CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) **Read OP**

wadacrack

https://twitter.com/onlyyoontv/status/1244910504604102656

bb12

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Yeah our population is the same as Italys

This thread would melt your brain.

it's half per capita

Fakediamond

AmberGold wrote: »

Assuming it's factually correct this is one of the most informative pieces I've seen written anywhere since this ordeal began.

And do you know how much an ICU Nurse gets paid for all of that expertise, never mind facing the fear of catching COVID-19? And not seeing their families for weeks/months for some of them now, if there is anyone immuno-compromised in their family.

Most of them are on €40,000 GROSS per year, despite having invested serious money in advanced training and Masters Degrees in some cases.

So never mind a round of applause for health care workers, show them the respect of paying them properly! That at least would give them the esteem they so surely deserve.

tobefrank321

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Yeah our population is the same as Italys

This thread would melt your brain.

Ah now, you know well what he means, per capita.

The stats are here.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00134-012-2627-8

Germany has 4.5 times our ICU beds, Italy almost twice ours.

Yes we will bring private capacity on board, but so also did Italy in this crisis. At best it buys you a couple extra weeks.

You can argue with posters, but you cannot argue with facts, unless of course you have facts of your own?

otnomart

gozunda wrote: »

All lovely pictures for sure ..

It remains shuting down flights from known areas of infection would have limited transmission of the significant number of clusters here brought back from those travelling to and from Northern Italy. And yes people could still have been repatriated and quarantined.

As to which particular clade each strain of the virus belongs to. No doubt there were people from London / UK etc holidaying in those same hotspots in Northern Italy.

Restrictions on flights would certainly have helped here ...

You see: when people started heading out on skiing trips, it was not yet known that the German outbreak had not been fully contained yet.
It was not yet known either that someone had died by Covid in Valencia as early on 13 February, and that the virus was already circulating in Europe.
I mentioned earlier that Italy stopped all flights to/from China on 31 January, and immediately started checking temperatures at Arrivals from all other International flights, to catch anyone with a fever coming indirectly via London, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Paris. Still, the virus arrived to Italy (via Germany).
With hindsight, Ireland should have also started checking temperatures at Arrivals from all other International flights. US included (COVID19 has been circulating in the US since 15 January , but undetected due to lack of testing https://bedford.io/blog/ncov-cryptic-transmission/ )

But, even checking temperatures, that would not have prevented someone flying to Ireland from the US, UK, Netherlands, Germany with no fever but still carrying the virus.
That happened anyway, as Nextstrain clearly shows that the first cases in Ireland got the virus from contacts with the UK and the Netherlands (not Italy).

Gods Gift

bb12 wrote: »

it's half per capita

Source

CIARAN_BOYLE

caveat emptor wrote: »

This refers to new cases. From the data I've looked at it takes ~20 days to die. Deaths won't slow for a while unfortunately but you should see new cases falling.

The last column is tests. Of course they may have seen a reduction in being able to process tests. I don't have that information.

http://www.salute.gov.it/imgs/C_17_notizie_4362_0_file.pdf

OK they've done 477k tests on 30/03/2020. Given that all other figures are cumulative ill assume they were cumulative too.

The last place I can find a dailly total for Italy is 454k on 29/03/2020. That's 23k a day (note for those interested we do 5k a day as of Sundays press briefing. A twelfth of the population and a 5th of the tests).

A few days ago they tested 35k so testing seems to have gone down. That said testing in general is up from a week or two ago so maybe they have more of an idea of where they are.

https://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19/blob/master/dati-andamento-nazionale/dpc-covid19-ita-andamento-nazionale.csv

TheAsYLuMkeY

froog wrote: »

ireland tends to do what we're told so the more heavy handed approach is not really needed. not the same on the continent. having said that, there are fines in place now and gardai checkpoints so we're not far off it.

I would tend to agree with you on this one, but i drove through a checkpoint this morning on my way to work and they waved me through without checking where i was going or even tax, Ins and NCT

forumdedum

froog wrote: »

ireland tends to do what we're told so the more heavy handed approach is not really needed. not the same on the continent. having said that, there are fines in place now and gardai checkpoints so we're not far off it.

I didn't hear anything about fines. Do you have a source i could read more on this?

iwillyeah1234

Fakediamond wrote: »

And do you know how much an ICU Nurse gets paid for all of that expertise, never mind facing the fear of catching COVID-19? And not seeing their families for weeks/months for some of them now, if there is anyone immuno-compromised in their family.

