaling. Of course singing increased the rate and extent of virus output and spread, that is why so many people were infected and the spread was so dramatic we have been alerted to it, but it also means that an infected person just breathing normally in a room with 59 others may well infect one or more people near them, particularly if they are talking to them.

This really helps to explain the infectiousness and spread, even weeks after people worldwide were advised to wash their hands frequently and that it was the best preventative measure, when actually a mask probably would have been better.

tobefrank321

kenmc wrote: »

I've heard of one in wicklow, under 50, on a ventilator, came back from Cheltenham. Doubt he's the only one.

There's been a few in the UK. Eg Lee Mack. The HSE don't give specifics on where someone got it, they just say the UK.

walshb

I think folks got taken in and hooked on this 30 percent figure from Leo...worst case scenario...

15 precent compared to 30 percent is encouraging, but on its own, 15 percent is far from encouraging...and 15 percent when the vast majority of people are being prudent, well? I think discouraging is the more apt word.

Spanish Eyes

I hope we flatten the curve PDQ, and we seem to be heading that way hopefully.

But a part of my brain says whoa. False hope can be dangerous, because everyone will just go out again and do their thing if they think we are beating the stats elsewhere. Fine. But it's early days yet.

Full admiration for all involved.

No one can in conscience fault them really unless they themselves are idiots. Well there will always be some I suppose.

STB.

GM228 wrote: »

How is it incorrect? It's correct based on the data published for each date.

COVID cases

20th March 17 cases in ICU
24th March 47 cases in ICU
25th March 59 cases in ICU
26th March 67 cases in ICU
27th March 77 cases in ICU
28th March 84 cases in ICU
29th March 88 cases in ICU
30th March 84 cases in ICU

The ICU figures go up because they are critical cases requiring ICU beds.

The only way you will see ICU figures go down is if people recover or die.

elperello

Omackeral wrote: »

Straight off the plane and hug someone. All on national TV. Brilliant!

Not too smart.

lawred2 wrote: »

Pile of backpacking gobshoites swanning back into Dublin airport

Why should they all be criticised?

saabsaab

Ace2007 wrote: »

But then why not go and bet against the market and make yourself a fortune from it?

It's like those saying they knew the crash was coming in 2008/2009 - it's easy to say a recession is coming, but to know when it's coming and how bad it's going to get is different.

All you posters are the same and I put it to someone two days ago - to name the 5 things you would do going forward and they refused to do it - because it they name them, and they are wrong - people will use it against them.

So I say to you Frank - 5 distinct things that should happen now going forward to help improve the situation.

Five suggestions

1. Set up a blood bank from those you have recovered to use as last ditch treatments and research here.
2. Spray disinfectant on public transport and entrances to supermarkets airports and otherheavy footfall areas.
3. Stockpile antivirals and other promising treatment medicines
4. Enhanced legal protection for health workers during the crisis especially when hard decision may be needed as to who gets treatment first.
5. Use of CCTV and drones to police high density areas

MadYaker

Maestro85 wrote: »

Question for you all. What if it comes back harder and more resistant to treatment again (be it in winter or next year or even 3 years from now)? How are we going to change as a nation or EU to deal with these events?

We most likely won’t change I think. For the next 5 years or so governments will talk about various changes but not much will actually happen outside of healthcare I suspect. Some people think this will change our way of life forever but as things currently stand that’s not a solid prediction.

GooglePlus

cnocbui wrote: »

What is it you don't get? Possibly just one asymptomatic person infected 45 others through aerosol transmission over a distance of several metres.

Do you think that breathing vs singing is a magic binary switch: no virus/virus?

If you believe that, you should go work for the WHO.

We should now assume that an asymptomatic infected person can transmit the virus through aerosols just by exhaling. Of course singing increased the rate and extent of virus output and spread, that is why so many people were infected and the spread was so dramatic we have been alerted to it, but it also means that an infected person just breathing normally in a room with 59 others may well infect one or more people near them, particularly if they are talking to them.

This really helps to explain the infectiousness and spread, even weeks after people worldwide were advised to wash their hands frequently and that it was the best preventative measure, when actually a mask probably would have been better.

