Masks

Cantona's Collars

khalessi wrote: »

All those in the GIFs are breaking the golden rule...... don't touch your face.

iamwhoiam

I wear a cotton mask we made ourselves . It absolutely doesn’t make me forget the other vital steps . In fact the mask on my face makes me very aware of Covid and that I need to be aware . It makes me think of being careful with hand washing and not touching etc

JoChervil

Conclusion from watching the above GIF:

Don't do anything embarrassing in public. It can save lives...

Seanergy

Yes: valved

Harry Palmr wrote: »

WHO still disagrees

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/no-need-for-healthy-to-wear-face-masks-says-who-after-review

I do, strongly, oh sorry thought you were asking a question.

Yesterday's headline MASK'S ARE NO SILVER BULLET was the beginning of them changing their stance, that was the shot fired. It's all a public relations game now, it might be friday, or a month from friday, it can't be never, the shots been fired, you don't put the word silver bullet into a headline around the world otherwise. And unfortunaetly our HSE are a loyal mouthpiece to this lot.

Seanergy

Yes: valved

I was just getting my evening walk in and it just dawned on me how retarded the advice actually is.

Your asked to discard used tissue but it's okay to keep walking around with the sleeves on your jumper! Your not asked to rip a sleeve off and discard of it!

It's the equivelent of asking people to stick tissues that they have coughed and sneezed into onto their arms.

But it''s actually worse, because at least with the tissue on your arm it might notify you not to touch it, no alarm is going to go off it you touch your sleeve at some stage afterwards.

YFlyer

Coming up shortly on RTE news. Using 3D printers to make face shields.

Must be lower tech means to make these face shields.

Bob24

Seanergy wrote: »

I was just getting my evening walk in and it just dawned on me how retarded the advice actually is.

I like the way they felt inclined to print "Ireland is operating a delay strategy in line with WHO and ECDC advice".

Basically the way I read it is: we are just following someone else's advice, don't hold us responsable for anything :-)

Seanergy

Yes: valved

Bob24 wrote: »

"Ireland is operating a delay strategy in line with WHO and ECDC advice".

Basically the way I read it is: we are just following someone else's advice, don't hold us responsable for anything :-)

Exactly, it's printed right infront of our faces. I read it as our strategy is to delay until we get advice, in other words we aren't doing any thinking, we will do what were told by the u know WHO

S.M.B.

Seanergy wrote: »

I was just getting my evening walk in and it just dawned on me how retarded the advice actually is.

Your asked to discard used tissue but it's okay to keep walking around with the sleeves on your jumper! Your not asked to rip a sleeve off and discard of it!

It's the equivelent of asking people to stick tissues that they have coughed and sneezed into onto their arms.

But it''s actually worse, because at least with the tissue on your arm it might notify you not to touch it, no alarm is going to go off it you touch your sleeve at some stage afterwards.

In fairness that's an attempt to educate all those who willfully sneeze and cough without covering their mouth or nose in any way at all. I know here in the UK the baseline when it comes to personal hygiene is shockingly low. Not too sure how different things are in Ireland these days.

No reason why they can't change those basic guidelines as the general public wrap their heads around everything.

Outlaw Pete

Even if all the medical professionals and politicians came out and told everyone that they need to wear masks when in public (or around the immunosuppressed) where would people get them? You'd find the Holy Grail quicker than you'd source FFP2/3 masks right now and they know this, so surely their comments surrounding them are made with this firmly in mind.

Not excusing their unprofessionalism, more trying to explain it, to myself as much as anyone, as the alternative makes even less sense.

I see some companies trying to cash in on the lack of masks also, like Gearbest for example, who have ads up advertising what are (as sure as sugar is sweet) undoubtedly fake N95 masks:

Seanergy

Yes: valved

S.M.B. wrote: »

In fairness that's an attempt to educate all those who willfully sneeze and cough without covering their mouth or nose in any way at all. I know here in the UK.......

No reason why they can't change those basic guidelines as the general public wrap their heads around everything.

In Fairness to WHO?

I have made an extremly valid point, cough into your sleeve and wear it all day and carry it around with you exposing others.

I high lighted a risk, created by instructions on how to prevent, made by the WHO, and copied by the HSE. This is serious.

It's not the general public that need to do the head wrapping in this instance.

No reason why I shouldn't change those basic guidelines, in fairness

S.M.B.

Seanergy wrote: »

cough into your sleeve and wear it all day and carry it around with you exposing others.

Is better than coughing openly in a crowded space which is very much acceptable behaviour to begin with.

I am not saying that education and advice should move up a few notches but I also don't think that the original advice was/is "retarded".

Away With The Fairies

Yes: valved

Doctor on Ireland am thinks we should all be wearing masks. Made a great point, why shut down the country and not have measures to reduce the spread. Said masks catches the respiratory droplets which is how it's spread.

stephenjmcd

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Doctor on Ireland am thinks we should all be wearing masks. Made a great point, why shut down the country and not have measures to reduce the spread. Said masks catches the respiratory droplets which is how it's spread.

