Masks

SeaBreezes

No: I don't care enough

GT89 wrote: »

Simple continue to wear your mask and ignore what others are saying if you don't agree with what they are saying. I don't have a problem with other people choosing to wear masks I just don't want to wear myself. We should be allowed make choices.

But you DO have a choice, shop online, stay home.
Sorted.

GT89

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

SeaBreezes wrote: »

But you DO have a choice, shop online, stay home.
Sorted.

Or simply not wear a mask and go to shop no one has the balls to say anything

odyssey06

Scottish secondary schools considering mandatory masks in some school settings...
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-53888479

Jim_Hodge

Yes: homemade

GT89 wrote: »

Or simply not wear a mask and go to shop no one has the balls to say anything

They have. Many shops here are insisting on masks and refusing entry without them. But you must know others, as you must have been in plenty of shops at this stage.

arccosh

GT89 wrote: »

The same youtube that removed Dave Cullen's interview with Delores Cahill

Just looked up Dolores Cahill... she seems to have done some outstanding research during her career, but I get the feeling that viruses and respitory diseases she isn't exactly an expert in?

GT89

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

They have. Many shops here are insisting on masks and refusing entry without them. But you must know others, as you must have been in plenty of shops at this stage.

I usually wear one myself so I don't get into arguments with other customers. The other week I actually forgot and nipped into lidl to get something I needed and no one batted an eyelid. Some oul wan gave me a dirty look in the queue for the till but none of the few staff in the place seemed to careless.

Saw one or two not wearing them in Dunnes and Tesco and they seemed to have had no questions were asked. Shops aren't going to refuse your money unless some are stupid enough.

Ash.J.Williams

Yes: homemade

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

But in June a number of cherry picked observation studies apparently proved that masks reduce the daily growth rate of reported infections by around 40%.

https://www.iza.org/publications/dp/13319/face-masks-considerably-reduce-covid-19-cases-in-germany-a-synthetic-control-method-approach

When you look at the graphs of countries that introduced mandatory masks there is absolutely no impact on the falling trends.

In fact its actually the opposite now, detected cases are going up in the majority of regions where masks are mandatory.

I'm not really interested in arguing about masks, I'm happy to wear one if it allows business to open and life to get back towards normal, but the science is so weak on them and looking at real world data the impact of them has been negligible.

I ignore that crap

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Can anyone tell me why the Gardai are not wearing masks. I haven't seen one wearing a mask yet.

mirrorwall14

Yes: valved

I’m high risk and asthmatic. I’ve been wearing cloth masks and being careful up until now. However I’m back to Secondary school next week and only visors are going to be compulsory for everyone, not masks. I have a valved mask which is far easier for me to breath through (though will have to wear a visor too). I know the valved masks aren’t good for stopping the spread but I think they are good for me? considering visors are next to useless anyway do you think it would be ok for me to go with valved? It would be far easier to breathe (and talk teach)

Xtrail14

Local shop getting very relaxed on mask wearing, as much as I hate wearing one I still continue to wear one.

GT89

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

3wayswitch wrote: »

1). There are vaccines available for the flu. This gives people the ability to protect themselves and not require you to protect them.

2). As of December 2019 there were 22 flu related deaths in Ireland reported for the 2019/2020 flu season. Covid 19 has killed 1,777 people so far this year.

I'd imagine there was more flu deaths the year of that Aussie flu maybe last flu season was a mild. Was everyone who died tested for the flu there could have been much more than 22 deaths if people who died from other from other illnesses were tested for the flu as that's most likely the number of people who died of the flu not with the flu.

Or maybe the numbers who have died of covid 1984 would be similar to the numbers dying of flu if you knkw we stopped counting those who died with covid 1984 and only counted those who died of it.

washman3

robinph wrote: »

Never heard of him, but guessing you don't mean a Wimbledon footballer which is all Google is giving me?

What did they say then?

i'm amazed you don't know of him or maybe you've chosen to ignore him since he 'let the cat out of the bag' on the Late Late Show regarding mask wearing.
He is/was the poster boy for RTE for all things covid related.
Check out the you tube clip, Luke o'Neill Facemasks Late Late Show.

washman3

saneman wrote: »

I've been working in the PPE industry for 15 years... you're wrong

Give us your explanation so.!!
And while you're at it explain why there wasn't sufficient and proper PPE for our Frontline staff when they needed it most, and also why we bought plane loads of duds from China while they themselves were buying their own from Korea.
15 years PPE industry experience means you should have no problem explaining this.

washman3

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Can anyone tell me why the Gardai are not wearing masks. I haven't seen one wearing a mask yet.

