Masks

stockshares

Two doctors gave different points of view on Sean O Rourke's Rte show just now(didn't catch their names). People might be able to find it on the player later.

One doctor basically said they are useful but because so many don't use them correctly they have the opposite effect.

The other Doctor advocates using them and says they are vital for people travelling because they infect others when getting on/off public transport. This doctor was interviewed by Maeve Sheahan in the Sunday Indo.

Wibbs

Yes: other

Good Christ almighty, what is it with these HSE mouthpiece muppets? Do they not have Google? You can find evidence based research in moments with a quick search. Never mind the over a century of research into the efficacy of masks in clinical settings. And before they come back with the "perfect use/training" ballsology, correct hand washing is also used in clinical settings and you can be sure the average bod on the street isn't following the medically trained washing method and yet they heartily recommend that and even have easy to understand training instruction(wash for twenty seconds/sing to happy birthdays to yourself). They recommend coughing into tissues, or the crook of the arm if none available, yet wearing a tissue literally attached to your face is of no value?

I mean look at this video of another one of these HSE guys who is antimask no matter what(until the WHO tell them things have magically changed).

HSE Professor - Living in same house as a Coronavirus 'close contact'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmKfS2TkrSo

Asymptomatic spread is of low risk. If you're living with a coronavirus close contact and they're not displaying symptoms, you should live your life as normal. Yeah. He said that. Unreal. On the 5th of March, a goodly while after asymptomatic spread was recognised as a risk in both China and Italy and Korea and the medical literature was looking at a German "superspreader" the week before he gave that above talk. Never mind that this same "expert" in the above video describes the symptoms of "runny nose and sore throat", when within a week of the Chinese reports and subsequent clinical experience over months, and in the media for anyone to read, runny nose was one of the least common symptoms and sore throat wasn't far behind it. A list of bad advice wrapped up in under two minutes of video. You couldn't make this up...

I'd love some other explanation to be found other than either incompetence or idiocy, but regardless it's high time we ignore clearly erroneous advice from these so called "experts", because people will die if we continue to. They surely have already.

runswithascript

Yes: other

Bob24 wrote: »

Not sure about what "2-Way vents" implies.

On regular FFP2/FFP3 masks with vents, the vent is only for exhaustion

I expect it means it filters exhaustion unlike a lot of other masks that do not, as a mask with all of those filters but using just the vent instead makes no sense, unless there is a switch or something that allows bypassing the filters...

They probably will not arrive before I have to go into hospital and I will end up making one, but I am going to order now so I have the option.

I agree with the government calling on the general public not wearing masks, at least while there is a shortage, and instead saving them for medical personnel but they should make clear this is the only reason the public are not being asked to wear them.

On the other hand, if you are someone at high enough risk to be cocooning like me, living with someone else cocooning, and having to visit hospital for something essential - fcuk that, to anyone who tells me I should not be wearing a mask and that they do not protect the wearer, I say, as has already been said here, if they offer no protection to the wearer why do medical personnel treating the infected wear them. I will be wearing a mask going into hospital, and probably old safety goggles from my toolbox.

Wibbs

Yes: other

stockshares wrote: »

One doctor basically said they are useful but because so many don't use them correctly they have the opposite effect.

Aye SS, but so many don't hand wash or socially distance correctly either, do they advise we should we stop doing that too?

I'm beginning to think that this original and understandable idea of not rolling out masks in public places to preserve supply of PPE for health workers is so dug in now that logic is going out the window, and will until the WHO come out and suggest it. Then that resistance will "magically" vanish.

Bob24

stockshares wrote: »

One doctor basically said they are useful but because so many don't use them correctly they have the opposite effect.

I indeed see people wearing masks only covering their mouth (not their nose) which should be obvious it is wrong.

But having said that, I think the argument to say "people don't use them properly" is very poor.

If tomorrow an explanation on how to fit them was shared in every media and tutorials wear displayed in the shops which are open (they already have information on social distancing), a vast majority of people people would quickly start doing it properly.