And the CMO said on rte yesterday evening a categorical no to the question of should the general public be wearing face masks, only if advised by a GP. So doesn't look like they'll be bringing it in as advisable here. Likewise he gave good reasons not to wear one.

Everyone has their own opinion on it really, up to each person to decide for themselves. Personally I'm happy to go with whatever the current gov and HSE advice is. Others may see fit to wear a mask, really is up to yourself.

Wibbs

Yes: other

Yep A, it's blindingly obvious that masks along with distancing and hand hygiene are another weapon in the fight against the spread of this virus, another way to flatten the curve. Unfortunately the HSE are taking their lead from the WHO and the ECDC, unalloyed with independent thought. They're dug in like ticks on the matter. At this stage it feels as much like avoiding any blame if that advice proves below par(which it has on a few occasions since this crisis kicked off). They can just point to the WHO and the ECDC and say "not our fault, we were only following orders the best practices of the WHO/ECDC". Old style Irish civil service "thinking".

Away With The Fairies

Yes: valved

The HSE website is a joke
https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/protect-yourself.html

Starts of with this sh!t
"To protect yourself and others from coronavirus (COVID-19), think about how the virus is spread.

Coronavirus is spread in sneeze or cough droplets. To infect you, it has to get from an infected person's nose or mouth into your eyes, nose or mouth. This can be direct or indirect (on hands, objects, surfaces).

Keep this in mind. It will help you remember all the things you need to do to protect yourself and others from the virus."

Bottom of page about masks
"Wearing a mask is unlikely to be of any benefit if you are not sick."

To the clowns in the HSE, just think about how this is spread. It can be spread by asymptomatic people so yes face masks are not just for sick people. Asking us to think about how it's spread and they can't think for themselves.

Away With The Fairies

Yes: valved

How does the American CDC recommend the use of cloth face masks but the European CDC says face masks are not effective?

I'm so mad about the face mask issue here.

Wibbs

Yes: other

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Likewise he gave good reasons not to wear one.

Fallacious reasons, that fly in the face of basic logic. Imperfect use the usual one. Are people currently observing perfect use in hand washing, distancing, respiratory health? No. It didn't stop them rolling them out as risk reducers.

Everyone has their own opinion on it really, up to each person to decide for themselves. Personally I'm happy to go with whatever the current gov and HSE advice is. Others may see fit to wear a mask, really is up to yourself.

Not really. People are herd creatures and will en masse follow authority. Whether that be the authority of leaders or the authority of the group.

On this particular subject we saw that in the Czech Republic. The leadership was against masks, but a grassroots movement was for them, backed up by a few experts in the field that were willing to go against the leadership advice and they changed things. Then again, clearly a different culture to here. Their authorities locked down very quickly and went against the grain of wider WHO recommendations, brought in border control, contact tracing and lockdown and then when they saw the value in it, blanket mask use in public places.

And their numbers look a lot better than ours. They have 91 deaths out of a population of 10 million. With half their population we have twice the number of deaths.

railer201

Yes: valved

Snippet on Euronews atm showing how to make simple face masks - should repeat during the day. There seems to be a growing dynamic across the wider media in favour of face masks.

stephenjmcd

Wibbs wrote: »

Fallacious reasons, that fly in the face of basic logic. Imperfect use the usual one. Are people currently observing perfect use in hand washing, distancing, respiratory health? No. It didn't stop them rolling them out as risk reducers.

Not really. People are herd creatures and will en masse follow authority. Whether that be the authority of leaders or the authority of the group.

On this particular subject we saw that in the Czech Republic. The leadership was against masks, but a grassroots movement was for them, backed up by a few experts in the field that were willing to go against the leadership advice and they changed things. Then again, clearly a different culture to here. Their authorities locked down very quickly and went against the grain of wider WHO recommendations, brought in border control, contact tracing and lockdown and then when they saw the value in it, blanket mask use in public places.

And their numbers look a lot better than ours. They have 91 deaths out of a population of 10 million. With half their population we have twice the number of deaths.

Again you have your own point of view and respect that, do what you think is best for you. I'm happy to follow the official advice at this current time and overall happy with how the HSE and gov agencies have done so far, and that's my opinion

Boggles

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Again you have your own point of view and respect that, do what you think is best for you. I'm happy to follow the official advice at this current time and overall happy with how the HSE and gov agencies have done so far, and that's my opinion

Official advice from the HSE was to go visit your granny in a nursing home not so long ago.

Away With The Fairies

Yes: valved

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Again you have your own point of view and respect that, do what you think is best for you. I'm happy to follow the official advice at this current time and overall happy with how the HSE and gov agencies have done so far, and that's my opinion

Why are you waiting for the HSE to tell you to wear masks?
This is what the CDC in America thinks about the masks.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html

It wasn't that long ago, about a week ago, they too were saying the same thing about masks were useless.

Countries do U-turns on face masks
https://www.thelocal.com/20200405/coronavirus-and-face-masks-how-countries-have-changed-their-advice

Wibbs

Yes: other

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Again you have your own point of view and respect that, do what you think is best for you. I'm happy to follow the official advice at this current time and overall happy with how the HSE and gov agencies have done so far, and that's my opinion

Which kinda proves my point about following authority S. It's not actually your opinion, it's a decision based on the opinion of authority. If later today the HSE and gov agencies said wear masks, your "opinion" would change. You've literally spelled that out.