Most of them are on €40,000 GROSS per year, despite having invested serious money in advanced training and Masters Degrees in some cases.

So never mind a round of applause for health care workers, show them the respect of paying them properly! That at least would give them the esteem they so surely deserve.

Good god - that’s absolute pittance. No wonder we lose so many qualified medical staff to America.

Rob A. Bank

otnomart wrote: »

But, even checking temperatures, that would not have prevented someone flying to Ireland from the US, UK, Netherlands, Germany with no fever but still carrying the virus.
That happened anyway, as Nextstrain clearly shows that the first cases in Ireland got the virus from contacts with the UK and the Netherlands (not Italy).

Checking temperature would detect the 'open' cases, those who are already shedding virus all over the place. Stopping them at the airport would have saved a lot of heartache and clusters here later.

If you looked closer at Nextstrain you would find that the Netherlands strain of virus infected Northern Italy, and from there back to Ireland.

TheDoctor

Virginia Governor issues stay at home order until 10 June. Latest date I have heard issued so far.

https://www.joe.ie/news/virginia-governor-issues-stay-at-home-order-until-10-june-695656

Nonoperational

To be fair the fact that we generally do what we are told probably relates to the fact that overall most of us are fairly decent people who want to just get on with their business. It's not necessarily a bad thing. I see there are mutterings of our civil liberties etc being taken from us but its for good reason. We can still be sensible and pop out for a walk. At the end of the day we are being asked to try and kill the resevior of virus for 2 weeks, not pick cotton in our bare feet either.

Tordelback

Nermal wrote: »

At €865M per week? https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113004587

Two new Luas lines a week? Two port tunnels?
Another T2 or three new runways in Dublin airport a week?

It's not worth it, not in the slightest.

What all this economic output *for*, do you think? What're the Luas and Port Tunnel for?

It's not *people*, by any chance?

caveat emptor

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

OK they've done 477k tests on 30/03/2020. Given that all other figures are cumulative ill assume they were cumulative too.

The last place I can find a dailly total for Italy is 454k on 29/03/2020. That's 23k a day (note for those interested we do 5k a day as of Sundays press briefing. A twelfth of the population and a 5th of the tests).

A few days ago they tested 35k so testing seems to have gone down. That said testing in general is up from a week or two ago so maybe they have more of an idea of where they are.

https://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19/blob/master/dati-andamento-nazionale/dpc-covid19-ita-andamento-nazionale.csv

Fair enough. The distribution of the spread is not homogeneous. Lombardy much more advanced etc. There wasn't a lockdown in place before it spread etc so that is not the same as Sardinia or Lazio where there was a lockdown in place etc.

Comparing to Total population not valid. Although probably the same in Ireland. I've not seen the case rate by county weighted for population. Would be interesting to see the extent of the spread.

Jim_Hodge

A 12-year-old girl confirmed to have Covid-19 has died in Belgium, health officials said.
The young age of the fatality "is a very rare occurrence," said a government spokesman, Dr Emmanuel Andre, adding that her death "shook us".
It was the first death of a child in the coronavirus crisis gripping Belgium, which has now recorded a total 705 deaths, according to the latest official toll.

No mention of underlying health issues.

otnomart

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Lombardy (the worst hit Italian region) abandoned community testing a few weeks back. They may have gone back to testing since I dont know.

I'm just suspicious that if testing was abandoned in one Italian region maybe it was abandoned in others.

So if I see numbers go down I ask what's going on rather than yay numbers are down.

Testing is still going quite strong in Italy.
As per yesterday, the total number was 477 000 tests (of which, 111 000 in Lombardy alone)
Yesterday, nearly 20 000 tests in Italy identified 4 000 positive cases.

https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/coronavirus/en/#box_6

caveat emptor

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Checking temperature would detect the 'open' cases, those who are already shedding virus all over the place. Stopping them at the airport would have saved a lot of heartache and clusters here later.

If you looked closer at Nextstrain you would find that the Netherlands strain of virus infected Northern Italy, and from there back to Ireland.

I've heard first hand from someone who was infected and not in great shape. They waited over week for test then had it cancelled then got one 3 days later. They still had symptoms at this point. They were told to make their way to a testing centre. They had no private transport and had to use public transport.

They were told that only high risk people get tested at home. Anyway I understand allocation of resources etc but that could lead to additional community spread.

Steve F

Nonoperational wrote: »

To be fair the fact that we generally do what we are told probably relates to the fact that overall most of us are fairly decent people who want to just get on with their business. It's not necessarily a bad thing. I see there are mutterings of our civil liberties etc being taken from us but its for good reason. We can still be sensible and pop out for a walk. At the end of the day we are being asked to try and kill the resevior of virus for 2 weeks, not pick cotton in our bare feet either.