So really this is a non-issue if you have the slightest will to address it.

iamwhoiam

Bob24 wrote: »

I indeed see people wearing masks only covering their mouth (not their nose) which should be obvious it is wrong.

But having said that, I think the argument to say "people don't use them properly" is very poor.

If tomorrow an explanations on how to fit them was shared on every media and tutorial posted in the shops which are open, a vast majority of people people would quickly start doing it properly.

So really this is a non-issue if you have the slightest will to address it.

Exactly , Instead of telling us they can be a risk of not used properly they should show us HOW to use them and how to avoid the risk

Bob24

runswithascript wrote: »

I expect it means it filters exhaustion unlike a lot of other masks that do not, as a mask with all of those filters but using just the vent instead makes no sense, unless there is a switch or something that allows bypassing the filters...

Quite possibly, but then their wording is very poor ... 2-way is pretty clear in what it means.

stockshares

Wibbs wrote: »

Aye SS, but so many don't hand wash or socially distance correctly either, do they advise we should we stop doing that too?

I'm beginning to think that this original and understandable idea of not rolling out masks in public places to preserve supply of PPE for health workers is so dug in now that logic is going out the window, and will until the WHO come out and suggest it. Then that resistance will "magically" vanish.

If they do advocate wearing them like NY will we be able to get enough supply. It's very unlikely

Have you found a good example of how to use a scarf or t shirt properly . I think these are going to be our only options in the a few weeks.

Seanergy

Yes: valved

snoopboggybog wrote: »

Seen some good posts on facebook making them out of tinfoil and cling film and one air hole which seems to work with cloth.

They actually look pretty good

Sorry I don't use that platform, Interested to see if you share some screen shots. Always useful to know how to make different masks from different materials.

Bob24

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Exactly , Instead of telling us they can be a risk of not used properly they should show us HOW to use them and how to avoid the risk

I have actually seen a government official (not in Ireland) who was told this exact thing at a press conference, and who answered that "it requires technical skill" and only trained professional can use them properly; so I think this is the answer you might get from some officials here if you challenged them.

But we of course all know it is BS and a 1 minute video tutorial can ensure someone knows how to fit it properly.

Edit: and to name the particular exemple I had in mind: https://www.causeur.fr/sibeth-ndiaye-masques-coronavirus-174315
The French government spokeswoman's (stupid) answer when challenged about why masks were not recommended: "You know what? I don't know it to use a mask. I could say: I am a minister and I am wearing a mask, but in fact would wouldn't know how to use it. Because using a mask involves precise technical skills".

Wibbs

Yes: other

The Czech Republic were able to ramp up homemade production of basic masks in short order through grass roots, social media and government information. They had to convince their government too, but at least they had enough medical and disease experts on their side. In small country Ireland how many of our experts are going to stick their hands up and go against the HSE? Bloody few to none I imagine. I mean the guy in that video above gave inaccurate data that even the WHO even then would have said was inaccurate and did anyone call him on it?

Wibbs

Yes: other

Bob24 wrote: »

I have actually seen a government official (not in Ireland) who was told this exact thing at a press conference, and who answered that "it requires technical skill" and only trained professional can use them properly; so I think this is the answer you might get from some officials here if you challenged them.

But we of course all know it is BS and a 1 minute video tutorial can ensure someone knows how to fit it properly.

+1. For a homemade cotton type?

Put it on every time you leave the house. Cover your nose and mouth. Wash your hands before putting it on and after you take it off. Only touch your mask by the straps, never at the front. Wash it in hot water to clean.

Job done. And I don't write instructionals. Actually I know a chap, a mate of mine and here on Boards that is qualified in writing instructional manuals. He'd defo come up with a better and shorter set of instructions.

Bob24

Wibbs wrote: »

+1. For a homemade cotton type?

Put it on every time you leave the house. Cover your nose and mouth. Wash your hands before putting it on and after you take it off. Only touch your mask by the straps, never at the front. Wash it in hot water to clean.

Job done. And I don't write instructionals. Actually I know a chap, a mate of mine and here on Boards that is qualified in writing instructional manuals. He'd defo come up with a better and shorter set of instructions.

