CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) **Read OP**

BrianD3

stephenjmcd wrote: »

To put this to bed once and for all here is all the proof you need

https://twitter.com/hpscireland/status/1245338278901014529?s=19

Thanks, that seems to be clarified now. Fair play to Gavan Reilly for chasing this. Earlier on, he posted a tweet saying the HSE had clarified that it was a current figure. But now at least there is a tweet from the horse's mouth.

There was an individual on this forum yesterday who was adamant that it was a current figure and was explaining to me like I'm a child that ICU is for serious cases while telling other posters that they need to go back to school. LOL.

fullstop

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Today's press conference lead by Dr Ronan Glynn is at 5:30pm

Cue pandemonium in here when it hasn’t started and the clock says 5:31pm. “How hard is it to start on time ffs”.

easypazz

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Of course you couldn't :rolleyes:

I don't think FG bots are helping their cause.

When this is all over there will be need for an investigation into all the mistakes FG have made and continue to make and how their mistakes gave covid19 a massive leg up when it came to spreading infections here.

Even today they haven't the cop on to realise you can't break the cycle of new infections if you keep introducing them from outside the country.

And as for a disclaimer I am not a SF, FF, GP or any political party supporter. I'm fairly sure they'd all be as bad in government, given the extremely shallow gene pool they are pulling from.

Nonsense, Irish people still need to get home, very few arriving in now anyway, and they are required to self isolate for 14 days.

Ace2007

frillyleaf wrote: »

In fairness at the time a lot of people had issues with government allowing people to fly to and from northern Italy and Cheltenham. The match had already been called off over here and people were still going to Cheltenham despite this. It’s not hindsight in that sense....

Your right, it's not hindsight in that sense, but it's like talking about the next recession, we all know it's coming, but do you know how bad it will be? You can have posters galore saying that we are going to be in the Sh!ts for years, others saying months, others saying whatever, some of them are going to be right, but that doesn't mean their logic for solutions are right does it?

Imagine if Leo came out tonight and announced that all healthcare works must sleep in hotels near their hospitals/nursing homes - and must do this for the next 2 months - no exceptions.

Everyone else must continue with this "lockdown" for the next 2 months at least.

There would be uproar in society - because you can't just lockdown people for large period of time with no end in sight and expect them to be ok with it. Everything has to be done in stages.

threeball

fullstop wrote: »

Cue pandemonium in here when it hasn’t started and the clock says 5:31pm. “How hard is it to start on time ffs”.

Only to be followed by wheres Dr Tony, does he have the virus.

TheAsYLuMkeY

This is just an observation,

There appears to be moderators a plenty posting on this thread, must be a free for all on other parts of the forum like the parents are away for the weekend!!!!

tobefrank321

tigger123 wrote: »

Just because they're not doing what you think they should do, doesn't meant they're doing it wrong.

They're listening to medical experts. That's good enough for me.

If governments start listening to the internet for what to do next, we're ****ed.

Their medical experts advised a doctor who returned from Northern Italy that it was ok to go to work in a hospital as there was nothing to worry about. He turned out to be covid 19 positive. That's just one example.

josip

Ace2007 wrote: »

What i don't get is why everything that happens in this country people blame the government. No one ever thinks maybe they are doing all that they can, they can't stop the virus - no country has.

When bad things happen to a child they often try to blame or give out to someone else.
As we grow older, most of us learn to take responsibility for our own actions and to realise that some things are not anyone's 'fault'.
Some people just never make that transition unfortunately.

Kalyke

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Today's press conference lead by Dr Ronan Glynn is at 5:30pm

What time is the presser today??

is_that_so

weldoninhio wrote: »

The first line is absolute nonsense. If you self quarantine for 2 weeks without getting tested you've no idea if you had it or not, you could leave your house and contract it from the car and head back into work spreading it all around.