Of course singing will expel more aerosol than talking would, you're inhaling/exhaling more intensely and more often.

Achasanai

Quin_Dub wrote: »

He suffers from Crohn's disease which isn't great at the best of times , can only imagine how he's feeling now with all the other stress etc. on top.

Is that not one of the 'underlying conditions' that requires cocooning?

Wolf359f

cnocbui wrote: »

What is it you don't get? Possibly just one asymptomatic person infected 45 others through aerosol transmission over a distance of several metres.

Do you think that breathing vs singing is a magic binary switch: no virus/virus?

If you believe that, you should go work for the WHO.

We should now assume that an asymptomatic infected person can transmit the virus through aerosols just by exhaling. Of course singing increased the rate and extent of virus output and spread, that is why so many people were infected and the spread was so dramatic we have been alerted to it, but it also means that an infected person just breathing normally in a room with 59 others may well infect one or more people near them, particularly if they are talking to them.

This really helps to explain the infectiousness and spread, even weeks after people worldwide were advised to wash their hands frequently and that it was the best preventative measure, when actually a mask probably would have been better.

Ah here there's a massive difference between breathing out and singing. If it was spread just by breath and lingered in the air (outside a controlled test) airplanes would have been breeding grounds, which there's no evidence that it was.

STB.

STB. wrote: »

COVID cases

20th March 17 cases in ICU
24th March 47 cases in ICU
25th March 59 cases in ICU
26th March 67 cases in ICU
27th March 77 cases in ICU
28th March 84 cases in ICU
29th March 88 cases in ICU
30th March 84 cases in ICU

The ICU figures go up because they are critical.

The only way you will see ICU figures go down is if people recover or die.

I was under impression figures quoted are numbers admitted to ICU??

In that these numbers,could in theory include deceased

timmy_mallet

cnocbui wrote: »

What is it you don't get? Possibly just one asymptomatic person infected 45 others through aerosol transmission over a distance of several metres.

Do you think that breathing vs singing is a magic binary switch: no virus/virus?

If you believe that, you should go work for the WHO.

We should now assume that an asymptomatic infected person can transmit the virus through aerosols just by exhaling. Of course singing increased the rate and extent of virus output and spread, that is why so many people were infected and the spread was so dramatic we have been alerted to it, but it also means that an infected person just breathing normally in a room with 59 others may well infect one or more people near them, particularly if they are talking to them.

This really helps to explain the infectiousness and spread, even weeks after people worldwide were advised to wash their hands frequently and that it was the best preventative measure, when actually a mask probably would have been better.

I love that this starts with 'What is it that you don't get? Possibly...'. POSSIBLY!!

Achasanai

GooglePlus wrote: »

Of course singing will expel more aerosol than talking would, you're inhaling/exhaling more intensely and more often.

It's worrying if infected people breathing in confined spaces (like supermarkets) can leave the virus on various surfaces for others to be infected, I suppose.

JPCN1

Duke of Url wrote: »

Lol didn’t we pay for it already? You would think the WHO could certify it in Beijing.

Not sure the WHO are the folk we should be trusting the ground in China.

Better to check ourselves imo.

sterz

walshb wrote: »

15 precent compared to 30 percent is encouraging



but on its own, 15 percent is far from encouraging...and 15 percent when the vast majority of people are being prudent, well? I think discouraging is the more apt word.

.

BrianD3

STB. wrote: »

Yes I watched it. What did you not understand ?

84. Yes that may have increased Holohan says.

Do you think they just go in for 24 hours and are released back somewhere else. There are currently 84 in ICU BEDS. There were 88 at the weekend.

The totals for ICU are the numbers in ICU at anyone time as a result of Covid19.

Watch the video again. Question that was put by the journalist was the total figure that have gone into ICU, no mention of those that are currently in ICU. Holohan responds with the total as notified on Saturday night.

We have this thing in the public service where people either answer exactly what they are asked and no more or else fudge their answer. On this occasion Holohan appears to have done the former. And we still don't know how many are currently in ICU.

The part about there being further admissions since Saturday is just filler and stating the obvious.