If this crisis has proved one thing it's how many selfish,self absorbed thickos there are in this world.Sorry,I had to say it...got it off my chest now

...and they will still be selfish self absorbed thickos when we return to "normality"

Just Saying

otnomart wrote: »

Testing is still going quite strong in Italy.
As per yesterday, the total number was 477 000 tests (of which, 111 000 in Lombardy alone)
Yesterday, nearly 20 000 tests in Italy identified 4 000 positive cases.

https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/coronavirus/en/#box_6

That's a 20% rate of positives which would seem to indicate cases are only tested there on a higher set of specifications than the "any 2" standard here.

Palmach

is_that_so wrote: »

I think that power will be held off unless it's absolutely necessary. Their presence alone seems to be enough for now.

Call me old fashioned but unless Guards have the legal powers to tell you to do something they shouldn't be doing it. We're seeing huge over reach in the UK and it has created animosity.

wakka12

Over 500 new cases in Russia and 540 in the Phillipines

Belgium reports almost 200 new deaths

caveat emptor

caveat emptor wrote: »

I've heard first hand from someone who was infected and not in great shape. They waited over week for test then had it cancelled then got one 3 days later. They still had symptoms at this point. They were told to make their way to a testing centre. They had no private transport and had to use public transport.

They were told that only high risk people get tested at home. Anyway I understand allocation of resources etc but that could lead to additional community spread.

Sure you have Paddy. Sure you have.

Hector Savage

That video has been removed of the Spanish doctor crying ... what's going on ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWFr6khY2U4

difficult to find on youtube aswell ...

Palmach

Fakediamond wrote: »

And do you know how much an ICU Nurse gets paid for all of that expertise, never mind facing the fear of catching COVID-19? And not seeing their families for weeks/months for some of them now, if there is anyone immuno-compromised in their family.

Most of them are on €40,000 GROSS per year, despite having invested serious money in advanced training and Masters Degrees in some cases.

So never mind a round of applause for health care workers, show them the respect of paying them properly! That at least would give them the esteem they so surely deserve.

Not true. They are paid far more.

A lot of rags today reporting stories whilst trying to tie them into the covid-19 category. Same for a well know one in the UK, when it's obvious a young girl died of a heart attack or sudden adult death syndrome (or at least it has more of the hallmarks than it's more famous killer de jour, COVID-19).

absolute fear mongers... if we're not uninfomed we're misinformed. not all media before some on line journos here start telling me to grab my foil hat...

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/newsireland/irish-family-hit-with-double-tragedy-as-husband-and-wife-tragically-die-on-same-day/ar-BB11VO7c?ocid=spartandhp

BloodBath

Mallory Dead Self-confidence wrote: »

Sure you have Paddy. Sure you have.

First hand aka twitter.

weldoninhio

mikeoc85 wrote: »

I know the government have let us have one of the lowest ICU numbers in Europe...half that of Italy's.

Yeah, but as our fearless leader Leo previously said while Minister of Health, if we'd more beds it would slow down our nurses. :rolleyes::rolleyes:


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2016/more-hospital-beds-can-slow-down-staff-claims-minister-leo-varadkar-34430062.html

iwillyeah1234

iwillyeah1234 wrote: »

Was just on the phone to a mate of mine who is living in Spain. The police response out there is unbelievably more restrictive than anything we’ve experienced so far in both Ireland and Britain.

On the beach on your own? Immediate fine.

Didn’t get back from supermarket within an hour? Immediate fine.

Checkpoints setup on roads - they will check your receipt time stamp. Don’t have the receipt? Immediate fine.

Not allowed into supermarkets without face mask and gloves.

The approach of the Italian and Spanish police is very different to the UK and Ireland. We have a principle of ‘policing by consent’ as opposed to the militaristic policing approach. It will not be the intent of the Irish government to damage that principle. Indeed you have seen the UK today try to rein in some of the police behaviour seen in the last few days so as to not damage this principle long term. We are not Spain, and we will not see that kind of policing

Wibbs

Palmach wrote: »

Call me old fashioned but unless Guards have the legal powers to tell you to do something they shouldn't be doing it. We're seeing huge over reach in the UK and it has created animosity.

Our Guards are very different to the British police in philosophy and approach. I'm not surprised to see the over reach happening there.

