Masks

BrianD3

Irish_peppa wrote: »

I have a mask decent one used it for painting. i would wear it while im shopping but for the life of me i cant get the confidence to put it on. I feel a bit of a jack ass with it on in public. i brought it with me in the car to go to lidl and went to strap it on but looked in the rear view mirror and thought "jasus everyone will be looking at me with this thing on" left it on car seat I should stop caring what others think of me! From what I saw not many people wear them so didnt want to be the odd man out :P

+1, I was in Tesco this morning, very few (~5%) customers wearing masks or even gloves. I wore my nitrile gloves but didn't wear any of my masks as I am still "building up" to doing so - partly for the reasons you describe. There is no mask wearing culture in this country, there's a fear of standing out from the herd, looking like an awkward individual or a lunatic etc. We're all susceptible to cultural influences. If the authorities wanted to, they could normalise the wearing of masks very easily as we will generally do what our shepherd tells us to do if we think it's in our interest.

gozunda

Yes: surgical

GreeBo wrote: »

Ah here. There are studies that show people are more risk embracing when they are wearing protective equipment than otherwise. Comparing that to not wearing trousers is just silly.

These people aren't cretins, they are normal people who are not used to going about their daily business wearing PPE.
Washing your hands is a perfectly normal thing to do, we have been doing it all our lives so asking people to do something normal more frequently isnt a big leap, wearing PPE isn't normal for 99% of the world. You are being silly equating them to jumpers and trousers is frankly nonsense.

Ever use a hedge trimmer and feel like Arnie in Predator? Thats the subconscious you are demanding that people fight against.

De fuk? Who is "embracing" who whilst wearing ppe???

The advisory is not to shake hands etc - hugging random strangers or otherwise is also out afaik

The comparison of clothes is a foil to the idea that somehow anyone who puts on a mask would automatically forgo other sensible precautions. Its deranged logic as much as not putting your trousers on because youre already wearing a jumper.

And no its those mythical people who allegedly cant figure out that washing your hands properly is as important as wearing a mask properly who would be categorised as a member of the cretin group. Thankfully I believe for the most part they dont exist imo.

You know what's not normal atm? Its the global pandemic. That's why we are been asked to stay at home, observe constant and rigorous hygiene and why we should all be using masks when out and about. It's not rocket science ffs.


Ive used a hedgetrmmer on many occasions. And no - Ive never belueved I was Arnold Swarcheneger whilst doing so ...

Gynoid

Sam Quentin wrote: »

The sewing skills are not necessary,and would put anyone off attempting to make masks....hot glue guns work perfectly well with material(cotton).

And this friends, is what happens when men need to sew...

Jurgen Klopp

Wibbs wrote: »

Never even considered the glue option. Good call S.

Those people most at risk, those over 70's men and women would be more able for sewing than younger folks. My mum made clothes for me and others when I was a kid and my dad was handy with needle and thread too. It was a skill learned by many in the past. Might be a way to use those skills? The worry would be breaking the cocooning aspect in distribution.

As a man of 30 I thought myself from some very helpful old yankie women via YouTube

It's actually a great skill to have for anyone, numerous clothes repaired rather than being tossed out like some would. I am talking more of lining ripping mind as you can fix that as good as new

cnocbui

maxsmum wrote: »

I saw group of young lads sitting outside Tesco with masks on, as if a new fashion trend, I doubt they were all siblings from the same household, they looked like eejits

I'd rather them looking like eejits than them, or someone else, looking like a corpse.

I can sew, after a fashion. It may not be pretty...

na1

unless it is a full face mask it is no use
the infection can pass through eyes

GreeBo

Yes: other

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah, there are risks. I acknowledge that there are risks that I could get the virus. I just keep the trips outside to a minimum and I don't worry that much about it.

But thats ignoring all the people you are infecting on your second trip after you yourself were infected but asymptomatic on your first...

Wibbs

Yes: other

BrianD3 wrote: »

+1, I was in Tesco this morning, very few (~5%) customers wearing masks or even gloves. I wore my nitrile gloves but didn't wear any of my masks as I am still "building up" to doing so - partly for the reasons you describe. There is no mask wearing culture in this country, there's a fear of standing out from the herd, looking like an awkward individual or a lunatic etc. We're all susceptible to cultural influences. If the authorities wanted to, they could normalise the wearing of masks very easily as we will generally do what our shepherd tells us to do if we think it's in our interest.

I'm congenitally contrary by default B so don't give a toss, but that's not normal. Like you say normal people tend to be more community minded, which is normally a very good thing, hence we selected for it as a social animal. So yeah we'd need more top down or bottom up encouragement for social change in this. Sadly the HSE have sown the seed of they're no use outside of hospitals pretty deep to the point where even the brightest among us don't question it too much. Though more are starting to.