These are the serious cases, Brian.

Thanks for that, I thought ICU cases weren't serious :rolleyes:

Wolf359f

Achasanai wrote: »

Is that not one of the 'underlying conditions' that requires cocooning?

Depends if he's on immune suppressents or if he's in remission.
But certainly the stress could bring on a flair up.
The immune suppressants would or can lead to more servere symptoms of covid.

BanditLuke

Omackeral wrote: »

Straight off the plane and hug someone. All on national TV. Brilliant!

Absolute fcuking idiots but a good insight into what exactly we are up against.

Strazdas

walshb wrote: »

I think folks got taken in and hooked on this 30 percent figure from Leo...worst case scenario...

15 precent compared to 30 percent is encouraging, but on its own, 15 percent is far from encouraging...and 15 percent when the vast majority of people are being prudent, well? I think discouraging is the more apt word.

They did say at the briefing tonight that 15% is still way too high. The aim would be to get it down to say 7-8%, and even lower than that in two to three weeks.

Mwengwe

saneman wrote: »

Yes, that's the reason for 2-metre social distancing.

https://youtu.be/E3URhJx0NSw?t=75

Why is this not emphasised more? i've googled it a few times and all I find is 'coughing or sneezing spreads it, not airborne'. I mean I've really searched specifically for 'can you spread it just by breathing?'. This information isn't out there. Unless you watch Joe Rogan, it seems...

An Ciarraioch

Strazdas wrote: »

They did say at the briefing tonight that 15% is still way too high. The aim would be to get it down to say 7-8%, and even lower than that in two to three weeks.

I thought it was 11% tonight?

STB.

Deleted User wrote: »

I was under impression figures quoted are numbers admitted to ICU??

In that these numbers,could in theory include deceased

It's cumulative numbers. Numbers that are in ICU at that time, including people still critical. You could be in ICU for weeks.

Yes. There are only two outcomes from ICU.

timmy_mallet

STB. wrote: »

It's cumulative numbers. Numbers that are in ICU at that time, including people still critical. You could be in ICU for weeks.

Yes. There are only two outcomes from ICU.

Surely in most cases, there are two outcomes from visiting hospital? Or in fact, visiting anything? You come out, or you don't?

STB.

BrianD3 wrote: »

Watch the video again. Question that was put by the journalist was the total figure that have gone into ICU, no mention of those that are currently in ICU. Holohan responds with the total as notified on Saturday night.

We have this thing in the public service where people either answer exactly what they are asked and no more or else fudge their answer. On this occasion Holohan appears to have done the former. And we still don't know how many are currently in ICU.

The part about there being further admissions since Saturday is just filler and stating the obvious.

Thanks for that, I thought ICU cases weren't serious :rolleyes:

Brian they are the same thing, however badly worded you think it is, "admitted" might have thrown you as you might assume they are new.

The figure Holohan gave is the numbers in ICU at the time the question was asked, he even says it could have went up.

I posted the steady increase in ICU numbers a few posts before yours. Do you not understand their relevance. Do you think people are being admitted to ICU to get their teeth cleaned, off you go thanks a lot.

Its for critical patients. Many are in there in a bad way with two possible outcomes.

Its the only true measurement right now. We have 500 ICU beds in the whole country spread everywhere. If the worst cases exceed the number of ICU beds, difficult decisions will have to be made about who gets ventilators and who does not.

timmy_mallet

Achasanai wrote: »

It's worrying if infected people breathing in confined spaces (like supermarkets) can leave the virus on various surfaces for others to be infected, I suppose.

The absurdity of this whole thing laid bare is once inside a supermarket, it's a free-for-all. Did you just touch my packet of easy singles, oh sorry! Oh don't worry the bloke that's been working here all morning picked up the box, and the person after him did the same, after wiping their nose and not realising and then we came in and haha! Covid!

ZX7R

Wolf359f wrote: »

Ah here there's a massive difference between breathing out and singing. If it was spread just by breath and lingered in the air (outside a controlled test) airplanes would have been breeding grounds, which there's no evidence that it was.