Padraig Mor

Fakediamond wrote: »

And do you know how much an ICU Nurse gets paid for all of that expertise, never mind facing the fear of catching COVID-19? And not seeing their families for weeks/months for some of them now, if there is anyone immuno-compromised in their family.

Most of them are on €40,000 GROSS per year, despite having invested serious money in advanced training and Masters Degrees in some cases.

So never mind a round of applause for health care workers, show them the respect of paying them properly! That at least would give them the esteem they so surely deserve.

Untrue. Ignore the union propaganda. Average nurse pay in Ireland is mid €50ks per year. Many ICU nurses will be on more than even that. At least, that's what the HSE say, and they pay the bill so should know. Also, the HSE pays for their 'advanced training' - they don't pay a penny themselves normally, and indeed, get fully paid time off work to attend the courses.

Timberrrrrrrr

Wibbs wrote: »

Our Guards are very different to the British police in philosophy and approach. I'm not surprised to see the over reach happening there.

Not seeing any so called over reach here in the UK myself. Could palmach maybe elaborate on what they have witnessed?

iwillyeah1234

iwillyeah1234 wrote: »

Good god - that’s absolute pittance. No wonder we lose so many qualified medical staff to America.

Wasn't there a whole thread on here last year complaining about what they are paid.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Our Guards are very different to the British police in philosophy and approach. I'm not surprised to see the over reach happening there.

If you mean the British police actually do something then yes, I would agree.

Achasanai

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Yeah our population is the same as Italys

This thread would melt your brain.

How do we compare with the rest of Europe in terms of ICU per head of population?

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Not seeing any so called over reach here in the UK myself. Could palmach maybe elaborate on what they have witnessed?

It’s all over the british papers this morning (the headline in the guardian). Derbyshire police have been particularly guilty in overreaching their power

Talisman

Martina1991 wrote: »

Dr Ray Walley,a member of the National Covid-19 GPs Advisory Committee, said that we are testing roughly 2,000 people a day - in comparison, an average of 600 people a week are tested during the height of flu season.

He said this will increase to "ten times that" over the next four weeks and that "things are gearing up" very quickly.
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0324/1124971-coronavirus-covid19-ireland/

Additionally it was reported by RTE yesterday that there are ~33,000 tests carried out to date. There was ~18,000 carried out up until 23rd March. That's over 2k a day carried out during the last week.

From what I read the 33,000 is with respect to samples taken. People are equating that with a laboratory test which it is not.

"Sample, sample, sample" doesn't have the same ring to it as the WHO recommendation to "Test, test, test."

The NVRL is operating 24 hours a day and processing ~900 samples a day. Other labs around the country don't have anywhere near the same capacity. (Cillian De Gascun)

Things do not appear to be gearing up yet, they are slowing down elsewhere due to limited access to reagents. Finland, Poland, France and other European countries have scaled down the volume of laboratory tests for this very reason.

Dr. Colm Henry went to great lengths to avoid answering questions asked of him last night and repeated the same point - access to reagents is an issue, every country affected is experiencing the same thing.

Seamai

leavingirl wrote: »

Citation needed.

Anyone with basic maths can look at the stats and work it out.

Rob A. Bank

A powerful series of photos showing the exhaustion and emotional stress etched on to the faces of Italian health workers.

During their shifts, which can run up to 12 hours, these doctors and nurses must be fully covered in protective equipment, which they cannot remove for even so much as a glass of water or a bathroom break. When they finish their shift and remove their mask, they bear deep imprints—physical and emotional—of their efforts to ease the crisis.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/coronavirus-italy-photos-doctors-and-nurses/608671/

mariaalice

Palmach wrote: »

Not true. They are paid far more.

Provided they work nights and weekends.

tobefrank321

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Checking temperature would detect the 'open' cases, those who are already shedding virus all over the place. Stopping them at the airport would have saved a lot of heartache and clusters here later.

If you looked closer at Nextstrain you would find that the Netherlands strain of virus infected Northern Italy, and from there back to Ireland.

Spot on.

Checking temperatures is a rapid way to determine if someone is shedding. Much faster and cheaper than the normal covid19 testing which can take a week or more to process from the time you are referred to getting results. Normal testing should be done too, but temperature checks is a good idea as well.

There is absolutely no way someone with a temperature over 38 degrees should be allowed fly or go anywhere. They should be in isolation. Its why countries like South Korea and China test temperatures of people everywhere. It isn't for the craic they do it. We still haven't learned from them unfortunately.

caveat emptor

Mallory Dead Self-confidence wrote: »

Sure you have Paddy. Sure you have.

