Masks

CalamariFritti

joeguevara wrote: »

I think you misunderstood what I said. I was replying to a point that said that little to no infections in supermarkets during lockdown when masks weren’t required. I actually stated that it is likely that little transmission in supermarkets during lockdown because strict numbers were allowed in. I said there was exponential (probably an incorrect term but when you go from 100 to 15000 in two months exponential is adequate) growth as masks weren’t required and since they are figures are low.

The poster in question was trying to state that masks have no evidence of working. If you look at my posts and in particular what they were responding to it hopefully is clear that I never said that no masks in supermarkets was the cause of huge rise of Covid cases in lockdown.

I might have misunderstood Joe. I dont know. Sorry f I did. I think I have covid fatigue by now (not the symptomatic one lol).

AUDI20

No: other

Hunky Monster wrote: »

To the idiots who keep saying "It's just a mask" and who scream "TINFOIL HAT" and every second poster on this forum have a look at what's in store for us all if you don't wake up.

Soon "It's just a mask" will become "It's just an app". The video below shows you what's ahead. If you don't know what the green, amber and red colours mean there's a second video below of how it works in China. Health passports are on the way, this is an undeniable FACT, it is written in stone.

Skip one minute in.

Good luck.

This Health Passport Ireland is a brilliant idea, sooner its rolled out the better.

joeguevara

AUDI20 wrote: »

This Health Passport Ireland is a brilliant idea, sooner its rolled out the better.

Reason why we got 5G.

pjohnson

Hunky Monster wrote: »

To the idiots who keep saying "It's just a mask" and who scream "TINFOIL HAT" and every second poster on this forum have a look at what's in store for us all if you don't wake up.

Soon "It's just a mask" will become "It's just an app". The video below shows you what's ahead. If you don't know what the green, amber and red colours mean there's a second video below of how it works in China. Health passports are on the way, this is an undeniable FACT, it is written in stone.

Skip one minute in.

Good luck.

Yep. Double down on the tinfoil. Excellent.

MrStuffins

Yes: other

Hunky Monster wrote: »

wake up.

this is an undeniable FACT

it is written in stone.

INTERDIMENSIONAL ALIENS JOE!

joeguevara

Beautiful day today.

https://youtu.be/WFyOm9Bg2aM

Ten of Swords

Hunky Monster wrote: »

have a look at what's in store for us all if you don't wake up.

You won't believe what happened next! Click here

smurfjed

Yes: surgical

Sorry but the HEALTH PASSPORT IRELAND concept is presently useless as most countries want a test conducted within 72 hours prior to arrival, plus these tests are only valid at the moment of the test.

howareyakid

Yes: to protect myself and others

I have a question about reusable cotton masks:

If in a workplace or if out and about in an environment whereby you might have to take off your mask/face-covering numerous times e.g. to eat, drink etc.; can you put back on the same mask again or do you need to get another one? To date, I've been putting my mask into a plastic bag and into my pocket and reusing it. I sanitise my hands after touching mask and try to only touch it by the ear-loops. It's recently came to my attention that this may be wrong, however, in terms of the need to use multiple plastic bags and having multiple masks/coverings so that as soon as one takes off one, it won't be used again until washed. In that case, one would need quite a few masks/face-coverings per day I guess.

I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts/advice on correct mask use.

bush

No: other

I wear masks at work. We have been given 2. Honestly if I take a drink or adjust my mask or whatever I don't wash my hands mevermind change masks. Who could be bothered to do that?

BattleCorp

Yes: surgical

bush wrote: »

I wear masks at work. We have been given 2. Honestly if I take a drink or adjust my mask or whatever I don't wash my hands mevermind change masks. Who could be bothered to do that?

People who want to wear them correctly and minimise the risk of spreading COVID-19.

bush

No: other

BattleCorp wrote: »

People who want to wear them correctly and minimise the risk of spreading COVID-19.

Do you wear a mask for 8 hours a day?

saneman

Yes: surgical

howareyakid wrote: »

I have a question about reusable cotton masks:

If in a workplace or if out and about in an environment whereby you might have to take off your mask/face-covering numerous times e.g. to eat, drink etc.; can you put back on the same mask again or do you need to get another one? To date, I've been putting my mask into a plastic bag and into my pocket and reusing it. I sanitise my hands after touching mask and try to only touch it by the ear-loops. It's recently came to my attention that this may be wrong, however, in terms of the need to use multiple plastic bags and having multiple masks/coverings so that as soon as one takes off one, it won't be used again until washed. In that case, one would need quite a few masks/face-coverings per day I guess.

