Masks

i_surge

GT89 wrote: »

Exactly now we should be allowed choose whether to wear a mask or not

Yeah work away, have fun.

People mightn't want you in their shop but we all make our choices.

Loafing Oaf

No: I don't care enough

i_surge wrote: »

Hmmmm What do you think yourself?

Just to save GT the bother of replying:

i_surge

washman3 wrote: »

Is 'professor' Luke O'Neill your favourite expert by any chance....???

You show me yours and I will show you mine

John O.Groats

Yes: surgical

GT89 wrote: »

Answer me this question? If covid is transmitted through coughing, sneezing and even speaking why are places pushing cashless payments? Please think about it

I would answer that it`s to reduce the risk of transmitting the virus by not handling potentially infected notes and coins but no doubt Mulder and Scully and yourself have diferent reasons.

patnor1011

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

i_surge wrote: »

Ah sure it is great fun, we can all just decide on our favourite experts and our favourite facts.

Isnt it exactly what we all do? Like always?

i_surge

John O.Groats wrote: »

I would answer that it`s to reduce the risk of transmitting the virus by not handling potentially infected notes and coins but no doubt Mulder and Scully and yourself have diferent reasons.

But but but John it is only transmitted through the air.

i_surge

patnor1011 wrote: »

Isnt it exactly what we all do? Like always?

I'm my own expert, do the research from all angles, read the studies, get the consensus, fact check, repeat and then work from basic principles.

I keep an eye out for new information and love to find where I am wrong so I can update those principles.

saneman

Yes: surgical

GT89 wrote: »

Answer me this question? If covid is transmitted through coughing, sneezing and even speaking why are places pushing cashless payments? Please think about it

Oh i'm thinking about.. i don't think i could give you my true answer tho as i'd prefer not to be threadbanned.

How about this one:

If places are pushing through cashless payments (been around for quite a few years now, mind) why do people not want to wear masks?

Equally baffling enough?

Ha Long Bay

GT89 wrote: »

I listen to people who I feel make sense and Delores Cahill is one of those for me

Hopefully after reading the below you might reconsider if you are listening to the correct person.



https://collegetribune.ie/ucd-doctor-makes-numerous-false-claims-about-covid-19/


"Cahill also claims that wearing face masks can lead to hypoxia which weakens the immune response. In other words, she is saying that the decreased amount of oxygen you inhale makes you less able to fight off the virus. Again, this has been thoroughly debunked. The use of masks does not result in hypoxia in healthy people, nor does it weaken the immune response. It is recommended that masks are not used on children under 2 with respiratory problems, but that is it. "



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ucd-professor-asked-to-resign-from-eu-committee-over-covid-19-claims-1.4277698


"Ms Cahill also supported the use of hydroxychloroquine to treat Covid-19, one that has been supported, too, by US president Donald Trump. The drug, she said, is “safe and effective” in treating the disease."

patnor1011

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

i_surge wrote: »

I'm my own expert, do the research from all angles, read the studies, get the consensus, fact check, repeat and then work from basic principles.

I keep an eye out for new information and love to find where I am wrong so I can update those principles.

Updating principles is very tricky and hard. Sometimes you shuld stick to them or trust your gut.
Law of selfpreservation says you should question those who claim that they have only your best interests at their heart.

i_surge

patnor1011 wrote: »

Updating principles is very tricky and hard. Sometimes you shuld stick to them or trust your gut.
Law of selfpreservation says you should question those who claim that they have only your best interests at their heart.

If also says you should take precaution against a poorly understood existential threat.

I do question them, hence why I am my own expert.

Ha Long Bay

patnor1011 wrote: »

Updating principles is very tricky and hard. Sometimes you shuld stick to them or trust your gut.
Law of selfpreservation says you should question those who claim that they have only your best interests at their heart.

I tried that here by responding to your post about the Russian vaccine but didn't get much a reply.

3wayswitch

Yes: surgical

washman3 wrote: »

680 people less have died in Ireland so far in 2020 than died in the same period in 2019.
Any explanation for this.?

I think you might have misinterpreted that figure wrong.

I believe what you might be referring to is that the number of excess deaths for the year so far is less than the reported COVID-19-related deaths over the same period. 1,709 people had died from Covid 19 by July, but there were only about 1,100 to 1,200 more deaths than we would have expected based on historical patterns.

I presume the cause of this discrepancy is from elderly / terminally sick people who died from Covid 19, but still would have passed away from other causes had they not caught it.

i_surge

3wayswitch wrote: »

I think you might have misinterpreted that figure wrong.