I think we need to start something more locally, make it a fashion, spread the "virus" on social media until it catches on. Like they did in the Czech Republic. When it reaches a tipping point those same people in Tesco will feel daft for not wearing one and will look askance at those who don't.

na1

cnocbui wrote: »

I'd rather them looking like eejits than them, or someone else, looking like a corpse.

I can sew, after a fashion. It may not be pretty...

the amount of time you spend contacting other people even with mask a& gloves greatly increases the risk of infection!

They're morons not for wearing masks, but for breaking the isolation restrictions.

There are many cases of doctors got virus in hospitals all around the globe, being wearing full protection

GreeBo

Yes: other

gozunda wrote: »

De fuk? Who is "embracing" who whilst wearing ppe???

The advisory is not to shake hands etc - hugging random strangers or otherwise is also out afaik

Ok so we are now at basic reading comprehension failure so I'm afraid I cant help you any further.

GreeBo

Yes: other

Gynoid wrote: »

And this friends, is what happens when men need to sew...

feck it lads, use a bloody stapler and staple from inside out.

GreeBo

Yes: other

na1 wrote: »

unless it is a full face mask it is no use
the infection can pass through eyes

a bulletproof vest is no used since a bullet can pass through your head.
a bulletproof helmet is no use since a bullet can pass through your face.


Its all about reducing rather than eliminating risk.

Wibbs

Yes: other

na1 wrote: »

unless it is a full face mask it is no use
the infection can pass through eyes

Oh FFS. NO.

1) Masks demonstrably reduce risk in a twofold manner; by reducing the spread of droplets by the infected and reducing the ingestion of droplets in those who aren't. In the SARS outbreak masks were noted to be strongly protective, eye protection wasn't even in the mix for most studies.

2) the eye infection route has not been fully established. The main route of infection is through the airways of the nose throat and lungs. Just like having the virus on your hands doesn't make you sick. It's when you touch your mouth and nose they get transferred to where they need to go to infect you.

cnocbui

na1 wrote: »

unless it is a full face mask it is no use
the infection can pass through eyes

That's what you have swimming goggles for. But really, Wibbs is right, this virus attaches to ACE2 receptors, which are in the lungs and nose.

na1

GreeBo wrote: »

a bulletproof vest is no used since a bullet can pass through your head.
a bulletproof helmet is no use since a bullet can pass through your face.


Its all about reducing rather than eliminating risk.

The virus is not a bullet, it is spreading with a cloud of micro droplets when someone sneeze.

How do you think mouth mask will reduce the virus penetrating your body?
It is like protecting from tear gas with a mouth mask

na1

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh FFS. NO.

1) Masks demonstrably reduce risk in a twofold manner; by reducing the spread of droplets by the infected .

The masks on infected people do protect you,
the mask on yourself doesn't protect you.

biko

Yes: valved

If we both wear masks, then I protect you and you protect me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZtEX2-n2Hc

Wibbs

Yes: other

na1 wrote: »

There are many cases of doctors got virus in hospitals all around the globe, being wearing full protection

I don't even...

Of course doctors and nurses are more vulnerable. They're in direct contact with multiple infected people releasing large amounts of viral material for many hours at a time. Most of them aren't wearing full dangerous pathogen protection gear, relying on face masks of various levels of actual protection and gloves and gowns. If they can even get them. The slightest slip up in such an environment can lead to infection. Even then, right in the firing line, the majority of doctors and nurses don't get infected.

The joke is no military leadership would send their men into an environment that risky, not without full NBC kit. And it's been like that for decades.



Armies around the world are actually better equipped for something like this than most medical people. And there is a lot of stock sitting on army supply shelves. Hell you can buy all of that kit as surplus on ebay for feck all. Which begs the question could armies not start repurpose some of that gear and supply training to use it to medical people now? Especially those going in and out of isolation wards filled with infected people. I realise that kit is a curse to work in, but it's far more protective.

stratowide

na1 wrote: »

The masks on infected people do protect you,
the mask on yourself doesn't protect you.

Have the masks got one way valves fitted or what..?

Wibbs

Yes: other

na1 wrote: »

The masks on infected people do protect you,
the mask on yourself doesn't protect you.

Why do some insist on doubling down on their ignorance of a subject? Never mind the contrary logic in that statement of yours. Think. If a mask on an infected person reduces the spread of viral particles getting out, how does the same mask on a non infected person magically become useless at reducing the spread of viral particles getting in? They're not a one way system for god's sake.

How do you think mouth mask will reduce the virus penetrating your body?
It is like protecting from tear gas with a mouth mask

Nope. It is not. For a start a gas is not directional. The slightest chink in protection and it gets through. This virus spreads in expelled droplets that are directional. A non permeable barrier in front of your mouth and nose, even with slight openings at the sides will reduce the risk of said droplets getting through to your airways. Why the hell do you think medical people wear them? Put it another way, if I had pepper spray aimed at your mouth and nose, which would you prefer? No mask or mask?