I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts/advice on correct mask use.

I'd say what you're doing is fine insofar as your sanitising your hands regularly when wearing/adjusting your mask and avoid touching the fabric. It's about minimising risk, it will never be zero.

I use the same mask during the day when in similar situations to what you mention (with a spare available should it be needed). If i need to take off my mask I hang it from a belt loop using one of those cheap aluminium carabiners. I handle it using ear loops only, without the need to touch the fabric. The ones I use have a nose wire & the fit doesn't need to be adjusted, I wear glasses and haven't had any issues.

BattleCorp

Yes: surgical

bush wrote: »

Do you wear a mask for 8 hours a day?

Me personally, no. I'm working mostly from home. Other people in my company wear masks for their full shift. Some wear masks and a visor.

zerosugarbuzz

Yes: surgical

https://twitter.com/i/status/1293321739167047683

Of course back in March Luke O'Neil poo poo'd the use of face masks. I have been wearing one from the beginning but do think its less important now than it was in March, still wearing it though,

odyssey06

"The science" hasn't changed, because I don't know what that means, I find it a strange use of words.

I think the perspective changed on their use as PPE to protect an uninfected person to use as barrier to contain the viral droplets from an infected person.
And we didn't have enough PPE quality masks.
The guidance on use of masks as PPE was for situations such as a family member caring for a suspected case, or in healthcare settings where there was a high risk of being exposed to a high viral load. The concern was on contact transmission as the mask unless respirator level would not have blocked all the viral load the 'carer' was exposed to.

There is now more data available on risks of aerosol transmission versus contact transmission, and on high viral load in pre-symptomatic infectees, case studies on mask wearers v non mask wearer situations, and data from countries which adopted masks, effectiveness of cloth coverings as barriers (but not PPE).
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114417187&postcount=9193

RoYoBo

Yes: valved

bush wrote: »

I wear masks at work. We have been given 2. Honestly if I take a drink or adjust my mask or whatever I don't wash my hands mevermind change masks. Who could be bothered to do that?

Coronavirus aside, I'd be worried about cross-contamination, given your job in food preparation. I thought that frequent hand-washing was a must in those circumstances to comply with health regulations? And not touching your face, nose or mouth, with or without a mask?

I'm probably just being naive, but it's another reason for me not to eat out ...

Boggles

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

I have been wearing one from the beginning but do think its less important now than it was in March, still wearing it though,

It is more important now.

Forget March, if we were all wearing them in early February we wouldn't have had the infection rate we did.

As for people recommending against their use, it was a pretty transparent lie, probably noble at the start, but to keep it up long after supply issues were gone was silly in the extreme.

bush

No: other

RoYoBo wrote: »

Coronavirus aside, I'd be worried about cross-contamination, given your job in food preparation. I thought that frequent hand-washing was a must in those circumstances to comply with health regulations? And not touching your face, nose or mouth, with or without a mask?

I'm probably just being naive, but it's another reason for me not to eat out ...

Yes of course I wash my hands as normal but if i adjust my stupid annoying mask I'm not going to wash my hands

patnor1011

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

smurfjed wrote: »

Sorry but the HEALTH PASSPORT IRELAND concept is presently useless as most countries want a test conducted within 72 hours prior to arrival, plus these tests are only valid at the moment of the test.

It may be offered or eventually ordered as a means to track vaccination as soon as they proclaim some of them working and move to mass vaccination.

smurfjed

Yes: surgical

patnor1011 wrote: »

It may be offered or eventually ordered as a means to track vaccination as soon as they proclaim some of them working and move to mass vaccination.

Isn’t that what your travel vaccination record is for?

_Kaiser_

Boggles wrote: »

It is more important now.

Forget March, if we were all wearing them in early February we wouldn't have had the infection rate we did.

As for people recommending against their use, it was a pretty transparent lie, probably noble at the start, but to keep it up long after supply issues were gone was silly in the extreme.

Infection rates/new cases mean nothing. Outcome of cases is the important details and those are overwhelmingly positive. The risk to the majority of the population is minimal.

But if we want to focus on cases, masks didn't stop the numbers dropping between May and July, nor have they stopped them increasing since. Plus they're not used properly by many people anyway so they are at best ineffective.