I believe what you might be referring to is that the number of excess deaths for the year so far is less than the reported COVID-19-related deaths over the same period. 1,709 people had died from Covid 19 by July, but there were only about 1,100 to 1,200 more deaths than we would have expected based on historical patterns.

I presume the cause of this discrepancy is from elderly / terminally sick people who died from Covid 19, but still would have passed away from other causes had they not caught it.

Multifactorial problem

It is known that deaths go down during recessions/depressions and this was the same. Fewer traffic and work accidents and so on.

So there are two sides to that see-saw.

GT89

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

saneman wrote: »

Oh i'm thinking about.. i don't think i could give you my true answer tho as i'd prefer not to be threadbanned.

How about this one:

If places are pushing through cashless payments (been around for quite a few years now, mind) why do people not want to wear masks?

Equally baffling enough?

I'm not against cashless payments as an addtional convenient option for people but not as a replacement for cash. Why are places using covid 1984 as a guise to encourage people to use contactless payments and in some cases point blank refusing cash.

i_surge

GT89 wrote: »

I'm not against cashless payments as an addtional convenient option for people but not as a replacement for cash. Why are places using covid 1984 as a guise to encourage people to use contactless payments and in some cases point blank refusing cash.

You know why.

patnor1011

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

john4321 wrote: »

I tried that here by responding to your post about the Russian vaccine but didn't get much a reply.

You did. In the last part of what you quoted.
To put it another way - corona viruses vaccines are pretty much pointless. Antibodies do not tend to be useful for any meaningful time. Focusing on treatment is what will serve us much better.

John O.Groats

Yes: surgical

GT89 wrote: »

I'm not against cashless payments as an addtional convenient option for people but not as a replacement for cash. Why are places using covid 1984 as a guise to encourage people to use contactless payments and in some cases point blank refusing cash.

I already gave you my answer but we are still waiting for yours.

Ha Long Bay

patnor1011 wrote: »

You did. In the last part of what you quoted.
To put it another way - corona viruses vaccines are pretty much pointless. Antibodies do not tend to be useful for any meaningful time. Focusing on treatment is what will serve us much better.

Well to be fair I made no real comment at all. I just pointed out the Russian vaccine you praised is what appears to me only going into phase 3 trials tomorrow.


"The Oxford vaccine entered phase 3 trials in July.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20...an-trials.aspx"


How you took from that:

"In the last part of what you quoted.
To put it another way - corona viruses vaccines are pretty much pointless. Antibodies do not tend to be useful for any meaningful time."

There is twisting words and just clearly making up lies.

Strumms

No: other

GT89 wrote: »

Answer me this question? If covid is transmitted through coughing, sneezing and even speaking why are places pushing cashless payments? Please think about it

Cashless means the staff member doesn’t need to touch or interact with cash, cash can carry the virus. Ring up total, you put in your card, pin enter, transaction complete... less talking, jabbering too. Can have an electronic “please enter your pin” as I’ve witnessed.

GT89

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

John O.Groats wrote: »

I would answer that it`s to reduce the risk of transmitting the virus by not handling potentially infected notes and coins but no doubt Mulder and Scully and yourself have diferent reasons.

But the disease is not transmitted through surfaces. It's transmitted through soughing and sneesing according to most pro maskers

i_surge

GT89 wrote: »

But the disease is not transmitted through money

You are right, it is inside the money, watching you.

John O.Groats

Yes: surgical

GT89 wrote: »

But the disease is not transmitted through money

Says who?

i_surge

John O.Groats wrote: »

Says who?

Did you not read the latest missive from Professor Cahill?

John O.Groats

Yes: surgical

i_surge wrote: »

Did you not read the latest missive from Professor Cahill?

No nor do I intend to.

GT89

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Strumms wrote: »

Cashless means the staff member doesn’t need to touch or interact with cash, cash can carry the virus. Ring up total, you put in your card, pin enter, transaction complete... less talking, jabbering too. Can have an electronic “please enter your pin” as I’ve witnessed.

The real reason most shops are doing it is to reduce cash handling costs but use covid 1984 as a convenient excuse as card payments do not require floats, staff to count the days takings, safes to store them in and G4S vans to come and collect. Why can't they just be open and honest.

Also shops can install a system where staff don't physically handle cash just put money in a slot and it spits out your change my local Circle K petrol station has it.

i_surge

John O.Groats wrote: »

No nor do I intend to.

Ah John, full of fun facts and new ways to be safe.

You can snort the bleach if you happen to have interacted with someone wearing a mask. We know they only make your more likely to infect yourself.