Well this is the message from the CMO and you should take it up with him when he gets out of hospital. Contract it in your car? How does that work?

weldoninhio

is_that_so wrote: »

Do a search for reagent shortage, plenty of other examples out there. This is Harris from this morning on it.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/harris-number-critical-coronavirus-cases-worry-us-992669

The people who LITERALLY MAKE IT have said there is no shortage. What possible reason would they have to lie?

Ace2007

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Even today they haven't the cop on to realise you can't break the cycle of new infections if you keep introducing them from outside the country.

And as for a disclaimer I am not a SF, FF, GP or any political party supporter. I'm fairly sure they'd all be as bad in government, given the extremely shallow gene pool they are pulling from.

What government has ? China are constantly reporting imported cases - so even they aren't stopping people entering.

I've actually read a lot of your posts, and in agreement with a good few, i just don't get the constant attacking of the government who have all the medical experts given them the advice, quite frankly even if Mary Lou was in charge the advice would be the same -

Martina1991

weldoninhio wrote:

The companies who make reagent have completely debunked this. They have said that there is no shortage of the relevant reagents.

Are you basing that on a tweet that was posted here yesterday.

joe40

Martina1991 wrote: »

I dont recall saying we were processing 5k a day. Some other posters here did. It was planned to provide that many tests a day by the end of April, up until these shortages occured.

How can we "test test test" without the necessary reagents.

Its like everyone looking for hand sanitiser. You assume it'll be there when you need it. You assume the suppliers will keep up with demand until they can't.

Everyone has demand for the same thing. And we will have to wait until they can produce more.

But you are just determined to call the service a disaster no matter what the numbers are.

---

I dont know why you are so obsessed with test numbers when all experts are saying the numbers that matter are the ICU capacities and deaths.

Test numbers are of importance for determining the spread. Contract tracing now estimates the number of contacts per case is now down to 3. It was 20. Social distancing is working.

My understanding, and you could correct if I'm wrong but a positive test won't influence treatment. There is no cure for the actual virus the medic treat the symptoms. If they're not serious you just stay at home and self isolate.

I Am The Law

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

This is just an observation,

There appears to be moderators a plenty posting on this thread, must be a free for all on other parts of the forum like the parents are away for the weekend!!!!

That feckin Beasty don't miss much.

threeball

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Their medical experts advised a doctor who returned from Northern Italy that it was ok to go to work in a hospital as there was nothing to worry about. He turned out to be covid 19 positive. That's just one example.

You think thats unique to ireland or just a learning process when dealing with a disease no one knew anything about? Hindsight is great

tobefrank321

easypazz wrote: »

Nonsense, Irish people still need to get home, very few arriving in now anyway, and they are required to self isolate for 14 days.

So you know they are self isolating?

Isolating with their own family is pointless if they are infected. They spread it to their family who then spread it in the community. And then the government have to extend the lockdown, over and over.

is_that_so

weldoninhio wrote: »

The people who LITERALLY MAKE IT have said there is no shortage. What possible reason would they have to lie?

This was also stated at the DoH briefing last night. Are they lying too?

paw patrol

Danzy wrote: »

There are some real knob heads out there.

No fan of Fg or leo but himself and Harris etc. have really delivered.

have they?
the testing process is a sham. They could have acted sooner on foreign travel etc.. they didn't. They acted in the interest of business in particular the insurance industry.

They are managing the optics well , and managing the mood and expectations very well with good speeches etc...wheeling out Dr. Holohan etc.. which is positive.

We'll see when the dust settles how successful or correct they were

tobefrank321

threeball wrote: »

You think thats unique to ireland or just a learning process when dealing with a disease no one knew anything about? Hindsight is great

Ah the old hindsight is great line.

It was a dumb excuse 3 weeks ago and its still a dumb excuse used by FG and their base.

Martina1991

joe40 wrote:

My understanding, and you could correct if I'm wrong but a positive test won't influence treatment. There is no cure for the actual virus the medic treat the symptoms. If they're not serious you just stay at home and self isolate.

Exactly right.