"But, it's to stop others catching the virus from you". Grand.. I'm not sick, haven't been sick, live alone, and because I have a full time job from home I don't generally go out much during the week anyway. Why should I be legally forced to wear a mask that is nothing more than a placebo for most (assuming they care at all at this stage)

If you're at risk because of age or existing medical conditions or lower immunity then absolutely mask up. If you're fearful of catching the virus then work away, but forcing this measure on everyone in a scenario where almost no one is dying at this point, few need hospitalisation and even fewer need ICU care is becoming increasingly untenable as the days roll by.

sdanseo

No: I don't care enough

joeguevara wrote: »

Everything he says is correct. I never thought I’d do this as a person who advocates wearing masks, but this guy should not be putting out videos as he does more harm than good. If I was anti mask the first thing I’d point out is this guy is not a medical doctor. He uses DR but is a doctor of Philosophy from Bolton university teaching bioscience in nurse education. He has no expertise in viruses and his main role is development of multimedia resources for nurses.

The fact that his videos could be used as expertise makes it easier for others to denigrate it. This guy is basically a fraud (with decent facts).

The fact that he is a Ph.D teaching about Bioscience gives him a lot more credibility than a fraud. He might not be a medical doctor but he hasn't claimed to be, and his videos are certainly doing a hell of a lot more good than harm.

You make him sound like Mike Ross. Channeling my inner Reagan here a little, but he's no Mike Ross (and even if he was, Mike Ross did a hell of a lot of good).

odyssey06

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Infection rates/new cases mean nothing. Outcome of cases is the important details and those are overwhelmingly positive. The risk to the majority of the population is minimal.

But if we want to focus on cases, masks didn't stop the numbers dropping between May and July, nor have they stopped them increasing since. Plus they're not used properly by many people anyway so they are at best ineffective.

"But, it's to stop others catching the virus from you". Grand.. I'm not sick, haven't been sick, live alone, and because I have a full time job from home I don't generally go out much during the week anyway. Why should I be legally forced to wear a mask that is nothing more than a placebo for most (assuming they care at all at this stage)

If you're at risk because of age or existing medical conditions or lower immunity then absolutely mask up. If you're fearful of catching the virus then work away, but forcing this measure on everyone in a scenario where almost no one is dying at this point, few need hospitalisation and even fewer need ICU care is becoming increasingly untenable as the days roll by.

Masks didn't stop the numbers dropping in May?
That might make sense to you but no one else.
Precisely because we don't want to repeat the measures that were imposed in May, masks are rolled out as an alternative low impact low costs measure to reduce risk in enclosed community spaces.

You seem to understand that you are being asked to wear a mask to contain the droplets from an infected person. Then you tell the vulnerable to mask up?
Makes no sense.
There is actually some evidence that wearing surgical and above masks reduces the viral load an infected person is exposed to, meaning they are hit with a less severe dose of the virus. Is that what you mean?

To move from "some people aren't using them properly" to that makes them across the board ineffective is a leap in logic completely without substantiation.

That you 'know' you aren't infected is irrelevent and unverifiable.
It's up there with sure let's not breathalyse for drink drivers as if you have a pioneer pin you must be a teetotaller.

McGiver

No: I don't care enough

saneman wrote: »

I'd say what you're doing is fine insofar as your sanitising your hands regularly when wearing/adjusting your mask and avoid touching the fabric. It's about minimising risk, it will never be zero.

I use the same mask during the day when in similar situations to what you mention (with a spare available should it be needed). If i need to take off my mask I hang it from a belt loop using one of those cheap aluminium carabiners. I handle it using ear loops only, without the need to touch the fabric. The ones I use have a nose wire & the fit doesn't need to be adjusted, I wear glasses and haven't had any issues.

The obsession with not touching the mask in non-healthcare setting is largely irrelevant.

Yes, you shouldn't touch the mask, but Sars-cov-2 isn't cholera and we're not surgeons where touching the mask could contaminate something seriously.
If you touch your mask here and there it's not a big deal, yes, shouldn't be done, but that's the main objective of masks is still met.

Covid is almost entirely spread by aerosols from talking, breathing, sneezing and coughing. It's important to close the main route of transmission and that is your respiratory system outflow.

Sanitising hands is a good hygiene habit anyway for preventing flu and other bugs, no harm.

Seanergy

Yes: valved

Masks key to reducing Covid-19 deaths in Ireland, say US experts. IT article link.

The research predicts 2,940 deaths in Ireland by January 1st if mask-use remains at current levels. In a best-case scenario, where more than 95 per cent of people used masks, there would be 2,180 deaths, compared to the 1,777 deaths so far recorded.