Also you know you can infect yourself now, auto covid 1984 they are calling it, it is a new strain of it but the most dominant. Best protection is internet trolling.

i_surge

GT89 wrote: »

The real reason most shops are doing it is to reduce cash handling costs but use covid 1984 as a convenient excuse as card payments do not require floats, staff to count the days takings, safes to store them in and G4S vans to come and collect. Why can't they just be open and honest.

They keep the safes closed because some people aren't honest enough. Such a shame.

Ha Long Bay

i_surge wrote: »

Ah John, full of fun facts and new ways to be safe.

You can snort the bleach if you happen to have interacted with someone wearing a mask. We know they only make your more likely to infect yourself.

Also you know you can infect yourself now, auto covid 1984 they are calling it, it is a new strain of it but the most dominant. Best protection is internet trolling.

Just noticed the 1984 connection as I got a similar reply last night from another poster when I questioned the remark that we live in a police state.

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Read 1984

patnor1011

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

john4321 wrote: »

Well to be fair I made no real comment at all. I just pointed out the Russian vaccine you praised is what appears to me only going into phase 3 trials tomorrow.


"The Oxford vaccine entered phase 3 trials in July.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20...an-trials.aspx"


How you took from that:

"In the last part of what you quoted.
To put it another way - corona viruses vaccines are pretty much pointless. Antibodies do not tend to be useful for any meaningful time."

How about we stop and take a breath here? Let us go back and read again what we said?

I did not react on your post as I did not want to keep discussing vaccines in masks thread as I said at the end of my post.
You were looking for answer to your post comparing some vaccines and when I said that it is "In the last part of what you quoted" I simply meant my post which you quoted - to which you originally reacted which was:
"There will be vaccine, quite a few of them actually due to huge demand for it. Effectiveness will vary as it is the case with most of modern vaccines but I would not put my faith in this direction too much. Corona viruses vaccines are complicated to start with and viruses are mutating as they go and if flu vaccines are any indication - it is a hit and miss, with more of a miss mostly.
Since disease is mostly a mild one if symptoms even develop I would focus more on the looking for a treatment."

So the answer to your comparison is that I think treatment is a way to go and not trying to figure out which vaccine may be better.

john4321 wrote: »

There is twisting words and just clearly making up lies.

What twisting words? What lies?

Perhaps this is why I did not react to your post. People see Russia and stop reading but look for a fight.

Ha Long Bay

patnor1011 wrote: »

How about we stop and take a breath here? Let us go back and read again what we said?

I did not react on your post as I did not want to keep discussing vaccines in masks thread as I said at the end of my post.
You were looking for answer to your post comparing some vaccines and when I said that it is "In the last part of what you quoted" I simply meant my post which you quoted - to which you originally reacted which was:
"There will be vaccine, quite a few of them actually due to huge demand for it. Effectiveness will vary as it is the case with most of modern vaccines but I would not put my faith in this direction too much. Corona viruses vaccines are complicated to start with and viruses are mutating as they go and if flu vaccines are any indication - it is a hit and miss, with more of a miss mostly.
Since disease is mostly a mild one if symptoms even develop I would focus more on the looking for a treatment."

So the answer to your comparison is that I think treatment is a way to go and not trying to figure out which one may be better.



What twisting words? What lies?

Perhaps this is why I did not react to your post. People see Russia and stop reading but look for a fight.

This is fairly straightforward, your original post started with:


"There is a vaccine out there but it was dismissed as "rushed, not tested, not reliable" just to name a few characteristics - with the most important - that it is not good because it is Russian."


I simply replied with the status of the Russian vaccine which has only has around 200 trials so far and hopefully going to phase 3 mass trials of 40000 today providing links to back that up.

I made no claims. I didn't attack your original post I just replied with facts.

Also on your last piece if Russia produced a proven and safe vaccine I would be one of the first in line to take it.

The virus and cure\treatments\prevention are not political but some people for whatever reason think it is.

We are all on the same page here, everyone wants this to go back to normal tomorrow but it's important to question news.

Seanergy

Yes: valved

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Ridiculous. A man on his own working on a car in his driveway alone wearing a mask.

Jesus wept.

Far from it, the fact that you are interacting with it and discussing it displays how effective it is an advertisement.

If you weren't so rudely sarcastic I would have continued the conversation you were warming up to have.

Talk to the mask cause the face ain't listening.

3xh

ShineOn7 wrote: »

re: the protests in Dublin yesterday


https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/266173494/south-korea-warns-its-on-brink-of-nationwide-pandemic

And yet we were told of no particular increase in numbers around the world after the BLM protests held just about everywhere. Strange, no?