Icyseanfitz

Redeploying up to 16,000 SNAs back out to work to free up other workers, surely this is a terrible idea and will spread the virus, particularly if said SNAs are sent to work in care home or elderly care.

Ten of Swords

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

This is just an observation,

There appears to be moderators a plenty posting on this thread, must be a free for all on other parts of the forum like the parents are away for the weekend!!!!

Yeah you'd think...

:pac:

frillyleaf

Ace2007 wrote: »

But one poster is saying you self isolate them on entry - i.e. you don't give them a choice - arrive in Dublin airport - straight to hotel and you can't leave -

The way your saying above - is that way it is at the moment.

This is needed at this stage

Gynoid

Chin up and listen to a granny

https://twitter.com/islaanne1/status/1245022838962163712?s=19

TheAsYLuMkeY

Ace2007 wrote: »

There would be uproar in society - because you can't just lockdown people for large period of time with no end in sight and expect them to be ok with it. Everything has to be done in stages.

I feel the same way, i believ they know exactly what measure they will introduce and when in small steps to get people to adjust gradually to it.

If they had comeout two weeks ago and said all pubs, restaurants, gyms, public spaces and gatherings of more than four people are coming in tomorrow,it would have received a backlash.

But i do think they can move faster

threeball

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Ah the old hindsight is great line.

It was a dumb excuse 3 weeks ago and its still a dumb excuse used by FG and their base.

That was the first case in the entire country and you think the response should have been perfect, just like it was all over europe, the middle East and the states. You could do with chilling out. You'll give yourself an ulcer.

gabeeg

gabeeg wrote: »

The terrible travel advice for Cheltenham and elsewhere will lead to many Irish infections and deaths.

Sorry if that upsets you, but it's fact.

This was here long before Cheltenham. It is not the fault of any racegoer, skier, concert goer, pub drinker or anyone else, and we have to stop blaming each other and get united to beat this.

frillyleaf

Ace2007 wrote: »

But one poster is saying you self isolate them on entry - i.e. you don't give them a choice - arrive in Dublin airport - straight to hotel and you can't leave -

The way your saying above - is that way it is at the moment.

This is needed at this stage

STB.

STB. wrote: »

And you are still posting.

Oh they are cumulative, infact the numbers have been accumulating, since day 1. They are live beds taken up at any one time. And they don't turn around quickly. Right now its 84 being cared for. It is the one figure that concentrates the mind, because when we breach the ICU capacity we are in trouble, the system is overwhelmed and there will be decisions about who gets critical care.

And I quoted the numbers to you and how they have accumulated. They went up as high as 88 yesterday. 88 people in ICU being treated for a critical condition. Then they went down to 84. Why was that ? 10 people died, and more were admitted to ICU.

I'm not explaining it to you again, because if you didn't get it the 5th time I explained it you, you should go back and study very basic maths. I suggest primary school level.

Hospitalisation ? You see there's another can of worms you don't understand either.

When people are hospitalised for Covid19, it was done for observation and isolation in mild cases. Some of these may have deteriorated and then ended up in ICU. However, there are also patients who haven't even been tested showing up in a bad day having followed the governments advice to self isolate and contact a GP if showing symptoms to get a test. Some have waited so long, the test became irrelevant and are now presenting in a bad way directly at ICU's, because they cannot breathe.

That's why the ICU numbers shot up from 17 to 47 almost tripled between 20th and 24th March.

YOU ARE W R O N G.

I await hearing how you are going to ignore the facts below?

stephenjmcd wrote: »

To put this to bed once and for all here is all the proof you need

https://twitter.com/hpscireland/status/1245338278901014529?s=19

frillyleaf

frillyleaf wrote: »

This is needed at this stage

we are not trying to stop this thing. We are just trying to manage its spread and ensue that it is an optimum level for the ICU units to handle. The fact is that, absent a vaccine, everyone is going to get this thing.

IMO, the trajectory that we are on looks like it might be as close to optimal as we can expect. I dont see the point in further restrictions at this stage.