The virus is so clever it can tell the difference between a Garda and a pleb..;)

Quantum Erasure

washman3 wrote: »

The virus is so clever it can tell the difference between a Garda and a pleb..;)

So can seatbelts...:rolleyes:

Tokyo

GT89 wrote: »

Or maybe the numbers who have died of covid 1984 would be similar to the numbers dying of flu if you knkw we stopped counting those who died with covid 1984 and only counted those who died of it.

Mod: We have a Conspiracy theories forum if you wish to continue posting about 'COVID 1984'. Here is not the place for it.

punisher5112

Yes: surgical

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Can anyone tell me why the Gardai are not wearing masks. I haven't seen one wearing a mask yet.

I see most wearing them in confined spaces and put them on when out if close to others. Walking down the street is madness though.....

ExMachina1000

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

washman3 wrote: »

The virus is so clever it can tell the difference between a Garda and a pleb..;)

Some are both.

weldoninhio

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Can anyone tell me why the Gardai are not wearing masks. I haven't seen one wearing a mask yet.

I believe it’s mandatory for them to have a €9 meal pre-shift which covers them.

pjohnson

weldoninhio wrote: »

I believe it’s mandatory for them to have a €9 meal pre-shift which covers them.

Christ do people actually still not understand the meal thing :pac:

I assume your just playing up welly but god help us if some still cant fathom it.

weldoninhio

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

pjohnson wrote: »

Christ do people actually still not understand the meal thing :pac:

I assume your just playing up welly but god help us if some still cant fathom it.

Jesus. Obvious joke is obvious I would have thought.

Seanergy

Yes: valved

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I’m high risk and asthmatic. I’ve been wearing cloth masks and being careful up until now. However I’m back to Secondary school next week and only visors are going to be compulsory for everyone, not masks. I have a valved mask which is far easier for me to breath through (though will have to wear a visor too). I know the valved masks aren’t good for stopping the spread but I think they are good for me? considering visors are next to useless anyway do you think it would be ok for me to go with valved? It would be far easier to breathe (and talk teach)

Sounds like your trying to do the best you can, you'd have my blessing to proceed all things considered. Yes generally valved masks contribute to the atmosphere more than non valved but don't forget so do badly fitting masks and visors with no masks.

How one contributes to the communal air has not been discussed, many on this thread have been hopping for proper state wide education for months now.

If I was returning to secondary school as a teacher I would face the debate face on. It's going to be playing on the minds of your students and yourself so adress the elephant in the room, otherwise very little is going to be taught or absorbed.

If your going to remain consious of your contributuion why not get your classroom a hepa filter fan and a CO2 monitor. The CO2 monitor (150euro) will give you a guide for when the air in the class is not refreshing quick enough, the hepa filter will aid cleaning the air that does not get a chance to escape. Some excellent low budget DIY HEPA filter fans can be constructed for 100-200 euro(that price would include afew filters). Enough of the kids and their parents do not want their children contracting or spreading the virus so maybe everyone can chip in, get them to bring notes home from day 1. Big knock on effect with that sort of approach.

Have you tried the KN95's without the valve?

Jim_Hodge

Yes: homemade

weldoninhio wrote: »

Jesus. Obvious joke is obvious I would have thought.

That "joke" has worn very thin at this stage.

CertifiedSimp

What is the effectiveness of masks?

If 100 people in a supermarket wear masks and 100 in another supermarket don't, what is the number of cases prevented of those 100?

This type of data must be there if they made a decision based on data

odyssey06

CertifiedSimp wrote: »

What is the effectiveness of masks?
If 100 people in a supermarket wear masks and 100 in another supermarket don't, what is the number of cases prevented of those 100?
This type of data must be there if they made a decision based on data

Of course the data isn't there.
How could you gather such data without risking infecting participants?
One of the reasons to wear masks in community settings such as supermarkets and shops and buses if they we don't have traceability of who was where when and interacting with someone who does test positive.