The Department of Health did not respond last night to a request for comment on the latest forecasts.

odyssey06

Seanergy wrote: »

Masks key to reducing Covid-19 deaths in Ireland, say US experts. IT article link.

I saw that article linked on the main thread but even from the IT article I couldn't get an idea of how they came up with the figures.

Seanergy

Yes: valved

looking into that, One of their projections is that axpected deaths from now until January 1 can be reduced by 64% through universal mask use. Once the UMU > 95% compliance.

moonage

What is the legal situation regarding someone who is exempt from face covering "because of a physical or mental illness or a disability, or because it would cause you severe distress".

Do they have to have documentation from a doctor?

If not, do they have to have to state what their illness/disability is?

In the UK people with exemptions do not have to prove it. Is it the same here?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

moonage wrote: »

What is the legal situation regarding someone who is exempt from face covering "because of a physical or mental illness or a disability, or because it would cause you severe distress".

Do they have to have documentation from a doctor?

If not, do they have to have to state what their illness/disability is?

In the UK people with exemptions do not have to prove it. Is it the same here?

As far as I know a Gard can’t ask you what your illness is. I know in the UK it’s something like 10k in damages are awarded if the police insist on knowing your medical issues.

joeguevara

Hunky Monster wrote: »

As far as I know a Gard can’t ask you what your illness is. I know in the UK it’s something like 10k in damages are awarded if the police insist on knowing your medical issues.

If I walk up to a shop with a Labrador and a pair of sunglasses, do you think a security guard can stop me and determine if it is a guide dog. For instance for me to provide the official guide dog ID. If I don’t have this and they reasonably believe it is a guide dog, I can be refused. For me to have a guide dog, I am required to be registered blind. Now, i don’t need to say that my blindness was from xyz.

Now, why do people think that not wearing a mask is any different. So, if I arrive at entrance and no mask and I am requested to wear one, they are entitled to ask reasonable questions to determine if I fall under an exemption. If I refuse to answer or start screaming, number 1 if they have no information, they can not determine if I’m exempt. Secondly if I start screaming or trying to push past, they are entitled not to permit entry based on my behaviour.

No exemption is anything to be ashamed of.

Graham

Hunky Monster wrote: »

As far as I know a Gard can’t ask you what your illness is.

Where did you discover that from?

I wouldn't mind taking a look at the official position.

joeguevara

Graham wrote: »

Where did you discover that from?

I wouldn't mind taking a look at the official position.

There is no definitive position but, my post above is my best interpretation. Another analogy is if you are absent from work, your employer can require evidence that you were will but not of the exact illness.

This idea you can blankly refuse to provide adequate information is simply not true.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

joeguevara wrote: »

There is no definitive position but, my post above is my best interpretation. Another analogy is if you are absent from work, your employer can require evidence that you were will but not of the exact illness.

This idea you can blankly refuse to provide adequate information is simply not true.

Except if you read the legislation you can. A simple “I am exempt because a mask causes me severe distress” is enough.

The legislation on reasonable excuses includes:

- Cannot wear a face covering because of a physical or mental illness or a disability, or because it would cause you severe distress.

This is enough to get a Gard to leave you alone. Anything else you say is pure speculation.

moonage

joeguevara wrote: »

So, if I arrive at entrance and no mask and I am requested to wear one, they are entitled to ask reasonable questions to determine if I fall under an exemption.

By law is the shop/bus/train employee entitled to ask questions to determine if someone falls under an exemption?

The person stating "I am mask exempt" might suffice (legally), with no further explanation required.

With a fine of up to €2,500/up to 6 months imprisonment for non-compliance, the legal situation should be made absolutely clear.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

moonage wrote: »

By law is the shop/bus/train employee entitled to ask questions to determine if someone falls under an exemption?

To an extent. Unless you’re assuming a shopkeeper or bus driver has some sort of medical background to determine whether your exempt or not. A simple “I’m medically exempt” is definitely enough, you do not need to tell the bus driver your medical history.

End.

joeguevara

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Except if you read the legislation you can. A simple “I am exempt because a mask causes me severe distress” is enough.

The legislation on reasonable excuses includes:

- Cannot wear a face covering because of a physical or mental illness or a disability, or because it would cause you severe distress.

This is enough to get a Gard to leave you alone. Anything else you say is pure speculation.

And that is exactly what I said and reasonable. If someone started shouting I don’t have to tell you, let me in, then they can be refused.

joeguevara

Hunky Monster wrote: »

To an extent. Unless you’re assuming a shopkeeper or bus driver has some sort of medical background to determine whether your exempt or not. A simple “I’m medically exempt” is definitely enough, you do not need to tell the bus driver your medical history.

End.

Completely agree. Perhaps if it was phrased as you had above.

Has anyone had Gardai called on them.

patnor1011

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

smurfjed wrote: »

Isn’t that what your travel vaccination record is for?

Sure but if you bothered to watch their promo video you would quickly discover that they suggest this to be used everywhere you move. I do not think you would carry your travel vaccination record to your hairdresser appontment or to show it to the bus driver.

patnor1011

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Hunky Monster wrote: »

As far as I know a Gard can’t ask you what your illness is. I know in the UK it’s something like 10k in damages are awarded if the police insist on knowing your medical issues.

This. And one should wonder how stupid it must be to even suggest any fines for not wearing one. Like who would pay it when they simply can say they cant have one as it may impact their mental state. Then try to prove otherwise.
All this "mask fines" excercise is just PR stunt to show how government is working hard to fight this silent killer virus which is going to kill us all.

Graham

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Except if you read the legislation you can. A simple “I am exempt because a mask causes me severe distress” is enough.

The legislation on reasonable excuses includes:

- Cannot wear a face covering because of a physical or mental illness or a disability, or because it would cause you severe distress.

This is enough to get a Gard to leave you alone. Anything else you say is pure speculation.

There are plenty of exceptions in the law on mental/health grounds that require validation, what makes you think this one is different?

Again, a link to the relevant legislation would be good.

Unless you're just guessing of course.

patnor1011

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

moonage wrote: »

By law is the shop/bus/train employee entitled to ask questions to determine if someone falls under an exemption?

The person stating "I am mask exempt" might suffice (legally), with no further explanation required.

With a fine of up to €2,500/up to 6 months imprisonment for non-compliance, the legal situation should be made absolutely clear.

Should be but can not be due to multitude other factors which can result from possible enforcement. Data protection, medical records are considered confidential, possible discrimination issues if someone try to stop you....

Whole debate goes into extreme stuff. We simply have to accept that while majority of people will wear them, some people will not due to health or mental isssue. And when peple start accepting this there willbe no need to speculate if the guards needs to be called or what fine to give them. If you have some issue with people without mask then avoid them. There is not that many of them anyway.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Graham wrote: »

There are plenty of exceptions in the law on mental/health grounds that require validation, what makes you think this one is different?

Again, a link to the relevant legislation would be good.

Unless you're just guessing of course.

I literally quoted it word for word in my post.

The legislation has been available for ages now, if you haven’t read it I don’t even know why you’re commenting on this thread.

Google it.

Graham

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I literally quoted it word for word in my post.

Jesus Christ

You quoted 'reasonable excuses' nothing more.

Mental illness is a 'reasonable excuse' for killing someone. Do we just take someone's word for it?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Graham wrote: »

You quoted 'reasonable excuses' nothing more.

Mental illness is a 'reasonable excuse' for killing someone. Do we just take someone's word for it?

.

- Cannot wear a face covering because of a physical or mental illness or a disability, or because it would cause you severe distress.

Graham

You can keep repeating it but it still doesn't say what you suggest it says.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Graham wrote: »

You can keep repeating it but it still doesn't say what you suggest it says.

So you think people have to explain to bus drivers and shopkeepers what their medical history is in order to get on a bus or go into a shop?

Lol

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Notice the word “OR”.

It has nothing to do with the first part.

joeguevara

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Notice the word “OR”.

It has nothing to do with the first part.

I’m going to agree with you on this point. As I said previously if it was explained to the bus driver that wearing a mask causes you stress then that would satisfy the exemption.

I had a look at some case law and guidance on definition of disability under equality law and social anxiety comes under the definition. It would be a brave driver to refuse to accept it. Now, if they did there is an arguable case for discrimination. If there is a diagnosis of social anxiety, then damages may follow.

Now one thing that is different from other disabilities is that an infection can be transmitted possibly due to the exemption. If there was not a safe place for this person or protection of others as not enough space, the driver could request that they wait for another bus. For instance if there was no safe place for a wheelchair on a bus, they can organise the next one. Not a refusal on disability but not safe to enter.

Quantum Erasure

https://twitter.com/rachel/status/1302226616991526912