Yep - your summary should be understandable for most of us non-professional idiots :-)

And to add to my previous post - the government official I was referring to (I edited and added the details) got quite strong backlash after giving that answer. So luckily the people and the media are not yet complete fools!

BrianD3

stockshares wrote: »

Two doctors gave different points of view on Sean O Rourke's Rte show just now(didn't catch their names). People might be able to find it on the player later.

One doctor basically said they are useful but because so many don't use them correctly they have the opposite effect.

The other Doctor advocates using them and says they are vital for people travelling because they infect others when getting on/off public transport. This doctor was interviewed by Maeve Sheahan in the Sunday Indo.

Bill Tormey was the professor who is pro mask, I didn't catch who the other fella was.

The longer we dilly dally on this, the longer it will take us to get back to a semblance of normality. Going forward, mask wearing may well have to become part of normality while shopping, working, using public transport etc. This would make very little difference to people's lives and would cost fcuk all while also reducing the number of sick days due to normal colds and flus. Of course it would be in conjunction with other measures. Also, people won't wear masks in every situation e.g. while down the pub trying to score but that culture could be dying anyway.

Alternatively, we can repeat the mantra that masks don't help as people won't use them correctly, don't advise people how to use them correctly and meanwhile take the "safe" approach of locking down the country for months or years.

Are Cormican and co. failing to see the bigger picture here. There's no talk of public servants not being paid or having their salaries cut. Not yet anyway.. The threat of this could give some people a bit more perspective.

I work in the public service myself and know the type of mentality - cover your ass, follow the party line, stick rigidly to what a "higher authority" tells you, don't offer constructive solutions, don't look at the bigger picture or think for yourself. Jobsworth mentality.

khalessi

Yes: surgical

Speaking as a trained professional,

I got training at 19 and if i recall correctly I was handed a mask and told to tie it tightly at the back, 2 strings at top and 2 strings at bottom of mask after washing my hands. ON removal use strings, lift over head and dispose in bin and remove gloves and wash hands.

I lost sleep over the complexity of above (not)
That was for the wards being in theatre was more complex but uneccessary for todays streetwear

khalessi

Yes: surgical

When I go out to shops here now.

I wear glasses and slip mask on when in car, it has elastic on it so no tying. I pinch the metal clip at the nose tightly and know it is fine when there is no steam on my glasses. I put a snood over mask and get out of car, put on gloves, and off i go more or less.

Wibbs

Yes: other

BrianD3 wrote: »

Are Cormican and co. failing to see the bigger picture here. There's no talk of public servants not being paid or having their salaries cut. Not yet anyway.. The threat of this could give some people a bit more perspective.

I work in the public service myself and know the type of mentality - cover your ass, follow the party line, stick rigidly to what a "higher authority" tells you, don't offer constructive solutions, don't look at the bigger picture or think for yourself. Jobsworth mentality.

You've pretty much put into words my feeling on why this is going on. The cliche old style civil service "management" mentality.

iamwhoiam

Wibbs wrote: »

+1. For a homemade cotton type?

Put it on every time you leave the house. Cover your nose and mouth. Wash your hands before putting it on and after you take it off. Only touch your mask by the straps, never at the front. Wash it in hot water to clean.

Job done. And I don't write instructionals. Actually I know a chap, a mate of mine and here on Boards that is qualified in writing instructional manuals. He'd defo come up with a better and shorter set of instructions.

Exactly . I do all that , hang it out on the line to dry then into a zip lock bag with my name on it . Bag left slightly open so its not sitting in a damp environment

jackofalltrades

Yes: other

Wibbs wrote: »

I'm beginning to think that this original and understandable idea of not rolling out masks in public places to preserve supply of PPE for health workers is so dug in now that logic is going out the window, and will until the WHO come out and suggest it. Then that resistance will "magically" vanish.

This is exactly what they're waiting for.
If they change their mind so late in the game, after constantly recommending against it they're going to look bad in the eyes of the public.
And irrelevant to the people that have been wearing maks for weeks now.
Bests just sit tight, wait for the WHO to change their mind and then just parrot the advice.