There was an obvious higher wear rate of masks at the South Korean event than the BLM protests.

Edit to add; I did quote all of your post but only the Dublin anti-mask event got quoted.

CertifiedSimp

Why are people so worried about cash when whoever is in a shop is handling your product anyways?

If I go to a chipper they grab the top of the bag and then I grab it.

Same in a supermarket, they touch every single product.

So guy ahead of me takes things out of his trolley, leaves them on the belt, cashier touches the same product. Then person ahead of me touches it again.

Then I put my products on and then cashier touches the product and then I touch them again

weldoninhio

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

John O.Groats wrote: »

I would answer that it`s to reduce the risk of transmitting the virus by not handling potentially infected notes and coins but no doubt Mulder and Scully and yourself have diferent reasons.

If handling stuff transmits it so contagiously that we can’t use cash, how come if I’ve a trolley load of stuff. I touch it to put it on the belt, the cashier touches it to scan it and I pack it. Why haven’t we all been pushed to self scan?? Bit of a contradiction there. I can’t touch your cash, it might be infected, but I’ll touch every single piece of shopping you’ve bought.

weldoninhio

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

i_surge wrote: »

Multifactorial problem

It is known that deaths go down during recessions/depressions and this was the same. Fewer traffic and work accidents and so on.

So there are two sides to that see-saw.

17% increase in fatal crashes and 9% increase in road deaths in 2020. Fecking facts!!

46 workplace deaths in 2019. So that doesn’t make up the shortfall.

xhomelezz

Yes: valved

Amazing how many people can overthink one simple measure. Can't wait to see who's gonna start Washing hands thread and throw in all kind of conspiracy theories and philosophical questions around that simple task

odyssey06

xhomelezz wrote: »

Amazing how many people can overthink one simple measure. Can't wait to see who's gonna start Washing hands thread and throw in all kind of conspiracy theories and philosophical questions around that simple task

All the arguments raised against masks have been shot to bits.
Now they are trying some sort of flanking move to raise a new set of questions to challenge the experts about cash and handling surfaces...
Remember the arguments against masks started out with surfaces being so high risk masks made things more dangerous.
Now the narrative shifts to there being no risk to touching things.
Which makes one wonder how the virus is supposed to spread it all...

Whereas in reality, you can get infected by touching surfaces and then touching a mucous membrane - mouth, nose, eyes etc.
But this is more difficult way to get infected than just breathing in droplets.
You can sanitise your hands, sanitise objects, discipline yourself not to touch area vulnerable to infection with contaminated hands.

You can't sanitise your lungs after you have inhaled infected droplets.
That's where masks and ventilation and distancing come in to prevent you from inhaling droplets.

Dravokivich

GT89 wrote: »

Tbh if there is a vaccine within the next year or so I will be highly suspect. Vaccines take a long time to develop. It will make me think that this came from a lab and released as a targeted bio weapon and the vaccine is to be realeased as part of a problem reaction solution.

Problem= Covid 1984
Reaction= lockdowns, masks, social distancing, fear, tensions and unrest
Solution= Mass vacination, cashless society and surveillance

Thats not what 1984 was about at all.

ginoginelli

Yes: surgical

I'm seeing a lot of people wearing a different type of visor. These ones barely go down to the mouth, so if the wearer raises his chin slightly basically the whole face is exposed.

Why the f#$% are the goverment even allowing these things? They offer little to none protection and give a false sense of security.

We are so behind in this country on covid preventive measures its embarrassing. Embarrassing and dangerous.

bush

No: other

ginoginelli wrote: »

I'm seeing a lot of people wearing a different type of visor. These ones barely go down to the mouth, so if the wearer raises his chin slightly basically the whole face is exposed.

Why the f#$% are the goverment even allowing these things? They offer little to none protection and give a false sense of security.

We are so behind in this country on covid preventive measures its embarrassing. Embarrassing and dangerous.

I've seen someone wear one of those it looks like they aren't wearing anything from a distance. How are they held in place? It just goes to show people will wear any old ****e to abide the rule.

3wayswitch

Yes: surgical

weldoninhio wrote: »

If handling stuff transmits it so contagiously that we can’t use cash, how come if I’ve a trolley load of stuff. I touch it to put it on the belt, the cashier touches it to scan it and I pack it. Why haven’t we all been pushed to self scan?? Bit of a contradiction there. I can’t touch your cash, it might be infected, but I’ll touch every single piece of shopping you’ve bought.

