Masks

paleoperson

Yes: surgical

nocoverart wrote: »

Not an expert on Masks but bought some KN95 Masks on Pigsback, would these be better than Surgical Masks?

Yes, they are the Chinese version of N95 masks. The US used to refuse to accept them, however just in the past day or so they've caved and will now accept the KN95 masks. I bought a 10 pack the other day (I already have lots of masks and I'll only be going out once a week or so), but I'd worry they might increase dramatically in price/fall in stock now. N95 masks are going at crazy prices, 10 times what they used to be?!

khalessi

Yes: surgical

Thingymebob wrote: »

I just checked our emails to see when we started planning. We placed mask orders on February 1st, along with hand sanitizers and gloves. We brought our chest freezer on 5th, and topped up our panadol stash over the next two weeks. I still felt stupid in mid February, thinking I was wasting money splurging on PPE and a freezer, but now I’m glad. I have mild asthma, two autoimmune conditions and am immunosuppressed. If I get it, I’ll potentially suffer badly.

Similar, I got 2 boxes of gloves in January and then went to various shopes to get masks the following day, because at that stage the chemist was out of masks. and didnt know when they would be in. I was lucky to get some good masks and some mediocre ones.

spookwoman

No: I don't care enough

mask specs and comparisons
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1791500O/comparison-ffp2-kn95-n95-filtering-facepiece-respirator-classes-tb.pdf

nocoverart

Yes: surgical

paleoperson wrote: »

Yes, they are the Chinese version of N95 masks. The US used to refuse to accept them, however just in the past day or so they've caved and will now accept the KN95 masks. I bought a 10 pack the other day (I already have lots of masks and I'll only be going out once a week or so), but I'd worry they might increase dramatically in price/fall in stock now. N95 masks are going at crazy prices, 10 times what they used to be?!

And are they reusable, can you wash them? I'm sorry, I'm a bit naive with all this.

paleoperson

Yes: surgical

nocoverart wrote: »

And are they reusable, can you wash them? I'm sorry, I'm a bit naive with all this.

No. However reusing one is better than nothing. A properly fitted N95 mask was found able to protect x13 times from the SARS virus. There might be something to the "shur the fooleens will probably end up infecting demselves" mantra where the taking off the mask can be hazardous if some of the virus got caught in the air filters.

Even homemade masks or scarves will help, especially in protecting others from the person wearing them.

2u2me

nocoverart wrote: »

And are they reusable, can you wash them? I'm sorry, I'm a bit naive with all this.

Washing and drying can also damage the fibres of the mask and make them less effective. So if you do try to be careful.

If you have enough masks you can perhaps leave them dry out after use for about 7 days in the air naturally come back to them then.

Bob24

nocoverart wrote: »

And are they reusable, can you wash them? I'm sorry, I'm a bit naive with all this.

In theory they shouldn’t be reused. In practice if you only have a few it’s OK to use them a few times. But when you take them off and store them at home, be mindful that after use the front of the mask will be covered by whatever it might have blocked (ie potentially the virus). So don’t touch that part when you take it off and wait for a while before reusing it.

They are only good for a few hours of use though. So even if you reuse them you should be mindful of your total number of hours of use (ideally don’t breath through them more than 5 hours). And also don’t let them get dusty between uses.

Away With The Fairies

Yes: valved

Bob24 wrote: »

Btw did you manage to procure your masks recently or you got them before the **** hit the fan?

I definitely see in increase in people wearing masks in my area but I though they had de come near impossible to find now - wondering if those people had the mask one or 2 weeks ago and were not using them or if they actually managed to buy them since then (which would be great if people are managing to to that but I was under the impression that it is near impossible).

I went looking for masks when the first case was announced in Ireland, that was over a month ago and every chemist was sold out... And our government telling us we were low risk, so I don't know if the Irish were preparing, I certainly wasn't. I have a sewing machine and made my own. Would feel bad buying surgical masks now when there's a shortage and would prefer if the professionals get those.

Thestones

I managed to pick up a few surgical type masks a few weeks ago in a local pharmacy, they would only sell 5 per customer which is fair but I’ve used them all already. I have a Nike snood type thing that goes right over your nose and mouth, and you can tighten it at the back so I can use that going forward, better than nothing and at least I can wash it between uses. A friend said she just bought a box of 50 surgical masks in her local pharmacy yesterday, they had just got them back in, paid €75 for 50 which is crazy and I’m suprised the pharmacy sold an entire box to one person, I thought the frontline needed these masks.

Wibbs

Yes: other

Thestones wrote: »

A friend said she just bought a box of 50 surgical masks in her local pharmacy yesterday, they had just got them back in, paid €75 for 50 which is crazy and I’m suprised the pharmacy sold an entire box to one person, I thought the frontline needed these masks.

Some pharmacies are being responsible and not price gouging, some are very much not.

cryptocurrency

Wibbs wrote: »

Some pharmacies are being responsible and not price gouging, some are very much not.

Surgical masks were 45 euro for 1000 in January. P3 Masks were about 1.50 each in January. I also got hand sanitizer for 25 euro for 5 liter bottles in January.

It was obvious by then this virus was coming our way.

Wibbs

Yes: other

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Surgical masks were 45 euro for 1000 in January. P3 Masks were about 1.50 each in January. I also got hand sanitizer for 25 euro for 5 liter bottles in January.

It was obvious by then this virus was coming our way.

Outside of a handful of prepper type folks it was anything but "obvious" and any premonitions were far more luck than judgement and only look like prescience in the rear view mirror. With a hint of a gloating I told you so.

SARS could have also being "coming our way", ditto for MERS and H7N9, all of which have much higher lethality. Swine flu did come our way and caught the world napping. Hell, as we speak with the Covid19 rampaging through the world yet another strain of avian flu has had an outbreak in China(funny. Not shocked). No reported jump to people yet.

cryptocurrency

Wibbs wrote: »

Outside of a handful of prepper type folks it was anything but "obvious" and any premonitions were far more luck than judgement and only look like prescience in the rear view mirror. With a hint of a gloating I told you so.

SARS could have also being "coming our way", ditto for MERS and H7N9, all of which have much higher lethality. Swine flu did come our way and caught the world napping. Hell, as we speak with the Covid19 rampaging through the world yet another strain of avian flu has had an outbreak in China(funny. Not shocked). No reported jump to people yet.

I have been mindful since I caught Swine flu. Horrible experince.

Wibbs

Yes: other

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I have been mindful since I caught Swine flu. Horrible experince.

Oh sure CC, so you were in wary mode already and that's understandable, but it wasn't so obvious at all it would get this crazy.

cryptocurrency

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh sure CC, so you were in wary mode already and that's understandable, but it wasn't so obvious at all it would get this crazy.

I think the lockdown in Wuhan was the canary in the coalmine. I stand by my assesment that western leadership on this whole affair has been woeful.

2u2me

Wibbs wrote: »

Outside of a handful of prepper type folks it was anything but "obvious" and any premonitions were far more luck than judgement and only look like prescience in the rear view mirror. With a hint of a gloating I told you so.

Markets were already sliding in late January.

khalessi

Yes: surgical

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh sure CC, so you were in wary mode already and that's understandable, but it wasn't so obvious at all it would get this crazy.

Watching the way it spread in China I thought it was obvious what would happen and when the first cases appeared outside of China I knew it was ineveitalbe and Im not a prepper type but I did have some medical knowledge in how viruses spread so that helped. I can remember mentioning to people I worked with to get masks and they thought I was mad.