If there's a lot of infected in the non-mask wearing cohort, that means a lot of droplets being produced and possible infections.
If there's a small number of infected mainly in the mask wearing cohort, that means a lot less droplets produced and fewer possible infections.

extra gravy

https://twitter.com/GarethOCal/status/1297486070557351936?s=19

Not sure if posted already. Message to the anti mask idiots from someone with a serious illness.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

odyssey06 wrote: »

Of course the data isn't there.
How could you gather such data without risking infecting participants?
One of the reasons to wear masks in community settings such as supermarkets and shops and buses if they we don't have traceability of who was where when and interacting with someone who does test positive.

If there's a lot of infected in the non-mask wearing cohort, that means a lot of droplets being produced and possible infections.
If there's a small number of infected mainly in the mask wearing cohort, that means a lot less droplets produced and fewer possible infections.

I read Germany were doing a test on this exact same thing last week. They put on three concerts with 1500 people attending them all. First lot had no social distancing, second lot of wore masks and third social distanced and wore masks. Probably be a few weeks before we see any of the data.

odyssey06

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I read Germany were doing a test on this exact same thing last week. They put on three concerts with 1500 people attending them all. First lot had no social distancing, second lot of wore masks and third social distanced and wore masks. Probably be a few weeks before we see any of the data.

Thanks for the heads-up, an interesting experiment to run.
But just to be clear, they didn't put any infected people into the mix. In fact all participants were tested beforehand to ensure virus free.
They are looking for secondary data.

At the gig, which featured a live performance from musician Tim Bendzko, fans were given respiratory face masks, fluorescent hand gel and electronic "contact trackers" -- small transmitters that determine the contact rates and contact distances of the individual experiment participants.
Using data from the contact trackers, scientists from The University of Halle will monitor the number "critical contacts" had by each participant during specific times and locations, while the residue left by fluorescent hand gel will identify frequently touched surfaces.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/germany-coronavirus-tim-bendzko-concert-wellness-scn-grm-intl/index.html

CertifiedSimp

odyssey06 wrote: »

Of course the data isn't there.
How could you gather such data without risking infecting participants?
One of the reasons to wear masks in community settings such as supermarkets and shops and buses if they we don't have traceability of who was where when and interacting with someone who does test positive.

If there's a lot of infected in the non-mask wearing cohort, that means a lot of droplets being produced and possible infections.
If there's a small number of infected mainly in the mask wearing cohort, that means a lot less droplets produced and fewer possible infections.

If the data isn't there how can our CMO the data wasn't there months ago but they now say to wear masks so obviously they must have data.

CertifiedSimp

extra gravy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/GarethOCal/status/1297486070557351936?s=19

Not sure if posted already. Message to the anti mask idiots from someone with a serious illness.

If the masks are as good as he says, he shouldn't care what others do so, it would be their decision like smoking or drinking

CertifiedSimp

Interesting to note the differences in support for O'Callaghans anti BLM post and anti mandatory masks march.

3k likes for the BLM post.

23k for the anti mask one.

Hypocrites.

GT89

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

That "joke" has worn very thin at this stage.

Just like covid 1984 so

Tenzor07

CertifiedSimp wrote: »

What is the effectiveness of masks?
If 100 people in a supermarket wear masks and 100 in another supermarket don't, what is the number of cases prevented of those 100?

Not exactly scientific at all but interesting none the less...


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-25/this-starbucks-in-south-korea-became-a-beacon-for-mask-wearing?

Away With The Fairies

Yes: valved

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Not exactly scientific at all but interesting none the less...


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-25/this-starbucks-in-south-korea-became-a-beacon-for-mask-wearing?

Wonder do they wear eye protection as well or are masks enough?

Seanergy

Yes: valved

CertifiedSimp wrote: »

What is the effectiveness of masks?

If 100 people in a supermarket wear masks and 100 in another supermarket don't, what is the number of cases prevented of those 100?

This type of data must be there if they made a decision based on data

As pointed out, way too many variables to carry out a study similar to the one your suggesting, just to name a few, people's fitness levels, breathing habits(mouth breathers V's nose breathers) etc.

From an Irish perspective the only data we have on the effectiveness of masks regarding COVID-19 is when all HCW's and essential workers in LTR's/nursing homes donned them.

see post #7034

odyssey06

CertifiedSimp wrote: »

If the data isn't there how can our CMO the data wasn't there months ago but they now say to wear masks so obviously they must have data.

Of course they have data but they don't have the specific data that you originally queried and I replied to.