Then if it's brought up in future the can say they were following the best advice at the time, arse covered, job done.
While I think the government has done a good enough job until now, I worry about their lack of creativity for dealing with this issue.

Seanergy

Yes: valved

Bob24 wrote: »

If tomorrow an explanation on how to fit them was shared in every media and tutorials wear displayed in the shops which are open (they already have information on social distancing), a vast majority of people people would quickly start doing it properly.

So really this is a non-issue if you have the slightest will to address it.

Will tommorrow ever come?

If one of us devised a print out surely then we all could the bring print out to the shop we fequent and ask for it to be displayed on the glass outside where people are queing! Do we have the will to address it?

fr336

Yes: surgical

Just got two of these delivered:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/3M-8822-Valved-Dust-Respirator/dp/B000Q8V26C

How much cleaning do they need? Would anti bacterial wipes be sufficient? Wibbs??

Wibbs

Yes: other

Seanergy wrote: »

Will tommorrow ever come?

If one of us devised a print out surely then we all could the bring print out to the shop we fequent and ask for it to be displayed on the glass outside where people are queing! Do we have the will to address it?

I dunno if it would have much impact S. *My personal opinion* People are herd creatures and some societies are more herdlike than others and Ireland is one of them. We're very tuned to authority compared to say the Latin cultures. The "rebel Irish" notion only plays out overseas(and boy does it play out), but here, no. I fear that unless this comes from the top down the vast majority will quite simply ignore it.

At this stage the most I'd be hoping for before that authority finally wakes the hell up is that people who are willing to hear an alternative, one that has good bloody reasons and science behind it, hear it and protect them, their family and any friends they can convince to go with them. And that more homemade masks and the like are made for when the HSE finally pulls its idiot finger out.

Wibbs

Yes: other

fr336 wrote: »

Just got two of these delivered:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/3M-8822-Valved-Dust-Respirator/dp/B000Q8V26C

How much cleaning do they need? Would anti bacterial wipes be sufficient? Wibbs??

I'd be wary of wetting them F. Some have suggested heating in an oven? NOT microwave. Personally I'd just wear them day about.

Bob24

fr336 wrote: »

Just got two of these delivered:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/3M-8822-Valved-Dust-Respirator/dp/B000Q8V26C

How much cleaning do they need? Would anti bacterial wipes be sufficient? Wibbs??

Good masks.

If it was me I wouldn’t chance cleaning them. I’d just put them away in a drawer or plastic bag after use and not open it again for a few days; and then they can be reused.

fr336

Yes: surgical

Wibbs wrote: »

I'd be wary of wetting them F. Some have suggested heating in an oven? NOT microwave. Personally I'd just wear them day about.

Thanks as ever Wibbs did you mean wear a different one each day? I'm sure the oven thing is correct but I can't help imagining my masks it took so long to get being burnt to a crisp lol

Bob24

fr336 wrote: »

Thanks as ever Wibbs did you mean wear a different one each day? I'm sure the oven thing is correct but I can't help imagining my masks it took so long to get being burnt to a crisp lol

Plus even if the mask itself can survive this treatment, what’s the story with the elastic straps? :-s

I am clueless about this thing and maybe I am missing something here ... but I can see how they’d survive and retain their elasticity.

Wibbs

Yes: other

Exactly F, a different one each day.

fr336

Yes: surgical

Wibbs wrote: »

Exactly F, a different one each day.

Well I value your word more than the British government so that sounds sensible!

fr336

Yes: surgical

fr336 wrote: »

Just got two of these delivered:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/3M-8822-Valved-Dust-Respirator/dp/B000Q8V26C

How much cleaning do they need? Would anti bacterial wipes be sufficient? Wibbs??

Well lads I got them and I can barely breathe in them. Couldn't go around a shop like this. Have I been conned or am I missing something with the ventilation bit?

Sam Hain

No: other

fr336 wrote: »

Well lads I got them and I can barely breathe in them. Couldn't go around a shop like this. Have I been conned or am I missing something with the ventilation bit?

How much did they cost and where did they come from?