When you touch an item and put it in your trolley, you only touch it for a brief period of time before you put in into your trolley and then the cashier only touches it for a few seconds while scanning it. Presumably you have also sanitized your hands while going into the store which should make it safer for both of you to touch your items. The risk here is minimal.

With cash however there are a lot of unknowns. Has the person been holding their coins in the hands for the past 30 mins before coming into the store? Has the person been storing their cash somewhere where they should like their bra where it might get exposed to sweat? (yes I have seen this happen in person). One contaminated coin in a cash register could contaminate other coins which then get handed out to multiple people. While I wouldn't consider money to be a high risk source of infection, it's easy to see why it would be a higher risk than the items in your shopping trolley.

If a single life could be saved by asking people to try using their credit cards instead of cash, then I think it's worth it.

robinph

No: I don't care enough

bush wrote: »

I've seen someone wear one of those it looks like they aren't wearing anything from a distance. How are they held in place? It just goes to show people will wear any old ****e to abide the rule.

The visors are not great, but you can't accuse anyone wearing them of not doing their part. They are hardly wearing a visor for the good looks. Maybe a bit of education about wearing them a better, or why they can't wear a mask, but they are definitely not doing it for political reasons or because they don't care about the lives of others.

robinph

No: I don't care enough

3wayswitch wrote: »

When you touch an item and put it in your trolley, you only touch it for a brief period of time before you put in into your trolley and then the cashier only touches it for a few seconds while scanning it. Presumably you have also sanitized your hands while going into the store which should make it safer for both of you to touch your items. The risk here is minimal.

With cash however there are a lot of unknowns. Has the person been holding their coins in the hands for the past 30 mins before coming into the store? Has the person been storing their cash somewhere where they should like their bra where it might get exposed to sweat? (yes I have seen this happen in person). One contaminated coin in a cash register could contaminate other coins which then get handed out to multiple people. While I wouldn't consider money to be a high risk source of infection, it's easy to see why it would be a higher risk than the items in your shopping trolley.

If a single life could be saved by asking people to try using their credit cards instead of cash, then I think it's worth it.

Sweat isn't a vector for transmission so doesn't really matter, other than general ickyness factor.

But the lack of cash being used is a potential big problem as it excludes a lot of people from being able to do things if money becomes entirely virtual and every transaction has to be done electronically with a bank as the middle man every time.

bush

No: other

You can use cash if you want

robinph

No: I don't care enough

GT89 wrote: »

Tbh if there is a vaccine within the next year or so I will be highly suspect. Vaccines take a long time to develop. It will make me think that this came from a lab and released as a targeted bio weapon and the vaccine is to be realeased as part of a problem reaction solution.

Problem= Covid 1984
Reaction= lockdowns, masks, social distancing, fear, tensions and unrest
Solution= Mass vacination, cashless society and surveillance

They don't take a long time to develop, they take a long time to test.

Here is where different vaccines are up to in their testing process:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2020/aug/24/covid-vaccine-tracker-when-will-we-have-a-coronavirus-vaccine

weldoninhio

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

3wayswitch wrote: »

When you touch an item and put it in your trolley, you only touch it for a brief period of time before you put in into your trolley and then the cashier only touches it for a few seconds while scanning it. Presumably you have also sanitized your hands while going into the store which should make it safer for both of you to touch your items. The risk here is minimal.

With cash however there are a lot of unknowns. Has the person been holding their coins in the hands for the past 30 mins before coming into the store? Has the person been storing their cash somewhere where they should like their bra where it might get exposed to sweat? (yes I have seen this happen in person). One contaminated coin in a cash register could contaminate other coins which then get handed out to multiple people. While I wouldn't consider money to be a high risk source of infection, it's easy to see why it would be a higher risk than the items in your shopping trolley.

If a single life could be saved by asking people to try using their credit cards instead of cash, then I think it's worth it.

So you can sweat Covid now?? That’s a new one. Should we not ban exercise??

Tork

Yes: to protect others

Ooh I bet you loved it when this came up. We all know covid isn't spread by sweat and doesn't leak through the skin.

Did you or any of the other anti-maskers here go to the protest at the weekend? If not, why not? Looks like it was right up your street.

weldoninhio

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Tork wrote: »

Ooh I bet you loved it when this came up. We all know covid isn't spread by sweat and doesn't leak through the skin.

Did you or any of the other anti-maskers here go to the protest at the weekend? If not, why not? Looks like it was right up your street.

Didn’t make it in, already had plans. Some friends were at it, said it was a great atmosphere. My GP made an excellent speech, watched it on FB.

Tork

Yes: to protect others

You can always go to the next one