Thingymebob

Yes: surgical

khalessi wrote: »

Watching the way it spread in China I thought it was obvious what would happen and when the first cases appeared outside of China I knew it was ineveitalbe and Im not a prepper type but I did have some medical knowledge in how viruses spread so that helped. I can remember mentioning to people I worked with to get masks and they thought I was mad.

at the beginning of February I thought we might get a few cases, and maybe one or two deaths, just recalling SARS etc. I did think I was being silly buying PPE, but in my work environment I come across a lot of international visitors including Chinese. I remember having a conversation with the ladies in my office about sanpro in mid Feb and how the materials used in manufacturing sanpro are also used in some masks (‘melt blown material’), which is why some were struggling to get our preferred brands.

Wibbs

Yes: other

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I think the lockdown in Wuhan was the canary in the coalmine. I stand by my assesment that western leadership on this whole affair has been woeful.

It's been slow to react alright. For a number of reasons. The WHO were about as much use as tits on a bull from early on, taking a softly softly approach, avoiding suggestions of pandemic and suggestions of travel and other restrictions, even though they'd been on the ground in Wuhan and saw the lockdowns there. Local health authorities like the HSE took their lead from the WHO. Hell, they still are with regard to the utility of masks, even though when the WHO teams showed up in Wuhan about the first thing the locals said to them was "why the hell aren't you wearing masks FFS"(translation from Mandarin). If the WHO came out tomorrow and advised wearing a condom on your nose and a feather in your bum was protective the HSE would be repeating it in their daily reports. Watch how quickly they pull an about face over masks when the missive comes as it surely will.

Then we have historical and cultural differences. The Far East has dealt with other outbreaks in that neck of the woods for years. SARS and the various flu strains, so had local expertise in authority and even among the general populace as far as epidemic hygiene is concerned. Then you have the cultures themselves. Much more community based, not as individualistic, more likely to follow authority, more compliant to instruction. In many ways the opposite to American culture.

Ireland has done OK so far, but the government and HSE were slow enough to react. It was only a final hours thing to stop the Patrick's day parades, they were slow on pubs and cafes too and zero checks on returning or incoming flights from known hotspots and obviously potential hotspots like Cheltenham. We're doing OK so far as much because of our population density and habitation type as anything else. If we lived in shared dwellings as a culture our numbers would be much much higher.

2u2me wrote: »

Markets were already sliding in late January.

Markets slide all the time, for all sorts of reasons. They also climb, again for all sorts of reasons. Linking the market to a premonition of pandemic is a fools errant and again only seem prescient in hindsight. For a start they rallied in February.

cryptocurrency

Wibbs wrote: »

It's been slow to react alright. For a number of reasons. The WHO were about as much use as tits on a bull from early on, taking a softly softly approach, avoiding suggestions of pandemic and suggestions of travel and other restrictions, even though they'd been on the ground in Wuhan and saw the lockdowns there. Local health authorities like the HSE took their lead from the WHO. Hell, they still are with regard to the utility of masks, even though when the WHO teams showed up in Wuhan about the first thing the locals said to them was "why the hell aren't you wearing masks FFS"(translation from Mandarin). If the WHO came out tomorrow and advised wearing a condom on your nose and a feather in your bum was protective the HSE would be repeating it in their daily reports. Watch how quickly they pull an about face over masks when the missive comes as it surely will.

Then we have historical and cultural differences. The Far East has dealt with other outbreaks in that neck of the woods for years. SARS and the various flu strains, so had local expertise in authority and even among the general populace as far as epidemic hygiene is concerned. Then you have the cultures themselves. Much more community based, not as individualistic, more likely to follow authority, more compliant to instruction. In many ways the opposite to American culture.

Ireland has done OK so far, but the government and HSE were slow enough to react. It was only a final hours thing to stop the Patrick's day parades, they were slow on pubs and cafes too and zero checks on returning or incoming flights from known hotspots and obviously potential hotspots like Cheltenham. We're doing OK so far as much because of our population density and habitation type as anything else. If we lived in shared dwellings as a culture our numbers would be much much higher.

Markets slide all the time, for all sorts of reasons. They also climb, again for all sorts of reasons. Linking the market to a premonition of pandemic is a fools errant and again only seem prescient in hindsight. For a start they rallied in February.