You do realise you're just parroting verbatim what your were told, without putting any thought into the mix?

cnocbui

na1 wrote: »

The masks on infected people do protect you,
the mask on yourself doesn't protect you.

Yeah, sure they don't, people wear these just for the fun of it:



That's mine, I wore it for weeks while laying floors using contact cement with toluene as the solvent - nasty stuff. This thing scrubbed fumes, let alone droplets, to the point I couldn't smell the toluene while wearing it, proving it's efficacy.

You're spouting the same rubbish the WHO have been. All sorts of people in numerous industries wear protective masks - because they Work. Engage brain.

Gynoid

Wibbs wrote: »

I think we need to start something more locally, make it a fashion, spread the "virus" on social media until it catches on. Like they did in the Czech Republic. When it reaches a tipping point those same people in Tesco will feel daft for not wearing one and will look askance at those who don't.

About 4 weeks ago when we were hearing whisperings from Clare I was chatting with a friend of mine who had just the previous day returned from Asia. She said in the places she had been loads of people automatically wore masks, out shopping etc , because for one thing it is culturally considered to be the absolute height of ignorance to cough or sneeze in a public market place and thus possibly infect someone else with anything, never mind covid.
I had just before our chat come back from a local shop where someone had hacked wetly into their hand and then delved into their purse to get money for the check out lady. It is only over time that people become aware of their own unconscious ignorance. Hopefully things will change.

Wibbs

Yes: other

cnocbui wrote: »

Yeah, sure they don't, people wear these just for the fun of it:

That's mine, I wore it for weeks while laying floors using contact cement with toluene as the solvent - nasty stuff. This thing scrubbed fumes, let alone droplets, to the point I couldn't smell the toluene while wearing it, proving it's efficacy.

You're spouting the same rubbish the WHO have been. All sorts of people in numerous industries wear protective masks - because they Work. Engage brain.

+1 C and again the difference in protection levels between industry(and the military) and medicine is pretty stark. A construction site would be closed down and lawsuits would fly and unions would be flipping out if their workers were only wearing what medical folks would consider pretty good protection.

If a construction guy showed up for work on a site with fumes or dust dressed like this:


He'd be told to go home.

khalessi

Yes: surgical

After the EBola crisis research showed most medicl staff were infected reomoviing the gear so this could be a factor along with the lack of proper PPE

Gentleman Off The Pitch

Yes: to protect myself and others

Wibbs wrote: »

Why do some insist on doubling down on their ignorance of a subject? Never mind the contrary logic in that statement of yours. Think. If a mask on an infected person reduces the spread of viral particles getting out, how does the same mask on a non infected person magically become useless at reducing the spread of viral particles getting in? They're not a one way system for god's sake.

Nope. It is not. For a start a gas is not directional. The slightest chink in protection and it gets through. This virus spreads in expelled droplets that are directional. A non permeable barrier in front of your mouth and nose, even with slight openings at the sides will reduce the risk of said droplets getting through to your airways. Why the hell do you think medical people wear them? Put it another way, if I had pepper spray aimed at your mouth and nose, which would you prefer? No mask or mask?

You do realise you're just parroting verbatim what your were told, without putting any thought into the mix?

Would donning a FFP3 mask with exhalation valve in Lidl make one look like a mé féiner or do they offer some protection to people who come into contact with the wearer ?

biko

Yes: valved

Sweden has many masks for the military, and the plan was to hand them out to staff.
But they cannot be used by anyone because they don't have the required "CE" EEA marking...

Wibbs

Yes: other

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

Would donning a FFP3 mask with exhalation valve in Lidl make one look like a mé féiner or do they offer some protection to people who come into contact with the wearer ?

Not really G. Though they give about as much protection as possible to the wearer, their major disadvantage as you note is that they've an unflitered exhalation valve. I suppose they would reduce the spread to a fair degree as they build up a lot of condensation inside so a lot of air and droplets aren't leaving the mask? In the one I have when I breathe out I can't feel the breeze against my hand to nearly the same degree as I would without it.

Wibbs

Yes: other

biko wrote: »

Sweden has many masks for the military, and the plan was to hand them out to staff.
But they cannot be used by anyone because they don't have the required "CE" EEA marking...

Bloody bureaucrats . Sounds about right. Never mind that military stuff has been tested and tested for donkey's years. It's also meant to be easy and quick to use and train up in. That and logistics is what the military are the very best at.

GreeBo

Yes: other

na1 wrote: »

The virus is not a bullet, it is spreading with a cloud of micro droplets when someone sneeze.

How do you think mouth mask will reduce the virus penetrating your body?
It is like protecting from tear gas with a mouth mask

because they typically "penetrate" your mouth and nose, which a mask covers.

They are not nano-bots that are eating their way through your skin!

GreeBo

Yes: other

stratowide wrote: »

Have the masks got one way valves fitted or what..?

I think he is confusing wearing a mask with tying a plastic bag over your head.