They were all probably infected before they arrived to sing

Logan Roy

walshb wrote: »

I think folks got taken in and hooked on this 30 percent figure from Leo...worst case scenario...

15 precent compared to 30 percent is encouraging, but on its own, 15 percent is far from encouraging...and 15 percent when the vast majority of people are being prudent, well? I think discouraging is the more apt word.

There's a delay of what? 5ish days between testing and results. We've only really been doing the social distancing full fat since Friday. It's going to take some time for the numbers to reduce.

randy hickey

Maestro85 wrote: »

Question for you all. What if it comes back harder and more resistant to treatment again (be it in winter or next year or even 3 years from now)? How are we going to change as a nation or EU to deal with these events?

Tbh, this topic is worthy of a thread in it's own right - it's too important to get lost in the frenetic posting that goes on in here.

To give my quick and short answer, I think when this dies down we will immediately revert to type, and our lives will be consumed by the economic ramifications of this.
One would hope that it would lead to changes such as our society embracing a working from home culture, improved broadband infrastructure to facilitate this, and a rethink at government level on the maintenance of an adequate (6 months supply?) of items that are needed in various crisis scenarios.

Another obvious change would be to beef up the numbers and skill level of the likes of Civil Defence/Order of Malta, so that you have a ready supply of essential workers that can slot into key frontline roles when the manure hits the fan in various crisis scenarios.This would be a relatively low-cost option, but could have a very big impact when needed.

caveat emptor

https://twitter.com/paddycosgrave/status/1244730196038647809?s=20

Westernyelp

timmy_mallet wrote: »

The absurdity of this whole thing laid bare is once inside a supermarket, it's a free-for-all. Did you just touch my packet of easy singles, oh sorry! Oh don't worry the bloke that's been working here all morning picked up the box, and the person after him did the same, after wiping their nose and not realising and then we came in and haha! Covid!

wipe down your shopping after. simple

STB.

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Surely in most cases, there are two outcomes from visiting hospital? Or in fact, visiting anything? You come out, or you don't?

This isn't most cases

"In most cases" you don't have a pandemic attempting to overwhelm your capacity to treat people.

The level of care therefore that can be afforded to everyone i that case scenario greatly diminishes your outcome.

Stheno

caveat emptor wrote: »

https://twitter.com/paddycosgrave/status/1244730196038647809?s=20

Wtf is he at?

Strumms

Think too we need to not think too much of the future and focus on our day to day responsibilities... the expertises and informed views of the medical people are really the only worthwhile views worth consuming when it comes to any future impact of a return of the virus.


For now let’s remain vigilant, keep disciplined, keep distancing and keep the faith. Normality will resume fairly sooon..

timmy_mallet

Westernyelp wrote: »

wipe down your shopping after. simple

Pick up yer easy singles, rub your ruddy Irish face with your thick fingers before you get the chance to wipe it clean. CORONA!

GM228

STB. wrote: »

COVID cases

20th March 17 cases in ICU
24th March 47 cases in ICU
25th March 59 cases in ICU
26th March 67 cases in ICU
27th March 77 cases in ICU
28th March 84 cases in ICU
29th March 88 cases in ICU
30th March 84 cases in ICU

The ICU figures go up because they are critical cases requiring ICU beds.

The only way you will see ICU figures go down is if people recover or die.

Ok, so I had a typo for two days out of 31 (now corrected), the last officially reported and published numbers by the DoH are for up to the 28th and by the HPSC for up to the 29th which shows 79 ICU admissions as of the 29th @ 15.00, up from 77 on the 27th.

TheValeyard

caveat emptor wrote: »

https://twitter.com/paddycosgrave/status/1244730196038647809?s=20

Da fcuk. Any truth or proof for him to back up a claim like that????

timmy_mallet

STB. wrote: »

This isn't most cases

"In most cases" you don't have a pandemic attempting to overwhelm your capacity to treat people.

The level of care therefore that can be afforded to everyone i that case scenario greatly diminishes your outcome.

You either come out of ICU, or you don't.
You either come out of McDonalds, or you don't.
You either come home from Hillsborough, or you don't.

The pandemic is irrelevant to the quantity of potential outcomes of doing or visiting anything.