I think blaming WHO is the main plan for a get out of jail card for the western governments

Away With The Fairies

Yes: valved

Mr.S wrote: »

So am I right in saying if you are going to the shops etc, fabric masks are suitable and you don't need to worry about sourcing medical grade masks?

If so - any one with a link to a store?! I don't trust myself with DIY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j8aYEBtUQ9E

Hardly any sewing or DIY in this.

YFlyer

Sunday Business Post are saying 2/5 of the PPE that arrived last week from China are not fit for purpose.

Wibbs

Yes: other

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I think blaming WHO is the main plan for a get out of jail card for the western governments

Oh sure CC, but by god the WHO made it so very easy for them to do so with their faffing about.

Snake Plisken

Back on the topic of masks has anyone bought from Ali Express sellers with reasonable fast shipping and arrival?

Thingymebob

Yes: surgical

Mr.S wrote: »

So am I right in saying if you are going to the shops etc, fabric masks are suitable and you don't need to worry about sourcing medical grade masks?

If so - any one with a link to a store?! I don't trust myself with DIY

Some very basic research talked about micro fibre cloths made of polypropylene (not the polyester ones) being able to screen out 93% of particles. So if you could get yourself one large enough for your face (possibly marketed as a ‘travel towel’ to backpackers) you could tie it around.
The same research looked at hydro knit fabric towels often used in the automotive industry but the brands they tested are not available in Ireland.

https://www.businessinsider.com/homemade-mask-using-hydro-knit-shop-towel-filters-better-2020-4?r=US&IR=T

I’m not a scientist so it could be someone blowing wind up an arse but hey...

Thingymebob

Yes: surgical

YFlyer wrote: »

Sunday Business Post are saying 2/5 of the PPE that arrived last week from China are not fit for purpose.

I heard that earlier in the week too.

cryptocurrency

YFlyer wrote: »

Sunday Business Post are saying 2/5 of the PPE that arrived last week from China are not fit for purpose.

Don't buy it then. China have ramped up production of all equipment 20 fold as only they can to supply the world in this crisis. When you ramp up at that level you might get bad batches.

Spanish foreign minister is on record as saying this is a tiny amount and it was understandable in the current output demands expected in China. She said China is replacing instandly without cost.

I hear the batch in the Czech republic was because they went cheap and bought from unlicensed suppliers not on the offical China list. I think Spain and Holland the same kinda thing happened.

I think the journalist Lun Xin (not sure of the spelling) may have a point when she said on a viral video in China is that if you have nothing good to say "take it or leave it, make it yourself, China doesn't need your insults". We might be seeing a hardening of the Chinese opinion on this.

Can you imagine trying to get the fat masses of the likes of Rochdale to go from zero to hero and produce a meaningful amount of PPE and listen to their demands on pay.

YFlyer

Thingymebob wrote: »

I heard that earlier in the week too.

It was an audit carried out by the HSE.

Fleetwoodmac

Thingymebob wrote: »

I just checked our emails to see when we started planning. We placed mask orders on February 1st, along with hand sanitizers and gloves. We brought our chest freezer on 5th, and topped up our panadol stash over the next two weeks. I still felt stupid in mid February, thinking I was wasting money splurging on PPE and a freezer, but now I’m glad. I have mild asthma, two autoimmune conditions and am immunosuppressed. If I get it, I’ll potentially suffer badly.

Same here, was watching price of n95 masks rise daily on Amazon etc in January. We ordered masks early february, had food, gloves, sanitizer etc stocked up by mid February. Everyone around us rising us for doing same. Cant understand why the hse took so long to begin ordering... logic would show that just production and transport alone, especially when ordering from China would cause further delays. The lack of respect shown to healthcare workers in this regard is appalling.

cryptocurrency

Mr.S wrote: »

The issue isn't the quality in this case.

What is it then? Chinese medical staff look an awful lot better prepared on the hospital floors then the PPE the NHS/HSE are looking for.

NHS nurses are not impressed with the standard latex glove, surgical mask and a plastic disposable apron.