Your alternative is that we shut everything down until we get a vaccine. Well, that just isnt going to happen, and I really think that the airports are not a big deal any more

Ace2007

paw patrol wrote: »

have they?
the testing process is a sham. They could have acted sooner on foreign travel etc.. they didn't. They acted in the interest of business in particular the insurance industry.

They are managing the optics well , and managing the mood and expectations very well with good speeches etc...wheeling out Dr. Holohan etc.. which is positive.

We'll see when the dust settles how successful or correct they were

When you make decision in life, you make them with the information you have at hand, and you hope that the outcome is right - but it's not always that simple - life throws up unexpected sh!t and you have to deal with it. You can't say if we have 500 deaths or 2,000 deaths that it was a success or failure.

Kermit.de.frog

I don't get the ambiguity around the numbers admitted to ICU.

Most other countries are upfront about the numbers who are actually in and have been admitted to ICU over the previous 24 hours.

Giving a cumulative figure for the whole COVID-19 period gives zero context and is irrelevant to the here and now.

cameramonkey

Martina1991 wrote: »

I dont recall saying we were processing 5k a day. Some other posters here did. It was planned to provide that many tests a day by the end of April, up until these shortages occured.

But you are just determined to call the service a disaster no matter what the numbers are.

I don't think I said disaster (maybe I did) but I may have said incompetent. I think at some stages the HSE reaction has been incompetent and I also think they have done some good work. They are better than many but not as good as many other. The one thing they could do is actually tell it like it is, that is pretty simple unless you are trying to spin and hide. The HSE are not know for their transparency and we can see that unfolding now.



In a few of your posts you relayed incorrect testing numbers, they always erred on the exaggerated figures that were being spun by the HSE and others.

I cant remember your exact words but you said something to the effect that RTE had reported that about 5,000 tests are being carried out a day in labs,

I don't think you supported that with any link but you posted it anyway. If you are to remain credible I think its a good idea to check your sources.
You say you are involved in science surely you should be aware that checking facts is crucial, you could call it scientific even.

podgeandrodge

I posted this late last night which probably wasn't a great time to get many responses.

Who/what circumstances are the people NOW getting infected?

podgeandrodge wrote: »

So, basic enough question!

Right now, and I know we are behind in the cases being identified now, but right now, where are people getting infected in general?

Supermarket seems reasonably unlikely with distancing (hopefully)

Shared lifts/buttons, keypads etc - again, with what people now know, hopefully not too much

Public transport - not very much going on any more and people still working would hopefully be distancing on the transport mechanisms

Apartment blocks - people walking by each other - hopefully distancing

So where do people think the cases that we see in 2 weeks will derive from?

Ace2007 wrote: »

Well this is exactly how we are going to slow it down,

Given the latest recommendation of healthcare workers not living together, I think it's fair to say a lot of cases are coming from treating those with the virus in hospitals, and the HSE are trying to avoid large numbers of healthcare workers getting sick at the one time.

amadangomor wrote: »

Good point.

Still plenty of people going to work so this will be a driver. Only takes one person in an office to have it then the people they spread it to bring it home and infect their whole household.

fullstop

New Home wrote: »

Belfast is still ABROAD.

Simple: you come back from abroad? You don't move from your house for a fortnight. Not for shopping, not for any other reason. If you need a doctor or supplies you ring someone. It's not foolproof and it does need to be monitored, but it would have been a simple, valid way to contain the spread. Nobody can stop the virus, but they sure as hell can slow its spread right down.

The resident SF fans, and criticisers of all things current government won’t know what to do with this...slating the government is worthy of a thank, but calling Belfast “abroad” :eek:

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I don't get the ambiguity around the numbers admitted to ICU.

Most other countries are upfront about the numbers who are actually in and have been admitted to ICU over the previous 24 hours.

Giving a cumulative figure for the whole COVID-19 period gives zero context and is irrelevant to the here and now.

Just to point out just because I have been arguing that the numbers are cumulative does not mean I agree with giving cumulative numbers. We should be given current numbers.