As for how we've done so far? We have done relatively well, so far, but a large reason for that, our population density has little to do with the HSE and gov agencies. They did do well on closures of schools, pubs and restaurants and to some degree distancing, though patchily and again we were helped by the majority's living arrangements. They didn't and still haven't increased border medical controls and closing down Patrick's Day was an eleventh hour decision, testing is a bit of a farce and let's not forget the ah sure it's grand to visit care homes moment, or a month after it was known to be an issue stating asymptomatic transmission wasn't really a risk.

Now have we done better than the UK? Hell yes, but wisdom comes not from comparing yourself to those who do worse and pat yourself on the back about it, but from comparing yourself to those who do better and emulating them.

Wibbs wrote: »

And their numbers look a lot better than ours. They have 91 deaths out of a population of 10 million. With half their population we have twice the number of deaths.

Oh and on that point above, they have a much higher population density and far more people living in apartments and shared living. Yet we've twice the number of the dead, even with our advantage?

dublin99

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Again you have your own point of view and respect that, do what you think is best for you. I'm happy to follow the official advice at this current time and overall happy with how the HSE and gov agencies have done so far, and that's my opinion

Official advice from the HSE, according to Professor Cormican , as af early March, was that one should live normally if in same house with a contact person, and that one won't shed virus till one gets symptoms!!! At that stage, it was all over international news and people everywhere else had been warned of the asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic spreaders for weeks in other countries!

Kivaro

Yes: valved

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

To the clowns in the HSE, just think about how this is spread. It can be spread by asymptomatic people so yes face masks are not just for sick people. Asking us to think about how it's spread and they can't think for themselves.

You'd have to wonder why the Irish authorities believe that they have it right about the general public not wearing masks; yet many other countries are are doing the opposite.
Watching various news programs from around the world this morning, with some countries now making it obligatory to wear face masks when out going to the shops, pharmacies etc.

Just thinking from on optic/mental-well-being aspect of masks, would you prefer to be dealing with (talking to) a supermarket employee or pharmacist wearing a mask or not?

I can tell you I would much prefer for them to be wearing masks just to stop droplets being transmitted from breath vapor or unintentional spitting that we all do even now and then.
And guess what? I bet the supermarket and pharmacist would prefer if all the customers were wearing masks too ..... for the same reasons.

The Irish government and HSE are wrong on this one.

Bob24

stephenjmcd wrote: »

really is up to yourself.

It actually shouldn’t be an individual decision. Since masks are an efficient way to make a contaminated person less contagious, it really should be a group decision. Like the lockdowns: if only a small percentage of the population does it it is a lot less effective to countain the epidemic.

Boggles

Wibbs wrote: »

They did do well on closures of schools, pubs and restaurants and to some degree distancing, though patchily and again we were helped by the majority's living arrangements. They didn't and still haven't increased border medical controls and closing down Patrick's Day was an eleventh hour decision, testing is a bit of a farce and let's not forget the ah sure it's grand to visit care homes moment, or a month after it was known to be an issue stating asymptomatic transmission wasn't really a risk.

The majority of businesses had decided to close or introduced complete work from home measures before the government acted. Also Paddy's Day was cancelled at council level before the government decided to cancel. Also "No issue" with 10,000 people going to a race meeting in the UK, etc, etc.

The idea the government and HSE are getting this right is farcical. Our testing plan has been a complete and utter failure by any metric and 20% of our PPE would be perfect if we had uoompa loompas on the front line.

It's people and the measures they are implementing as well as business to be fair that are halting the surge.

Basically make a mask and wear it when you are out, it's not like the majority of people don't have the time for a bit of Blue Peter with a T-Shirt.

iamwhoiam

As far masks making you forget the hand washing etc .I can categorically say that having a big cotton mask on my face made me very much remember the situation I was in .It made me far more alert to the hand hygiene and distancing etc .It was an alien piece of equipment that kept me actually on my toes and reminded me to be very aware

Wibbs

Yes: other

iamwhoiam wrote: »

As far masks making you forget the hand washing etc .I can categorically say that having a big cotton mask on my face made me very much remember the situation I was in .It made me far more alert to the hand hygiene and distancing etc .It was an alien piece of equipment that kept me actually on my toes and reminded me to be very aware

Ditto Iam. And more than I thought it would. Now people will differ, but I felt a distinct feeling of difference between inside and outside because of wearing one.

Wibbs

Yes: other

Boggles wrote: »

The majority of businesses had decided to close or introduced complete work from home measures before the government acted. Also Paddy's Day was cancelled at council level before the government decided to cancel. Also "No issue" with 10,000 people going to a race meeting in the UK, etc, etc.

The idea the government and HSE are getting this right is farcical. Our testing plan has been a complete and utter failure by any metric and 20% of our PPE would be perfect if we had uoompa loompas on the front line.

It's people and the measures they are implementing as well as business to be fair that are halting the surge.

Actually B, you're dead right. I was giving a little too much credit to the authorities on this.