Self importance on this thread is hilarious. I don't give two fvcks about paddy or his agenda. I don't think he is posting on here.

He has called out some glaringly obvious things like nurses don't have enough PPE. People calling out for him to be censored is hilarious.

Do they not see the irony with what china did to those whistleblowers?
Glad none of our doctors got locked up for breaking rank and begging for PPE.


Seems as though people on here would want that rather than the truth. Mental.

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Yeah, but as our fearless leader Leo previously said while Minister of Health, if we'd more beds it would slow down our nurses. :rolleyes::rolleyes:


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2016/more-hospital-beds-can-slow-down-staff-claims-minister-leo-varadkar-34430062.html

and of course clinicians and nurses under pressure are less likely to make mistakes?? wtf!! he's an awful twat. He never heard the phrase Haste makes waste.. Sure you're talking about a guy who pushes emergency legislation ad hoc and when it suits...no surprises there.

mariaalice

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Untrue. Ignore the union propaganda. Average nurse pay in Ireland is mid €50ks per year. Many ICU nurses will be on more than even that. At least, that's what the HSE say, and they pay the bill so should know. Also, the HSE pays for their 'advanced training' - they don't pay a penny themselves normally, and indeed, get fully paid time off work to attend the courses.

Are you really bring up a grip with nurses pay at this time?

Fakediamond

Palmach wrote: »

Not true. They are paid far more.

Are you including shift allowances etc? I wasn’t, as they are antisocial hours and should be remunerated accordingly. Can you show us the INMO scales for ICU nurses?

Busi_Girl08

rusty cole wrote: »

and of course clinicians and nurses under pressure are less likely to make mistakes?? wtf!! he's an awful twat. He never heard the phrase Haste makes waste.. Sure you're talking about a guy who pushes emergency legislation ad hoc and when it suits...no surprises there.

You mean during a global pandemic?

bilston

iwillyeah1234 wrote: »

Was just on the phone to a mate of mine who is living in Spain. The police response out there is unbelievably more restrictive than anything we’ve experienced so far in both Ireland and Britain.

On the beach on your own? Immediate fine.

Didn’t get back from supermarket within an hour? Immediate fine.

Checkpoints setup on roads - they will check your receipt time stamp. Don’t have the receipt? Immediate fine.

Not allowed into supermarkets without face mask and gloves.

People won't tolerate that for long.

iguana

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Checking temperature would detect the 'open' cases, those who are already shedding virus all over the place. Stopping them at the airport would have saved a lot of heartache and clusters here later.

If you looked closer at Nextstrain you would find that the Netherlands strain of virus infected Northern Italy, and from there back to Ireland.

Plenty of people have tested positive for Covid 19 without having a fever, or only having very brief spikes of high temperature when they were obviously ill. Countries with mass testing policies have found a huge proportion of asymptomatic carriers. A number of our first cases in Ireland were from an asymptomatic cluster who returned from North Italy. While many other people had high temperatures for other reasons. Temperature reading at airports may have slowed things down but not be a whole lot. We really should have announced a quarantine period for entering the country. As should the whole of the EU once it was obvious what was happening in Italy. That way we could have controlled our own domestic situations much better and been in a position to support Italy now.

wakka12

rusty cole wrote: »

A lot of rags today reporting stories whilst trying to tie them into the covid-19 category. Same for a well know one in the UK, when it's obvious a young girl died of a heart attack or sudden adult death syndrome (or at least it has more of the hallmarks than it's more famous killer de jour, COVID-19).

absolute fear mongers... if we're not uninfomed we're misinformed. not all media before some on line journos here start telling me to grab my foil hat...

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/newsireland/irish-family-hit-with-double-tragedy-as-husband-and-wife-tragically-die-on-same-day/ar-BB11VO7c?ocid=spartandhp

Yes I read about that, bizarre that it was labelled as a Covid death. But having said that, I don't think it necessarily the newspapers fault, her own family claimed she had died of covid 19

elperello

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Untrue. Ignore the union propaganda. Average nurse pay in Ireland is mid €50ks per year. Many ICU nurses will be on more than even that. At least, that's what the HSE say, and they pay the bill so should know. Also, the HSE pays for their 'advanced training' - they don't pay a penny themselves normally, and indeed, get fully paid time off work to attend the courses.

Hold on there.

The details of nurses pay is in the public domain.

Anyone can train as a nurse and earn the basic wage plus overtime and allowances.

The union works for their members which is normal.

Why do you put inverted commas on advanced training?

Training is part of the job in most sectors.