Dumb question. If you get Covid-19 and have recovered can you still spread the virus via hands etc.?

fritzelly

fritzelly wrote: »

Anything to say Nox?

Yes, look at the latest update with confirmation directly from the HSE.

stephenjmcd wrote: »

To put this to bed once and for all here is all the proof you need

https://twitter.com/hpscireland/status/1245338278901014529?s=19

podgeandrodge

Deleted User wrote: »

Dumb question. If you get Covid-19 and have recovered can you still spread the virus via hands etc.?

Have to say yes. The virus is on your hands and you are spreading it. Nothing to do with you as a person having contracted the virus.

Naggdefy

If the press conference (I can't bring myself to call it 'presser' it's like knobs who call Croke Park 'Croker') starts at 5.30 sharp, Ronan is after Tony's job

I betya the German press conference starts on time

tobefrank321

Deleted User wrote: »

we are not trying to stop this thing. We are just trying to manage its spread and ensue that it is an optimum level for the ICU units to handle. The fact is that, absent a vaccine, everyone is going to get this thing.

IMO, the trajectory that we are on looks like it might be as close to optimal as we can expect. I dont see the point in further restrictions at this stage.

Your alternative is that we shut everything down until we get a vaccine. Well, that just isnt going to happen, and I really think that the airports are not a big deal any more

We have another week until the ICUs reach optimal capacity. What then?

Bearing in mind a vaccine is at least a year away.

podgeandrodge

fritzelly wrote: »

Anything to say Nox?

In fairness, he has accepted and acknowledged the facts that have now been provided.

podgeandrodge

podgeandrodge wrote: »

In fairness, he has accepted and acknowledged the facts that have now been provided.

The facts being that the numbers are cumulative. This should be the end of this now, the debate is over.

paw patrol

Ace2007 wrote: »

When you make decision in life, you make them with the information you have at hand, and you hope that the outcome is right - but it's not always that simple - life throws up unexpected sh!t and you have to deal with it. You can't say if we have 500 deaths or 2,000 deaths that it was a success or failure.

agreed.

But we all knew that north Italy was poxed yet the skiers and tourists were out there. You'd be thick not to think given the type of event Cheltenham was not to consider it would cause mass infections on the return of the rabble who went.
etc....etc....

There was little if any pre-emptive decisions at the time only reactionary.

Of course, they have made good decisions, i'm trying to be fair.

But let's not beatify them yet - was only a few months ago people wanted Dr. Holohans head on a spike and FG were given a kicking in an election.

wakka12

Deleted User wrote: »

Dumb question. If you get Covid-19 and have recovered can you still spread the virus via hands etc.?

Yes even if you are immune you will still pick up the virus on your skin and can pass it to other people's hands or objects. I dont think its a stupid question at all, I would say a lot of people will fall into the trap of thinking they have no responsibiltiy to do any hand washing etc after they recover as they think they are not capable of spreading it because they can no longer catch it

A different topic but I also think a lot of people will mistakenly think that because they went to get tested for COVID once because they had symptoms and it turned out they didnt have it and tested negative and then they think that they will never get it now even though their chances of contracting it are still the exact same as before they got tested

cameramonkey

tobefrank321 wrote: »

We have another week until the ICUs reach optimal capacity. What then?

Bearing in mind a vaccine is at least a year away.

We do not know when the ICUs will reach optimal capacity, that is guess work on your part.

kingshankly

This day next week Uk will have some scary figures

threeball

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Have to say yes. The virus is on your hands and you are spreading it. Nothing to do with you as a person having contracted the virus.

Apparently you can also spread the disease for up to 8 days after symptoms subside.

Ger Roe

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Have to say yes. The virus is on your hands and you are spreading it. Nothing to do with you as a person having contracted the virus.

Clarification needed there with that statement - do you spread it because you are still affected with the virus, or if you come in contact with it from another source, you can pick it up and deposit it, just like anyone else?

I would hope it's the latter and not that you become a super spreader after you clear the symptoms of infection.