They have data from:
* Comparative data between countries based on mask wearing
* Comparative data between US states based on mask wearing, including the same US states before and after mask policies changed
* Data from case studies where infected people (hairdressers, flight passengers) wearing surgical masks did not infect any of their close contacts
* Data from laboratory studies showing the effectiveness of masks at reducing emission of droplets
* Data from when more general mask wearing policies were rolled out in health and care settings here
* Data showing that people with covid-19 are highly infectious just before they start to show symptoms

This article summarises the data explaining why the US CDC changed their guidance on masks:
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

ShineOn7

Yes: surgical

What's everyone using to tighten up the fit of their mask?

My head is smaller than I thought

washman3

CertifiedSimp wrote: »

Interesting to note the differences in support for O'Callaghans anti BLM post and anti mandatory masks march.

3k likes for the BLM post.

23k for the anti mask one.

Hypocrites.

Wish Gareth a speedy recovery.
When he's better lets hope he finds the strength to send a message to the Clifden Cartel.

wadacrack

Yes: to protect myself and others

https://twitter.com/tinssoldier/status/1298101693247193089

odyssey06

ShineOn7 wrote: »

What's everyone using to tighten up the fit of their mask? My head is smaller than I thought

A headshrinker?

I am using the blue surgical masks and I press the metal strip around the nose. The loops are elasticated.
Haven't had that issue, actually might be a little too snug sometimes.
(Now worried I may have a big head)

odyssey06

The Starbucks story was mentioned earlier in the thread but I think it's too soon to assign it just to masks.
For example, there might be a staff specific toilet and it could be the customer toilet was the source of the infection.

This is common setup in many food establishments for general hygiene reasons, nothing to do with covid19.

wadacrack

Yes: to protect myself and others

odyssey06 wrote: »

The Starbucks story was mentioned earlier in the thread but I think it's too soon to assign it just to masks.
For example, there might be a staff specific toilet and it could be the customer toilet was the source of the infection.

This is common setup in many food establishments for general hygiene reasons, nothing to do with covid19.

Thats a pretty random assumption.Source of infection is highly likely to be where the person spent 2 hours which was inside the starbucks store not the bathroom. Masks highly likely to have helped the employee's avoid infection

weldoninhio

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

extra gravy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/GarethOCal/status/1297486070557351936?s=19

Not sure if posted already. Message to the anti mask idiots from someone with a serious illness.

Someone needs to tell him that wearing a mask doesn't protect the wearer.

Graham

weldoninhio wrote: »

Someone needs to tell him that wearing a mask doesn't protect the wearer.

All the more reason for everyone else to wear a mask.

odyssey06

wadacrack wrote: »

Thats a pretty random assumption.Source of infection is highly likely to be where the person spent 2 hours which was inside the starbucks store not the bathroom. Masks highly likely to have helped the employee's avoid infection

Well, it wasn't an assumption. It was an example of difference.
I mentioned toilet facilities as a specific example where employee and customer exposure is different.
Duration doesn't matter if they picked up the infection via contact of a surface.

I think at this stage it is an assumption to assign the results to masks without a clearer picture of what other such differences there are in exposure e.g. ventilation, staff locations, screens etc
The below article mentions the infected person was sat next to an air conditioner (not ventilated). It could be down to direction of air flow.

Also, the article doesn't say what type of masks were worn.
Most masks eg surgical type masks are primarily about blocking droplets from an infected person NOT directly protecting the wearer.

So at this stage, I wouldn't be ruling masks out but I wouldn't be ruling masks in as the reason. We need more info.

https://www.businessinsider.com/56-got-coronavirus-south-korea-starbucks-mask-wearers-did-not-2020-8?r=US&IR=T

Jim_Hodge

Yes: homemade

weldoninhio wrote: »

Someone needs to tell him that wearing a mask doesn't protect the wearer.

That's his whole point. We need to wear masks to protect others.

patnor1011

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Even kids know that something isnt right
https://twitter.com/i/status/1297209884644179970

weldoninhio

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

That's his whole point. We need to wear masks to protect others.

"I wear a mask to protect myself against idiots"

Graham

weldoninhio wrote: »

"I wear a mask to protect myself against idiots"

Makes sense, much more protection if "the idiots" also wear a mask.

I suspect that was the point of the tweet.

Graham

patnor1011 wrote: »

Even kids know that something isnt right

Proof if it were needed that we have a certain cohort acting like 2 year olds. :pac: